Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
N766UA wrote:They could quit sucking so hard
msycajun wrote:Seems to me like DL is doing better at offering point to point routes to cater to their business customers in key markets, especially with the focus cities and new hubs they are building up. Looking at what WN, G4, F9, and Ultimate/OneJet are doing shows that there is a lot of demand for bypassing hubs, yet both UA and AA seemed to be as entrenched as ever.
jetero wrote:[quote="Midwestindy”]My friends in Chicago act like UA is the second coming of christ[/quote]
We must run in different circles ... I can’t remember meeting anyone in Chicago with a good thing to say about UA, especially the employees!
I haven’t looked at the stats in a long time but at one point didn’t AA have a higher O&D share than UA? AA’s international network of course pales in comparison.[/quote][/quote][/quote]
Midwestindy wrote:jetero wrote:[quote="Midwestindy”]My friends in Chicago act like UA is the second coming of christ[/quote]
We must run in different circles ... I can’t remember meeting anyone in Chicago with a good thing to say about UA, especially the employees!
I haven’t looked at the stats in a long time but at one point didn’t AA have a higher O&D share than UA? AA’s international network of course pales in comparison.[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]
Haha, the major selling point for them is the Star Alliance partnership with Lufthansa, especially considering I know a few of them travel to and from Germany frequently (Can't blame them considering AA's partner is BA).
All my Chicago travel is on AA now (in fact I'm in the Admirals Club in ORD as I write this). I used to be in the middle, but AA has added more mainline and less 50 seaters to the destinations I need to get to from ORD. Plus IMO, AA has better hubs than UA, 1. DCA is more convenient than IAD, 2. JFK/LGA are usually more convenient than EWR, 3. UA's LAX hub struggles in service to cities east of the Mississippi and that takes up a sizable chunk of my travel.[/quote]
Planeflyer wrote:Deliver bags faster!
jetero wrote:I’ve done top tier DL and UA for multiple years but haven’t been a big DL flier in 5+ years. I’m sure it’s changed but MileagePlus is (was?) just so much better than SkyMiles.
Moved to Houston, it’s a no brainer. I’d sure give AA a try if I lived in Chicago.
The above said most of my flights this year have been really really good with UA but I just started buying F tickets instead of bothering with the 50-person upgrade lists on A319s.
jayunited wrote:Even though this thread has just started I think you have a valid point. I recent years we have seen DL adding point to point flights, I know we like to call them focus cities here on A.netters but we are seeing DL change the way they expand. While DL still maintains their hubs they are offering their passengers in certain markets a way to bypass busy hubs and you are correct right now UA for sure and probably AA while still focused on growth their growth strategy is to funnel more passenger through hubs while DL is starting to follow the WN business model offer more point to point service. In many markets point to point does have its advantages but you have to have the right sized aircraft and DL does. I think that as both AA and UA are looking to acquire larger narrow bodies they are missing an opportunity to acquire 100 seaters that they could deploy on more point to point routes.
Midwestindy wrote:jetero wrote:Midwestindy wrote:
iyerhari wrote:Another question that could be asked is “What should DL do to close the gap with AA” - they have solid dominant hubs and keen to build themselves at BOS and SEA as their next hubs...
Midwestindy wrote:jetero wrote:I’ve done top tier DL and UA for multiple years but haven’t been a big DL flier in 5+ years. I’m sure it’s changed but MileagePlus is (was?) just so much better than SkyMiles.
Moved to Houston, it’s a no brainer. I’d sure give AA a try if I lived in Chicago.
The above said most of my flights this year have been really really good with UA but I just started buying F tickets instead of bothering with the 50-person upgrade lists on A319s.
I don't know the details but I believe MileagePlus is widely referred to as equal or better than SkyMiles. If I was based in SFO, DEN, IAH, e.t.c I might consider UA, but I'm based in IND and rarely do I have trouble getting upgraded, which is an important factor for a lot of FFs. For the most part so AA's and DL's nonstop options (DCA, LGA, LAX, ORD, e.t.c) make the most sense for me, plus DL's/AA's hubs at ATL, DTW, CLT, e.t.c are very efficient. I don't think UA's hubs at EWR, ORD, and SFO can say the same, which helps contribute to the negative stigma surrounding UA.jayunited wrote:Even though this thread has just started I think you have a valid point. I recent years we have seen DL adding point to point flights, I know we like to call them focus cities here on A.netters but we are seeing DL change the way they expand. While DL still maintains their hubs they are offering their passengers in certain markets a way to bypass busy hubs and you are correct right now UA for sure and probably AA while still focused on growth their growth strategy is to funnel more passenger through hubs while DL is starting to follow the WN business model offer more point to point service. In many markets point to point does have its advantages but you have to have the right sized aircraft and DL does. I think that as both AA and UA are looking to acquire larger narrow bodies they are missing an opportunity to acquire 100 seaters that they could deploy on more point to point routes.
UA doesn't have the point-of-sale strength in enough outstations to make p2p flying work, BOS and CLE have both been shrunk and other carriers have filled a lot of that void.
N766UA wrote:They could quit sucking so hard
WWads wrote:Midwestindy wrote:jetero wrote:
UA doesn't have the point-of-sale strength in enough outstations to make p2p flying work, BOS and CLE have both been shrunk and other carriers have filled a lot of that void.
LAXdude1023 wrote:Why is this a thread? The author from the link owns stock in DL and is actively trying to manipulate it by writing articles like that.
ilovelamp wrote:iyerhari wrote:Another question that could be asked is “What should DL do to close the gap with AA” - they have solid dominant hubs and keen to build themselves at BOS and SEA as their next hubs...
What gap does Delta need to close with AA? Inquiring minds want to know.
DarthLobster wrote:Eradicate all vestiges of CO and return to actually being UA. Oh, and the Tulip. Bring that back. This dead horse needs a few more whallops...
Midwestindy wrote:jayunited wrote:Even though this thread has just started I think you have a valid point. I recent years we have seen DL adding point to point flights, I know we like to call them focus cities here on A.netters but we are seeing DL change the way they expand. While DL still maintains their hubs they are offering their passengers in certain markets a way to bypass busy hubs and you are correct right now UA for sure and probably AA while still focused on growth their growth strategy is to funnel more passenger through hubs while DL is starting to follow the WN business model offer more point to point service. In many markets point to point does have its advantages but you have to have the right sized aircraft and DL does. I think that as both AA and UA are looking to acquire larger narrow bodies they are missing an opportunity to acquire 100 seaters that they could deploy on more point to point routes.
UA doesn't have the point-of-sale strength in enough outstations to make p2p flying work, BOS and CLE have both been shrunk and other carriers have filled a lot of that void.
WWads wrote:DL is just better than UA. It's not any one thing, although DL is definitely the more reliable airline, which matters a lot.
Here's a list of things that jump out, some important, some minor, some barely worth mentioning, but all areas where UA lags behind:
-Many more RJs, including 50-seaters on 1000+ mile routes. DL's longest CRJ route is around 500 miles. For me, this consideration alone rules out UA. I'm not willing to put up with a 50-seater on a long route. Period. UA's mainline fleet is the smallest of the three, and their over-reliance on RJs isn't healthy IMO.
-DL has better on-board service and amenities, including free drinks in Comfort+ and pillows in FC. DL's FC meal windows are also more generous.
-Leaving out the two Polaris lounges, SkyClubs beat the crap out of UA Clubs. They have better food, are newer, and unlike UA, DL didn't rip all the showers out a few years ago. It's insane to me that none of the UA Clubs at IAD have showers.
-DL has better hubs. Now this is a topic of much debate, since UA's hubs tend to be in larger cities than DL's, but ORD is always a disaster waiting to happen, SFO has low-ceiling GDPs pretty much every day, and EWR...well we need not go into details on that one.
-UA's FAs are just bad. The PMCO crews are Ok, but the LUA FAs tend to be terrible. DL's FAs aren't always amazing, but on average they are simply better.
-UA's business class product lags far behind DL. The Polaris seats are nothing to write home about, and won't be fully rolled out until God knows when. Meanwhile there are still dozens of aircraft with 2x4x2 seating in J. That's not acceptable, and it's quite obvious why UA puts them all at their fortress hubs (*cough* IAD *cough*).
-DL's elite program is more generous, and while DL invented FCM, I think they've found a good middle ground between increasing profit and keeping elites happy. Meanwhile UA brazenly hawks cash upgrades at the gate, a practice that should offend UA elites everywhere (especially 1Ks).
-UA customer service still lags far behind, despite some recent improvements. DL's phone CS has actually degraded somewhat, but DL's SC agents are amazing during IRROPS, and treat their elites well. UA still seems to think that the customer is the enemy.
-UA's Y seats are universally terrible. I can't remember the brands, but UA managed to pick the most miserable slimline seat possible, while DL's are actually quite nice, especially on the Airbuses. DL also tends to have more pitch in Y than UA.
-DL has free seatback IFE on nearly every aircraft except for the RJs, and the MDs/717s. UA's domestic fleet lacks on-demand IFE, and charges for DTV.
All things considered, DL is just a better airline. They're not infallible and they're not perfect (SkyTeam sucks vs Star Alliance), but there's a reason why DL is more profitable than UA, and has a better reputation among the public. On an average day, DL just works. On the average day, UA often struggles to meet that basic standard.
727200 wrote:Get rid of co and all their employee's. Since they have infected UA, its been all down hill under their direction. Reality is Kirby is at least an airline guy who understands the day to day operation. Unfortunately, the co group knows only how to run small planes to serve 'Duck Dynasty' passengers. Until UA goes back to serving the business customer, who pays the bills, and stops chasing the leisure market, the nightmare wont end.
MIflyer12 wrote:So much denial... Skip the Levine article and look to the JD Power survey out just last week, with ratings in the seven categories (plus overall).
http://www.jdpower.com/ratings/study/No ... rrier/1269
UA didn't do well in any category. Delta's best ranking - and the only category where it beat Alaska - was in Service Experience. JD Power's definition: 'This score is based on how passengers rate the variety of in-flight entertainment available, variety of food and beverage, availability of in-flight services and quality of in-flight services provided.' You can't win that with a smile: UA is going to need to assess entertainment/AVOD investments and spend some money on food.
DualQual wrote:727200 wrote:Get rid of co and all their employee's. Since they have infected UA, its been all down hill under their direction. Reality is Kirby is at least an airline guy who understands the day to day operation. Unfortunately, the co group knows only how to run small planes to serve 'Duck Dynasty' passengers. Until UA goes back to serving the business customer, who pays the bills, and stops chasing the leisure market, the nightmare wont end.
You are the northern side of a southern bound equine.
N292UX wrote:Maybe they could buy more narrowbody mainline jets instead of flying the E170/5 on routes like ORD-LGA/BOS/DCA and IAH-LGA/DCA/DFW/PHL.
chepos wrote:Not sure what this constant anti UA sentiment is all about.