Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
PlanesNTrains wrote:They're lucky. Doesn't look like a very smooth resting place.
Gonzalo wrote:Live on the news now in Chile. "Pilot didn't know how complex is this airfield", according to the news. Apparently he/she didn´t hear about TA 390 ....
Rgds.
G.
Gonzalo wrote:Live on the news now in Chile. "Pilot didn't know how complex is this airfield", according to the news. Apparently he/she didn´t hear about TA 390 ....
Rgds.
G.
Aviano789 wrote:Gonzalo wrote:Live on the news now in Chile. "Pilot didn't know how complex is this airfield", according to the news. Apparently he/she didn´t hear about TA 390 ....
Rgds.
G.
MHTG akaTNT as that airport is called did add an additional 600 feet to Rwy 20 after the TA 390 accident.
Aviano789 wrote:Notice to Airman (NOTAM) must always be part of flight planning. If what you say is true about the pilot, then his ticket must be revoke.
trent772 wrote:yAviano789 wrote:Notice to Airman (NOTAM) must always be part of flight planning. If what you say is true about the pilot, then his ticket must be revoke.
Yeaaahhhh!! Revoke his license and throw him in jail, just like that, no investigation needed or anything, you seem to be a juggernaut of aviation knowledge, weren’t you firmly stating a couple or weeks ago that CFM56’s were dangerous for overwater flights?
Do you think a Notam is going to say “be careful, this is a challenging airport”?
What you’re suggesting is just BS and you show a complete lack of understanding how aviation works in general.
trent772 wrote:Aviano789 wrote:Notice to Airman (NOTAM) must always be part of flight planning. If what you say is true about the pilot, then his ticket must be revoke.
Yeaaahhhh!! Revoke his license and throw him in jail, just like that, no investigation needed or anything, you seem to be a juggernaut of aviation knowledge, weren’t you firmly stating a couple or weeks ago that CFM56’s were dangerous for overwater flights?
Do you think a Notam is going to say “be careful, this is a challenging airport”?
What you’re suggesting is just BS and you show a complete lack of understanding how aviation works in general.
AASAP777 wrote:
The very moment when the plane went out from the runway to that cliff.
Aviano789 wrote:trent772 wrote:yAviano789 wrote:Notice to Airman (NOTAM) must always be part of flight planning. If what you say is true about the pilot, then his ticket must be revoke.
Yeaaahhhh!! Revoke his license and throw him in jail, just like that, no investigation needed or anything, you seem to be a juggernaut of aviation knowledge, weren’t you firmly stating a couple or weeks ago that CFM56’s were dangerous for overwater flights?
Do you think a Notam is going to say “be careful, this is a challenging airport”?
What you’re suggesting is just BS and you show a complete lack of understanding how aviation works in general.
FYI The word “dangerous “ was never used in my post on CFM56 engines. I think you should serve your time studying what the term Discovery and Subpeona means in civil litigation.
AirlineCritic wrote:Can someone link to the airport maps? I'd like to understand the situation and where they came from.
CARST wrote:AirlineCritic wrote:Can someone link to the airport maps? I'd like to understand the situation and where they came from.
That is were the plane ended up apparently, overshot the single runway straight over its northern end...
And here is the full overview in Google Maps:
https://goo.gl/maps/5JTTBjjuPrJ2
Aviano789 wrote:trent772 wrote:Aviano789 wrote:Notice to Airman (NOTAM) must always be part of flight planning. If what you say is true about the pilot, then his ticket must be revoke.
Yeaaahhhh!! Revoke his license and throw him in jail, just like that, no investigation needed or anything, you seem to be a juggernaut of aviation knowledge, weren’t you firmly stating a couple or weeks ago that CFM56’s were dangerous for overwater flights?
Do you think a Notam is going to say “be careful, this is a challenging airport”?
What you’re suggesting is just BS and you show a complete lack of understanding how aviation works in general.
Dear Mr.or Ms. Trent772 Know it all:
The last time I check the Definition of NOTAM means the following:
A Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) is a notice filed with an aviation authority to alert aircraft pilots of potential hazards along a flight route or at a location that could affect the safety of the flight & even during ground operations.
trent772 wrote:Aviano789 wrote:trent772 wrote:
Yeaaahhhh!! Revoke his license and throw him in jail, just like that, no investigation needed or anything, you seem to be a juggernaut of aviation knowledge, weren’t you firmly stating a couple or weeks ago that CFM56’s were dangerous for overwater flights?
Do you think a Notam is going to say “be careful, this is a challenging airport”?
What you’re suggesting is just BS and you show a complete lack of understanding how aviation works in general.
Dear Mr.or Ms. Trent772 Know it all:
The last time I check the Definition of NOTAM means the following:
A Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) is a notice filed with an aviation authority to alert aircraft pilots of potential hazards along a flight route or at a location that could affect the safety of the flight & even during ground operations.
By the way, I’m sure he checked his Notams but these wouldn’t have informed this pilot wether the airfield was a challenging one or not, the Notams you’re refering to merely inform crew on the state of the equipment installed at the airfield, amendments to the runway declared distances, lighting, markings, fire fighting services and so on.
A good option would have been to get a thorough briefing from someone who had been there before or to check the Jeppesen airport briefing pages, there’s some very useful information on them. Most Airlines have very strict rules when operating into TNT, like Captain has to be the pilot flying, higher weather minimums than those published and the pilots have to have a special qualification that may require a couple of flights with a flight instructor or check airman.
All in all a very unfortunate turn of events for this crew and its passengers, TNT is indeed one of the most challenging airports in the world.
77H wrote:CARST wrote:AirlineCritic wrote:Can someone link to the airport maps? I'd like to understand the situation and where they came from.
That is were the plane ended up apparently, overshot the single runway straight over its northern end...
And here is the full overview in Google Maps:
https://goo.gl/maps/5JTTBjjuPrJ2
If there were ever a major commercial airport that needed an EMAS, this has to be in the top 5... Surprised an investment hasn’t been made.
One would think if the airlines serving TGU were to demand the aviation authority governing the airport to install one, I’d imagine they’d get it done.
I seem to remember a few islands in the South Pacific where airlines pulled service from airports until infrastructure improvements were made. I’m surprised the airline’s serving some of these more “challenging” airports aren’t getting demands from their insurance underwriters to pressure airports they serve to bring about improvements that improve safety and limit damage to aircraft.
77H
Aviano789 wrote:I think Honduran government should look for international financing to build a new airport on flat land elsewhere in the country and close that airport.
Guillaume787 wrote:The new Palmerola International Airport is being built by the Honduran Government to replace Toncontin airport:
https://www.airport-technology.com/proj ... l-airport/
The new terminal is expected to be operational in 2019.
Previously, Palmerola was used by the US Military as a base of operations in the 1980s and it currently houses between 500-600 U.S. troops.
CARST wrote:Are there plans to connect Palmerola to the city by train? 70-75 miles out is quite a distance and could be a killer for the project if the old airport stays open.
okie73 wrote:I’ve often wondered what the requirements are for business jet pilots to go in to TGU. At most US airlines, a captain has to go there twice with an experienced line check airman before being signed off to operate at that airport
Aviano789 wrote:trent772 wrote:Aviano789 wrote:Dear Mr.or Ms. Trent772 Know it all:
The last time I check the Definition of NOTAM means the following:
A Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) is a notice filed with an aviation authority to alert aircraft pilots of potential hazards along a flight route or at a location that could affect the safety of the flight & even during ground operations.
By the way, I’m sure he checked his Notams but these wouldn’t have informed this pilot wether the airfield was a challenging one or not, the Notams you’re refering to merely inform crew on the state of the equipment installed at the airfield, amendments to the runway declared distances, lighting, markings, fire fighting services and so on.
A good option would have been to get a thorough briefing from someone who had been there before or to check the Jeppesen airport briefing pages, there’s some very useful information on them. Most Airlines have very strict rules when operating into TNT, like Captain has to be the pilot flying, higher weather minimums than those published and the pilots have to have a special qualification that may require a couple of flights with a flight instructor or check airman.
All in all a very unfortunate turn of events for this crew and its passengers, TNT is indeed one of the most challenging airports in the world.
I have operated into TNT back in 80s & 90s at least 3 dozen times, and that was pre-TACA Flight 390 accident and prior to an additional 600-1000 feet was added to the Rwy. The lesson learned for a safe landing at that airport are as follows:
(1) A stabilized approach is must.
(2) Never come in hot
(3) Zero floating is permissible
(4) Exceptional spot landing skills comes into play, shooting for the numbers
(5) Recognize and abort an unstable approach early in the game that cannot be completed safely.
I have no solid evidence if this aircraft was equipped with CVR & FDR and if the flight was conducted pursuant to FAR Part 91, or Part 121. Other than an unexpected mechanical brake failure, investigators will likely find the foregoing 5 mention items are contributing factors to this accident.
Aviano789 wrote:okie73 wrote:I’ve often wondered what the requirements are for business jet pilots to go in to TGU. At most US airlines, a captain has to go there twice with an experienced line check airman before being signed off to operate at that airport
Nowadays some FAR Part 91, & 135 operators run their crews thru a few Sim sessions and they are good to go.