Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018

qf789 · Thu May 31, 2018 9:49 am

Welcome to the Australian Aviation Thread - June 2018 edition. Link to previous thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1392923

Link to QF Fleet Thread 2018

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1382753

Qantas16 · Thu May 31, 2018 10:06 am

Tomorrow's EK434/435 will be the last EK A380 service to BNE for a few months as it gets replaced by a 77W. A380 is meant to be back in BNE on September 1.

eta unknown · Thu May 31, 2018 10:07 am

According to my clock we're still in May... perhaps over eager welcome?

qf789 · Thu May 31, 2018 10:23 am

eta unknown wrote:
According to my clock we're still in May... perhaps over eager welcome?

I actually open the new thread about this time every month, besides I am about to leave for work of which I wont be able to do it later

JBusworth · Thu May 31, 2018 11:52 am

Pretty sure the new thread usually starts around the time the next moth starts on the International date line. I'd imagine that isn't intentional though.

Wonder what QF is announcing? Queanbeyan Airport in partnership with the Wagners? :lol:

kriskim · Thu May 31, 2018 12:30 pm

June will be a robust month for MEL as new services and service increases get underway!

- Air Canada will launch x3 weekly year round service, increasing to x4 weekly in December
- Malindo Air will launch daily services to KUL via DPS
- Qantas will launch daily services to DPS, complementing Jetstar's current x2 daily service
- Philippine Airlines increases MNL services to x5 weekly

zkncj · Thu May 31, 2018 8:10 pm

CraigAnderson wrote:
Just heard that QF to make 'a network announcement set to benefit travellers' tomorrow AM in Sydney, wonder what it will be?

Could it been the end of JetConnect (As an operator) ? they are now down to just 4x 738s hardly worth keeping there New Zealand AOC for that purpose?

JetConnect could solely become an crewing supplier, like they currently are for Jetstar New Zealand and Qantas Mainline services e.g. New Zealand based Cabin Crew (via JetConnect) crewing VH aircraft is already done.

Could JetConnect 738 services be replaced with QLink A320's ex-JQ? cargo wise the A320 would make more sense on the Tasman.

downdata · Thu May 31, 2018 11:02 pm

zkncj wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Just heard that QF to make 'a network announcement set to benefit travellers' tomorrow AM in Sydney, wonder what it will be?

Could it been the end of JetConnect (As an operator) ? they are now down to just 4x 738s hardly worth keeping there New Zealand AOC for that purpose?

JetConnect could solely become an crewing supplier, like they currently are for Jetstar New Zealand and Qantas Mainline services e.g. New Zealand based Cabin Crew (via JetConnect) crewing VH aircraft is already done.

Could JetConnect 738 services be replaced with QLink A320's ex-JQ? cargo wise the A320 would make more sense on the Tasman.

Isnt the exJQ A320s in all Y config?

Rumor has it that JQ is being spun off to a sepreate listed entity. But its probably unlikely as news would have leaked a long time ago.

DeltaB717 · Thu May 31, 2018 11:28 pm

zkncj wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Just heard that QF to make 'a network announcement set to benefit travellers' tomorrow AM in Sydney, wonder what it will be?

Could it been the end of JetConnect (As an operator) ? they are now down to just 4x 738s hardly worth keeping there New Zealand AOC for that purpose?

JetConnect could solely become an crewing supplier, like they currently are for Jetstar New Zealand and Qantas Mainline services e.g. New Zealand based Cabin Crew (via JetConnect) crewing VH aircraft is already done.

Could JetConnect 738 services be replaced with QLink A320's ex-JQ? cargo wise the A320 would make more sense on the Tasman.

It's already been announced some time ago that Jetconnect would cease 'operating' and become a cabin crew supplier. The 4 remaining ZK aircraft are due back in the mainline fleet over the coming months, at which time the AOC will be cancelled.

downdata is correct that the ex-JQ A320s are all-Y and are very unlikely to be seen on trans-Tasman (not to mention I doubt you'd ever see the 'QantasLink' brand on trans-Tasman, at least not as trans-Tasman is now).

TasFlyer · Thu May 31, 2018 11:36 pm

zkncj wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Just heard that QF to make 'a network announcement set to benefit travellers' tomorrow AM in Sydney, wonder what it will be?

Could it been the end of JetConnect (As an operator) ? they are now down to just 4x 738s hardly worth keeping there New Zealand AOC for that purpose?

JetConnect could solely become an crewing supplier, like they currently are for Jetstar New Zealand and Qantas Mainline services e.g. New Zealand based Cabin Crew (via JetConnect) crewing VH aircraft is already done.

Could JetConnect 738 services be replaced with QLink A320's ex-JQ? cargo wise the A320 would make more sense on the Tasman.

Could it be something to do with the two class 717s, some of which are presently out of action with MEL flying being operated by mainline 73H? New routes perhaps?

vhebb · Thu May 31, 2018 11:47 pm

JQ being sold off won't happen.

Infact QF have stated that as part of the next phase of the transformation program they are working more closely with JQ in combining systems and back of house functions, and removing some duplications to further cut costs.

zkncj · Thu May 31, 2018 11:48 pm

DeltaB717 wrote:
Downdata is correct that the ex-JQ A320s are all-Y and are very unlikely to be seen on trans-Tasman (not to mention I doubt you'd ever see the 'QantasLink' brand on trans-Tasman, at least not as trans-Tasman is now).

At the same time it was Qantas (ref: https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-says-it-has-no-plans-to-charge-for-meals-drinks-and-baggage?utm_source=grid ) last week that was toying with removing free Meals, Drinks and IFE on the Tasman so really thing could be possible going forward with the Tasman. There is really nothing to stop QF from installing J seats into ex JQ A320s, the same seat that is used on the 738 should be able to be used on an A320.

With the NZ/VA split, its going to be back to 8 years ago when it was NZ vs QF vs VA all fighting of attention on the Tasman, I would be expecting to see changes in the comming months as things heatup.

moa999 · Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:29 am

QF / NZ reciprocal codeshares on domestic flights, not Ttans Tasman, commencing 28 Oct 2018

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... el-easier/

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-air-new ... artnership

qf789 · Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:32 am

BITRE our for March

PER-LHR
Inbound 1188 - 6 services average 198 passengers 83% LF
Outbound 1039 - 8 services average 129 passengers, 55% LF

It is unclear if this is all passengers or just those from/to PER

https://bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoi ... y_1803.pdf

JBusworth · Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:38 am

moa999 wrote:
QF / NZ reciprocal codeshares on domestic flights, not TT

Wow, VA is going to be very very unhappy with this move.

Personally I think it's great. It will allow for QF and NZ to share the most extensive Aus/NZ network.

Sydscott · Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:02 am

JBusworth wrote:
moa999 wrote:
QF / NZ reciprocal codeshares on domestic flights, not TT

Wow, VA is going to be very very unhappy with this move.

Personally I think it's great. It will allow for QF and NZ to share the most extensive Aus/NZ network.

I'm having a deja vu moment big time! That's certainly not what I was expecting today but the logic of it is absolutely compelling for both carriers. Definitely a slap across the face for JB and Virgin and makes their competitive life just that more difficult.

a7ala · Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:13 am

Sydscott wrote:
JBusworth wrote:
moa999 wrote:
QF / NZ reciprocal codeshares on domestic flights, not TT

Wow, VA is going to be very very unhappy with this move.

Personally I think it's great. It will allow for QF and NZ to share the most extensive Aus/NZ network.

I'm having a deja vu moment big time! That's certainly not what I was expecting today but the logic of it is absolutely compelling for both carriers. Definitely a slap across the face for JB and Virgin and makes their competitive life just that more difficult.

I wonder what this means for jetstar in new Zealand?

AsiaTravel · Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:40 am

qf789 wrote:
BITRE our for March

PER-LHR
Inbound 1188 - 6 services average 198 passengers 83% LF
Outbound 1039 - 8 services average 129 passengers, 55% LF

It is unclear if this is all passengers or just those from/to PER

https://bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoi ... y_1803.pdf

Once the same report is out for April we can add the Melbourne London passengers which are also reported. I believe your numbers are only for pax between PER and LHR excluding those doing MEL-LHR.

xiaotung · Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:44 am

Sydscott wrote:

I'm having a deja vu moment big time! That's certainly not what I was expecting today but the logic of it is absolutely compelling for both carriers. Definitely a slap across the face for JB and Virgin and makes their competitive life just that more difficult.

This happened at a time when all the major airline CEO's (and Richard Quest) were about to land in SYD for the IATA annual meeting QF is hosting. VA will become the laughing stock in the whole industry.

log0008 · Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:56 am

AsiaTravel wrote:
qf789 wrote:
BITRE our for March

PER-LHR
Inbound 1188 - 6 services average 198 passengers 83% LF
Outbound 1039 - 8 services average 129 passengers, 55% LF

It is unclear if this is all passengers or just those from/to PER

https://bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoi ... y_1803.pdf

Once the same report is out for April we can add the Melbourne London passengers which are also reported. I believe your numbers are only for pax between PER and LHR excluding those doing MEL-LHR.

Correct, just like the previous services via Dubai, pax were split between Dubai and London thus load factors were not able to be obtained.

zkncj · Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:58 am

xiaotung wrote:
Sydscott wrote:

I'm having a deja vu moment big time! That's certainly not what I was expecting today but the logic of it is absolutely compelling for both carriers. Definitely a slap across the face for JB and Virgin and makes their competitive life just that more difficult.

This happened at a time when all the major airline CEO's (and Richard Quest) were about to land in SYD for the IATA annual meeting QF is hosting. VA will become the laughing stock in the whole industry.

Kind of ironic (Being that the Virgin Group in the past loved using dirty PR tacts) looks like they have just had the greatest PR nightmare.

A330freak · Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:18 am

Jetgo has entered voluntary administration. Limited charter operations will continue but RPT services will be suspended
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 8361082412

Qantas16 · Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:26 am

qf789 wrote:
BITRE our for March
https://bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoi ... y_1803.pdf

And, once again, QF's figures look a lot better than VAs! Whilst we all know load factor =/= yield, QF charges higher fares than VA (normally) and yet maintains significantly higher load factors...

Look at Australia to USA:

Qantas
Inbound: 55,555 pax carried @ 81.4% load factor
Outbound: 59,958 pax carried @ 82.6% load factor
Virgin
Inbound: 13,246 pax carried @ 57.5% load factor
Outbound: 14,837 pax carried @ 63.4% load factor

Hong Kong isn't much better...

Qantas16 · Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:28 am

A330freak wrote:
Jetgo had entered voluntary administration. Limited charter operations will continue but RPT services will be suspended
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 8361082412

What a shame... whilst their business model was clearly flawed, it was nice to see an airline try something different and I'm sad it hasn't worked out for them.

a320fan · Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:30 am

A330freak wrote:
Jetgo had entered voluntary administration. Limited charter operations will continue but RPT services will be suspended
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 8361082412

Oh sad. Perhaps too optimistic and aggressive with RPT growth in tiny markets. Unfortunately it seems there’s not much room in Australia for secondary markets to sustain operations

csturdiv · Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:44 am

I was hoping to see the E190 in their livery, I thought that is what they settled on for their proposed ops to Singapore with an ex-VA E190.

log0008 · Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:05 am

a320fan wrote:
A330freak wrote:
Jetgo had entered voluntary administration. Limited charter operations will continue but RPT services will be suspended
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 8361082412

Oh sad. Perhaps too optimistic and aggressive with RPT growth in tiny markets. Unfortunately it seems there’s not much room in Australia for secondary markets to sustain operations

The market is there but not with the governments anti-aviation policy

zkncj · Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:22 am

log0008 wrote:
a320fan wrote:
A330freak wrote:
Jetgo had entered voluntary administration. Limited charter operations will continue but RPT services will be suspended
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 8361082412

Oh sad. Perhaps too optimistic and aggressive with RPT growth in tiny markets. Unfortunately it seems there’s not much room in Australia for secondary markets to sustain operations

The market is there but not with the governments anti-aviation policy

And not now that QF/NZ have been allowed to join forces....

Just wait for it to be back to the day when NZ was the only major player in New Zealand, and QF was the only major player in Australia.

DeltaB717 · Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:52 am

log0008 wrote:
a320fan wrote:
A330freak wrote:
Jetgo had entered voluntary administration. Limited charter operations will continue but RPT services will be suspended
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 8361082412

Oh sad. Perhaps too optimistic and aggressive with RPT growth in tiny markets. Unfortunately it seems there’s not much room in Australia for secondary markets to sustain operations

The market is there but not with the governments anti-aviation policy

I'm sorry, what anti-aviation policy(ies) does the government have?

moa999 · Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:13 am

a7ala wrote:
I wonder what this means for jetstar in new Zealand?

I suspect nothing. It serves its purpose and has nowhere near as many routes as NZ, and the LCCs aren't setup for connections.

I'm sure most people paying for QF over the Tasman (particularly in J weren't thrilled about going into JQ)

dredgy · Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:14 am

A330freak wrote:
Jetgo has entered voluntary administration. Limited charter operations will continue but RPT services will be suspended
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 8361082412

Absolutely sucks, especially if it deters others from trying their routes, which usually had good load factors (great load factors on the service I regularly fly ROK-OOL, though bulk of the traffic seemed to originate in TSV).

But they were a small business and management was a little hodge-podge, they didn't have the scale for it to work out. I will be thinking of them whenever I spend 3 hours commuting from BNE to the Gold Coast.

qf2048 · Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:20 am

Wondering if we'll see Fly Corporate pick up the BNE-DBO-MEL route? they currently fly this rotation through OAG which is working well for them.

RE QF/NZ news how will this affect JQ regional in NZ?

qf789 · Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:21 am

QF23 SYD-BKK has returned to SYD with an engine problem

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-u ... 5771390187

Qantas16 · Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:38 am

qf2048 wrote:
Wondering if we'll see Fly Corporate pick up the BNE-DBO-MEL route? they currently fly this rotation through OAG which is working well for them.

Hopefully, DBO, WOL, ABX and WGA are all without significant services now so would be good to see ZL or FC fill in on some of them to MEB and BNE (OOL less likely).

mh124 · Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:01 am

qf789 wrote:
BITRE our for March

PER-LHR
Inbound 1188 - 6 services average 198 passengers 83% LF
Outbound 1039 - 8 services average 129 passengers, 55% LF

It is unclear if this is all passengers or just those from/to PER

https://bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoi ... y_1803.pdf

Yeah. Also - would passengers who fly from SYD-PER-LHR just get counted in the figures for Sydney to London ?
So do the residual Perth figures just = Perth originating plus those originating anywhere other than sydney or melbroune?

a7ala · Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:03 am

moa999 wrote:
a7ala wrote:
I wonder what this means for jetstar in new Zealand?

I suspect nothing. It serves its purpose and has nowhere near as many routes as NZ, and the LCCs aren't setup for connections.

I'm sure most people paying for QF over the Tasman (particularly in J weren't thrilled about going into JQ)

So on sectors like Dud-akl qf will be helping fill seats on the competing airline against their own jq?

zkncj · Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:10 am

a7ala wrote:
moa999 wrote:
a7ala wrote:
I wonder what this means for jetstar in new Zealand?

I suspect nothing. It serves its purpose and has nowhere near as many routes as NZ, and the LCCs aren't setup for connections.

I'm sure most people paying for QF over the Tasman (particularly in J weren't thrilled about going into JQ)

So on sectors like Dud-akl qf will be helping fill seats on the competing airline against their own jq?

Most of JQ's New Zealand routes are 1-3x daily and often not cover peak times on some routes, making them not ideal for connections.

Most main routes get an NZ service every 1-2hours.

DeltaB717 · Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:20 am

Sad news for Jetgo and it's staff and customers. I imagine the most likely to 'replace' it on many of those routes, if anyone does, would be Rex, FlyCorporate, FlyPelican and, far less likely, Alliance. Have to wonder if some of those routes become less attractive with the longer sector times of the likes of Sabb 340s and Metros, and whether that would hurt a new operator, but good luck to those cities.

qf789 wrote:
QF23 SYD-BKK has returned to SYD with an engine problem

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-u ... 5771390187

So pleased the Channel 9 chopper was following the aircraft... :roll:

jrfspa320 · Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:29 am

How come the QF1 is so late today (1/6/18)?

qf789 · Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:41 am

The majority of Scoot SIN-SYD service this month will be operated by a SQ 772, most likely due to RR engine issues

AirAsia X will operate second daily flight to PER for July

qf002 · Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:48 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
How come the QF1 is so late today (1/6/18)?

I don’t know, but it’s actually yesterday’s flight not today’s.

An767 · Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:57 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
How come the QF1 is so late today (1/6/18)?

If you look at Flight Radar and do a search on QF1 & QF2. They have had a horrible week.QF1 for yesterday 31/5 left at around 22.00 7 hours late

AN767

SYDSpotter · Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:37 am

mh124 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
BITRE our for March

PER-LHR
Inbound 1188 - 6 services average 198 passengers 83% LF
Outbound 1039 - 8 services average 129 passengers, 55% LF

It is unclear if this is all passengers or just those from/to PER

https://bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoi ... y_1803.pdf

Yeah. Also - would passengers who fly from SYD-PER-LHR just get counted in the figures for Sydney to London ?
So do the residual Perth figures just = Perth originating plus those originating anywhere other than sydney or melbroune?

I believe the above figures are purely PER-LHR and don't account for MEL-PER-LHR traffic.

If we use QR's CBR-SYD-DOH service as an example, CBR's numbers are separate and not lumped into SYD's SYD-DOH traffic numbers. In a similar vein, traffic from MEL-PER-LHR is reported within the MEL-LHR city pair traffic number rather than within PER-LHR.

I would therefore expect the April number reported for MEL-LHR (direct) to drop from 3000/4000 (Mar 2018) inbound/outbound given the reduction in capacity from an A380 to a 787.

Qantas16 · Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:45 am

SYDSpotter wrote:
If we use QR's CBR-SYD-DOH service as an example, CBR's numbers are separate and not lumped into SYD's SYD-DOH traffic numbers. In a similar vein, traffic from MEL-PER-LHR is reported within the MEL-LHR city pair traffic number rather than within PER-LHR.

On that note, QR carried (on average) between 32-38pax per flight on SYD-CBR-SYD.... and no cargo... that's one empty 77W. Must be a testament to how high-yielding the SYD market is that it's still worth it even with the expensive side trip.

getluv · Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:49 am

SYDSpotter wrote:
mh124 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
BITRE our for March

PER-LHR
Inbound 1188 - 6 services average 198 passengers 83% LF
Outbound 1039 - 8 services average 129 passengers, 55% LF

It is unclear if this is all passengers or just those from/to PER

https://bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoi ... y_1803.pdf

Yeah. Also - would passengers who fly from SYD-PER-LHR just get counted in the figures for Sydney to London ?
So do the residual Perth figures just = Perth originating plus those originating anywhere other than sydney or melbroune?

I believe the above figures are purely PER-LHR and don't account for MEL-PER-LHR traffic.

If we use QR's CBR-SYD-DOH service as an example, CBR's numbers are separate and not lumped into SYD's SYD-DOH traffic numbers. In a similar vein, traffic from MEL-PER-LHR is reported within the MEL-LHR city pair traffic number rather than within PER-LHR.

I would therefore expect the April number reported for MEL-LHR (direct) to drop from 3000/4000 (Mar 2018) inbound/outbound given the reduction in capacity from an A380 to a 787.

It would be hard to gauge the proper LF for the domestic segments of QF9/10.

eta unknown · Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:05 am

Qantas16 wrote:
SYDSpotter wrote:
If we use QR's CBR-SYD-DOH service as an example, CBR's numbers are separate and not lumped into SYD's SYD-DOH traffic numbers. In a similar vein, traffic from MEL-PER-LHR is reported within the MEL-LHR city pair traffic number rather than within PER-LHR.

On that note, QR carried (on average) between 32-38pax per flight on SYD-CBR-SYD.... and no cargo... that's one empty 77W. Must be a testament to how high-yielding the SYD market is that it's still worth it even with the expensive side trip.

I shudder to think what the fuel bill is on that sector...

SYDSpotter · Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:25 am

eta unknown wrote:
I shudder to think what the fuel bill is on that sector...

If QF's claims are correct, I shudder to think what landing fees CBR is charging QR :lol:

getluv · Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:27 am

SYDSpotter wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
I shudder to think what the fuel bill is on that sector...

If QF's claims are correct, I shudder to think what landing fees CBR is charging QR

I think CBR and the ACT Government would be subsidising quite a percentage of QR's costs just so they can be on a map.

Qantas16 · Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:02 am

getluv wrote:
SYDSpotter wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
I shudder to think what the fuel bill is on that sector...

If QF's claims are correct, I shudder to think what landing fees CBR is charging QR

I think CBR and the ACT Government would be subsidising quite a percentage of QR's costs just so they can be on a map.

I don't know about that... QR needs CBR more than CBR needs QR.

a7ala · Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:07 am

moa999 wrote:
a7ala wrote:
I wonder what this means for jetstar in new Zealand?

I suspect nothing. It serves its purpose and has nowhere near as many routes as NZ, and the LCCs aren't setup for connections.

I'm sure most people paying for QF over the Tasman (particularly in J weren't thrilled about going into JQ)

Do you think its a good strategy to help fill the planes of your competitor against your own subsidary?

What big j markets was qf missing out on outside of akl wlg chc zqn? I'm guessing 80% of new Zealand's population is within a couple of hours drive from these 4 airports.

Where's the upside for qf (the nz upside is far more obvious) particularly given they already have a player in the domestic nz market?

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