UPDATED: Delta announces JFK-BOM

LAXintl · Thu May 24, 2018 3:29 pm

Delta Air Lines says it will begin nonstop flights between the US and Mumbai, India, next year. This move will mark a return to India for Delta from where it withdrew in 2015 citing low profitability.

"It is exciting to be able to announce Delta's return to India from the U.S. as part of our vision to expand Delta's reach internationally," said Delta CEO Ed Bastian. "We are thankful to the president for taking real action to enforce our Open Skies trade deals, which made this new service possible. We are looking forward to providing customers in the U.S. and India with Delta's famously reliable, customer-focused service operated by the best employees in the industry."

The service is subject to government approval; full schedule details will be announced later this year.

Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop from the U.S. in 2019
https://news.delta.com/delta-serve-mumb ... op-us-2019

=

BOM route obviously would link up with Jet Airways hub

Though I think its pretty childish to use much of the press release to continue to bash the ME3. DL needs to move beyond.

klakzky123 · Thu May 24, 2018 3:32 pm

Presumably JFK and maybe ATL? Agree on DL needing to stop talking about the ME3.

777Mech · Thu May 24, 2018 3:40 pm

klakzky123 wrote:
Presumably JFK and maybe ATL? Agree on DL needing to stop talking about the ME3.

In the celebration at the museum, Ed stated it would be from one of the east coast hubs. I'm assuming it would be JFK or ATL. Much to the dismay of the DTW crowd.

enilria · Thu May 24, 2018 3:40 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Delta Air Lines says it will begin nonstop flights between the US and Mumbai, India, next year. This move will mark a return to India for Delta from where it withdrew in 2015 citing low profitability.

"It is exciting to be able to announce Delta's return to India from the U.S. as part of our vision to expand Delta's reach internationally," said Delta CEO Ed Bastian. "We are thankful to the president for taking real action to enforce our Open Skies trade deals, which made this new service possible. We are looking forward to providing customers in the U.S. and India with Delta's famously reliable, customer-focused service operated by the best employees in the industry."

The service is subject to government approval; full schedule details will be announced later this year.

Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop from the U.S. in 2019
https://news.delta.com/delta-serve-mumb ... op-us-2019

=

BOM route obviously would link up with Jet Airways hub

Though I think its pretty childish to use much of the press release to continue to bash the ME3. DL needs to move beyond.

They last stopped flying USA-BOM last time before the ME3 were even big.

Flighty · Thu May 24, 2018 3:41 pm

I'll bite. What did Trump do, exactly? And how will it cure the $500 each way pricing in this market

luckyone · Thu May 24, 2018 3:45 pm

Flighty wrote:
I'll bite. What did Trump do, exactly? And how will it cure the $500 each way pricing in this market

It may not cure it at all. It's possible that this is necessary from a network standpoint to the degree where Delta will accept some loss to keep contract customers happy. Someone who knows more about aircraft depreciation and utilization may also be able to comment whether or not the years since they last had a nonstop service have resulted in better costs (ie. are the 777s now paid down/off enough that they can be deployed on a route like this, or do the A350s make this more feasible?).

cokepopper · Thu May 24, 2018 3:45 pm

I’m assuming JFK service. If so, will it be back on the LR or can the A350 make it?

enilria · Thu May 24, 2018 3:50 pm

Flighty wrote:
I'll bite. What did Trump do, exactly? And how will it cure the $500 each way pricing in this market

What the Administration did was produce what is basically a fake deal that forced DL into capitulation, because their issues were equally fake.

So basically they left the USA-India non-stop market over a decade ago and expected everybody else would “save them a spot”? It’s all nonsense.

A very large reason why the US3 suck to the Middle East is that there is basically no tourist market from the USA absent what EK has created from nothing.

janders · Thu May 24, 2018 3:54 pm

Agreed, market pricing to India is still as low as ever. If anything will find even more discounts once DL enters.

Probably a loss leader of a route to connect to partner 9W for now, and try to score a few PR points along the way.

flymco753 · Thu May 24, 2018 3:54 pm

777Mech wrote:
Much to the dismay of the DTW crowd.

Who cares? Both have larger populations. I don't believe in participation trophy's, therefore DTW has to earn service.

FSDan · Thu May 24, 2018 3:55 pm

cokepopper wrote:
I’m assuming JFK service. If so, will it be back on the LR or can the A350 make it?

I agree JFK makes the most sense. I heard one rumor (on this site) that it would be the 77L rather than the 359.

jetero · Thu May 24, 2018 3:55 pm

Flighty wrote:
I'll bite. What did Trump do, exactly? And how will it cure the $500 each way pricing in this market

Lowercase p and doesn’t even use his name. Odd.

ap305 · Thu May 24, 2018 3:58 pm

cokepopper wrote:
I’m assuming JFK service. If so, will it be back on the LR or can the A350 make it?

The 350 will be restricted to 32-33t payload on the worst headwinds from BOM but will burn a lot less fuel. The economics may favor the a350 but there could be market share being sacrificed.

dtw2hyd · Thu May 24, 2018 4:05 pm

777Mech wrote:
...Much to the dismay of the DTW crowd.

No DTW-BOM. :hissyfit:

Anyway, congratulations to DL and the low-yield airports getting this opportunity.

LAXintl · Thu May 24, 2018 4:07 pm

Personally, I also doubt the economics are there, but Delta for years now has cried about ME3 being the reason they cant serve the region. Now with a much-lauded agreement let them put their plane where their mouth was before.

Anyhow, for the bulk of travelers, unless your destination is BOM from whatever US gateway DL chooses, the trip to points in India will be one or more stop journey, where ME3 still have a distinct advantage with so many destinations and frequencies to offer the consumer.

I personally see the route more a strategic link to further align relations with Jet Airways than one meant to print money.

burnsie28 · Thu May 24, 2018 4:12 pm

777Mech wrote:
klakzky123 wrote:
Presumably JFK and maybe ATL? Agree on DL needing to stop talking about the ME3.

In the celebration at the museum, Ed stated it would be from one of the east coast hubs. I'm assuming it would be JFK or ATL. Much to the dismay of the DTW crowd.

DTW is technically further east than ATL. ATL and JFK previously failed (I know its a new time and all) and the DTW area and connecting cities has potential. I wouldn't count DTW out yet.

carljanderson · Thu May 24, 2018 4:16 pm

So how much longer until Delta and/or AF/KLM buy out Etihad's 24% stake in Jet and announce a JV between the US, Europe and India?

LAX772LR · Thu May 24, 2018 4:19 pm

ap305 wrote:
cokepopper wrote:
I’m assuming JFK service. If so, will it be back on the LR or can the A350 make it?

The 350 will be restricted to 32-33t payload on the worst headwinds from BOM but will burn a lot less fuel. The economics may favor the a350 but there could be market share being sacrificed.

Part of that is a choice, as DL only selected 268T weights on their A350s. That can of course be changed, should they (later) decide to.

But something else to consider is that unlike last time, the 77Ls are paid off. Sure the A350s are more advanced and sip less fuel, but that's going to be offset by $1million+ in acquisition costs for each one. Combine that with the longer range and greater uplift of the 77L, and it's not real surprise if they select it over their current iteration of A350.

CaliguyNYC · Thu May 24, 2018 4:32 pm

I think the 77L will be remodeled by the time they launch BOM. As long as it has the lower J count and Premium Econ, I think either the 77L or the 350 would work just fine. Delta would actually have a very strong product to BOM plus premium Econ is actually very suited for BOM - the flight is long and VFR professionals have the money for Premium Econ but not J. Let's see how Delta times this trip. I hope it doesn't land in BOM very late. I think this route need connections on both sides.

ap305 · Thu May 24, 2018 4:50 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Part of that is a choice, as DL only selected 268T weights on their A350s. That can of course be changed, should they (later) decide to.

Dl's a359s have been at 275t for a while now.

iyerhari · Thu May 24, 2018 4:52 pm

Wow! this is a big news but questionable on how profitable this will be. IMO, it maybe either ATL or JFK; JFK has all the ME3 carriers at this time so that will make it difficult for DL and justify to be cost competitive. ATL looks to be the best shot; BOS maybe also a good possibility with competition from EK, QR and European carriers. AA is the only US3 carrier with no service to India after this announcement.

lightsaber · Thu May 24, 2018 4:57 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Personally, I also doubt the economics are there, but Delta for years now has cried about ME3 being the reason they cant serve the region. Now with a much-lauded agreement let them put their plane where their mouth was before.

Anyhow, for the bulk of travelers, unless your destination is BOM from whatever US gateway DL chooses, the trip to points in India will be one or more stop journey, where ME3 still have a distinct advantage with so many destinations and frequencies to offer the consumer.

I personally see the route more a strategic link to further align relations with Jet Airways than one meant to print money.

I think that by skipping one hub, it has enough yield for a marginally profitable route, if from JFK. DL has enough of a premium customer base there and I would think the screen industries in the two cities could drive demand.

But yeah, still lots of connections. Too many US business people must bridge connect to India (bridge=double hub).

EddieDude · Thu May 24, 2018 4:58 pm

Congrats to DL. This announcement was expected when a few weeks ago DL mentioned they were evaluating new routes following the "resolution" of the ME3 situation.

It will be interesting to see which hub they choose, but my money is in JFK. If DL has any chance of getting high yielding customers in a mostly super low yield market, then they have to go for the route with the highest O&D potential IMHO.

Will be interesting to see whether DL uses the 77L or the A359. If it is indeed JFK, it will also be interesting how they rotate the plane (from AMS maybe if it is the A359?).

xwb777 · Thu May 24, 2018 5:00 pm

I can't see how the agreement signed last few weeks can come into play with this Delta announcement! Delta will still have to fight the ME3 for the traffic. The ME3 response is that they will further reduce the ticket prices.

tphuang · Thu May 24, 2018 5:01 pm

It will do about as well as the us to china routes, but I suppose they cornered themselves into offering this after complaining about me3 for years. I don’t see how things have changed that would make this more profitable than a year ago,

xwb777 · Thu May 24, 2018 5:05 pm

Fingers crossed for DTW - DXB :crossfingers:

vulindlela744 · Thu May 24, 2018 5:08 pm

I think it will definitely be flown by the a350. SQ does a daily nonstop from Singapore with no problems with their a350. I also think it’ll be from Atl. New York area already has daily Air India flights from JFK and EWR and UA flies daily from EWR to both BOM and DEL

gsg013 · Thu May 24, 2018 5:08 pm

Flighty wrote:
I'll bite. What did Trump do, exactly? And how will it cure the $500 each way pricing in this market

The Trump administration got an agreement with the ME3 and their govt to stop adding future 5th freedom rights flights into the US.. These 5ht Freedom flights were going to hurt the US3 on flights to Europe which currently are competing for connecting traffic with the ME3 for pax going to India.

The Trump admin also said they would start enforcing violations of openskies treaties with the ME3 if they continue to subsidize their carriers at the detriment to US carriers.

Got to hand it to Trump on this.

gsg013 · Thu May 24, 2018 5:11 pm

And yes my money is on JFK-BOM with a 777-200ER I see this as not only a great option for O&D but also for connections throughout india with a 1 stop option without having to fly on a ME3 airline.

There are also a number of connecting flights coming into JFK that can feed this flight with high yielding pax.

stl07 · Thu May 24, 2018 5:29 pm

Didn't AA also say they would return soon?

jfk777 · Thu May 24, 2018 5:29 pm

ATL is too far south for this to work and a one ocean hub with a flight or two to Asia. JFK is the most likely point since its is New York. Detroit would be an interesting point since Delta has such a large two ocean international hubs there. However this plays out its all good for DL.

flymco753 · Thu May 24, 2018 5:31 pm

xwb777 wrote:
Fingers crossed for DTW - DXB

On EK for onward connections to India? Probably. DL? They would be dumb to add a market that only serves 15 or so pax per day.

EddieDude · Thu May 24, 2018 5:38 pm

vulindlela744 wrote:
I think it will definitely be flown by the a350. SQ does a daily nonstop from Singapore with no problems with their a350. I also think it’ll be from Atl. New York area already has daily Air India flights from JFK and EWR and UA flies daily from EWR to both BOM and DEL

You mean SIN-SFO, right?

SIN-NYC has yet to launch and it will be an A359ULR.

tlecam · Thu May 24, 2018 5:43 pm

I would have guessed JFK but what gives me pause is that JFK largely caters to O&D and given the economics of the route, I wonder if the connecting strength of ATL or DTW might be better.

One the one hand, there is a lot of US-India travel in the northeast, and backtracking may not be all that viable. One the other hand, DTW and ATL have tons of connectivity to the rest of the country that JFK doesn't have at the same scale.

LAXLHR · Thu May 24, 2018 5:47 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Delta Air Lines says it will begin nonstop flights between the US and Mumbai, India, next year. This move will mark a return to India for Delta from where it withdrew in 2015 citing low profitability.

"It is exciting to be able to announce Delta's return to India from the U.S. as part of our vision to expand Delta's reach internationally," said Delta CEO Ed Bastian. "We are thankful to the president for taking real action to enforce our Open Skies trade deals, which made this new service possible. We are looking forward to providing customers in the U.S. and India with Delta's famously reliable, customer-focused service operated by the best employees in the industry."

The service is subject to government approval; full schedule details will be announced later this year.

Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop from the U.S. in 2019
https://news.delta.com/delta-serve-mumb ... op-us-2019

=

BOM route obviously would link up with Jet Airways hub

Though I think its pretty childish to use much of the press release to continue to bash the ME3. DL needs to move beyond.

Delta Airlines is a pathetic carrier!. When they fail to make money to India they will of course blame it on the ME3.

berari · Thu May 24, 2018 5:50 pm

How has the Open Skies conversation enabled Delta to restart India services? The only thing that I know that came out of it is that "there are no plans to start new 5th freedom flights" which is not relevant.

What else has transpired?

Nola · Thu May 24, 2018 5:50 pm

It seems like ATL would make some sense; DTW also. NYC already has nonstops from two airports to India. Why compete there when another route with no competition, i.e., potentially higher prices, could be opened up?

Doesn't DL already have a JV with Jet, KLM and AF for flights to India?

klakzky123 · Thu May 24, 2018 5:52 pm

Nola wrote:
It seems like ATL would make some sense; DTW also. NYC already has nonstops from two airports to India. Why compete there when another route with no competition, i.e., potentially higher prices, could be opened up?

Doesn't DL already have a JV with Jet, KLM and AF for flights to India?

DL has a strong premium base in JFK that would potentially benefit from a nonstop to India. JFK also doesn't really have to rely on connections so that naturally helps with yields. Also, DL doesn't have a JV for India flights. AF/KL are only for TATL and Jet Airways is just a codeshare relationship.

An A350 with suites (with an overall new product) is a great offering when compared to Air India and UA (UA doesn't have planes with the new polaris seats on the EWR-India routes).

dtw2hyd · Thu May 24, 2018 5:53 pm

berari wrote:
How has the Open Skies conversation enabled Delta to restart India services? The only thing that I know that came out of it is that "there are no plans to start new 5th freedom flights" which is not relevant.

What else has transpired?

No government constructed infrastructure.
Details of new arm length transactions.
Open books(not reports) to external auditors
Review progress with US Representatives after one year.

flymco753 · Thu May 24, 2018 5:54 pm

DTW might be in 350 range depending on the flight path. It's closer to ATL and would probably perform economically better. It's not as quite low yielding as JFK or ATL. Hmmm....

algeorge2015 · Thu May 24, 2018 5:59 pm

Given the multitude of choice/options in NYC area and lack of choice/options in ATL region, ATL is in desperate need of options/competition to Indian subcontinent. ATL-DEL & ATL-BOM nonstop ULH is becoming more of a need. In my personal opinion (surfing the lil knowledge within south indian community) - an economy class round trip price of USD 950-1000 (except for mos of Dec, Jun, & July) out of ATL will be very attractive.

Flighty · Thu May 24, 2018 5:59 pm

vulindlela744 wrote:
I think it will definitely be flown by the a350. SQ does a daily nonstop from Singapore with no problems with their a350. I also think it’ll be from Atl. New York area already has daily Air India flights from JFK and EWR and UA flies daily from EWR to both BOM and DEL

Agreed on both counts, actually. ATL provides Delta with fresh pickings of USA-India city pairs, even though the local demand+distance is not ideal. ATL would provide the best India service to around 75-100 US cities. Take Bentonville Ark for example.

A350 will save lots of fuel, which is a dire concern here. As a former legacy management waterboy, the fuel burn on USA-BOM makes the mind reel. The object may be to lose as few millions per month as possible here. No one doubts the future growth of USA-India but for right now, Delta is making a calculated minimum foray to keep its possibilities open. And that means A350, if it makes it.

737307 · Thu May 24, 2018 6:00 pm

Would be fun if it will be BOS-BOM.

dtw2hyd · Thu May 24, 2018 6:01 pm

algeorge2015 wrote:
...an economy class round trip price of USD 950-1000 (except for mos of Dec, Jun, & July) out of ATL will be very attractive.

They can get $1300-$1700 from DTW.

Irehdna · Thu May 24, 2018 6:01 pm

Interesting that DL are choosing BOM over DEL. DEL is not an insignificant hub for 9W. I suppose they are trying to counter AI's DEL hub model in which nearly all flights go via DEL.

I was initially thinking that DL would launch ATL-DEL on the A359 as their return to India. It is interesting to see whether they choose JFK or ATL for this flight. How many restrictions are required for an A359 to make BOM-ATL nonstop? I would imagine this flight wouldn't be that much shorter than AI's DEL-SFO.

Though to be fair, launching ATL-BOM before ATL-TLV is somewhat interesting. However, I don't know how much connecting demand there would be for ATL-TLV.

Sightseer · Thu May 24, 2018 6:01 pm

If this is not a 77L on JFK-BOM, I'll be surprised. No other hub has enough O&D to make such a long flight worthwhile, and any USA-India route will be several hundred miles longer than DL's current longest A350 route.

I'm also chalking this development up to DL saving face, since in reality nothing has really changed regarding the actual economics of the US-India market. But still, as an enthusiast I'm glad to see it happen.

NickolayAv · Thu May 24, 2018 6:09 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Would be fun if it will be BOS-BOM.

I would love to see the reaction of non-Bostonians, especially DTW.

algeorge2015 · Thu May 24, 2018 6:23 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
algeorge2015 wrote:
...an economy class round trip price of USD 950-1000 (except for mos of Dec, Jun, & July) out of ATL will be very attractive.

They can get $1300-$1700 from DTW.

During other months roundtrip tickets are available for USD 550-600 from NYC and 850-900 from ATL on QR ( with no extra charge for checked in and carry on luggages). 950-1000 with extra luggage fees on delta will be just attractive for economy folks to avoid NYC

MIAFLLPBIFlyer · Thu May 24, 2018 6:31 pm

They're rationalizing things obviously RE: ME3 but I think the reality is for DL's efforts to continue to accrue corporate partners in NYC, BOM nonstops and maybe eventually China are a must.

mackdad · Thu May 24, 2018 6:33 pm

Imho I believe it will be ATL to drive out QR out of the market.

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