AA's Upgauges to Mainline: More to Come?

evank516 · Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:26 pm

So, I've noticed that AA has been upgauging plenty of Eagle routes to mainline, at least on some of the flights. This begs the question as to which other stations could possibly see upgauges in the future? I know there's plenty of DFW flights that are seeing it, and CLT is seeing its fair share too. So I guess I'm seeing everyone's list of which routes you see as possible for upgauges on at least one flight per day? Most of mine are out of CLT since I'm not very familiar with pre-merger AA's network:

CLT-BHM
DFW-BHM (BHM is all Eagle now)
CLT-DAB (Already sees seasonal upgauges for the races, can't imagine a seasonal upgrade for the busy season isn't feasible)
ORD-MCI (Has mainline, but surprised at how little)
ORD-STL (same as ORD-MCI)

Okay, that's all I can think of for now. Let's discuss.

bridge29 · Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:41 pm

I would like to see AA upgauge to at least all two-class aircraft on ORD-MDT, if not mainline. UA currently runs at least 1 mainline on ORD-MDT which goes up to 2 mainline per day during some parts of the year.

evank516 · Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:59 pm

bridge29 wrote:
I would like to see AA upgauge to at least all two-class aircraft on ORD-MDT, if not mainline. UA currently runs at least 1 mainline on ORD-MDT which goes up to 2 mainline per day during some parts of the year.

Do they have mainline on ORD-BUF/SYR/ROC?

airtran737 · Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:01 pm

I think that AA needs to figure out what they want to do with the Midwest, specifically ORD. UA runs 737's and A320's to places like DSM, MSN, and GRR, yet AA throws a 145 at them.

flyfresno · Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:07 pm

FAT-PHX operates one mainline flight seasonally, would be nice to see it go year-round.

Buddys747 · Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:21 pm

bridge29 wrote:
I would like to see AA upgauge to at least all two-class aircraft on ORD-MDT, if not mainline. UA currently runs at least 1 mainline on ORD-MDT which goes up to 2 mainline per day during some parts of the year.

UA is back to regional it looks for the summer, again. They have been showing no love for Harrisburg lately. There was two Mainlines usually most of the year. At least last year was E175’s.
But I agree the morning AA flight would be nice to be mainline on an A319. I think two years ago Republic was operating E175s. And throw in MDT-DFW again

chrisnh · Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:22 pm

If MHT weren’t so close to BOS I could see something happening. On a trial basis they’ve tried a A319 to CLT though

Fex180 · Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:35 pm

AA does seasonal PHL-PWM. Could easily see that going year round. Could also add a 3rd daily rt CLT-PWM with a 319.

SyracuseAvGeek · Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:47 pm

evank516 wrote:
bridge29 wrote:
I would like to see AA upgauge to at least all two-class aircraft on ORD-MDT, if not mainline. UA currently runs at least 1 mainline on ORD-MDT which goes up to 2 mainline per day during some parts of the year.

Do they have mainline on ORD-BUF/SYR/ROC?

No they don't. If I had to guess I would say BUF would get it first, then maybe ALB and ROC. Most likely not SYR, SYR can't even support 1x daily with United like ALB, BUF, and ROC do. UNITED did 1x daily mainline last summer to SYR but this summer it's only on on Sunday's in which means it probably didn't do well.

SyracuseAvGeek · Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:47 pm

GRR-DFW was just upgraded from E175 to MD80

jplatts · Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:53 pm

AA could upgauge CVG-ORD, CVG-CLT, CVG-PHL, CMH-ORD, CMH-CLT, CMH-PHL, CLE-ORD, and SDF-CLT to mainline.

Bobloblaw · Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:00 pm

airtran737 wrote:
I think that AA needs to figure out what they want to do with the Midwest, specifically ORD. UA runs 737's and A320's to places like DSM, MSN, and GRR, yet AA throws a 145 at them.

Not true at all. First of all UA doesnt have every flight a mainline in those markets and secondly not all AA flights are on 50 seaters. In every single one of those markets some UA flights are on CRJs and AA has some flights on E175s. Dont oversimplify. In fact the gap in product between UA and AA out of ORD is smaller today than since the the early 1990s when AA had F100s flying out of commuter slots in ORD.

nomorerjs · Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:29 pm

AA has done quite a bit of upgauging at ORD (ABQ, DEN, ELP, EWR, SAT...). The 100 to 120 seat jet is missing.

Midwestindy · Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:34 pm

AA recently upgraded some IND/BNA-ORD flights to the 738, before both were all RJ.

brooklynchris13 · Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:54 pm

The evening CLT to CMH and morning CMH to CLT should be at least a 319. The flight is always full, as are almost all of the other 6am-ish AA flights on AA. This leaves no slack in the event of a issue, such as an MD80 to DFW having some sort of last minute fuse issue, oil leak, gasket rupture, etc. (I have experienced this more than a few times). Would also be nice to get a mainline or two to ORD, but all E175s would be an improvement over the CR7/occasional E145 schedule.

lat41 · Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:22 pm

Buddys747 wrote:
bridge29 wrote:
I would like to see AA upgauge to at least all two-class aircraft on ORD-MDT, if not mainline. UA currently runs at least 1 mainline on ORD-MDT which goes up to 2 mainline per day during some parts of the year.

UA is back to regional it looks for the summer, again. They have been showing no love for Harrisburg lately. There was two Mainlines usually most of the year. At least last year was E175’s.
But I agree the morning AA flight would be nice to be mainline on an A319. I think two years ago Republic was operating E175s. And throw in MDT-DFW again

How long has Harrisburg DFW n/s been gone and was there a reason given for stopping it? Harder in some cases to get a flight back that was dropped than a new start up.

ritoitalia · Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:23 pm

American is upgauging the late evening ron flight from Charlotte to Melbourne, FL and the first morning flight to Charlotte from a PSA CRJ-700 or -900 to an A319.

cheapgreek · Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:23 pm

Hope some of the upgauging results in CRJ-700's becoming available to replace some or all of the CRJ-200's on the HVN-PHL flights. Many flights are sold out and many are close to capacity. The 200's take a weight restriction whereas the 700"s don't.

ADrum23 · Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:25 pm

If they were smart, they'd upgauge most of their DFW flights to mainline like DL did in ATL.

Roots1 · Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:37 pm

CLT-ROC. Not sure why AA pulled mainline completely out of Rochester...

jb1087xna · Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:56 am

XNA-DFW is getting one A319 rotated through this summer on what is normally an all-RJ route.

Buddys747 · Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:48 am

lat41 wrote:
Buddys747 wrote:
bridge29 wrote:
I would like to see AA upgauge to at least all two-class aircraft on ORD-MDT, if not mainline. UA currently runs at least 1 mainline on ORD-MDT which goes up to 2 mainline per day during some parts of the year.

UA is back to regional it looks for the summer, again. They have been showing no love for Harrisburg lately. There was two Mainlines usually most of the year. At least last year was E175’s.
But I agree the morning AA flight would be nice to be mainline on an A319. I think two years ago Republic was operating E175s. And throw in MDT-DFW again

How long has Harrisburg DFW n/s been gone and was there a reason given for stopping it? Harder in some cases to get a flight back that was dropped than a new start up.

It was discontinued in November 2008 along with several other routes/stations. High fuel costs on regional jet was reason given, and lack of aircraft, at the time they only had 25 CR7’s. Some DFW routes have since returned.

us330 · Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:53 am

jb1087xna wrote:
XNA-DFW is getting one A319 rotated through this summer on what is normally an all-RJ route.

XNA from DFW has had mainline off and on. At one point, I believe they actually had two daily MD80s.

DeltaXNA · Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:54 am

I think CID, MSN, TYS, JAN, BTR, GSO, GPT, HSV, BHM, and MAF could see mainline in the future from DFW and some possibly from CLT as well.

jb1087xna · Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:09 am

us330 wrote:
jb1087xna wrote:
XNA-DFW is getting one A319 rotated through this summer on what is normally an all-RJ route.

XNA from DFW has had mainline off and on. At one point, I believe they actually had two daily MD80s.

From what I can recall it's been years since anything has been regularly scheduled.

freakyrat · Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:10 am

Even though service from DFW and CLT to SBN was just started with two class CRJ700's I believe we could see a few upgrades on Notre Dame Football weekends as all flights now have little or no seats left especially from and to DFW.

mhkansan · Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:34 am

freakyrat wrote:
Even though service from DFW and CLT to SBN was just started with two class CRJ700's I believe we could see a few upgrades on Notre Dame Football weekends as all flights now have little or no seats left especially from and to DFW.

SBN is a new market and will not get mainline unless it is scheduled. Also I'm not sure what days you're looking at but there is plenty of availability ex-SBN on AA.

blink182 · Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:49 am

Fex180 wrote:
AA does seasonal PHL-PWM. Could easily see that going year round. Could also add a 3rd daily rt CLT-PWM with a 319.

Shocking to me that the PHL hub can only PWM as a seasonal route as I thought this might be able to sustain an A319 year round. US I believe operated this year round and possibly at multiple frequencies.

f18raider · Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:22 am

jb1087xna wrote:
XNA-DFW is getting one A319 rotated through this summer on what is normally an all-RJ route.

Same at LBB

freakyrat · Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:27 am

mhkansan wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
Even though service from DFW and CLT to SBN was just started with two class CRJ700's I believe we could see a few upgrades on Notre Dame Football weekends as all flights now have little or no seats left especially from and to DFW.

SBN is a new market and will not get mainline unless it is scheduled. Also I'm not sure what days you're looking at but there is plenty of availability ex-SBN on AA.

I was just saying some of the Notre Dame Football home weekends have full flights from and to DFW. mainly Friday from DFW and Sunday To DFW. A minor upgrade to a CRJ900 or an E175 could be in the offering for the home opener against Michigan on Sept 1st and the Stanford game on Sept 29th. A lot of ND alumni live and work in the DFW area and I'm sure AA is already looking at capacity for those weekends to see if they need to adjust it.

mhkansan · Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:53 am

freakyrat wrote:
mhkansan wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
Even though service from DFW and CLT to SBN was just started with two class CRJ700's I believe we could see a few upgrades on Notre Dame Football weekends as all flights now have little or no seats left especially from and to DFW.

SBN is a new market and will not get mainline unless it is scheduled. Also I'm not sure what days you're looking at but there is plenty of availability ex-SBN on AA.

I was just saying some of the Notre Dame Football home weekends have full flights from and to DFW. mainly Friday from DFW and Sunday To DFW. A minor upgrade to a CRJ900 or an E175 could be in the offering for the home opener against Michigan on Sept 1st and the Stanford game on Sept 29th. A lot of ND alumni live and work in the DFW area and I'm sure AA is already looking at capacity for those weekends to see if they need to adjust it.

AA rarely does day-of-week swaps for football games. Like in all of the college markets, tickets will simply be more expensive on these days. If the flight performs well, I could see SBN getting an additional frequency or larger gauge but I don't count on it. SBN is very close to a lot of other markets with competitive DFW service.

Delta is the only airline I've seen that frequently upgauges like you're suggesting.

chepos · Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:10 am

blink182 wrote:
Fex180 wrote:
AA does seasonal PHL-PWM. Could easily see that going year round. Could also add a 3rd daily rt CLT-PWM with a 319.

Shocking to me that the PHL hub can only PWM as a seasonal route as I thought this might be able to sustain an A319 year round. US I believe operated this year round and possibly at multiple frequencies.

PHL PWM is year round, multiple frequencies on reagional jets. It sees mainline seasonally, As of right now they have 2 mainline rotations on the route with the 190.

usflyer msp · Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:16 am

AA can only do a limited amount of upguaging due to a lack of mainline gates at ORD and CLT. Despite CLT being a megahub, AA has less than 50 mainline gates and many of them have size restrictions that make anything larger than A320 problematic.

PA12 · Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:18 am

What are they doing at MFE,?
Now looks like it’s all RJs.
Was up to 5 daily Md80’s.

ctrabs0114 · Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:52 am

mhkansan wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
mhkansan wrote:
SBN is a new market and will not get mainline unless it is scheduled. Also I'm not sure what days you're looking at but there is plenty of availability ex-SBN on AA.

I was just saying some of the Notre Dame Football home weekends have full flights from and to DFW. mainly Friday from DFW and Sunday To DFW. A minor upgrade to a CRJ900 or an E175 could be in the offering for the home opener against Michigan on Sept 1st and the Stanford game on Sept 29th. A lot of ND alumni live and work in the DFW area and I'm sure AA is already looking at capacity for those weekends to see if they need to adjust it.

AA rarely does day-of-week swaps for football games. Like in all of the college markets, tickets will simply be more expensive on these days. If the flight performs well, I could see SBN getting an additional frequency or larger gauge but I don't count on it. SBN is very close to a lot of other markets with competitive DFW service.

Not to mention many more flight options between AA hubs DFW and ORD, the latter of which is two hours west of SBN.

GSP psgr · Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:02 am

[photoid][/photoid]

usflyer msp wrote:
AA can only do a limited amount of upguaging due to a lack of mainline gates at ORD and CLT. Despite CLT being a megahub, AA has less than 50 mainline gates and many of them have size restrictions that make anything larger than A320 problematic.

Aren't they picking up a handful more on the old Concourse A as A North opens?

paulsaz · Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:17 am

PHX-AUS and PHX-SAT are now all mainline, previously were CRJ-900. IAH is now all CRJ-900.

usairways85 · Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:14 am

PHL-AUS, PVD, DTW, BNA, PIT, BDL, RDU, STL have seen recent upgauges for at least the summer if not year round

MIflyer12 · Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:19 am

Has anybody run the fleet math to support the idea that switches to mainline are a broad, systemic thing? In 2017, mainline ASMs grew 0.9%, and total mainline plus regional grew 1.1% - so regional grew faster than mainline. Aren't they even pulling E-140s out of retirement?

packcheer · Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:00 pm

AA just started MD-80's on DFW to CAE. This was previously all E170.

tomaheath · Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:34 pm

MHT has 2 E190s to Philadelphia now.

freakyrat · Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:50 pm

[quote="mhkansan"

AA rarely does day-of-week swaps for football games. Like in all of the college markets, tickets will simply be more expensive on these days. If the flight performs well, I could see SBN getting an additional frequency or larger gauge but I don't count on it. SBN is very close to a lot of other markets with competitive DFW service.

Delta is the only airline I've seen that frequently upgauges like you're suggesting.[/quote]

The tickets on all carriers are more expensive for those weekends. It appears that Delta is starting to experiment upguuaging in the SBN-ATL market which has outgrown the CRJ200. As far as AA goes the CRJ700 is the right aircraft in the market both to DFW and CLT. FWA was recently downguaged from a CRJ900 to a CRJ700 in the DFW market. Delta recently ran a B717 on the late evening ATL-SBN flight and the following morning SBN-MSP flight and both were about 84% full. There were no special events going on at the time and it may have been a reposition flight of some sort.

freakyrat · Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:52 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Has anybody run the fleet math to support the idea that switches to mainline are a broad, systemic thing? In 2017, mainline ASMs grew 0.9%, and total mainline plus regional grew 1.1% - so regional grew faster than mainline. Aren't they even pulling E-140s out of retirement?

They are pulling E140's out of retirement.

washingtonflyer · Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:58 pm

This raises a question as to special event profitability. Airlines have an expectation that their flights be at least a certain percentage full or have fares so high that they cover their costs.

I recognize the appeal of bringing a lot of folks into a city for a special event (SDF for the Kentucky Derby, IND for the Indianapolis 500, DCA/IAD/BWI for presidential inaugurations, etc.), but the flight that is added or "upgauged" to go from DFW-SDF has to turn around 1 hour later and fly SDF-DFW. If a route that historically only had 100 passengers on that flight and, hence, matched to an A-319 is suddenly an A-321 with 181 seats, your costs have gone up significantly. Now I do remember in years past that certain airlines offered "get out of town" fares which tried to fill some of the empty seats for residents living in the "host" city, but I can't imagine that the fares were all that successful. Or, maybe they were?

Runway28L · Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:20 pm

Is it me or have quite a few routes out of CLT lost mainline frequencies amd been replaced by those CRJ9s?

airtran737 · Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:24 pm

Bobloblaw wrote:
airtran737 wrote:
I think that AA needs to figure out what they want to do with the Midwest, specifically ORD. UA runs 737's and A320's to places like DSM, MSN, and GRR, yet AA throws a 145 at them.

Not true at all. First of all UA doesnt have every flight a mainline in those markets and secondly not all AA flights are on 50 seaters. In every single one of those markets some UA flights are on CRJs and AA has some flights on E175s. Dont oversimplify. In fact the gap in product between UA and AA out of ORD is smaller today than since the the early 1990s when AA had F100s flying out of commuter slots in ORD.

I’m aware of what United flies and what AA flies (I’m flying the darn plane), but United throws mainline at these cities for multiple flights a day, and AA uses 50 seaters for most and some CR7’s and 175’s. AA has allowed themselves to be bystanders and give the market away. I can only hope that AA has plans for when they have more space in ORD in the future.

ahj2000 · Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:04 pm

GSP psgr wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]
usflyer msp wrote:
AA can only do a limited amount of upguaging due to a lack of mainline gates at ORD and CLT. Despite CLT being a megahub, AA has less than 50 mainline gates and many of them have size restrictions that make anything larger than A320 problematic.

Aren't they picking up a handful more on the old Concourse A as A North opens?

Yep. My understanding is that AA will receive them a short while after A-North opens.

Bobloblaw · Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:19 pm

airtran737 wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
airtran737 wrote:
I think that AA needs to figure out what they want to do with the Midwest, specifically ORD. UA runs 737's and A320's to places like DSM, MSN, and GRR, yet AA throws a 145 at them.

Not true at all. First of all UA doesnt have every flight a mainline in those markets and secondly not all AA flights are on 50 seaters. In every single one of those markets some UA flights are on CRJs and AA has some flights on E175s. Dont oversimplify. In fact the gap in product between UA and AA out of ORD is smaller today than since the the early 1990s when AA had F100s flying out of commuter slots in ORD.

I’m aware of what United flies and what AA flies (I’m flying the darn plane), but United throws mainline at these cities for multiple flights a day, and AA uses 50 seaters for most and some CR7’s and 175’s. AA has allowed themselves to be bystanders and give the market away. I can only hope that AA has plans for when they have more space in ORD in the future.

AA has NOT given the market away. The fact you say you fly the planes makes me think you have a personal stake in seeing more mainline. I dont know how old you are but in the mid-late 1990s AA flew ATRs in these markets against UA mainline. Id say AA has improved its positions drastically versus 20 year ago.

dfwjim1 · Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:25 pm

flyfresno wrote:
FAT-PHX operates one mainline flight seasonally, would be nice to see it go year-round.

Which season?

FATFlyer · Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:59 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
FAT-PHX operates one mainline flight seasonally, would be nice to see it go year-round.

Which season?

Mainline pops in and out of the Fresno schedule.

For example, there was a 319 on one FAT-PHX frequency during December 2017 and the first 3 months of 2018. Currently the summer schedule is mainly CR9s.

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