UPDATED: Delta announces JFK-BOM

IPFreely · Sun May 27, 2018 2:28 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
I get why UA is successful on EWR-BOM without having connections on the BOM end (EWR is a strong hub and EWR-BOM has strong O&D on both ends).

Why do you think UA has no feed on the BOM end?

Irehdna · Sun May 27, 2018 2:38 am

IPFreely wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
I get why UA is successful on EWR-BOM without having connections on the BOM end (EWR is a strong hub and EWR-BOM has strong O&D on both ends).

Why do you think UA has no feed on the BOM end?

Even though AI no longer has a real hub at BOM, UA codeshares a lot with 9W, who has a major hub at BOM. There is a good deal of 9W feeder traffic at BOM, and it would be interesting how DL affects this.

KLMatSJC · Sun May 27, 2018 3:26 am

Irehdna wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
I get why UA is successful on EWR-BOM without having connections on the BOM end (EWR is a strong hub and EWR-BOM has strong O&D on both ends).

Why do you think UA has no feed on the BOM end?

Even though AI no longer has a real hub at BOM, UA codeshares a lot with 9W, who has a major hub at BOM. There is a good deal of 9W feeder traffic at BOM, and it would be interesting how DL affects this.

It looks like they are selling tickets on Vistara now too. Won't really help out of BOM but will be adequate from DEL.

flyfresno · Sun May 27, 2018 9:19 am

I don’t think anyone can disagree on this: they definitely put their money where their mouth is!

I saw somewhere that DEL is pushing for ATL service (I thought they said it was the top unserved US market?), but not sure about BOM. It will be interesting to see which one they pick!

panamair · Sun May 27, 2018 10:07 am

Irehdna wrote:
Even though AI no longer has a real hub at BOM, UA codeshares a lot with 9W, who has a major hub at BOM. There is a good deal of 9W feeder traffic at BOM, and it would be interesting how DL affects this.

Actually, UA does not codeshare with 9W at all, it's just an interline relationship.

LAX772LR · Sun May 27, 2018 10:36 am

flyfresno wrote:
I saw somewhere that DEL is pushing for ATL service

Chances are, they'd have to get AI or 9W to do it.

Granted, who knows what DL's long term plans are; but one thing that's consistent is that DL's never demonstrated any interest in DEL, despite having attempting 6 different routes to India on its own metal. Five were to BOM, the other to MAA.

Alphazone · Sun May 27, 2018 11:17 am

DL should try DTW-BOM because already failed JFK- / ATL-BOM and in addition to connections DTW offers a large local market.

lavalampluva · Sun May 27, 2018 11:28 am

DTW is not the center of the aviation world.

NZ321 · Sun May 27, 2018 11:32 am

No but DTW it is a fine airport with a better passenger experience than ATL and closer to a larger slice of the population in North America. But either way will be interesting with their return to BOM. I think the implication above from some is that DL is as close to a quality long haul carrier as they come. Personally, I never flew them. Why? Old equipment and tight seating in Y class and then I got into Star and Oneworld with business class flying and so DL is not on my radar for regular flying, but I'd love to give them a go. Overall, I think that AA and UA leave so much to be desired that I try to avoid them at all costs on my long haul sectors. Just had too many bad experiences. Be nice to see a US long-haul carrier that can honestly hold itself up and say, we are a 4-5 star airline with a consistently good quality of service on long haul flights like BOM. DL seems to be heading in that direction. And it would be nice to see DL extend it's network to include AKL. Maybe ATL-AKL-SYD. Just as an aside.

CaliguyNYC · Sun May 27, 2018 2:08 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
I asked a businessman that lives here in the DFW area if he wished there was non-stop service to India from the US.

He said no. He, like many people from India have ties to the UK and have relatives in the UK. So, it makes sense for him to stop over in the UK, on the way to India, to catch up with family and friends.

Come on this is just one person. Trust me “most” indians do not have close relatives in the UK and “most” indians do not break up their trips to India with stops in the EU (professionals only get 2-3 weeks off - they might visit BOM/DEL plus their home Indian town/city). Indians are just like everyone else - they have different needs. Some want cheap flights and don’t care about IRROS or where/whom they fly. Others, just like most Americans and Europeans, prefer nonstops, want service that fits their culture, airlines that value them, FF programs, like connecting in their home country or destination country, flight times that do not involve departures / arrivals between 11pm and 6am, etc. India used to be very backward in aviation so INdian pax had to “take” what they got. With liberalization, trust me, India will start to look like other markets.

binayak · Sun May 27, 2018 4:35 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:

Come on this is just one person. Trust me “most” indians do not have close relatives in the UK and “most” indians do not break up their trips to India with stops in the EU (professionals only get 2-3 weeks off - they might visit BOM/DEL plus their home Indian town/city). Indians are just like everyone else - they have different needs. Some want cheap flights and don’t care about IRROS or where/whom they fly. Others, just like most Americans and Europeans, prefer nonstops, want service that fits their culture, airlines that value them, FF programs, like connecting in their home country or destination country, flight times that do not involve departures / arrivals between 11pm and 6am, etc. India used to be very backward in aviation so INdian pax had to “take” what they got. With liberalization, trust me, India will start to look like other markets.

You've been saying this umpteen times but the listeners are the ones who without any proper analysis continue to think that Indians just fly ME3. The success of AI in USA specially SFO should speak that what we actually want is different from what we are getting. We've tried EK, liked its service, but after a point of time tired of having a 3hour layover at DXB. It's the same thing for Indians living in India too.
I can bet people here that even if some of their Indian "friends" claim flying the ME3 in JFK India route forever, will some day try the DL 9W combination via BOM.
No one knew in 2015 that some day AI 's three weekly flights to SFO will some day become nine weekly.

Atlwarrior · Sun May 27, 2018 5:16 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
In case anyone is interested, here are the largest foreign born Indian communities in the US. This is foreign born only:

1. New York: 361,910 people
2. Bay Area: 249,903
3. Chicago: 142,508
4. Dallas: 108,570
5. Washington DC: 104,432
6. Los Angeles: 94,007
7. Philadelphia: 82,091
8. Houston: 75,609
9. Atlanta: 64,614

Source and what year.

evanb · Sun May 27, 2018 5:36 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
I didn't say anything about them being fully depreciated, I said they're paid off.
The two aren't synonymous: one's a measure of cost, the other a measure of value.

Where is your evidence that they're paid off? You're very quick to ask other people for evidence when the make assertions. Please provide some evidence or data to show that they are paid off.

LAX772LR · Sun May 27, 2018 6:04 pm

evanb wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
I didn't say anything about them being fully depreciated, I said they're paid off.
The two aren't synonymous: one's a measure of cost, the other a measure of value.

Where is your evidence that they're paid off? You're very quick to ask other people for evidence when the make assertions. Please provide some evidence or data to show that they are paid off.

Admittedly that was an assumption on my part, based on the Grinstein era's tendency to finance acquisitions on a scale that would've already seen a 2006 order paid off.

Did just ask elsewhere. Confirmed that some of them are paid, but not all; by asking a poster on PPRune who's in a position to know.

Can I provide any tangible corroboration to satisfy your specific request? No.
Do I have the slightest concern with how you feel about it? Of course not.
Does the original assertion then hold for the sake of arguing the issue of efficiency? To an extent, depending on utilization.
Will you attempt to further flog this horse to make yourself feel validated? Remains to be seen.....

DIRECTFLT · Sun May 27, 2018 9:02 pm

Lootess wrote:
Yeah, DL is culturally sensitive. When ATL-DXB was running, it was Emirates that catered for Delta at DXB. Korea is just one example because ICN is part of a JV and they have to compliment Korean Air when they ran the A380.

The 777s are getting exactly what the A350s have now, so the inflight product will be consistent.

9W is now very close to Delta, so everything will easily be taken care of from an Indian service standpoint right away, in-fact their recent CEO was an Asian VP at Delta.

DIRECTFLT wrote:
I asked a businessman that lives here in the DFW area if he wished there was non-stop service to India from the US.

He said no. He, like many people from India have ties to the UK and have relatives in the UK. So, it makes sense for him to stop over in the UK, on the way to India, to catch up with family and friends.

We could use more US no stops, even ATL-DXB had many Indian connections sent on Emirates. Lots of US companies have round the clock support thanks to branch offices in places like Mumbai, Delhi, and Bangalore.

Yes, I have spoken to 'John' and 'Bill' on numerous occasions, late at night... 8-)

phluser · Sun May 27, 2018 9:38 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
I asked a businessman that lives here in the DFW area if he wished there was non-stop service to India from the US.

He said no. He, like many people from India have ties to the UK and have relatives in the UK. So, it makes sense for him to stop over in the UK, on the way to India, to catch up with family and friends.

Come on this is just one person. Trust me “most” indians do not have close relatives in the UK and “most” indians do not break up their trips to India with stops in the EU (professionals only get 2-3 weeks off - they might visit BOM/DEL plus their home Indian town/city). Indians are just like everyone else - they have different needs. Some want cheap flights and don’t care about IRROS or where/whom they fly. Others, just like most Americans and Europeans, prefer nonstops, want service that fits their culture, airlines that value them, FF programs, like connecting in their home country or destination country, flight times that do not involve departures / arrivals between 11pm and 6am, etc. India used to be very backward in aviation so INdian pax had to “take” what they got. With liberalization, trust me, India will start to look like other markets.

For pax of Indian citizenship, transiting in UK requires a transit visa, which is a hassle to get. Many avoid transiting in LHR also because of the additional screening and the terminal setup, but the transit visa a big deterrent from the Indian and H1B point of sale.

phluser · Sun May 27, 2018 10:30 pm

tphuang wrote:
And as repeated many times before, wealthier Indian expats are more concentrated in New Jersey.

How do you know that? I'd wager to guess that there are just more Indian expats in New Jersey, than say Long Island, but the very wealthy Indian expats in that market, would likely be owning property and living in NYC.

LAXdude1023 · Mon May 28, 2018 12:03 am

Atlwarrior wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
In case anyone is interested, here are the largest foreign born Indian communities in the US. This is foreign born only:

1. New York: 361,910 people
2. Bay Area: 249,903
3. Chicago: 142,508
4. Dallas: 108,570
5. Washington DC: 104,432
6. Los Angeles: 94,007
7. Philadelphia: 82,091
8. Houston: 75,609
9. Atlanta: 64,614

Source and what year.

2016 is the year and source is American Community Survey table B05006.

klm617 · Mon May 28, 2018 12:42 am

The only logical add is DTW-BOM. In the ATL-BOM market Delta can not compete with TK and QR and in the NYC-BOM there is just to much low fare competition and with the Indian population increasing in the metro Detroit area daily and the new opening of the Mahindra plant and no real DTW-India low fare competition except WOW Air anything thing less than DTW-BOM will be another failure

klm617 · Mon May 28, 2018 12:46 am

lavalampluva wrote:
DTW is not the center of the aviation world.

Neither is ATL but NYC is for sure. DTW stands the best chance for success if Delta returns to India.

MIAFLLPBIFlyer · Mon May 28, 2018 12:50 am

One reliable feature of A.net now as I post and for years as a lurker is the prevalence of DTW fanboys. Makes us MIA proponents who are often over the top look rational by comparison.

The flight will either be from JFK or ATL. I really don't see much logic DTW at all though I guess since RJ ended India service and since none of the ME3 or TK go to DTW you could make a case for it being linked AFTER either JFK or ATL service begins. That is if DL wants to tie up two more wide bodies.

tphuang · Mon May 28, 2018 12:51 am

phluser wrote:
tphuang wrote:
And as repeated many times before, wealthier Indian expats are more concentrated in New Jersey.

How do you know that? I'd wager to guess that there are just more Indian expats in New Jersey, than say Long Island, but the very wealthy Indian expats in that market, would likely be owning property and living in NYC.

If you walk around in Jersey city, where a lot of investment banks moved their operation after 9/11, there are a lot of Indian ethnic people living there. If you walk around Upper East side, where the old money is, or Upper West Side or midtown or Union Square, there just aren't as many. A lot of this really has to do with where most of the finance/tech companies are located and also the fact that Indian expats tend to be more likely in a family. Families like to move out of Manhattan for bigger places. A little that's my experience with my Indian colleagues. The great majority live in Jersey.

klm617 · Mon May 28, 2018 12:51 am

777Mech wrote:
klakzky123 wrote:
Presumably JFK and maybe ATL? Agree on DL needing to stop talking about the ME3.

In the celebration at the museum, Ed stated it would be from one of the east coast hubs. I'm assuming it would be JFK or ATL. Much to the dismay of the DTW crowd.

Ed says a lot of stuff that never materializes but suit the ocastion

lavalampluva · Mon May 28, 2018 2:52 am

klm617 wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
DTW is not the center of the aviation world.

Neither is ATL but NYC is for sure. DTW stands the best chance for success if Delta returns to India.

What proof do you have? That Detroit has the largest population of Asian Indians outside of India?

Listen... I’ve never flown through DTW and I’m sure it’s a nice airport, but DL is going to fly a route that has the highest chance of making $$$. ATL serves the most number of cities in the US. But let’s see what happens.

deltal1011man · Mon May 28, 2018 2:56 am

Wow this thread became a mess. (I'm shocked)

I'tll be JFK-BOM on the LR. With ATL-NRT moving to the 359 delta doesn't have the 350 capacity to start BOM in 2019, unless they change something around. I imagine they will do an ATL 777 turn on the same flight number as well.

klm617 wrote:
The only logical add is DTW-BOM. In the ATL-BOM market Delta can not compete with TK and QR and in the NYC-BOM there is just to much low fare competition and with the Indian population increasing in the metro Detroit area daily and the new opening of the Mahindra plant and no real DTW-India low fare competition except WOW Air anything thing less than DTW-BOM will be another failure

Lol
Can't even figure out what airlines are larger to what regions but is an expert route planner.

aemoreira1981 · Mon May 28, 2018 4:08 am

Nola wrote:
Irehdna wrote:
Though to be fair, launching ATL-BOM before ATL-TLV is somewhat interesting. However, I don't know how much connecting demand there would be for ATL-TLV.

Delta seems to be very happy with the yields on JFK-TLV service and adding ATL-TLV would surely dilute them. DL's JFK connectivity to most of the eastern US probably rules out ATL-TLV as, whether out of ATL or JFK, it's a one connection trip. Probably the same, although a longer trip, from the west coast, although from there the option of flying through JFK is really no different than the option of flying through AMS and CDG (although the seating is certainly different).

JFK to TLV is also a huge O&D market, as the NYC metro area has the largest Jewish population in the world that isn't in Israel. For LY, a full 1/3 of their business is on TLV to JFK/EWR.

Now, as for ATL, I know that there are some weird East Coast wide-body revenue ferries (AA has sometimes flown MIA-JFK on a B77W - and that almost always sees an internationally-configured plane - and ATL-JFK on DL can get anything from a 737-800 to an A330-300HGW), but what are the odds of a through routing ATL-JFK-BOM on the B77L, given that currently, all usual 77L flights are from ATL excluding Australia service from LAX?

Another question I will ask: how will freight capability be, given that the 77L has less space for cargo than the 77E or 77W? When there are more A359s, perhaps it could shift to the A359.

LAX772LR · Mon May 28, 2018 7:13 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
given that the 77L has less space for cargo than the 77E

No it doesn't.

They both offer the exact same cargo capacity: 151 cubic metres.

DarkSnowyNight · Mon May 28, 2018 9:08 am

LAX772LR wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
given that the 77L has less space for cargo than the 77E

No it doesn't.

They both offer the exact same cargo capacity: 151 cubic metres.

Not to mention the 77L's superior payload range. ..

gokmengs · Mon May 28, 2018 9:58 am

I'm surprised whenever a carrier starts a new International destination people focus so much on the VFR side of things and mention population by that demographic etc, I've seen this come up especially when TK launches a destination and or a thread like this. While VFR doesn't hurt for sure a destination like BOM does attract a bunch of pax going there for business and vacation, and I think either location (JFK-ATL) will be a success. Good luck to DL, although I have to question the way they did the announcement with no set date, no specifics given, as if its just a ME3 agreement publicity stunt....

alfa164 · Mon May 28, 2018 10:01 am

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
One reliable feature of A.net now as I post and for years as a lurker is the prevalence of DTW fanboys. Makes us MIA proponents who are often over the top look rational by comparison. The flight will either be from JFK or ATL. I really don't see much logic DTW at all though I guess since RJ ended India service and since none of the ME3 or TK go to DTW you could make a case for it being linked AFTER either JFK or ATL service begins. That is if DL wants to tie up two more wide bodies.

In at least one case, I would say, "irrational DTW fanboy..."

LAXdude1023 wrote:
In case anyone is interested, here are the largest foreign born Indian communities in the US. This is foreign born only:

1. New York: 361,910 people
2. Bay Area: 249,903
3. Chicago: 142,508
4. Dallas: 108,570
5. Washington DC: 104,432
6. Los Angeles: 94,007
7. Philadelphia: 82,091
8. Houston: 75,609
9. Atlanta: 64,614

Somebody must have accidentally left DTW off that list. Or maybe it was a nefarious plot... :roll:

AntonioMartin · Mon May 28, 2018 10:45 am

Glad 2 see m,y favorite airline, Delta, return to one of the most populated places in earth, BOM!

(as an aside if you are at an airport and flying to Mumbai, I bet you cant say "Im going to BOM"")

binayak · Mon May 28, 2018 10:57 am

AntonioMartin wrote:
(as an aside if you are at an airport and flying to Mumbai, I bet you cant say "Im going to BOM"")

I hope the upcoming new airport at Mumbai shall remove this confusion. The only city in the world whose airport code can't be pronounced at an airport.

aemoreira1981 · Mon May 28, 2018 12:13 pm

gokmengs wrote:
I'm surprised whenever a carrier starts a new International destination people focus so much on the VFR side of things and mention population by that demographic etc, I've seen this come up especially when TK launches a destination and or a thread like this. While VFR doesn't hurt for sure a destination like BOM does attract a bunch of pax going there for business and vacation, and I think either location (JFK-ATL) will be a success. Good luck to DL, although I have to question the way they did the announcement with no set date, no specifics given, as if its just a ME3 agreement publicity stunt....

However, it is notable here that BOM is a major 9W hub and there would be connections in the region as well...such as onward to BKK, where 9W operates 3x daily on narrow-body aircraft, as well as almost anywhere in India. The arrival at each end could be timed to be in the morning to allow connections to 9W's morning or afternoon bank at BOM or DL's morning bank at JFK.

On a connection to DTW, I'd expect that a JFK-DTW flight will become mainline primarily for the connection.

cha747 · Mon May 28, 2018 1:08 pm

klm617 wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
DTW is not the center of the aviation world.

Neither is ATL but NYC is for sure. DTW stands the best chance for success if Delta returns to India.

The world's busiest airport for 20 years is not the center of the aviation world? What have you been smoking.

It doesn't matter ATL, JFK, DTW, SEA - the fact of the matter is that DL is now heading back at a much different time. At one point DL, NW/KLM, UA, and AA were all in this market along with Tower Air (remember that??). It's a different time in a different world. Personally, I'm looking forward to what DL will do to set this route apart because they will have to have top notch service at bottom notch price in order to woo cheap Indians (yours truly included - even when I book in C/D) to fly their metal. I have no dog in the fight but if I had to bet money, it would be ATL first and JFK second. Why? The figures show ATL has lower O&D from the NYC Metro area but the connection traffic in a 500 mile radius of ATL to BOM can't be insignificant.

dtw2hyd · Mon May 28, 2018 1:53 pm

cha747 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
DTW is not the center of the aviation world.

Neither is ATL but NYC is for sure. DTW stands the best chance for success if Delta returns to India.

The world's busiest airport for 20 years is not the center of the aviation world? What have you been smoking.

It doesn't matter ATL, JFK, DTW, SEA - the fact of the matter is that DL is now heading back at a much different time. At one point DL, NW/KLM, UA, and AA were all in this market along with Tower Air (remember that??). It's a different time in a different world. Personally, I'm looking forward to what DL will do to set this route apart because they will have to have top notch service at bottom notch price in order to woo cheap Indians (yours truly included - even when I book in C/D) to fly their metal. I have no dog in the fight but if I had to bet money, it would be ATL first and JFK second. Why? The figures show ATL has lower O&D from the NYC Metro area but the connection traffic in a 500 mile radius of ATL to BOM can't be insignificant.

Just for brainstorming. Ignoring highly publicized 2000 census, DTW-India would beat other routes in yields in all classes, less competition and best US airport to connect.

I am a OK with JFK, though I sincerely doubt Y class yields. In future DL should try ATL 4 weekly and DTW 3 weekly to test both markets.

IPFreely · Mon May 28, 2018 1:57 pm

klm617 wrote:
777Mech wrote:
In the celebration at the museum, Ed stated it would be from one of the east coast hubs. I'm assuming it would be JFK or ATL. Much to the dismay of the DTW crowd.

Ed says a lot of stuff that never materializes but suit the ocastion

Have to agree with klm on this. Lots of people still recall Ed saying DL would be getting a $50,000,000 reimbursement from Georgia Power; that ended up costing him a lot of credibility. Still, I suspect the odds on a flight to India -- if it really happens -- are about 60% ATL, 40% JFK, and 0% anywhere else. All things being equal, DL will stuff every connecting passenger possible into ATL over every other hub. And ATL, and the southeast US, doesn't have competition to India from UA and AI at JFK/EWR.

RR503 · Mon May 28, 2018 2:08 pm

tphuang wrote:
phluser wrote:
tphuang wrote:
And as repeated many times before, wealthier Indian expats are more concentrated in New Jersey.

How do you know that? I'd wager to guess that there are just more Indian expats in New Jersey, than say Long Island, but the very wealthy Indian expats in that market, would likely be owning property and living in NYC.

If you walk around in Jersey city, where a lot of investment banks moved their operation after 9/11, there are a lot of Indian ethnic people living there. If you walk around Upper East side, where the old money is, or Upper West Side or midtown or Union Square, there just aren't as many. A lot of this really has to do with where most of the finance/tech companies are located and also the fact that Indian expats tend to be more likely in a family. Families like to move out of Manhattan for bigger places. A little that's my experience with my Indian colleagues. The great majority live in Jersey.

This is true, yes, but there are also sizable Indian communities in Queens (Jackson Heights) and Long Island.

Coming from one of these NY-area Indian expat families, I'd also like to add that the loyalty is much more towards the ME3 -- which are all JFK based -- than it is to UA. UA charges inordinately large sums for their nonstop while offering a truly awful onboard experience (hate to rely on anecdotal evidence, but never flown 48/49 without having some broken toilet incident on the plane).

I think it's also worth noting that there are significantly more Bangladeshis in NYC than Indians. Delta should be looking at a codeshare with Jet to Chittagong, Calcutta and Dhaka.

Spiderguy252 · Mon May 28, 2018 3:14 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Granted, who knows what DL's long term plans are; but one thing that's consistent is that DL's never demonstrated any interest in DEL, despite having attempting 6 different routes to India on its own metal. Five were to BOM, the other to MAA.

I can list:

JFK-BOM
ATL-BOM
JFK-AMS-BOM

Which were the other two, including the one to MAA?

MIAFLLPBIFlyer · Mon May 28, 2018 3:17 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Granted, who knows what DL's long term plans are; but one thing that's consistent is that DL's never demonstrated any interest in DEL, despite having attempting 6 different routes to India on its own metal. Five were to BOM, the other to MAA.

I can list:

JFK-BOM
ATL-BOM
JFK-AMS-BOM

Which were the other two, including the one to MAA?

JFK-CDG-MAA
ATL-CDG-BOM
JFK-FRA-BOM (ran as double daily one winter season in the early 2000s)

vadodara · Mon May 28, 2018 3:18 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
I get why UA is successful on EWR-BOM without having connections on the BOM end (EWR is a strong hub and EWR-BOM has strong O&D on both ends). If you believe JFK is a weaker hub for DL than EWR is for UA, ATL might be the origin for the flight. I would say what is missing from India-US flight options today are connections on the India side. AI, and to a lessor extent the ME3, have all benefitting from having flight options that land in India at times when you can connect on (by plane, car, train). What else can explain the success of AI’s nonstops (other than preference of some O&D for the nonstop option). Most of the EU flights get into BOM way too late for most connections (I think its like BLR, AMD and maybe DEL for 9W). Who wants to wait 6 hours to connect. IF JFK-BOM is timed right, DL would be able to offer a slew of Indian cities. If you are going IND-CCU you have at least a two stop flight no matter how you cut it. DL could offer a two stop connection with short connections in JFK and BOM that finally competes with ME3 and is better than what EU carriers can offer (because they have long overnight connections in BOM). So in summary I think DL should go for JFK over ATL since JFK/BOM premium pax plus potential both end connections is a better mix than even more connections at ATL with less premium pax.

DLmay haven been a whiner in the past but can’t fault them for wanting to try.

All the Jet flights as JV’s to LHR, AMS and CDG seem to be promising.

Alphazone · Mon May 28, 2018 4:58 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:
JFK-AMS-BOM

What do you mean JFK-AMS-BOM, it was DTW crew who flew AMS-BOM.

Spiderguy252 · Mon May 28, 2018 5:56 pm

Alphazone wrote:
Spiderguy252 wrote:
JFK-AMS-BOM

What do you mean JFK-AMS-BOM, it was DTW crew who flew AMS-BOM.

I was referring to DL's same plane 767 service on JFK-AMS-BOM until recently. (2016?)

klm617 · Mon May 28, 2018 6:07 pm

alfa164 wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
One reliable feature of A.net now as I post and for years as a lurker is the prevalence of DTW fanboys. Makes us MIA proponents who are often over the top look rational by comparison. The flight will either be from JFK or ATL. I really don't see much logic DTW at all though I guess since RJ ended India service and since none of the ME3 or TK go to DTW you could make a case for it being linked AFTER either JFK or ATL service begins. That is if DL wants to tie up two more wide bodies.

In at least one case, I would say, "irrational DTW fanboy..."

LAXdude1023 wrote:
In case anyone is interested, here are the largest foreign born Indian communities in the US. This is foreign born only:

1. New York: 361,910 people
2. Bay Area: 249,903
3. Chicago: 142,508
4. Dallas: 108,570
5. Washington DC: 104,432
6. Los Angeles: 94,007
7. Philadelphia: 82,091
8. Houston: 75,609
9. Atlanta: 64,614

Somebody must have accidentally left DTW off that list. Or maybe it was a nefarious plot...

No but you can't make sound business choices on data that is 3 to 4 years old.

klm617 · Mon May 28, 2018 6:14 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
cha747 wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Neither is ATL but NYC is for sure. DTW stands the best chance for success if Delta returns to India.

The world's busiest airport for 20 years is not the center of the aviation world? What have you been smoking.

It doesn't matter ATL, JFK, DTW, SEA - the fact of the matter is that DL is now heading back at a much different time. At one point DL, NW/KLM, UA, and AA were all in this market along with Tower Air (remember that??). It's a different time in a different world. Personally, I'm looking forward to what DL will do to set this route apart because they will have to have top notch service at bottom notch price in order to woo cheap Indians (yours truly included - even when I book in C/D) to fly their metal. I have no dog in the fight but if I had to bet money, it would be ATL first and JFK second. Why? The figures show ATL has lower O&D from the NYC Metro area but the connection traffic in a 500 mile radius of ATL to BOM can't be insignificant.

Just for brainstorming. Ignoring highly publicized 2000 census, DTW-India would beat other routes in yields in all classes, less competition and best US airport to connect.

I am a OK with JFK, though I sincerely doubt Y class yields. In future DL should try ATL 4 weekly and DTW 3 weekly to test both markets.

Yes it would no ME3 competition to contend with and the WCAA has been looking to add a DTW-India link. Not really much in the way of direct India flights from the Midwest either. JFK-BOM would give DL the same advantage as the ME3 have to the smaller cities of India with one stop service with Jet Airways connections over BOM but the only advantage would be for NYC originating passengers.

FromCDGtoSYD · Mon May 28, 2018 6:51 pm

Lets say DL uses 77Ls on this route, realistically how would DL launch this from JFK, if it goes daily they would need to commit 2 77Ls to JFK, not too sure DL would do that.

Does DTW have any 77Ls ? If not I see only ATL getting this route, unless they decide on a ATL-BOM-JFK-BOM-ATL for example.

My 2 cents

binayak · Mon May 28, 2018 7:12 pm

777Mech wrote:

Also, I wouldn't be surprised to see 9W on BOS-BOM soon as well.

Wait for 9W to take the deliveries of their B789's. Currently as per 9W's fleet BOS BOM isn't possible on a 77W. Boston might not be the first destination they'll choose but maybe second or third once the long range aircrafts are delivered.

LAX772LR · Mon May 28, 2018 10:10 pm

Antarius wrote:
DTW is much smaller than other major metropolitan areas, and as a result, isn't the center of the USA aviation world.

Heck, it isn't even the center of DL's world... it's only their 3rd largest hub, and also their 3rd largest foreign gateway.

RTW00 · Tue May 29, 2018 12:49 am

It's a great news! Good competition to UA and AI on non-stop to BOM.

I always wonder why airlines don't announce the cities- or it is just for A netters to guess and debate for few days!

I think it will be JFK as there is no direct service to BOM and DL has a strong base to JFK (AI has a non-stop to DEL and one stop to BOM). EWR has both AI and UA to BOM no-stop. If this is the case- let's see if AI will be able to continue the JFK service.

BOM is an obvious choice due to Jet... but need to time in a way to provide a better connection to other cities. From EWR, AI flight reaches BOM at around 2 PM which gives better connection as compared to UA reaching around 9 PM and not very easy (and preferred) connection to other cities as very late night arrivals.

With this BOM will be well connected with US through Skyteam- AMS (Jet/KLM), CDG (Jet/AF), LHR (Virgin/Jet) and now direct with DL. Great Strategy!

dtw2hyd · Tue May 29, 2018 2:06 am

If this discussion need to be limited to Ed Bastian's comments, ATL is neither in the east nor at a coast. JFK it is.

However, here are few advantages with DTW if Delta want to consider.
No competition from ME3
No competition from One World (no one-stops)
Highest average fares to India.
Best Delta hub to connect in the USA
Best all weather Delta hub.

DeSpringbokke · Tue May 29, 2018 2:06 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
If this discussion need to be limited to Ed Bastian's comments, ATL is neither in the east nor at a coast.

Uh, its in the Eastern time zone, as is the entire state of Georgia, which is on the Atlantic Coastal Plain.

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