sgbroimp wrote:

gatibosgru wrote:

One of the many reasons DL is my go-to carrier.

And one of several reasons why they are NOT mine. I will take LH and SIA's dispatch and OT reliability, clean toilets and 4 engines on younger aircraft over the drink light years before I even think of Delta. But, hey, everybody is entitled to their choice and I don't mock anyone for feeling differently.

NORMAL PEOPLE chose their air carrier by the following factors: PRICE, SCHEDULE, AVAILABILITY...... if the selection process involved dispatch history, toilet condition, and age of aircraft, your travel needs are driven by factors that do not apply to 97% of traveling public.

TSS wrote:

N353SK wrote:

wjcandee wrote:

Someone mentioned spare parts. The MD90s are apparently going bye-bye due to the unavailability of reasonably-priced engine overhauls and parts for those overhauls. This materially changes the fly-it/park-it analysis. Also, a reputation for being happy to refurbish older aircraft works as a stalking horse when negotiating to purchase new ones.

Any details on this? MD-90 uses the V2500 engine, which is the same engine used on about 40% of A320s. Granted, the MD-90 uses a different sub variant, but is it that different?

I assumed "MD90" was a typo in place of MD(-)80, in which case N353SK's comment would apply to P&W JT8D engines. AA's retirement of around 450 (I'm sure someone will chime in with the exact number) MD-80s made the bottom fall out of the JT8D parts market.

No it is the MD90 that is having engine overhaul cost problems. The problem isn't the parts cost. I think only two shops in the world do heavy work on this sub variant of the V2500. There isn't enough volume of work due to the small world wide fleet. Neither what the work so they are pricing it very high.

Too bad, I've flown this very MD-90 (charter BLQ - ARN for the new Volvo V70 lauch event) back in 2008 and it was a wonderful airplane imho. Very quiet.

mackdad wrote:

DeSpringbokke wrote:

Regarding to the 747 retirement. Delta was planning to park the final 747s this year, as they had some 747s with the nitroglycerin tank modification. .

Don't you mean Nitrogen? Nitroglycerin wouldn't make for a safe plane ride.

The nitroglycerin mod is what Hollywood does to make airplane explosions look more spectacular (or anything else, for that matter, such as a random bicycle tripping over a curb).

WkndWanderer wrote:

sgbroimp wrote:

gatibosgru wrote:

One of the many reasons DL is my go-to carrier.

And one of several reasons why they are NOT mine. I will take LH and SIA's dispatch and OT reliability, clean toilets and 4 engines on younger aircraft over the drink light years before I even think of Delta. But, hey, everybody is entitled to their choice and I don't mock anyone for feeling differently.

LH operates dozens of ~20 year old+ aircraft. Have they ever had a practice of parking narrow body aircraft (other than the 737-500's) prior to 20-25 years in recent memory? They have plenty of A320's already in that category, and I think all of their 737-300 fleet spent at least 20-25 years in service.

Not on my main run JFK-FRA. A380's and 747-8' s are all I have seen for past 3-4 years. Look at Delta's fleet average age vs. LH's and especially SIA's. No contest to my way of thinking. I do agree Delta's refirbs and maintenance are good, no question.

xdlx wrote:

sgbroimp wrote:

gatibosgru wrote:

One of the many reasons DL is my go-to carrier.

And one of several reasons why they are NOT mine. I will take LH and SIA's dispatch and OT reliability, clean toilets and 4 engines on younger aircraft over the drink light years before I even think of Delta. But, hey, everybody is entitled to their choice and I don't mock anyone for feeling differently.

NORMAL PEOPLE chose their air carrier by the following factors: PRICE, SCHEDULE, AVAILABILITY...... if the selection process involved dispatch history, toilet condition, and age of aircraft, your travel needs are driven by factors that do not apply to 97% of traveling public.

and 4 engines.......Yep, that's me Mr 3%.

F9Animal wrote:

sgbroimp wrote:

gatibosgru wrote:

One of the many reasons DL is my go-to carrier.

And one of several reasons why they are NOT mine. I will take LH and SIA's dispatch and OT reliability, clean toilets and 4 engines on younger aircraft over the drink light years before I even think of Delta. But, hey, everybody is entitled to their choice and I don't mock anyone for feeling differently.

Of course you are entitled to an opinion. I am not a Delta fanboy, but.. I applaud the airline for keeping their fleet looking good. God knows I have flown on planes with some questionable interiors that looked awful and dirty. Me personally? Give me a 20 plus year old plane with a new interior any day. As for clean toilets? My last flight on Delta had a pretty clean toilet!

My clean toilet test: How do they look 3,4 5,6 and 7 hours in????

vorellanaj wrote:

I'm surprised about used A319. Engine choice is irrelevant, AA have both engine choices.

Thanks for the remark.

Can you confirm AA is accepting used A319s with V2500s? AA made the wise move of CFM-56 for A319s and V2500 for A321, so they could buy used V2500 powered A319s, but are they?

DL should look into used A319s. With Easyjet returning so many to leasors, the prices have plummeted. Then again, considering how profitable DL is.. maybe their execs know something I don't...

Here's a pic I took of a refurbished DL A320. It looks like a brand new aircraft without the new plane smell.

lightsaber wrote:

vorellanaj wrote:

I'm surprised about used A319. Engine choice is irrelevant, AA have both engine choices.

Thanks for the remark.

Can you confirm AA is accepting used A319s with V2500s? AA made the wise move of CFM-56 for A319s and V2500 for A321, so they could buy used V2500 powered A319s, but are they?

DL should look into used A319s. With Easyjet returning so many to leasors, the prices have plummeted. Then again, considering how profitable DL is.. maybe their execs know something I don't...

And former HP units are CFM56 powered? No. 39 A319 are V2500 powered.

vorellanaj wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

vorellanaj wrote:

I'm surprised about used A319. Engine choice is irrelevant, AA have both engine choices.

Thanks for the remark.

Can you confirm AA is accepting used A319s with V2500s? AA made the wise move of CFM-56 for A319s and V2500 for A321, so they could buy used V2500 powered A319s, but are they?

DL should look into used A319s. With Easyjet returning so many to leasors, the prices have plummeted. Then again, considering how profitable DL is.. maybe their execs know something I don't...

And former HP units are CFM56 powered? No. 39 A319 are V2500 powered.

Mixed fleet is cheap. Whatever deal is best for DL or AA. I might be a Pratt fan, but I realize how few of the other engine is required for economy of scale.

Lightsaber

AA is getting some used A319s from Frontier.

Boof02671 wrote:

AA is getting some used A319s from Frontier.

The reason AA is buying is so many are selling. It doesn't matter who is selling when the largest opperator of the A319 is returning aircraft. U2 timed well for NEO EIS.

jscottwomack wrote:

There are a LOT of former Northwest people at Delta. Northwest was the master of keeping older aircraft flying. They had 35 year old DC9's flying back in the day.

And if you'd walked onto one of those DC9s after a refurb, it looked brand spankin' new inside, too ... the only giveaway of the age were the very 60s looking PSUs overhead.

litz wrote:

jscottwomack wrote:

There are a LOT of former Northwest people at Delta. Northwest was the master of keeping older aircraft flying. They had 35 year old DC9's flying back in the day.

And if you'd walked onto one of those DC9s after a refurb, it looked brand spankin' new inside, too ... the only giveaway of the age were the very 60s looking PSUs overhead.

I have two NW Annual Report dated 1996 and 1997, which NW back then stated they have invested millions in updating their DC 9-30/40 cabin to bring them up to then-market standard. Those are really old birds then. Most US airlines at that time were still flying tons of MD and 737 Jurassic and Classic. Story changed when 9/11 happened. Some fleet got eliminated overnight.

WkndWanderer wrote:

sgbroimp wrote:

gatibosgru wrote:

One of the many reasons DL is my go-to carrier.

And one of several reasons why they are NOT mine. I will take LH and SIA's dispatch and OT reliability, clean toilets and 4 engines on younger aircraft over the drink light years before I even think of Delta. But, hey, everybody is entitled to their choice and I don't mock anyone for feeling differently.

LH operates dozens of ~20 year old+ aircraft. Have they ever had a practice of parking narrow body aircraft (other than the 737-500's) prior to 20-25 years in recent memory? They have plenty of A320's already in that category, and I think all of their 737-300 fleet spent at least 20-25 years in service.

Yes, LH is one of those few airlines that run their aircraft to ground before retiring or returning to lessor. They have a really high maintenance and service regime. No doubt, the LH Teknik provides MRO services to many airlines including many head of states and vips works.

To answer the original poster's question, the Airbus is far more comfortable and ergonomic than any other Boeing narrowbody, So it's a good investment when it pertains to their passengers.

Regarding the topic, you have to remember the A320-200 variant is still the gold standard in NB design 30 years after certification - not much has changed after 1988.

For DL to buy a brand new CEO model would be absurd, as there would only be about a 1-2% difference in fuel burn from their Nirvana era A320's, and with the ESG in place they'll easily stick around for another 15 years. We aren't talking about the 752's which will be gone after 2023 here - we're talking about earlier builds of the same variant rolling off the line by the hundreds today.

[twoid][/twoid]

Dalmd88 wrote:

TSS wrote:

N353SK wrote:

Any details on this? MD-90 uses the V2500 engine, which is the same engine used on about 40% of A320s. Granted, the MD-90 uses a different sub variant, but is it that different?

I assumed "MD90" was a typo in place of MD(-)80, in which case N353SK's comment would apply to P&W JT8D engines. AA's retirement of around 450 (I'm sure someone will chime in with the exact number) MD-80s made the bottom fall out of the JT8D parts market.

No it is the MD90 that is having engine overhaul cost problems. The problem isn't the parts cost. I think only two shops in the world do heavy work on this sub variant of the V2500. There isn't enough volume of work due to the small world wide fleet. Neither what the work so they are pricing it very high.

It sounds like it is down to just one shop now (Christchurch)

Looks like MTU and Lufthansa have both shopped dealing with the D5

I could be wrong but that is my understanding (and it is a pretty recent change for LHT. I think MTU dumped support when Delta moved to Pratt in Christchurch)

Last thing I heard is it will either have to come in house (which Delta and IAE are both uninterested in) or they will be moving out the door a lot faster than originally planned.

deltal1011man wrote:

[twoid][/twoid]

Dalmd88 wrote:

TSS wrote:

I assumed "MD90" was a typo in place of MD(-)80, in which case N353SK's comment would apply to P&W JT8D engines. AA's retirement of around 450 (I'm sure someone will chime in with the exact number) MD-80s made the bottom fall out of the JT8D parts market.

No it is the MD90 that is having engine overhaul cost problems. The problem isn't the parts cost. I think only two shops in the world do heavy work on this sub variant of the V2500. There isn't enough volume of work due to the small world wide fleet. Neither what the work so they are pricing it very high.

It sounds like it is down to just one shop now (Christchurch)

Looks like MTU and Lufthansa have both shopped dealing with the D5

I could be wrong but that is my understanding (and it is a pretty recent change for LHT. I think MTU dumped support when Delta moved to Pratt in Christchurch)

Last thing I heard is it will either have to come in house (which Delta and IAE are both uninterested in) or they will be moving out the door a lot faster than originally planned.

Sounds like the last MD-90 will leave the fleet shortly after the last MD-88. Would Delta consider trying to keep some MD-88s past 2020 or is the end of 2020 a hard deadline? From what has been previously posted, it sounded more a like a hard deadline due to a required avionics? upgrade by December 31, 2020. The latest date I read for the MD-90 retirement is end of 2023. With the D5 engine boondoggle, looks like it will be much earlier than that. Wouldn't it be funny the last MD-90 leaves the fleet before the last MD-88. Delta is taking a hefty number of 737-900ERs and A321ceos in the 2018-2020 time frame in addition to the first 16 A321neos in 2020 and at least 35? CSeries in late 2018-2020. At least from a capacity standpoint, Delta has enough capacity coming in between now and the end of 2020 to not only replace all of the MD-88s but also the MD-90s and the expected 50 seater reductions, which I understand should fall below 100 aircraft by the end of next year, and still grow, albeit slightly. This is of course assuming the 757/A320 fleets remain unchanged until after 2020. With that heavy work on the 757 fleet in particular, shouldn't the fleet size remain the same until at least 2022, barring oil goes crazy? Regardless, it sounds like the faster the MD-88/90, in particular the 90 due to the D5 maintenance, go out the door, the better.