sonicruiser
Posts: 405
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:39 am

klm617 wrote:
I have been told by a credible source that and announcement is forthcoming by March 31st


I have severe doubts about that.
 
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Jouhou
Posts: 1905
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:57 am

winginit wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
DL might have dodged a bullet. It's the definition of hypocrisy to wage war against government subsidies for the ME3 while at the same time buying ownership interest in Chinese airlines that receive government subsidies. The less visible this hypocrisy is, the better.


They very likely dodged a financial bullet as well if they indeed opt not to launch this route at all. I don't think there's any doubt in anyone's mind that this route, regardless of equipment or origin, would be anything but a hefty loss maker.


Loss maker of loss leader? U.S. business travelers would love a U.S. Airline that could bring them straight to India's most important financial center without the dysfunction of the actual airlines of india. It'd be about buying loyalty.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:07 am

sonicruiser wrote:
klm617 wrote:
I have been told by a credible source that and announcement is forthcoming by March 31st


I have severe doubts about that.


Yes, April 1st seems more likely. :smile:
 
klm617
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:30 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:
klm617 wrote:
I have been told by a credible source that and announcement is forthcoming by March 31st


I have severe doubts about that.


Yes, April 1st seems more likely. :smile:


What I don't get is why no one pushing back on Bastian about this comment.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
jordanh
Posts: 252
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:39 pm

klm617 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:
I have severe doubts about that.

Yes, April 1st seems more likely. :smile:

What I don't get is why no one pushing back on Bastian about this comment.


He didn't make that comment. You made that comment.
 
klm617
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:00 pm

jordanh wrote:
klm617 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Yes, April 1st seems more likely. :smile:

What I don't get is why no one pushing back on Bastian about this comment.


He didn't make that comment. You made that comment.


This.

"It is exciting to be able to announce Delta's return to India from the U.S. as part of our vision to expand Delta's reach internationally," said Delta CEO Ed Bastian. "We are thankful to the president for taking real action to enforce our Open Skies trade deals, which made this new service possible.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Delta28L
Posts: 137
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:55 pm

Are they going to wait for Pakistan to reopen their airspace to overflights before starting service to India? Been seeing pics of Air India stopping in Vienna as a fuel stop since the air space closure detour began.
 
mackdad
Posts: 63
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:18 pm

Delta28L wrote:
Are they going to wait for Pakistan to reopen their airspace to overflights before starting service to India? Been seeing pics of Air India stopping in Vienna as a fuel stop since the air space closure detour began.

Ding ding ding we have a winner. That’s the last I heard also. With Pakistani and Iranian air space closed to US carriers the flight plan would be at the edge of the LR limits. The flight would have to go restricted and marketing doesn’t want to do that.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2003
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:33 pm

Delta28L wrote:
Are they going to wait for Pakistan to reopen their airspace to overflights before starting service to India? Been seeing pics of Air India stopping in Vienna as a fuel stop since the air space closure detour began.


They are waiting for Pakistan to reopen their airspace before starting service to India...... :shakehead: You mean they are waiting for Pakistan to reopen their airspace before announcing service to India.
Delta hasn't even announced a date for service to start, how can the Pakistani airspace closure be an obstacle when DL hasn't even taken the first step which is announce a tentative launch date?
If I'm not mistaken Pakistan closed their airspace to overflights on February 27th or 28th. Do we have any indication besides the rumors on this thread (most of them haven't panned out) that DL planned to announce a start date for BOM between February 27th (the day the airspace was closed) and today?
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 928
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:40 pm

mackdad wrote:
Delta28L wrote:
Are they going to wait for Pakistan to reopen their airspace to overflights before starting service to India? Been seeing pics of Air India stopping in Vienna as a fuel stop since the air space closure detour began.

Ding ding ding we have a winner. That’s the last I heard also. With Pakistani and Iranian air space closed to US carriers the flight plan would be at the edge of the LR limits. The flight would have to go restricted and marketing doesn’t want to do that.


I don’t know if I buy that. THey can announce a December 1 start date (to coincide with peak season). I am starting to wonder if Delta is serious about India. Ph and to the poster that said people want to avoid indian airlines, the Delta-Jet partnership has worked really well. Jet is not perfect but it offers a great soft and hard production J. Where Jet isn’t as good is IRROPs but DL always saves the day when needed. I have connected from DL to JEt now 8 times. All flights been great and smooth transition connecting in AMS, LHR and CDG.
 
PWMRamper
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:41 pm

ATL BOM announced by the middle of April.
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:52 pm

PWMRamper wrote:
ATL BOM announced by the middle of April.


Who's your source for that? We've been hearing rumors about which route and when it will be announced for months now... What makes this rumor credible?
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1366
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:09 pm

PWMRamper wrote:
ATL BOM announced by the middle of April.


ATL seems like the wrong choice. Many of the largest pockets of the US Indian population are in the mid & northern Atlantic region of the country. People from BOS, NYC, PHL, DC would have to fly 2-hours south to turn around and fly right back over where they started.

Doing JFK-BOM just seems like it’d be such a better option.
 
klm617
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:10 am

mackdad wrote:
Delta28L wrote:
Are they going to wait for Pakistan to reopen their airspace to overflights before starting service to India? Been seeing pics of Air India stopping in Vienna as a fuel stop since the air space closure detour began.

Ding ding ding we have a winner. That’s the last I heard also. With Pakistani and Iranian air space closed to US carriers the flight plan would be at the edge of the LR limits. The flight would have to go restricted and marketing doesn’t want to do that.



I think if that were the case Mr. Bastian would have come out and said that.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
PWMRamper
Posts: 360
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:26 am

FSDan wrote:
PWMRamper wrote:
ATL BOM announced by the middle of April.


Who's your source for that? We've been hearing rumors about which route and when it will be announced for months now... What makes this rumor credible?


Sorry I should've clarified. It's just a guess. If they really are gonna start by end of the year, they have to announce soon. ATL makes sense from an aircraft routing standpoint, and from a network standpoint.
 
panamair
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:32 am

Do people really not realize what is going on with Jet Airways? One of the key success factors for such a route is the 9W relationship (feed, customer base on the Indian side point-of-sale). At this point, I am pretty confident that the 9W situation is a major roadblock to announcing this route. Until there is some clarity and confidence about 9W’s future, I would not expect any announcement.
 
winginit
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:07 am

panamair wrote:
Do people really not realize what is going on with Jet Airways? One of the key success factors for such a route is the 9W relationship (feed, customer base on the Indian side point-of-sale). At this point, I am pretty confident that the 9W situation is a major roadblock to announcing this route. Until there is some clarity and confidence about 9W’s future, I would not expect any announcement.


Ding ding ding. Now there's the actual winner.
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:54 pm

panamair wrote:
Do people really not realize what is going on with Jet Airways? One of the key success factors for such a route is the 9W relationship (feed, customer base on the Indian side point-of-sale). At this point, I am pretty confident that the 9W situation is a major roadblock to announcing this route. Until there is some clarity and confidence about 9W’s future, I would not expect any announcement.


:checkmark: That definitely has to be a major part of why this announcement hasn't proceeded as initially planned... Without the ability to capture high value 9W-loyal passengers on the BOM end, and without the ability to offer connections beyond BOM on a reliable partner, any U.S.-BOM route DL tries is going to be a major uphill battle. If 9W can't get back on their feet, I think DL will balk.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
Posts: 337
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:16 pm

panamair wrote:
Do people really not realize what is going on with Jet Airways? One of the key success factors for such a route is the 9W relationship (feed, customer base on the Indian side point-of-sale). At this point, I am pretty confident that the 9W situation is a major roadblock to announcing this route. Until there is some clarity and confidence about 9W’s future, I would not expect any announcement.


Exactly right. If the Jet moves this week result in a more stable partner, I would expect a DL announcement within a few months. Otherwise, no way. It's all contingent on 9W IMO.
 
sonicruiser
Posts: 405
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:01 pm

I'm pretty sure UA doesn't partner with AI to make the route work. Can DL not focus on O/D like UA?
 
incitatus
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:21 pm

That was just a typo on Delta's part that generated 700+ comments in a.net. They meant to say Delta will be serving India-na in 2019!
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
727200
Posts: 633
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:27 pm

Looks to me like DL route planners back to the dart board for new city destinations...just like before.
 
COEWR787
Posts: 326
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:20 pm

sonicruiser wrote:
I'm pretty sure UA doesn't partner with AI to make the route work. Can DL not focus on O/D like UA?

UA partners with Jet Airways and Vistara for domestic connections from DEL and BOM in India from its non stops from US to India. It does not touch AI with even a ten foot barge pole!
 
klm617
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:30 am

Let's stop making excuses for Ed Bastian about why BOM hasn't been announced yet and deflecting it on external issues. Chances are Delta put this out there to see what kind of corporate contracts the Delta sales teams could line up in New York and Atlanta and in the end neither signed enough corporate contracts for premium travel to make the flight viable so they just quietly said nothing and hoped that everyone would forget about what Ed said. Delta is a big propaganda machine that will say and do whatever it needs to to achieve it's desired goals even if it's the truth or not. Chances are that why a USA-India nonstop has not been announced. For the most part North America India traffic is very price sensitive and Delta doesn't want to cater to that kind of demand.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
jumbojet
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:02 pm

jayunited wrote:
Delta28L wrote:
Are they going to wait for Pakistan to reopen their airspace to overflights before starting service to India? Been seeing pics of Air India stopping in Vienna as a fuel stop since the air space closure detour began.


They are waiting for Pakistan to reopen their airspace before starting service to India...... :shakehead: You mean they are waiting for Pakistan to reopen their airspace before announcing service to India.
Delta hasn't even announced a date for service to start, how can the Pakistani airspace closure be an obstacle when DL hasn't even taken the first step which is announce a tentative launch date?
If I'm not mistaken Pakistan closed their airspace to overflights on February 27th or 28th. Do we have any indication besides the rumors on this thread (most of them haven't panned out) that DL planned to announce a start date for BOM between February 27th (the day the airspace was closed) and today?


As opposed to what, UA announcing a new route and starting it fully knowing they will lose a bundle of money on it, which they are famous for? DL is known to play things smart and safe. They will announce it when they feel its right for its bottom line.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:06 pm

727200 wrote:
Looks to me like DL route planners back to the dart board for new city destinations...just like before.


Thats a very profitable dart board I am sure ALL other airlines would love to have. That dartboard you speak of makes DL the richest airline in the world.
 
hohd
Posts: 727
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:27 pm

COEWR787 wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:
I'm pretty sure UA doesn't partner with AI to make the route work. Can DL not focus on O/D like UA?

UA partners with Jet Airways and Vistara for domestic connections from DEL and BOM in India from its non stops from US to India. It does not touch AI with even a ten foot barge pole!


Wrong UA partners with AI too based on convenience. I have connected on AI both at BOM and DEL to HYD and MAA.

And closure of Pak airspace affects mostly DEL flights, not BOM as much.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:02 pm

jumbojet wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Delta28L wrote:
Are they going to wait for Pakistan to reopen their airspace to overflights before starting service to India? Been seeing pics of Air India stopping in Vienna as a fuel stop since the air space closure detour began.


They are waiting for Pakistan to reopen their airspace before starting service to India...... :shakehead: You mean they are waiting for Pakistan to reopen their airspace before announcing service to India.
Delta hasn't even announced a date for service to start, how can the Pakistani airspace closure be an obstacle when DL hasn't even taken the first step which is announce a tentative launch date?
If I'm not mistaken Pakistan closed their airspace to overflights on February 27th or 28th. Do we have any indication besides the rumors on this thread (most of them haven't panned out) that DL planned to announce a start date for BOM between February 27th (the day the airspace was closed) and today?


As opposed to what, UA announcing a new route and starting it fully knowing they will lose a bundle of money on it, which they are famous for? DL is known to play things smart and safe. They will announce it when they feel its right for its bottom line.


Unless you see P&L sheets, everything you wrote is garbage
Next flight: IAH-GUA-IAH on UA in Y.
 
Pbb152
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:42 am

COEWR787 wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:
I'm pretty sure UA doesn't partner with AI to make the route work. Can DL not focus on O/D like UA?

UA partners with Jet Airways and Vistara for domestic connections from DEL and BOM in India from its non stops from US to India. It does not touch AI with even a ten foot barge pole!


That's very smart of them. I have flown AI in J numerous times in the last 3 years, and I have never seen such an apathetic and unpleasant group of employees. Everyone from ground staff, lounge staff, inflight staff, etc. seem to genuinely hate their lives. I absolutely told myself after the last trip I would never fly them again. I'll pay more next time I go to India to avoid them.
 
winginit
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:42 am

klm617 wrote:
Chances are Delta put this out there to see what kind of corporate contracts the Delta sales teams could line up in New York and Atlanta and in the end neither signed enough corporate contracts for premium travel to make the flight viable so they just quietly said nothing and hoped that everyone would forget about what Ed said.


What nonsense. Complete and utter nonsense that shows, for starters, a complete lack of understanding as to even how basic corporate contracts work in this industry.

First and foremost, Delta and their Transatlantic JV with AF/KL already serve India extensively on a one-stop basis, so rebooting a nonstop between the US and India was never going to magically generate new corporate contracts.

Secondly, a corporate contract, which often simply results in a carrier being labeled as preferred with associated discounts in a corporate travel program, is by no means any sort of revenue guarantee with the sole exception of corporate revenue guarantees, which are all but extinct.

Delta had been growing closer and closer to Jet Airways, and even went as far as to send their NYC Sales Director to head up Jet’s North American sales organization. It’s crystal clear that this nonstop would have relied heavily on Jet feed behind and beyond BOM, and with Jet’s now nearly imminent collapse it’s likely that this already financially unstable nonstop moved to being entirely unviable.

So in conclusion, no, this was not some propaganda play to somehow win new magic corporate contracts. Learn before you post.
 
777Mech
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:26 pm

klm617 wrote:
I have been told by a credible source that and announcement is forthcoming by March 31st


Your "source" probably thinks that DTW-SIN is imminent too.

DL isn't going to announce a route on a Sunday, so your source isn't credible.

The source is probably just you if I had to guess.
 
IPFreely
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:36 pm

winginit wrote:
The route and US point of origin will be announced prior to March 31, 2019. You're free to hold me to that.


Before March 31 means the announcement is today. What time is it being made?
 
TW870
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:46 pm

777Mech wrote:
klm617 wrote:
I have been told by a credible source that and announcement is forthcoming by March 31st


Your "source" probably thinks that DTW-SIN is imminent too.

DL isn't going to announce a route on a Sunday, so your source isn't credible.

The source is probably just you if I had to guess.


Yes, I would be extremely surprised if we see an announcement on this, not just because of the major problems at Jet Airways. I don't have access to the latest details on the Delta-ALPA negotiations, but I have said before on here that the KE-DL joint venture block hours rebalancing is a hugely important negotiating goal for the pilots. If they are successful at the table, I think we will see DL take over a few ICN long hauls, which is going to impact block hours on the 777 and A350 fleets in 2020 and beyond which will in turn impact how many resources DL has to deploy in India. I hope we see DL serve BOM, but I think there are too many things in play right now to hear an announcement now.
 
klm617
Posts: 4339
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:29 pm

777Mech wrote:
klm617 wrote:
I have been told by a credible source that and announcement is forthcoming by March 31st


Your "source" probably thinks that DTW-SIN is imminent too.

DL isn't going to announce a route on a Sunday, so your source isn't credible.

The source is probably just you if I had to guess.


Well since enquiring minds want to know. wingingit was my source.

And I quote "winginit wrote:

The route and US point of origin will be announced prior to March 31, 2019. You're free to hold me to that."
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
Posts: 4339
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:39 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Chances are Delta put this out there to see what kind of corporate contracts the Delta sales teams could line up in New York and Atlanta and in the end neither signed enough corporate contracts for premium travel to make the flight viable so they just quietly said nothing and hoped that everyone would forget about what Ed said.


What nonsense. Complete and utter nonsense that shows, for starters, a complete lack of understanding as to even how basic corporate contracts work in this industry.

First and foremost, Delta and their Transatlantic JV with AF/KL already serve India extensively on a one-stop basis, so rebooting a nonstop between the US and India was never going to magically generate new corporate contracts.

Secondly, a corporate contract, which often simply results in a carrier being labeled as preferred with associated discounts in a corporate travel program, is by no means any sort of revenue guarantee with the sole exception of corporate revenue guarantees, which are all but extinct.

Delta had been growing closer and closer to Jet Airways, and even went as far as to send their NYC Sales Director to head up Jet’s North American sales organization. It’s crystal clear that this nonstop would have relied heavily on Jet feed behind and beyond BOM, and with Jet’s now nearly imminent collapse it’s likely that this already financially unstable nonstop moved to being entirely unviable.

So in conclusion, no, this was not some propaganda play to somehow win new magic corporate contracts. Learn before you post.


If that were the case honest Ed would have come out an said the USA to India is no longer on the table because of the struggles of Jet Airways. Sorry but in the NYC area there a plenty of lucrative corporate contracts that they could have won over from AI and UA not so much in ATL because you are right Delta has that market on locked down.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
sonicruiser
Posts: 405
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:35 am

Well there goes March 31st...
 
PHLCVGAMTK
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:34 am

As much as the stars were aligning for this at the start of 2019, they are rapidly falling into disarray. To wit: Delta had a solid plan to decongest crowded hubs at CDG and AMS by pulling transfer traffic onto its own overflying metal, and then rely on 9W for connections on the other end, meanwhile backfilling the European flights with higher-yielding traffic. Now 9W has retrenched far back from its previous heights, and SkyTeam has added MAN to its portfolio of Northern European hubs over which it can flow transfer traffic. And the Pakistani airspace closure makes the already marginal economics and payload-range concerns, critical potential points of failure.

If it weren't for the political angle of loss-of-face, it would be much more obviously in DL's interest to scrounge up some A330s or even A340s for VS to launch a portfolio of India routes ex-MAN. Even at taking only a 49% share, that's a much bigger prize for DL to go for, and much more assured of success. As it stands, I don't think it's even worth speculating until we know more about DL's intentions.
 
klm617
Posts: 4339
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:20 pm

PHLCVGAMTK wrote:
As much as the stars were aligning for this at the start of 2019, they are rapidly falling into disarray. To wit: Delta had a solid plan to decongest crowded hubs at CDG and AMS by pulling transfer traffic onto its own overflying metal, and then rely on 9W for connections on the other end, meanwhile backfilling the European flights with higher-yielding traffic. Now 9W has retrenched far back from its previous heights, and SkyTeam has added MAN to its portfolio of Northern European hubs over which it can flow transfer traffic. And the Pakistani airspace closure makes the already marginal economics and payload-range concerns, critical potential points of failure.

If it weren't for the political angle of loss-of-face, it would be much more obviously in DL's interest to scrounge up some A330s or even A340s for VS to launch a portfolio of India routes ex-MAN. Even at taking only a 49% share, that's a much bigger prize for DL to go for, and much more assured of success. As it stands, I don't think it's even worth speculating until we know more about DL's intentions.


So then it was never the ME3 that was holding them back because they had access to the 9W network before.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:14 pm

PHLCVGAMTK wrote:
and SkyTeam has added MAN to its portfolio of Northern European hubs over which it can flow transfer traffic.

Symbolic value at best. Particularly at an airport from which SkyTeam only serves a grand total of 7 destinations year-round.

Heck, if having an airport with no shorthaul feed based there, thus solely relying on transfer by extant partners to their hubs and sparse p2p routes, counted as a focus for transfer flow... then SkyTeam could essentially say the same for every large airport in Europe.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 1979
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Opinion: If DL comes through with service to India, it will probably have to be nonstops ex-ATL or -JFK using 9W slots at BOM and DEL. If 9W survives, it will take longer than the remaining months in 2019 to rebuild. How long will cancellation of all international service by 9W ex-DEL and -BOM last?
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 928
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:30 pm

PHLCVGAMTK wrote:
As much as the stars were aligning for this at the start of 2019, they are rapidly falling into disarray. To wit: Delta had a solid plan to decongest crowded hubs at CDG and AMS by pulling transfer traffic onto its own overflying metal, and then rely on 9W for connections on the other end, meanwhile backfilling the European flights with higher-yielding traffic. Now 9W has retrenched far back from its previous heights, and SkyTeam has added MAN to its portfolio of Northern European hubs over which it can flow transfer traffic. And the Pakistani airspace closure makes the already marginal economics and payload-range concerns, critical potential points of failure.

If it weren't for the political angle of loss-of-face, it would be much more obviously in DL's interest to scrounge up some A330s or even A340s for VS to launch a portfolio of India routes ex-MAN. Even at taking only a 49% share, that's a much bigger prize for DL to go for, and much more assured of success. As it stands, I don't think it's even worth speculating until we know more about DL's intentions.


Except the market wants nonstops. An airline as bad as AI, can fill nonstops. The timings of their flights are convient and you don’t have to transfer in EU while your body is saying you should be asleep. Trust me the current one stops through EU suck from a pax point of view. No one wants to land in BOM at 2am and depart at 4am. These timings wouldn’t work in the West, why do people think India loves them. Finally US-India traffic has a lot of people going to tier 2 & 3 markets in both countries. These connections are made much easier through nonstop flights. The sticking point has always been price,. That is where the ME3 had the affect. Offering $700 fares makes the nonstops tough. Whatever you might think about India traffic, Indian Americans have one of the highest average incomes in the US. I happily pay Delta $1500 for my peak summer trip to Europe but somehow when going to India, people think the market can only bare $700/800 fares. I think DL’s best approach is to launch one nonstop to keep business travelers happy and contniue to push cheap traffic through the EU.
 
User avatar
compensateme
Posts: 3239
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:09 am

winginit wrote:
The route and US point of origin will be announced prior to March 31, 2019. You're free to hold me to that.


You posted this about two months ago. What happened to March 31st?
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 816
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:21 am

LAX772LR wrote:
PHLCVGAMTK wrote:
and SkyTeam has added MAN to its portfolio of Northern European hubs over which it can flow transfer traffic.

Symbolic value at best. Particularly at an airport from which SkyTeam only serves a grand total of 7 destinations year-round.

Heck, if having an airport with no shorthaul feed based there, thus solely relying on transfer by extant partners to their hubs and sparse p2p routes, counted as a focus for transfer flow... then SkyTeam could essentially say the same for every large airport in Europe.


Documents filed at the UK court in support of the acquisition of FlyBe state that one of the objectives is to feed long haul services at MAN and LHR.

I would expect any operation at MAN to be complementary to VS’s operation at LHR, KL’s at AMS and AF’s at CDG. Precisely what this means is up for debate, my best guess is that VS at MAN will be for DL/VS/AF/KL approximately what EI is at DUB for IAG.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7059
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:28 pm

Adding one non-stop(two-stop in a disguise for most) to a "low-yield" country from any capacity saturated US station is not going to add value.

DL is at its top in service quality. TATL is well covered. EU-India network has to improve. No need to waste a ULR frame and burn unnecessary fuel so $499 paid Y and reward travel premium passengers can enjoy a non-stop. Nothing for Delta's bottom line.

9W at BOM will survive. Just came back from India, Delta(2 segments), KLM(1 segment), and 9W (3 segments). With all its troubles 9W planes are full and they are doing their best to provide good service to passengers.
 
winginit
Posts: 2504
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:46 pm

IPFreely wrote:
Before March 31 means the announcement is today. What time is it being made?


compensateme wrote:
winginit wrote:
The route and US point of origin will be announced prior to March 31, 2019. You're free to hold me to that.


You posted this about two months ago. What happened to March 31st?


Please pay attention. I posted the below literally a month ago in this very thread:

winginit wrote:
Some interesting developments today per a contact at BOM airport that will likely have me eating my previous posts in this thread:

- Announcement of service to commence in November 2019 had been imminent, with local plans having been made to rev up communication no later than next week

- Outstanding item had been origin and thus equipment type

However, as of this week everything has been put on hold to a degree that implies an announcement is no longer imminent. Implied reason for delay is the financial predicament of Jet Airways, but that’s speculative.

Quite embarrassing for Delta if this ends up being delayed indefinitely, and kudos to users who had pointed out that this would be a likely outcome.

I’ll confess I’ve completely flip-flopped here given this news, and now strongly doubt we’ll see DL nonstop service to BOM in 2019. I do think if that’s the case that we’ll see it in 2020. It would simply be too big a retraction for DL to not serve the market at all having claimed questionable victory over the ME3 with India as the focal point of their points against their practices.


klm617 wrote:
Sorry but in the NYC area there a plenty of lucrative corporate contracts that they could have won over from AI and UA not so much in ATL because you are right Delta has that market on locked down.


You have no idea what you're talking about as per usual and definitely no idea how commercial aviation corporate contracting works. Corporate agreements are very rarely made or broken by a single nonstop. Name one single corporate entity in NYC that DL doesn't at all contract with but UA/AI does. We'll wait.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 928
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:33 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Adding one non-stop(two-stop in a disguise for most) to a "low-yield" country from any capacity saturated US station is not going to add value.

DL is at its top in service quality. TATL is well covered. EU-India network has to improve. No need to waste a ULR frame and burn unnecessary fuel so $499 paid Y and reward travel premium passengers can enjoy a non-stop. Nothing for Delta's bottom line.

9W at BOM will survive. Just came back from India, Delta(2 segments), KLM(1 segment), and 9W (3 segments). With all its troubles 9W planes are full and they are doing their best to provide good service to passengers.


Look I can't say if DL will make money or not, but I disagree that it won't add value. Other than a few sale fares by Chinese carriers, I have never seen $499 fares from JFK to BOM. The question is - are there enough people willing to pay a premium for the convenience of a nonstop (or a one stop through BOM). AI and UA have proven there can be, the question is can DL find a large enough group to make it work from JFK or ATL (I will leave DTW out of this). I still think DL can. NYC has (1) premium business traffic that can pay $10k for a trip to India in J and (2) some of the most affluent and long established Indian VFR in the country. Indian professionals who are DL elites will absolutely favor DL and pay a premium. I almost never fly UA/AI on their nonstop because I am a DL diamond. I pretty much always end up paying a premium for DL's nonstop to Europe when I go for work or personal travel. Also there is a crowd (not everyone) who hates the 6 hour flight to EU and then connect like a zombie to then land in BOM or India at 2am. I think these points have all been made before. Who knows what DL will do. If I would bet, I would say they will punt on the flight given 9W's shaky state and potential new owner.
 
iyerhari
Posts: 911
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:57 pm

panamair wrote:
Do people really not realize what is going on with Jet Airways? One of the key success factors for such a route is the 9W relationship (feed, customer base on the Indian side point-of-sale). At this point, I am pretty confident that the 9W situation is a major roadblock to announcing this route. Until there is some clarity and confidence about 9W’s future, I would not expect any announcement.

It is fairly certain that SBI will save 9W. Naresh Goyal and his wife are no longer part of the company although I believe he will still have some stake left which they may ask him to relinquish. SBI terms and conditions also may not have Etihad in the picture. It is quite certain that the Indian Govt. thanks to SBI may not let 9W to go under. At this time, there is at-least no corruption.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 74570.html
 
Texas77
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:42 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:46 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
PHLCVGAMTK wrote:
As much as the stars were aligning for this at the start of 2019, they are rapidly falling into disarray. To wit: Delta had a solid plan to decongest crowded hubs at CDG and AMS by pulling transfer traffic onto its own overflying metal, and then rely on 9W for connections on the other end, meanwhile backfilling the European flights with higher-yielding traffic. Now 9W has retrenched far back from its previous heights, and SkyTeam has added MAN to its portfolio of Northern European hubs over which it can flow transfer traffic. And the Pakistani airspace closure makes the already marginal economics and payload-range concerns, critical potential points of failure.

If it weren't for the political angle of loss-of-face, it would be much more obviously in DL's interest to scrounge up some A330s or even A340s for VS to launch a portfolio of India routes ex-MAN. Even at taking only a 49% share, that's a much bigger prize for DL to go for, and much more assured of success. As it stands, I don't think it's even worth speculating until we know more about DL's intentions.


Except the market wants nonstops. An airline as bad as AI, can fill nonstops. The timings of their flights are convient and you don’t have to transfer in EU while your body is saying you should be asleep. Trust me the current one stops through EU suck from a pax point of view. No one wants to land in BOM at 2am and depart at 4am. These timings wouldn’t work in the West, why do people think India loves them. Finally US-India traffic has a lot of people going to tier 2 & 3 markets in both countries. These connections are made much easier through nonstop flights. The sticking point has always been price,. That is where the ME3 had the affect. Offering $700 fares makes the nonstops tough. Whatever you might think about India traffic, Indian Americans have one of the highest average incomes in the US. I happily pay Delta $1500 for my peak summer trip to Europe but somehow when going to India, people think the market can only bare $700/800 fares. I think DL’s best approach is to launch one nonstop to keep business travelers happy and contniue to push cheap traffic through the EU.


I flew to BLR through FRA a couple months ago, arrived at 1.30am and departed 3am, and I can confirm- no one on either flight seemed happy about it. What MTOW plane would it take for IAH-BLR nonstop?
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3174
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:55 pm

Routes announced for political PR purposes have a tendency to slip into the black hole of history.

I assume this will come up on the 1Q earnings call.
 
FSDan
Posts: 2401
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:35 am

Put down the pitchforks, y'all! winginit acknowledged that he had to eat his words, which was the right thing to do. In this industry, often you can't count on a route launch being certain until the aircraft has its wheels up on the inaugural. Nothing different here. Circumstances change, and airlines adjust accordingly. Pretending that the route launch was a conspiracy and wasn't ever being planned in earnest is just silly, and completely ignores the market dynamics and uncertainty surrounding the future of 9W. You can question winginit's credibility if you want, but based on reading many of your comments in various threads over the months and years, I'm not sure you all are considered to be especially credible posters here either...
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