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planemanofnz
Posts: 3121
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:27 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
With this, a 359 and 789 combination will be sufficient. To add DEN, NYC and others will ease pressure on LAX, SFO and YVR too.

And LAS too - we know it’s on the airline’s radar. I believe first mover advantage for the Australasia-LAS market could be a winner.

I'm doubtful as to LAS - can LAS support a flight to Australasia, when it can't even sustain flights to major nations like France or Japan?

In fact, the only Asian services at LAS are HU to PEK and KE to ICN, neither of which appear to be high in frequency. Marginal at best?

After DEN and NYC, I'd pick SEA over LAS - it's more aligned to in-bound tourism (to Australasia) within NZ's North American strategy.

Anyhow, the point I'm making is that as NZ adds more cities, the pressure on existing cities lowers, mitigating the need for larger planes.

Cheers,

C.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:48 pm

Air NZ ATR 72-600 ZK-MVU (msn 1500) on delivery as SXI1810. Presently TZX-AAN near the Turkey / Iran border.

http://www.flightradar24.com/SXI1810/11aaf66f

PA515
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:54 pm

The other destination on the radar is SEA. This accesses that corner of the US but also has the benefit of taking pressure off YVR since they are 2 hours drive apart. SEA also has flights to Canadian ports too. 3pw would work nicely here.
EWR is the priority of course, and DEN is a possibility as a seasonal route. SEA could be year round.
57 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:21 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Are there any mitigating factors in favour of the 777?

Yes - cargo. Although heavier, the 777-X can carry more freight than the A350, and cargo is an important part of NZ's business.

Cheers,

C.


I'm not going to say you're right or wrong as anything that brings in $385M (2017) of operating revenue is important however you need to understand what's important to NZ's overall business including cargo over the next 10-15 years, that includes cargo contracts, strategy within the cargo business as well as the passenger network.

As an example, many people don't realize NZ transport's fresh salmon and lives bee's which isn't overly heavy or bulky but is extremely lucrative within the cargo business.

Pacific Rim has opened NZ to more direct ports around the pacific without cannibalizing existing routes. It's however also allowed continued passenger growth across the network whilst not intentionally growing traditional hubs like LAX and HKG etc. Routes like AKL-IAH have made NZ more accessible to Americans wishing to travel here from the South Eastern states of the USA but do we know what effects, if any this has had on cargo?

My point being, cargo does bring in a lot of operating revenue, this is just revenue though and isn't profit. Just like the passenger business it's about optimizing how efficiently and cost effectively you can carry your cargo whether it be big or heavy. Based on this as well as the passenger business NZ will choose the right plane for the airline.

That may mean, the cargo business "shrinks" by way of cargo revenue or how much cargo they carry (weight or size) but be more profitable with it. It may also mean they intentionally carry more cargo.

Time will tell as it's all part of deciding what plane is best for NZ.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:40 am

Zkpilot wrote:
The other destination on the radar is SEA. This accesses that corner of the US but also has the benefit of taking pressure off YVR since they are 2 hours drive apart. SEA also has flights to Canadian ports too. 3pw would work nicely here.

Yeah, I agree - two points:

1. If QF starts BNE - SEA (which, with BNE - ORD and BNE - DFW, is being considered), that will put off NZ starting SEA.
2. NZ could form a partnership with AS at SEA, and other Star Alliance partners like SQ have recently tied up with AS too.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:03 am

NZ6 wrote:
That may mean, the cargo business "shrinks" by way of cargo revenue ... It may also mean they intentionally carry more cargo.

You've made some very valid points, and I understand where you're coming from. IMO, NZ will want both quality and quantity of cargo, to ensure a sufficient diversification in the cargo revenue pool itself - high-end honey and salmon may be lucrative for now, but are comparatively susceptible to downturns, no? With exports growing strongly, and forecast to continue so with new FTA's (like the EU - NZ FTA, as well as the TPP with markets like Japan), cargo space will be increasingly important for NZ, and will give NZ new opportunities.

NZ6 wrote:
Pacific Rim has opened NZ to more direct ports around the pacific without cannibalizing existing routes.

Do we still call it 'Pacific Rim' these days, with places like ORD being launched? In any event, all of these new services have removed some of the demand that would have been seen out of the bigger ports - like LAX (albeit they have created new demand too). This means that the need for larger planes at NZ is arguably decreasing, which may work in favour of the 359. At the same time, New Zealand isn't a frequency-sensitive destination, so for some of the bulkier destinations like LAX (and SFO?), it makes more sense to fly bigger aeroplanes.

Interesting times!

Cheers,

C.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:38 am

planemanofnz wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
That may mean, the cargo business "shrinks" by way of cargo revenue ... It may also mean they intentionally carry more cargo.

You've made some very valid points, and I understand where you're coming from. IMO, NZ will want both quality and quantity of cargo, to ensure a sufficient diversification in the cargo revenue pool itself - high-end honey and salmon may be lucrative for now, but are comparatively susceptible to downturns, no? With exports growing strongly, and forecast to continue so with new FTA's (like the EU - NZ FTA, as well as the TPP with markets like Japan), cargo space will be increasingly important for NZ, and will give NZ new opportunities.

NZ6 wrote:
Pacific Rim has opened NZ to more direct ports around the pacific without cannibalizing existing routes.

Do we still call it 'Pacific Rim' these days, with places like ORD being launched? In any event, all of these new services have removed some of the demand that would have been seen out of the bigger ports - like LAX (albeit they have created new demand too). This means that the need for larger planes at NZ is arguably decreasing, which may work in favour of the 359. At the same time, New Zealand isn't a frequency-sensitive destination, so for some of the bulkier destinations like LAX (and SFO?), it makes more sense to fly bigger aeroplanes.

Interesting times!

Cheers,

C.


2017 Cargo Revenue: $335m vs Passenger Revenue $4,376m so Cargo revenue is about 7% of the passenger revenue, again it's revenue not profit and cargo is still a very valuable and essential part of the business but you need to make sure you get the passenger deck piece right.

Yeah absolutely you can call it 'Pacific Rim', it's origins were in a project kicked off by Christopher Luxon before he became CEO. It had an internal project name as was only labelled as a 'Pacific Rim' strategy when it was spoken about publicly. Their focus was now on single leg flying to destinations bordering the pacific from NZ, this was the end of HKG-LON and as we know LAX-LHR was close to being axed also. Essentially it was the end of any international multi leg flying except AKL-RAR-LAX which is manipulated internally to really be two different flights anyway.

It doesn't mean you need to be a Pacific coastal city. I mean CHC-PER wouldn't exist, EZE and the desire to grow of South America would be in question, IAH would also be against this 'strategy' not just ORD.

As for aircraft, IAH hasn't negatively effected LAX, don't forget SFO and YVR have also seen growth over the last decade. As part of their fleet planning, business risk etc does NZ want to pull back on ASK's ex LAX and keep load factor at the mid 80's year round but instead increase the RASK's ex LAX. This way the can scale back if needed but also add capacity if QF,AA, DL, VA, BA etc decide to try enter...

It's a massive investment and holds significant business risk so you've got to get it right.

It also been spoken as a 772 replacement but the 77W will also be next in line so that needs to be considered.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:43 am

NZ6 wrote:
2017 Cargo Revenue: $335m vs Passenger Revenue $4,376m so Cargo revenue is about 7% of the passenger revenue, again it's revenue not profit and cargo is still a very valuable and essential part of the business but you need to make sure you get the passenger deck piece right.

Very valid post - important, but not the dominant factor, I agree. Anyhow, it'll be interesting to see what NZ ends up ordering!

Cheers,

C.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:59 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
The other destination on the radar is SEA. This accesses that corner of the US but also has the benefit of taking pressure off YVR since they are 2 hours drive apart. SEA also has flights to Canadian ports too. 3pw would work nicely here.

Yeah, I agree - two points:

1. If QF starts BNE - SEA (which, with BNE - ORD and BNE - DFW, is being considered), that will put off NZ starting SEA.
2. NZ could form a partnership with AS at SEA, and other Star Alliance partners like SQ have recently tied up with AS too.

Cheers,

C.


I don't think QF starting SEA would put NZ off (unless - they have an new under the table gentlmens agreement). In the past NZ/QF have been pretty willing to compete with each other on the North American routes.

AKL-SEA should be able to work longer term, although would probably require local market development in that region within the US. With the current New Zealand goverment wanting to introduce an visitor tax got luck with that.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:15 am

It's clear that many here think there may be good reasons for NZ to consider SEA, but there's been no announcement to my knowledge that SEA has even been in the mix for consideration by the airline itself. At the same time, other ports including LAS, DEN, NYC (presumably EWR), GRU and even GIG have been mentioned as being on the radar. So while I'm not opposed to SEA by any means, from what we actually know it doesn't appear to rank as highly in the airline's future plans as these others appear to.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:44 am

I've done a bit of analysis on some of the "monopoly" Transtasman routes, using the BITRE statistics, and it shows up some interesting data:

Firstly, NZ flights:

CHC-PER has been hovering around the 14,000 two-way pax for the four month season since the service began. Until this year, that is, when there has been a marked uptick. Although the April flights are not yet loaded into BITRE, the Jan-March figures show an improvement of more than 20% over the previous four years. However, it still only represents a 65% LF, so the chances of a third weekly flight must be some way in the future.

AKL-MCY has shown steady pax growth since it began in July 2012. There was a spike in summer 2015-16 when a summer seasonal service operated for a couple of months, but that hasn't been repeated since. The steady (though unspectacular) growth in the winter months has subsequently continued.

AKL-CNS For comparative purposes, I've excluded the Dec 2016-Dec 2018 period when PR was also on the route. Otherwise, it appears that the route peaked at 78,000 two-way pax in 2012, with passenger volumes declining to 31,000 pax, less than half the peak, by the 2015 calendar year. Too soon to tell what the loadings will look like post-PR.

AKL-NLK Volumes were around 10-11,000 two way pax every year until the service terminated. Stagnant.

ROT-SYD Again, almost the whole time the service operated, two-way pax were around 20-21,000 per year. No growth at all.

AKL-ADL Slow but unspectacular growth from 2010 to the present, with around 77,000 two-way pax in the most recent year. There was a big spike in 2014 - why would that have been? - but pax numbers fell back in 2015 to the "normal" trending growth. There does not seem to have been any significant impact from the introduction of wide-bodies on the route.

RAR-SYD Not strictly Transtasman, but the figures are interesting nevertheless. The first full year of operation was 2012, when 15,000 two-way pax were carried. By CY 2017 the numbers had grown to 22,000, a full 50% increase. The first three months of 2018 show a spectacular 35%-ish increase over the same months in 2017. Load factors are still only around 76% this year, but the growth has to be very encouraging.

Now, VA's sole monopoly route:

DUD-BNE Looks very unhealthy to me - numbers have steadily declined from 55,000 two-way pax in 2010 to 44,000 in 2017. The first few months of 2018 show a further deterioration of a few per cent over 2017.

And JetStar's routes:

WLG-OOL Slight annual growth each year from 2015 to the present; the last full year, 2017, had 47,000 two-way pax.

ZQN-OOL Slow but steady growth each year from 2015 to the present; pax numbers are slightly below the WLG-OOL flights which started at the same time, but are catching up.

And finally, SQ:

WLG-CBR Not a big dataset, as the route operated only for 19 months. However, the numbers of two-way pax in 2017 were around 31,000, and except for March 2018, the pax numbers for each month compared with the same month in the previous year were 10-65% higher, with most months gaining around 25% over the previous year. Over the course of 2017, there were almost exactly 300 pax/week average each way. I still believe that the demand from AKL has to be at least double that from WLG, and 600 AKL pax each way each week would surely justify at least four flights a week by A320 for a year round average 89% LF.

So all in all, from NZ's point of view I take from this that CHC-PER and RAR-SYD are doing well, of late, but come off a low base that means that frequency upgrades may not be imminent. AKL-MCY just trundles on, as does AKL-ADL. However, AKL-CNS must be a bit of a worry (perhaps a downgrading to all A320-operation?), and we should not expect to see AKL-NLK or ROT-SYD back again unless circumstances change dramatically. WLG-OOL might conceivably attract NZ in competition with JQ, but I'd imagine that ZQN-OOL is out because I suspect many of the pax are Asian visitors arriving at OOL and doing a whistle-stop two-country tour on JQ metal. And while I wouldn't necessarily expect to see NZ on WLG-CBR (though it could support a 2x weekly A320 at very decent LFs, going by SQ's experience), the opportunity has to be there for AKL-CBR, the new QF codeshare deal notwithstanding.

And if current trends continue, DUD-BNE has to be a candidate for the chop, especially if VA's financial woes continue.

Of course, none of this says anything about yield on any of these routes, which is info that BITRE obviously does not collect.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:42 pm

Further to above which I couldn't delete and re-send - I mean that SEA has been discussed in the forum but hasn't been announced as on the list by NZ.
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juliusg
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:47 pm

NZ - V- QF on USA: Apologies if this has been done here recently before. Just flew NZ from LAX, they have 2 x 777-300, 1 x 777-200 (via Raratonga), 1 x San Fran, 1 x Vancouver and 1 x Houston here at Auckland this morning. That must come close to matching QF in capacity? Pretty good numbers I think!

Also, I'm still loving the biz seat / bed, most comfortable sleeps I ever have, and I fly many carriers in J.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:28 am

Yes I agree the sleeping bed is comfy on NZ. The seat leaves something to be desired particularly the awkwardness of the set up on the 787. But overall it isn't a bad product, just not up there with the best as we have discussed previously in this forum and that is why NZ are now looking at a new business product. Really hope the comfort factor for sleeping is retained.
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NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:42 am

juliusg wrote:
Also, I'm still loving the biz seat / bed, most comfortable sleeps I ever have, and I fly many carriers in J.


Interesting, it's been dubbed outdated and a inferior hard product on here within the last month.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:22 am

NZ6 wrote:
juliusg wrote:
Also, I'm still loving the biz seat / bed, most comfortable sleeps I ever have, and I fly many carriers in J.


Interesting, it's been dubbed outdated and a inferior hard product on here within the last month.

I agree with others on the sleeping point - the bed is amazing, as is the memory foam mattress. In that specific measure, NZ is above-average.

However, on most other components of the hard product, such as privacy, seat versatility and others, objectively speaking, it is below-average.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:29 am

DavidByrne wrote:
DUD-BNE Looks very unhealthy to me - numbers have steadily declined from 55,000 two-way pax in 2010 to 44,000 in 2017. The first few months of 2018 show a further deterioration of a few per cent over 2017.

And if current trends continue, DUD-BNE has to be a candidate for the chop, especially if VA's financial woes continue.

Interesting - what could the decline be attributable to? DUD's economy has population has grown - so, is it cheaper one-stop options killing this route? Or, the fact that many in DUD who use this route are one-time users, and after having done BNE, want to try somewhere new?

VA does have options for this route, including i) making it seasonal instead of year-round, ii) making it a TT service instead, given, among other factors, DUD hardly seems to require a Business Class offering, and iii) dropping BNE in favour of elsewhere, like OOL, SYD or RAR.

I do hope that they continue to make a go of DUD, particularly given the growth that others seem able to achieve in the DUD market (particularly NZ, but also JQ). Ultimately, it would be sad to see yet another New Zealand airport lose international service, after 20 odd years or so.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:32 am

Does anyone know why HX is only extending its code to VA's SYD - AKL / ZQN flights, and not SYD - WLG / CHC?

See: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... july-2018/.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:38 am

DavidByrne wrote:
It's clear that many here think there may be good reasons for NZ to consider SEA, but there's been no announcement to my knowledge that SEA has even been in the mix for consideration by the airline itself.

I wouldn't read too much into those prior comments - for example, in the last few years regarding its Greater China strategy, NZ executives talked about potentially launching CTU, but now, we've ended up with TPE and not CTU in NZ's Greater China network.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:57 am

It's great to see the MH 332's at AKL now - hopefully this gives them a bit of a boost here, in light of the 333 being restricted on AKL - KUL.

Separately, MH thinks there's a case for Wi-Fi on its AKL service, and is planning to use one of its upgraded 332's here, with that offering.

See:
- https://www.ausbt.com.au/malaysia-airli ... obal-plans.
- http://www.instagram.com/nzdn_spotting.

Image

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:03 am

PPQ is now weighing subsidising 3C on an AKL - PPQ service; "The airport had helped Air Chathams by giving it a free lease for the first year of service, then a 33 percent discount on the lease previously paid by Air New Zealand, for another two years."

If NZ had got this treatment, would it have kept AKL - PPQ? Should NZ have asked for such treatment prior to axing PPQ / should PPQ have offered this treatment to NZ? In any event, this offer seems to be not enough for 3C; they want RDF help too.

See: https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national ... nd-service.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:11 am

It's a shame that the MOT is putting off work at WHK, preventing 3C from using its SAAB aircraft there - the latest:

"A Supreme Court ruling over Wellington Airport requires the Runway End Safety Areas at Whakatane Airport to be extended before it can be used by larger aircraft. The Whakatane District Council’s has called and accepted a tender for the work, but needs approval from its joint venture partner the Ministry of Transport. The Ministry hasn't given approval, nor has it paid its half-share of other airport works including a major runway lighting grade or past operating losses. The council’s been advised nothing’s going to happen this financial year but to keep pressing the Ministry for approval."

See: http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.com/2018/06/ ... atane.html.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:19 am

With JB soon to be gone from VA (in the next 18 months), what do people think this means for VA's presence in New Zealand?

- On the one hand, JB might decide he has nothing to lose, and, seeking retribution against Luxon, he makes VA go for broke in New Zealand
- On the other hand, once JB is gone, we could see the new management pull VA from New Zealand completely, to try and minimise VA's loss

See: https://www.ausbt.com.au/john-borghetti ... ource=hero.

Some comments:

- The HNA Group don't really need a code-share to here on VA - they can use their own planes directly to AKL, and hub through SZX etc
- The other shareholders, like EY and SQ can code-share on NZ, or fly here themselves - partners like AZ could also code-share on NZ
- The big implication from a New Zealand VA withdrawal will be on DL - they can't really code on NZ or QF, so would have to launch AKL

Cheers,

C.
 
A330NZ
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:41 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Does anyone know why HX is only extending its code to VA's SYD - AKL / ZQN flights, and not SYD - WLG / CHC?

See: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... july-2018/.

Cheers,

C.


I know that CHC-SYD is now a seasonal service for VA, and doesn't return until the end of October. The codeshares in the article all start next month - so that might explain why. Also if I recall correctly, VA does not yet operate WLG-SYD, though will commence services at the end of the October as well
 
nz2
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:42 am

Does anybody know why the status points indicator no longer displays when making a booking? It was handy to see instantly what you would be earning at one fare level versus another. Thanks
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:12 am

planemanofnz wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
It's clear that many here think there may be good reasons for NZ to consider SEA, but there's been no announcement to my knowledge that SEA has even been in the mix for consideration by the airline itself.

I wouldn't read too much into those prior comments - for example, in the last few years regarding its Greater China strategy, NZ executives talked about potentially launching CTU, but now, we've ended up with TPE and not CTU in NZ's Greater China network.

True that - never say never. But NZ seems to have signalled its intentions in the Americas pretty clearly in the past, so I'd still put thoughts of SEA on the back burner for the interim.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:01 am

Air NZ 787-9 ZK-NZG had an engine test on Sunday morning and is due back in service on Thursday.

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zk-nzg

PA515
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:15 am

I don’t have a link but Air NZ have confirmed that they are going ahead with the building of Hanger 4. It will be the largest hanger able to completely take aircraft inside (currently tails often stick out) and will be able to jack up aircraft.
Expected to cost $70m and be able to cope until 2035
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Kashmon
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:07 am

planemanofnz wrote:
With JB soon to be gone from VA (in the next 18 months), what do people think this means for VA's presence in New Zealand?

- On the one hand, JB might decide he has nothing to lose, and, seeking retribution against Luxon, he makes VA go for broke in New Zealand
- On the other hand, once JB is gone, we could see the new management pull VA from New Zealand completely, to try and minimise VA's loss

See: https://www.ausbt.com.au/john-borghetti ... ource=hero.

Some comments:

- The HNA Group don't really need a code-share to here on VA - they can use their own planes directly to AKL, and hub through SZX etc
- The other shareholders, like EY and SQ can code-share on NZ, or fly here themselves - partners like AZ could also code-share on NZ
- The big implication from a New Zealand VA withdrawal will be on DL - they can't really code on NZ or QF, so would have to launch AKL

Cheers,

C.


this is literally the perfect time for QF and NZ to establish monopolies in their markets....

VA is dying.
 
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LamboAston
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:20 am

planemanofnz wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
DUD-BNE Looks very unhealthy to me - numbers have steadily declined from 55,000 two-way pax in 2010 to 44,000 in 2017. The first few months of 2018 show a further deterioration of a few per cent over 2017.

And if current trends continue, DUD-BNE has to be a candidate for the chop, especially if VA's financial woes continue.

Interesting - what could the decline be attributable to? DUD's economy has population has grown - so, is it cheaper one-stop options killing this route? Or, the fact that many in DUD who use this route are one-time users, and after having done BNE, want to try somewhere new?

VA does have options for this route, including i) making it seasonal instead of year-round, ii) making it a TT service instead, given, among other factors, DUD hardly seems to require a Business Class offering, and iii) dropping BNE in favour of elsewhere, like OOL, SYD or RAR.

I do hope that they continue to make a go of DUD, particularly given the growth that others seem able to achieve in the DUD market (particularly NZ, but also JQ). Ultimately, it would be sad to see yet another New Zealand airport lose international service, after 20 odd years or so.

Cheers,

C.

As I'm from Dunedin, VA has a poor reputation here, and made its timing from brilliant to diabolical, with 11:40pm arrival and 7:45am departure now. Most people go via CHC on NZ now, and some on JQ.
AS350, B733/4/7/8, B744/8, B762/3, B77E/L/W, B789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A346, A380, AT73/5/6, Q300, Q400, CR2/7, E190, S340, B1900C/D, E110 (E for epic)
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LamboAston
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:21 am

planemanofnz wrote:
It's great to see the MH 332's at AKL now - hopefully this gives them a bit of a boost here, in light of the 333 being restricted on AKL - KUL.

Separately, MH thinks there's a case for Wi-Fi on its AKL service, and is planning to use one of its upgraded 332's here, with that offering.

See:
- https://www.ausbt.com.au/malaysia-airli ... obal-plans.
- http://www.instagram.com/nzdn_spotting.

Image

Cheers,

C.

Thanks for using my shot. I really got lucky with that coming in while I was there.
AS350, B733/4/7/8, B744/8, B762/3, B77E/L/W, B789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A346, A380, AT73/5/6, Q300, Q400, CR2/7, E190, S340, B1900C/D, E110 (E for epic)
NZ, EK, QF, SQ, UA, US, CO, FZ, FR, U2, BA, VA, VS, MH, EI, EY, LH, EN, NM, TG, GZ
 
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LamboAston
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:32 am

PA515 wrote:
Air NZ 787-9 ZK-NZG had an engine test on Sunday morning and is due back in service on Thursday.

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zk-nzg

PA515

When I was by the hangar around 11am, it was in there with doors shut. It was towed across at 10am back to the hangar - not taxiing back to the hangar.

Image
AS350, B733/4/7/8, B744/8, B762/3, B77E/L/W, B789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A346, A380, AT73/5/6, Q300, Q400, CR2/7, E190, S340, B1900C/D, E110 (E for epic)
NZ, EK, QF, SQ, UA, US, CO, FZ, FR, U2, BA, VA, VS, MH, EI, EY, LH, EN, NM, TG, GZ
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 3121
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:46 am

LamboAston wrote:
Thanks for using my shot. I really got lucky with that coming in while I was there.

I am a big fan of your shots, and follow you! Please keep the awesome photos coming!

LamboAston wrote:
As I'm from Dunedin, VA has a poor reputation here, and made its timing from brilliant to diabolical, with 11:40pm arrival and 7:45am departure now. Most people go via CHC on NZ now, and some on JQ.

Aren't those times good for Dunedin people going on holiday, to maximise time in BNE?

Separately - I assume the crew overnights in DUD (kinda cool). Do you know where at?

Cheers,

C.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:04 am

Zkpilot wrote:
I don’t have a link but Air NZ have confirmed that they are going ahead with the building of Hanger 4. It will be the largest hanger able to completely take aircraft inside (currently tails often stick out) and will be able to jack up aircraft.
Expected to cost $70m and be able to cope until 2035


Interesting, something to do with a new type of aircraft? They don’t do any heavy maintenance though so interesting to hear.?
 
777ER
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:34 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
I don’t have a link but Air NZ have confirmed that they are going ahead with the building of Hanger 4. It will be the largest hanger able to completely take aircraft inside (currently tails often stick out) and will be able to jack up aircraft.
Expected to cost $70m and be able to cope until 2035


Interesting, something to do with a new type of aircraft? They don’t do any heavy maintenance though so interesting to hear.?

Maybe NZ are expecting the majority of the Dreamliners to become hanger queens........ :P
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:04 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
I don’t have a link but Air NZ have confirmed that they are going ahead with the building of Hanger 4. It will be the largest hanger able to completely take aircraft inside (currently tails often stick out) and will be able to jack up aircraft.
Expected to cost $70m and be able to cope until 2035


Interesting, something to do with a new type of aircraft? They don’t do any heavy maintenance though so interesting to hear.?

Well I’d imagine it would be able to take all types of A350 and 77X. Probably able to take an A380 too if really needed (not that NZ would ever get them). With a growing fleet (and other airlines needing emergency maintenance) there is more need for hanger space I guess.
57 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
DavidJ08
Posts: 109
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:40 am

LamboAston wrote:
When I was by the hangar around 11am, it was in there with doors shut. It was towed across at 10am back to the hangar - not taxiing back to the hangar.

I have a feeling (haven't fact checked though) that when they go for engine tests the aircraft is towed there and back anyways - pretty sure engineers aren't permitted to taxi an aircraft (pretty sure you'd have to be a pilot to do that - and steering and turning those big birds on the ground is pretty tricky anyways).

But anyways, good spotting and great shots!
 
SpoonNZ
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:12 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
Aren't those times good for Dunedin people going on holiday, to maximise time in BNE?

Separately - I assume the crew overnights in DUD (kinda cool). Do you know where at?


I think they’re pretty good times. Far better than, for example, JQ’s MEL-CHC overnight flight.

Not 100% sure but I think the Scenic Hotel Southern Cross (I.e. the Casino)
 
ZKOAB
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:25 pm

PA515 wrote:
Air NZ ATR 72-600 ZK-MVU (msn 1500) on delivery as SXI1810. Presently TZX-AAN near the Turkey / Iran border.

http://www.flightradar24.com/SXI1810/11aaf66f

PA515


Great news. Will there be any more delivered before the end of the year?
Last info I recall was maybe 1 or 2..
 
NYKiwi
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:41 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:33 pm

Hi all......first post, but long time lurker of the site.

Question about the NZ 787, as I am flying home through Houston shortly. I noticed that that economy cabin has a pitch of 32" (33" for the couch seats) but only 31" in the rear section, but notices the majority of the seats open are in the rear. As I am 1.94cm, I defiantly don't want to be crammed at the back but wanted to see if anyone has flown them and has any recommendations. Or if they leave some seats open due to restrictions, which I doubt but wanted to ask.

I have never flown the 787, but I must say I miss the sets of 2 seats down the back on the 777 that I have used for years but the 787 does not have these. Thanks.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:49 pm

Where will the new hanger go? Not like there is a huge amount of room. Will the local road (Laurance Stevens Ave) be realigned at the bend to make room for the new facility? Thoughts? Space is getting tight.
Plane mad!
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:59 pm

LamboAston wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
It's great to see the MH 332's at AKL now - hopefully this gives them a bit of a boost here, in light of the 333 being restricted on AKL - KUL.

Separately, MH thinks there's a case for Wi-Fi on its AKL service, and is planning to use one of its upgraded 332's here, with that offering.

See:
- https://www.ausbt.com.au/malaysia-airli ... obal-plans.
- http://www.instagram.com/nzdn_spotting.

Image

Cheers,

C.

Thanks for using my shot. I really got lucky with that coming in while I was there.


This has got to be good news for AKL. Flatbeds with wifi along more spacious cabin than the A333. Yields are up at MH and on target but rising fuel prices are going to dent results second half of the year. Let's hope they can pick up some freight to make the service a success.
Plane mad!
 
zkeoj
Posts: 1107
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:59 pm

NYKiwi wrote:
Hi all......first post, but long time lurker of the site.

Question about the NZ 787, as I am flying home through Houston shortly. I noticed that that economy cabin has a pitch of 32" (33" for the couch seats) but only 31" in the rear section, but notices the majority of the seats open are in the rear. As I am 1.94cm, I defiantly don't want to be crammed at the back but wanted to see if anyone has flown them and has any recommendations. Or if they leave some seats open due to restrictions, which I doubt but wanted to ask.

I have never flown the 787, but I must say I miss the sets of 2 seats down the back on the 777 that I have used for years but the 787 does not have these. Thanks.


I have usually been in the SkyCouch rows, and they were ok. Overall, I find the 787s better than the 777s, but that might be just a subjective feeling. I assume, the reasons for the front Y-cabin not open as much are a) They don't want to take single travellers to occupy SkyCouch seats, so that they can still sell the SkyCouch seats as such (and not as "regular" seats); and b) NZ Gold and Gold Elite can pre-select those seats (e.g., I can almost always get 37A).

I have a follow-up question: Although the 787s don't have the 2-seaters in the back, NZ always blocks off the window seats of the last few rows - is there a specific reason for that, i.e. do they stay free unless the flight is fully booked?

Cheers
micha
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:04 pm

BTW nice livery for the inaugural A332 service :) and nice photo thank you!
Plane mad!
 
PA515
Posts: 1288
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:10 pm

ZKOAB wrote:
PA515 wrote:
Air NZ ATR 72-600 ZK-MVU (msn 1500) on delivery as SXI1810. Presently TZX-AAN near the Turkey / Iran border.

http://www.flightradar24.com/SXI1810/11aaf66f

PA515


Great news. Will there be any more delivered before the end of the year?
Last info I recall was maybe 1 or 2..

There are four ATR 72-600s due between 01 Jul 2018 and 30 Jun 2019. The next one is ZK-MVV (msn 1507) spotted in primer at TLS (Toulouse) on 21 May 2018, so delivery should be next month.
http://www.digitalairliners.com/categor ... otter-log/

Don't know when the other three are due but probably two more in 2018. ZK-MCB was due to leave in Jun 2018, ZK-MCY in Jul 2018 and ZK-MCU in Nov 2018. ZK-MCP appears to have been sold to Novoair (VQ) and will probably go within the next few months.

Also, the first Air NZ A321NEO (msn 8496) fuselage section was spotted in Hangar 260 at XFW (Finkenwerder) on 09 Jun 2018, delivery in Sep 2018.
http://www.digitalairliners.com/categor ... otter-log/

The second A321NEO (msn 8542) and the third (msn 8573) should be delivered by Dec 2018. Nothing on the first A320NEO due next month, most likely assembled in TLS but could be XFW.

PA515
 
PA515
Posts: 1288
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:49 pm

PA515 wrote:
Also, the first Air NZ A321NEO (msn 8496) fuselage section was spotted in Hangar 260 at XFW (Finkenwerder) on 09 Jun 2018, delivery in Sep 2018.
http://www.digitalairliners.com/categor ... otter-log/

The second A321NEO (msn 8542) and the third (msn 8573) should be delivered by Dec 2018. Nothing on the first A320NEO due next month, most likely assembled in TLS but could be XFW.


Have seen a comment elsewhere that the first A320NEO will not be delivered until 2019. The 01 June 2017 Investor Day presentation said July 2018.

PA515
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6060
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:54 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
I don’t have a link but Air NZ have confirmed that they are going ahead with the building of Hanger 4. It will be the largest hanger able to completely take aircraft inside (currently tails often stick out) and will be able to jack up aircraft.
Expected to cost $70m and be able to cope until 2035


Interesting, something to do with a new type of aircraft? They don’t do any heavy maintenance though so interesting to hear.?

Well I’d imagine it would be able to take all types of A350 and 77X. Probably able to take an A380 too if really needed (not that NZ would ever get them). With a growing fleet (and other airlines needing emergency maintenance) there is more need for hanger space I guess.


Interesting stuff. I agree it will probably be large enough for an A380 as you say not that NZ will order then
 
NZ6
Posts: 402
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:52 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
PPQ is now weighing subsidising 3C on an AKL - PPQ service; "The airport had helped Air Chathams by giving it a free lease for the first year of service, then a 33 percent discount on the lease previously paid by Air New Zealand, for another two years."

If NZ had got this treatment, would it have kept AKL - PPQ? Should NZ have asked for such treatment prior to axing PPQ / should PPQ have offered this treatment to NZ? In any event, this offer seems to be not enough for 3C; they want RDF help too.

See: https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national ... nd-service.

Cheers,

C.


I asked this question when NZ pulled out.

What I would like to know is what's holding 3C up? is it directly the associated airport costs which is why they're negotiating for discounts etc or are they simply looking/needing to find a way to reduce operating expense due to their predicted average fare?

I'm speculating but am confident they've hit the same issue NZ did, that being, there is demand from PPQ however passengers aren't willing to pay the required fare levels to make it viable when WLG is down the road and 4 times cheaper (literally). Therefore 3C is needing a way to reduce operating cost elsewhere. With fuel prices going up I'm not confident we'll see this service anytime soon but could be wrong.

It will also be interesting to see what NZ has to say if there were ever high level conversations around subsidies etc, this includes conversations prior to it's operation, during as well as post operations. I'd imagine the rate payers of PPQ would prefer they subsidize NZ with it's full suit of products (lounges, connections, air-points etc etc) vs 3C. Hypothetically if local government rejected NZ but are now left with subsidizing 3C as the only willing carrier how negatively will this reflect on council?

However these conversations may never have occurred.
 
NZ6
Posts: 402
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:02 pm

nz2 wrote:
Does anybody know why the status points indicator no longer displays when making a booking? It was handy to see instantly what you would be earning at one fare level versus another. Thanks


Are you expanding the purple "View Details" section at the top?

What are you trying to book because it still works.
 
NZ6
Posts: 402
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:58 pm

I defend a lot of what NZ do but have said before I don't agree with everything they do, I've decided to share one of the areas where I believe NZ fails.

That is around the North American routes. Well within the next decade we'll see a high number of ultra long haul routes from Australia deep into the USA. Not just the pitched SYD-NYC but you'll likely see routes like MEL-DFW, SYD-MIA, PER-LAX etc..

NZ launched IAH and it was nothing but success from day 1, in fact the route was at the year 5 plan within 18 months. ORD is commencing this year and is tracking very well also.

NZ have very strong foundations in LAX and SFO, you can almost include IAH in that also. Australia supplements North America nicely and will hopefully continue to do so.

My issue or concern has been around NZ's speed to access Eastern North America given their geographical advantage, IAH has been up for a long time. ORD should be active already, ideally NZ would be established in NYC by 2020 but that won't happen.

Typically Kiwi's don't access the USA via Australia but by 2025-2030 you may be more then likely be able access you end point in the States direct from Australia so you have risk of a u-turn in that Australian feed.

Imagine, CHC-SYD-MIA vs CHC-AKL-LAX-MIA or AKL-LAX-NYC v AKL-SYD-NYC

And will Australians do

MEL-AKL-IAH vs MEL-DFW-IAH?

Just a talking point, obviously NZ's fleet etc are restrictions and you don't want to grow too quick either given the business risk but it's something if I was CEO would focus more on.

Not suggesting for second this is how you plan routes but knowing how many American's visit NZ and the trade relationship between both countries don't you think this map looks thin over the states? Look at Asia in compasison

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