Flights will be with B777-300ERs on a seasonal basis with the hope of this evolving in to a scheduled service.

http://www.flypittsburgh.com/newsroom/news-releases/charter-flights-between-china-and-pittsburgh-inter

Somebody is subsidizing these flights....$1,000 round trip sounds way low to me.

Skywatcher wrote:

Somebody is subsidizing these flights....$1,000 round trip sounds way low to me.

That's a pretty standard price I think.. my flights to TPE were about 1000 from PIT, less from NYC / SF.

Yep, nothing unusual about that price to Asia.

What do Chinese tourists do in PIT?

SCQ83 wrote:

What do Chinese tourists do in PIT?

From the press release:
"Pittsburgh will be the arriving and departing gateway for hundreds of Chinese tourists who will visit the U.S. East Coast this summer."

So it seems PIT will serve as a gateway airport for tourist itineraries that will cover a large region of the US. I imagine these itineraries would include major attractions such as Gettysburg, Washington, D.C., Niagra Falls, etc. They would probably spend a few nights in or near Pittsburgh as well for the orchestra, a football game, Fallingwater, Flight 93 memorial, etc.

I wonder how many charter flights will take place?

Sorry, but I would think NYC would be more attractive to the Chinese visitors than PIT.

flyPIT wrote:

SCQ83 wrote:

What do Chinese tourists do in PIT?

From the press release:
"Pittsburgh will be the arriving and departing gateway for hundreds of Chinese tourists who will visit the U.S. East Coast this summer."

So it seems PIT will serve as a gateway airport for tourist itineraries that will cover a large region of the US. I imagine these itineraries would include major attractions such as Gettysburg, Washington, D.C., Niagra Falls, etc. They would probably spend a few nights in or near Pittsburgh as well for the orchestra, a football game, Fallingwater, Flight 93 memorial, etc.

Yes I know... they do that in Europe (e.g. there are flights from China to Liege, Belgium).

It is just that I didn't see the reason for PIT being relatively far away from the East Coast. In that sense, other airports like Baltimore or Philadelphia would work better. But since you mention Niagara Falls, PIT is well located for that. They could be bussed PIT-Niagara Falls-NYC-DC-PIT with some other stop in the middle. So this makes a "rectangle". If they land in, let's say, BWI, it would be a much longer way to Niagara Falls without much to do in between.

So what does the first flight from PVG do? Wait, fly back empty, or most likely ferry over to JFK to operate one of their flights from there?

mcogator wrote:

So what does the first flight from PVG do? Wait, fly back empty, or most likely ferry over to JFK to operate one of their flights from there?

It says there will be outbound PIT charters too.

mcogator wrote:

So what does the first flight from PVG do? Wait, fly back empty, or most likely ferry over to JFK to operate one of their flights from there?

They will be selling Shanghai tours from PIT; so it returns to PVG.
http://www.flypittsburgh.com/flights/china-charters

http://www.flypittsburgh.com/getattachment/Flights/China-Charters/18_shanghai-charter-flight.pdf.aspx?lang=en-US

Dominion301 wrote:

mcogator wrote:

So what does the first flight from PVG do? Wait, fly back empty, or most likely ferry over to JFK to operate one of their flights from there?

It says there will be outbound PIT charters too.

I cant imagine they can fill a 77W from PIT by only being able to book through a charter company. I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem if they offered connections on flight websites to the rest of China and SE Asia and Australia/NZ.

SCQ83 wrote:

What do Chinese tourists do in PIT?

Steelers fans are everywhere!

flyPIT wrote:

SCQ83 wrote:

What do Chinese tourists do in PIT?

From the press release:
"Pittsburgh will be the arriving and departing gateway for hundreds of Chinese tourists who will visit the U.S. East Coast this summer."

So it seems PIT will serve as a gateway airport for tourist itineraries that will cover a large region of the US. I imagine these itineraries would include major attractions such as Gettysburg, Washington, D.C., Niagra Falls, etc. They would probably spend a few nights in or near Pittsburgh as well for the orchestra, a football game, Fallingwater, Flight 93 memorial, etc.

Meh...just send them to either a giant outlet mall or Rivers Casino . Either that or they can find some real estate agents to sell properties to Chinese?

But yes, I can imagined Niagara Falls (Hack, Chinese tourists ride by bus all the way from NYC, Pittsburgh to Niagara Falls takes half the time at 4 hrs), maybe even all the way east to Philly. It's a nice way to sell your city to some tourists that would probably never come to Pittsburgh otherwise (Unless they're attending schools i.e. CMU).

SCQ83 wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

SCQ83 wrote:

What do Chinese tourists do in PIT?

From the press release:
"Pittsburgh will be the arriving and departing gateway for hundreds of Chinese tourists who will visit the U.S. East Coast this summer."

So it seems PIT will serve as a gateway airport for tourist itineraries that will cover a large region of the US. I imagine these itineraries would include major attractions such as Gettysburg, Washington, D.C., Niagra Falls, etc. They would probably spend a few nights in or near Pittsburgh as well for the orchestra, a football game, Fallingwater, Flight 93 memorial, etc.

Yes I know... they do that in Europe (e.g. there are flights from China to Liege, Belgium).

It is just that I didn't see the reason for PIT being relatively far away from the East Coast. In that sense, other airports like Baltimore or Philadelphia would work better. But since you mention Niagara Falls, PIT is well located for that. They could be bussed PIT-Niagara Falls-NYC-DC-PIT with some other stop in the middle. So this makes a "rectangle". If they land in, let's say, BWI, it would be a much longer way to Niagara Falls without much to do in between.

Speaking of Liege, Belgium, it instantly reminds me of the upcoming Air Belgium flight from HKG to CRL. And people still wonder what their main targets are.

Of course, places like Bruges are crowded with Chinese tourists already IIRC.

PIT is still a fair drive to Niagara falls, just odd of how Chinese tourists would want to spend much time there. Not much unique, no special shopping. I guess the flight 93 museum and the mountain scenery.

lavalampluva wrote:

Sorry, but I would think NYC would be more attractive to the Chinese visitors than PIT.

That's a very antiquated point of view the tourist industry doesn't just revolve around huge metropolitan areas.

SCQ83 wrote:

What do Chinese tourists do in PIT?

Check out Carnegie Melon

So is this a regularly scheduled charter? How is that not circumventing the bilateral of the US/China aviation agreement? If the slots AA is giving up for the ORD-PEK get picked up by another carrier, could AA then offer ORD-PEK’charters’ over the summer and New Years period?

klm617 wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

Sorry, but I would think NYC would be more attractive to the Chinese visitors than PIT.

That's a very antiquated point of view the tourist industry doesn't just revolve around huge metropolitan areas.

Saying that Pittsburgh is a fun place to visit you or me who can fly there in an hour is a much different matter than saying that people will fly halfway around the world to go there.

That said, PIT may be a sensible jumping off point and having tourists spend a day and a half there to catch a flight is certainly better than those folks not coming at all.

lavalampluva wrote:

Sorry, but I would think NYC would be more attractive to the Chinese visitors than PIT.

Maybe, but at least PIT doesn't have the congestion issues prevalent at JFK/EWR.

lavalampluva wrote:

Sorry, but I would think NYC would be more attractive to the Chinese visitors than PIT.

....people who want to do that, can book any of the multiple China-NYC flights that have been flying for decades.

How's that relevant to what's being discussed here?

mcogator wrote:

Dominion301 wrote:

It says there will be outbound PIT charters too.

I cant imagine they can fill a 77W from PIT by only being able to book through a charter company. I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem if they offered connections on flight websites to the rest of China and SE Asia and Australia/NZ.

You'd need regulatory approval to operate that (even partially) as a non-charter connecting flight, and there are none currently available for a PVG/PEK/CAN flight.

klm617 wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

Sorry, but I would think NYC would be more attractive to the Chinese visitors than PIT.

That's a very antiquated point of view the tourist industry doesn't just revolve around huge metropolitan areas.

Favorite U.S. destinations of international travelers:

NYC
Las Vegas
Miami
Los Angeles
San Diego
Orlando
San Francisco
Honolulu
Houston
Boston

Put up some data and a source or concede the point.

http://www.360chicago.com/top-us-cities ... -visitors/

It amazes me how people on a.net fall all over themselves justifying why IAH should be connected to Africa and why Delta should fly from Atlanta to India but have issues when a secondary airport like PIT lands this kind of service. In my opinion commercial aviation needs more of these links than more flights to already over served markets that just kill any links for any airports near by. Congrats to Pittsburgh on landing this flight and a PIT-PVG link is more of what is needed than either IAH-Africa or ATL-India. Congrats to Pittsburgh and may this flight take-off with flying colors.

MIflyer12 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

Sorry, but I would think NYC would be more attractive to the Chinese visitors than PIT.

That's a very antiquated point of view the tourist industry doesn't just revolve around huge metropolitan areas.

Favorite U.S. destinations of international travelers:

NYC
Las Vegas
Miami
Los Angeles
San Diego
Orlando
San Francisco
Honolulu
Houston
Boston

Put up some data and a source or concede the point.

http://www.360chicago.com/top-us-cities ... -visitors/

Nobody says NYC is not a favorite the antiquated point is thinking everything has to end or begin at a NYC airport. Give Pittsburgh and China Eastern credit for doing something outside of the box more of this type of thinking is what is needed in the commercial airline world.

MIflyer12 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

Sorry, but I would think NYC would be more attractive to the Chinese visitors than PIT.

That's a very antiquated point of view the tourist industry doesn't just revolve around huge metropolitan areas.

Favorite U.S. destinations of international travelers:

NYC
Las Vegas
Miami
Los Angeles
San Diego
Orlando
San Francisco
Honolulu
Houston
Boston

Put up some data and a source or concede the point.

http://www.360chicago.com/top-us-cities ... -visitors/

I'm sorry this list is not authentic there is no way that more people in the domestic market are visiting ATL than LAS tourism is not the unit of measure that was used in that link.

klm617 wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

That's a very antiquated point of view the tourist industry doesn't just revolve around huge metropolitan areas.

Favorite U.S. destinations of international travelers:

NYC
Las Vegas
Miami
Los Angeles
San Diego
Orlando
San Francisco
Honolulu
Houston
Boston

Put up some data and a source or concede the point.

http://www.360chicago.com/top-us-cities ... -visitors/

I'm sorry this list is not authentic there is no way that more people in the domestic market are visiting ATL than LAS tourism is not the unit of measure that was used in that link.

So quit your whining, do the ten seconds of research needed to pony up a different link, and post it. Here I'll do it for you. Per Expedia

1. NYC
2. LAX
3. MCO
4. LAS
5. ORD
6. DC
7. SFO
8. MIA
9. DEN
10. ATL

In conclusion yes, tourism to the United States does revolve around large metropolitan areas. You're wrong. again.

What I find interesting is that this is not like the airline will continue flying charters to Pittsburgh like the way it seems when they say charter services will begin after August 3rd.
Apparently, this is just one flight from Pittsburgh and back in a week, currently there are no plans to do any charters after that.
I do not see what the economic goal of this flight is.
https://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com ... ittsburgh/

winginit wrote:

klm617 wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

Favorite U.S. destinations of international travelers:

NYC
Las Vegas
Miami
Los Angeles
San Diego
Orlando
San Francisco
Honolulu
Houston
Boston

Put up some data and a source or concede the point.

http://www.360chicago.com/top-us-cities ... -visitors/

I'm sorry this list is not authentic there is no way that more people in the domestic market are visiting ATL than LAS tourism is not the unit of measure that was used in that link.

So quit your whining, do the ten seconds of research needed to pony up a different link, and post it. Here I'll do it for you. Per Expedia

1. NYC
2. LAX
3. MCO
4. LAS
5. ORD
6. DC
7. SFO
8. MIA
9. DEN
10. ATL

In conclusion yes, tourism to the United States does revolve around large metropolitan areas. You're wrong. again.

Meh...klm617 is just pissed b/c even MU decided to not fly to DTW, and instead, go into PIT first.

On the other hand, seriously, it's just a few charters. Good for Pittsburgh for recognizing the possibility of increasing the exposure of the city to more Chinese. Are they necessarily just visiting Pittsburgh? Probably not, it'll be all over the region or even as far east as Philly or well, NYC.

Some of you seem to not really understand how tour groups from China (and elsewhere that is highly non-English oriented) travel.
Flying directly into a big city attraction isn't important AT ALL. They will travel beyond Pittsburgh. By coach, train, air, whatever. Their itinerary will likely include NYC, as it may DC, Boston, maybe Cinci, who knows?

They will eat as a group, shop as a group, gawk as a group. There will be little separation and individual exploration. They won't be going to Broadway shows.
They don't need much time in the "premier locations". They just need a quick looky. Enough to see something, snap some pix have a meal or two. They are happy being shuttled around to other, less obvious places for much of the time. Its actually quite charming.

I have a family member who is mandarin fluent and spent a few years working as a guide/chaperone/translator/fixer for groups of Chinese who would fly in for two weeks. Not charter, the groups numbered around 30, but they would come into a major entry city, on one coast, spend one night, then begin their travels. They would hit places that fell into some particular area of interest, and you'd be surprised that this meant some fairly smaller places, like Little Rock, or Akron. They only stayed maybe two nights in each location; maximizing the opportunity was a big deal.

Nearly every meal was arranged, and many were in Chinese restaurants. Things like New York style pizza or Chesapeake crab cakes were not really appreciated. BBQ was.
Lots of time spent in shopping malls, even though many purchased nothing - not that the domestic Chinese doesn't have massive choice at home - partially its the shear novelty, but also because many of these tourists are not really from a Shanghai or Beijing.... many are from far more provincial areas. These people are probably disproportionately represented in group travel.

After visiting 4 or 5 cities (only 2 might be what you'd think of as "tourist places") in the span of two weeks, they'd wind up on the opposite coast, in a major city where they'd exit the US.

I strongly suspect these Pittsburgh tours will reflect a similar, if smaller, and closed loop version of the same.


I almost forgot to add - a smaller, less int'l airport like Pittsburgh is absolutely ideal relative to a zoo like JFK. 300 Chinese tourists , most of whom are likely to possess relativity low English skills , is a very challenging group to shepard about in a congested and secured place like a big airport. Just getting thru customer/immgration at PIT vs JFK is soooooooooooooooooo worth it.

FlyHappy wrote:

Some of you seem to not really understand how tour groups from China (and elsewhere that is highly non-English oriented) travel.
Flying directly into a big city attraction isn't important AT ALL. They will travel beyond Pittsburgh. By coach, train, air, whatever. Their itinerary will likely include NYC, as it may DC, Boston, maybe Cinci, who knows?

They will eat as a group, shop as a group, gawk as a group. There will be little separation and individual exploration. They won't be going to Broadway shows.
They don't need much time in the "premier locations". They just need a quick looky. Enough to see something, snap some pix have a meal or two. They are happy being shuttled around to other, less obvious places for much of the time. Its actually quite charming.

I have a family member who is mandarin fluent and spent a few years working as a guide/chaperone/translator/fixer for groups of Chinese who would fly in for two weeks. Not charter, the groups numbered around 30, but they would come into a major entry city, on one coast, spend one night, then begin their travels. They would hit places that fell into some particular area of interest, and you'd be surprised that this meant some fairly smaller places, like Little Rock, or Akron. They only stayed maybe two nights in each location; maximizing the opportunity was a big deal.

Nearly every meal was arranged, and many were in Chinese restaurants. Things like New York style pizza or Chesapeake crab cakes were not really appreciated. BBQ was.
Lots of time spent in shopping malls, even though many purchased nothing - not that the domestic Chinese doesn't have massive choice at home - partially its the shear novelty, but also because many of these tourists are not really from a Shanghai or Beijing.... many are from far more provincial areas. These people are probably disproportionately represented in group travel.

After visiting 4 or 5 cities (only 2 might be what you'd think of as "tourist places") in the span of two weeks, they'd wind up on the opposite coast, in a major city where they'd exit the US.

I strongly suspect these Pittsburgh tours will reflect a similar, if smaller, and closed loop version of the same.

Not necessarily the same experiences, but American just have to realized that first time visitor doesn't even necessarily know where each and every places are. All they know is that they ride 2-3 hours of bus through countryside, don't even necessarily know which direction they're going, and visit a bunch of "nice looking places" (that can be VERY ordinary to your average American) that's worthy of taking a few pictures and sent back home to their friends/family via WeChat/Weibo/whatever. And boom, you got all these "ohh" and "ahh".

As far as shopping goes - that's why I instantly suggested outlet malls . I've seen way more than enough Chinese tour group buses that just roll into outlet malls by the bus load (And no, not even LA or NYC, I'm talking about Houston and San Marcos TX; big cities like Chicago is of course crazier, with literally groups of Chinese that probably just got off a flight from HU/MU and off they go to Fashion Outlet of Chicago next to ORD ). And who say they don't shop? Every time I'm seeing 10s of bag that they're holding, while the next person is rolling around a giant suitcases. (Chinese LOVES luxury brand names, why do you think your LV stores in Europe or US are half-filled with Chinese staffs . And it's still expensive to buy those luxury goods in China due to tariffs).

zakuivcustom wrote:

Not necessarily the same experiences, but American just have to realized that first time visitor doesn't even necessarily know where each and every places are.

I think you and I understand each other on this matter.
These tourists will absolutely appreciate Pittsburgh and everywhere else they go, even if it does not involve NYC.

MIflyer12 wrote:

Favorite U.S. destinations of international travelers:

NYC
Las Vegas
Miami
Los Angeles
San Diego
Orlando
San Francisco
Honolulu
Houston
Boston

Though your overall point remains the same, these numbers are a bit skewed (so far as aviation purposes go) as this compilation was done by city, not by metro.

The Los Angeles numbers for example don't include Anaheim (Disney), Beverly Hills ($$$), West Hollywood (LGBT), Santa Monica (beach), Malibu, etc... all of which are hugely popular with int'l travelers, and most of which are included but counted separately (same for that Hotels list that was posted here a few weeks ago).

Same for Miami, which doesn't include Miami Beach, Ft. Lauderdale, or Palm Beach.

Very cool to see however limited it might be. PIT is a regional hub, many places in a few hours drive. The economy is doing well, and these Chinese have money to spend.

MIflyer12 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

Sorry, but I would think NYC would be more attractive to the Chinese visitors than PIT.

That's a very antiquated point of view the tourist industry doesn't just revolve around huge metropolitan areas.

Favorite U.S. destinations of international travelers:

NYC
Las Vegas
Miami
Los Angeles
San Diego
Orlando
San Francisco
Honolulu
Houston
Boston

Put up some data and a source or concede the point.

http://www.360chicago.com/top-us-cities ... -visitors/

What point does he have to concede? Why is there international service to any other city outside of that list if that is where all tourists go? He isn't saying they should start service to PIT, he is saying why "they should just fly to NYC" is a foolish statement for a flight that an airline announces they are going to fly. This is an aviation forum for crying out loud.

klm617 wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

That's a very antiquated point of view the tourist industry doesn't just revolve around huge metropolitan areas.

Favorite U.S. destinations of international travelers:

NYC
Las Vegas
Miami
Los Angeles
San Diego
Orlando
San Francisco
Honolulu
Houston
Boston

Put up some data and a source or concede the point.

http://www.360chicago.com/top-us-cities ... -visitors/

I'm sorry this list is not authentic there is no way that more people in the domestic market are visiting ATL than LAS tourism is not the unit of measure that was used in that link.

What's with the disdain for Atlanta? I've noticed anytime ATL is mentioned you immediately attempt to discredit or devalue the city in some manner. Interesting.

n2dru wrote:

klm617 wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

Favorite U.S. destinations of international travelers:

NYC
Las Vegas
Miami
Los Angeles
San Diego
Orlando
San Francisco
Honolulu
Houston
Boston

Put up some data and a source or concede the point.

http://www.360chicago.com/top-us-cities ... -visitors/

I'm sorry this list is not authentic there is no way that more people in the domestic market are visiting ATL than LAS tourism is not the unit of measure that was used in that link.

What's with the disdain for Atlanta? I've noticed anytime ATL is mentioned you immediately attempt to discredit or devalue the city in some manner. Interesting.

He is salty that ATL is a larger hub for DL than DTW is, he wishes that DTW would be DL's biggest hub.

Before this futher turns into yet another DTW thread and gets locked...

This has been in the works for quite some time and is a massive win for the ACAA and the city of Pittsburgh in getting a direct link to China. While it is statistically true that the majority of traffic to and from China is out of the largest US cities, it certianly doesn’t mean that cities like Pittsburgh don’t deserve a direct link as well.

Although I will say, I’m surprised the charters are being done by MU on B77Ws. I thought Hainan with B787s would’ve made more sense. And only 2 flights for all of 2018 that are in the same month only a few days apart? Seems pretty odd to me (aside from the Fall 2018 semester for colleges starting at around that time).

Runway28L wrote:

This has been in the works for quite some time and is a massive win for the ACAA and the city of Pittsburgh in getting a direct link to China.

Can anyone confirm what the frequency of these will be?

I've now seen it twice posted that there is currently only one confirmed roundtrip flight actually set.

If that's actually the case, then this is much ado about nothing... and certainly no "massive win," as any dump can get a 1off charter flight to somewhere.

Hoping (for both PIT and AvGeeks' sake) that this is meant to be a recurring service.

Skywatcher wrote:

Somebody is subsidizing these flights....$1,000 round trip sounds way low to me.

I believe there is a subsidy of about $500,000 for each round trip (2 max). I don't however know if it is a revenue guarantee offset or a blanket payment/flight.

Regarding the subsidy, it is $560,000 for one year, not per round trip. Who knows how many flights that will be. The subsidy decreases as more tickets get sold. It is part of a 3 year agreement with Chinese tour operator Caissa Touristic. A couple non-aviation entities such as VisitPittsburgh and Idea Foundary, a non-profit that supports educational and economic success of Chinese families in Pittsburgh will be adding to the pot.

Regarding the frequency, there will be two round trips in August, nothing scheduled beyond that at this point AFAIK. Two round trips a week apart because the point of sale will be from both cities. PVG-PIT with Chinese tourists then it turns right around and does PIT-PVG with US tourists, then they return a week later.

flyPIT wrote:

Regarding the subsidy, it is $560,000 for one year, not per round trip. Who knows how many flights that will be. The subsidy decreases as more tickets get sold. It is part of a 3 year agreement with Chinese tour operator Caissa Touristic. A couple non-aviation entities such as VisitPittsburgh and Idea Foundary, a non-profit that supports educational and economic success of Chinese families in Pittsburgh will be adding to the pot.

Regarding the frequency, there will be two round trips in August, nothing scheduled beyond that at this point AFAIK. Two round trips a week apart because the point of sale will be from both cities. PVG-PIT with Chinese tourists then it turns right around and does PIT-PVG with US tourists, then they return a week later.

Actually the financial agreement is up to $560K for 2 Round Trips (Flight Incentive) + $350K Promotion/Marketing to a Chinese Tourist Company over 3 Years for a total of around $910K to acquire a commitment of 2 Round trips.That's roughly $450K per round trip. As you indicated, the Flight Incentive amount reduces based on achieving a Revenue goal. Why Pittsburgh got involved with this is a mystery to me.

Pittsburgh is a neat city. But I have no idea what international tourist appeal it would have.

SCQ83 wrote:

What do Chinese tourists do in PIT?

Asians fly in and gamble the rivers casino is right downtown and quite nice. Philly/Allentown/Scranton/Jersey Shore casinos got bus loads of international (mainly Asian) tourists come in and gamble. So the casino is one huge draw. And the Steelers.

acentauri wrote:

Actually the financial agreement is up to $560K for 2 Round Trips (Flight Incentive) + $350K Promotion/Marketing to a Chinese Tourist Company over 3 Years for a total of around $910K to acquire a commitment of 2 Round trips.That's roughly $450K per round trip. As you indicated, the Flight Incentive amount reduces based on achieving a Revenue goal. Why Pittsburgh got involved with this is a mystery to me.

"The subsidies are part of a three-year agreement with Caissa to market and sell trips to Pittsburgh. However, the flight currently is guaranteed for only one year."
http://www.post-gazette.com/business/development/2018/05/31/Pittsburgh-to-Shanghai-Charter-service-to-begin-in-August/stories/201805310158

So I read that to mean if and when additional flights are added within the year they will be covered under the same subsidy. If it is a complete flop and no other tours are added then yeah, what you said. I'm not even considering the 350K as that's marketing to promote the region from a tourism bureau whether there are flights or not.

flyPIT wrote:

SCQ83 wrote:

What do Chinese tourists do in PIT?

From the press release:
"Pittsburgh will be the arriving and departing gateway for hundreds of Chinese tourists who will visit the U.S. East Coast this summer."

So it seems PIT will serve as a gateway airport for tourist itineraries that will cover a large region of the US. I imagine these itineraries would include major attractions such as Gettysburg, Washington, D.C., Niagra Falls, etc. They would probably spend a few nights in or near Pittsburgh as well for the orchestra, a football game, Fallingwater, Flight 93 memorial, etc.

bravoindia wrote:

SCQ83 wrote:

What do Chinese tourists do in PIT?

Asians fly in and gamble the rivers casino is right downtown and quite nice. Philly/Allentown/Scranton/Jersey Shore casinos got bus loads of international (mainly Asian) tourists come in and gamble. So the casino is one huge draw. And the Steelers.

Bricktop wrote:

SCQ83 wrote:

What do Chinese tourists do in PIT?

Steelers fans are everywhere!

NFL regular season doesn't start until September, I doubt anyone would want to see a preseason game but the Steelers first one isn't until weeks after the r/ts happen....

LAX772LR wrote:

Runway28L wrote:

This has been in the works for quite some time and is a massive win for the ACAA and the city of Pittsburgh in getting a direct link to China.

Can anyone confirm what the frequency of these will be?

I've now seen it twice posted that there is currently only one confirmed roundtrip flight actually set.

If that's actually the case, then this is much ado about nothing... and certainly no "massive win," as any dump can get a 1off charter flight to somewhere.

Hoping (for both PIT and AvGeeks' sake) that this is meant to be a recurring service.

I too am confused on the "massive win" part, $450K(per r/t) for 2 one off Round Trip Charter Flights is a lot of money.

FlyHappy wrote:

Some of you seem to not really understand how tour groups from China (and elsewhere that is highly non-English oriented) travel.
Flying directly into a big city attraction isn't important AT ALL. They will travel beyond Pittsburgh. By coach, train, air, whatever. Their itinerary will likely include NYC, as it may DC, Boston, maybe Cinci, who knows?

They will eat as a group, shop as a group, gawk as a group. There will be little separation and individual exploration. They won't be going to Broadway shows.
They don't need much time in the "premier locations". They just need a quick looky. Enough to see something, snap some pix have a meal or two. They are happy being shuttled around to other, less obvious places for much of the time. Its actually quite charming.

I have a family member who is mandarin fluent and spent a few years working as a guide/chaperone/translator/fixer for groups of Chinese who would fly in for two weeks. Not charter, the groups numbered around 30, but they would come into a major entry city, on one coast, spend one night, then begin their travels. They would hit places that fell into some particular area of interest, and you'd be surprised that this meant some fairly smaller places, like Little Rock, or Akron. They only stayed maybe two nights in each location; maximizing the opportunity was a big deal.

Nearly every meal was arranged, and many were in Chinese restaurants. Things like New York style pizza or Chesapeake crab cakes were not really appreciated. BBQ was.
Lots of time spent in shopping malls, even though many purchased nothing - not that the domestic Chinese doesn't have massive choice at home - partially its the shear novelty, but also because many of these tourists are not really from a Shanghai or Beijing.... many are from far more provincial areas. These people are probably disproportionately represented in group travel.

After visiting 4 or 5 cities (only 2 might be what you'd think of as "tourist places") in the span of two weeks, they'd wind up on the opposite coast, in a major city where they'd exit the US.

I strongly suspect these Pittsburgh tours will reflect a similar, if smaller, and closed loop version of the same.


I almost forgot to add - a smaller, less int'l airport like Pittsburgh is absolutely ideal relative to a zoo like JFK. 300 Chinese tourists , most of whom are likely to possess relativity low English skills , is a very challenging group to shepard about in a congested and secured place like a big airport. Just getting thru customer/immgration at PIT vs JFK is soooooooooooooooooo worth it.

I can't imagine a more awful way to travel. I like to really experience a place and what is has to offer and dig in to the local culture if I'm going to travel half way around the world - and I certainly hate being shuttled around like cattle.

Just me though, I can understand why some people enjoy the convience of having everything planned and taken care of for you.

Kno wrote:

I can't imagine a more awful way to travel. I like to really experience a place and what is has to offer and dig in to the local culture if I'm going to travel half way around the world - and I certainly hate being shuttled around like cattle.

Just me though, I can understand why some people enjoy the convenience of having everything planned and taken care of for you.

yeah..... I don't think any of us can quite put ourselves in their shoes.
they are severely disadvantaged when they don't have reasonable english verbal or reading skills. the world at large, even very nearby areas, universally use english as a second language, so even if you aren't conversant in Portuguese (or whatever) , some english will allow you to easily travel and all that goes with it. any monolingual, from a character based language is completely isolated in most of the western world.

when you cannot read or speak english, the prospect of a solo trip to non-Mandarin/Cantonese speaking country is very daunting.
reading a display in an airport, conveying instruction to a taxi, checking into a hotel, ordering food in a restaurant, paying for entrance into that museum you are interested in..... all of these are massive challenges that no anglophone can appreciate.

yes, I'm aware of the of ever greater efforts in all parts of the world to welcome Chinese tourists with signage, translators, familiar foods, etc... but these are tiny, tiny steps and are barely enough to just keep a chinese-only speaker above the helpless toddler level. No one likes to be completely dependent on strangers to guide you about on a vacation. That's no fun - if you're gonna be dependant, its more enjoyable to be in a group, where communication and shared experience adds to the flavor.

** don't jump on me with silliness about how plenty of chinese tourists can speak english, etc. I'm well aware. But there's a difference between capability and confidence.

Kno wrote:

FlyHappy wrote:

Some of you seem to not really understand how tour groups from China (and elsewhere that is highly non-English oriented) travel.
Flying directly into a big city attraction isn't important AT ALL. They will travel beyond Pittsburgh. By coach, train, air, whatever. Their itinerary will likely include NYC, as it may DC, Boston, maybe Cinci, who knows?

They will eat as a group, shop as a group, gawk as a group. There will be little separation and individual exploration. They won't be going to Broadway shows.
They don't need much time in the "premier locations". They just need a quick looky. Enough to see something, snap some pix have a meal or two. They are happy being shuttled around to other, less obvious places for much of the time. Its actually quite charming.

I have a family member who is mandarin fluent and spent a few years working as a guide/chaperone/translator/fixer for groups of Chinese who would fly in for two weeks. Not charter, the groups numbered around 30, but they would come into a major entry city, on one coast, spend one night, then begin their travels. They would hit places that fell into some particular area of interest, and you'd be surprised that this meant some fairly smaller places, like Little Rock, or Akron. They only stayed maybe two nights in each location; maximizing the opportunity was a big deal.

Nearly every meal was arranged, and many were in Chinese restaurants. Things like New York style pizza or Chesapeake crab cakes were not really appreciated. BBQ was.
Lots of time spent in shopping malls, even though many purchased nothing - not that the domestic Chinese doesn't have massive choice at home - partially its the shear novelty, but also because many of these tourists are not really from a Shanghai or Beijing.... many are from far more provincial areas. These people are probably disproportionately represented in group travel.

After visiting 4 or 5 cities (only 2 might be what you'd think of as "tourist places") in the span of two weeks, they'd wind up on the opposite coast, in a major city where they'd exit the US.

I strongly suspect these Pittsburgh tours will reflect a similar, if smaller, and closed loop version of the same.


I almost forgot to add - a smaller, less int'l airport like Pittsburgh is absolutely ideal relative to a zoo like JFK. 300 Chinese tourists , most of whom are likely to possess relativity low English skills , is a very challenging group to shepard about in a congested and secured place like a big airport. Just getting thru customer/immgration at PIT vs JFK is soooooooooooooooooo worth it.

I can't imagine a more awful way to travel. I like to really experience a place and what is has to offer and dig in to the local culture if I'm going to travel half way around the world - and I certainly hate being shuttled around like cattle.

Just me though, I can understand why some people enjoy the convience of having everything planned and taken care of for you.

In Chinese (at least Hong Kong) we call those tour group "鴨仔團" (Literally means "Duckling Tours", b/c the way those tourists followed the guide is very similar to how little ducklings follow the mother duck when they cross the road). Price is also a factor - those group tours tend to be cheaper once you factored in everything (Transportation, Hotels, Plane Tickets, etc.). Yes, you don't see them in rural areas that often (Usually in US they would be around LA or NYC, and staying in Chinatown areas such as St. Gabriel Valley in LA or around Flushing in NYC), but not totally unheard of, either.

And remember - like FlyHappy said previously, the people in those tour groups tend to be from more backwater areas of China instead of places like PRD, Shanghai, or Beijing. The average age of those people tend to be somewhat older (40s/50s), and you just can't expect them to be ultra comfortable in a totally foreign setting. Fairly often for some of those people, it's their first time to travel these far also. Another thing to keep in mind is that being even able to freely travel is a relatively new concept for many mainland Chinese.

The complaints I'm reading sound identical to the ones about anyone flying to PDX. "Why go to PDX when SEA is so close?" "Tourists only want to go to SEA." "The pax are just going to connect on AS up to SEA anyway." "PDX...it's a nice quaint little city but it's no SEA...."
Just because a city isn't in the top 10 of international travel demand doesn't mean nobody will go there and the route will inevitably fail. Hard as it is to believe, not everyone wants their trip to the U.S. to be all about NYC.

FlyHappy wrote:

Kno wrote:

I can't imagine a more awful way to travel. I like to really experience a place and what is has to offer and dig in to the local culture if I'm going to travel half way around the world - and I certainly hate being shuttled around like cattle.

Just me though, I can understand why some people enjoy the convenience of having everything planned and taken care of for you.

yeah..... I don't think any of us can quite put ourselves in their shoes.
they are severely disadvantaged when they don't have reasonable english verbal or reading skills. the world at large, even very nearby areas, universally use english as a second language, so even if you aren't conversant in Portuguese (or whatever) , some english will allow you to easily travel and all that goes with it. any monolingual, from a character based language is completely isolated in most of the western world.

when you cannot read or speak english, the prospect of a solo trip to non-Mandarin/Cantonese speaking country is very daunting.
reading a display in an airport, conveying instruction to a taxi, checking into a hotel, ordering food in a restaurant, paying for entrance into that museum you are interested in..... all of these are massive challenges that no anglophone can appreciate.

yes, I'm aware of the of ever greater efforts in all parts of the world to welcome Chinese tourists with signage, translators, familiar foods, etc... but these are tiny, tiny steps and are barely enough to just keep a chinese-only speaker above the helpless toddler level. No one likes to be completely dependent on strangers to guide you about on a vacation. That's no fun - if you're gonna be dependant, its more enjoyable to be in a group, where communication and shared experience adds to the flavor.

** don't jump on me with silliness about how plenty of chinese tourists can speak english, etc. I'm well aware. But there's a difference between capability and confidence.

Seems like a double standard, no? Americans who don’t learn second languages are “insular,” “uncultured,” etc. but we ought to cater to Chinese who don’t? I think both groups ought to have equal help traveling (both languages are tough to learn and English signage is good in many places where spoken English isn’t, like much of Japan), but the different reactions to functionally similar groups are interesting.