I wonder if this is really a smart strategy, maybe it's a first step in a new strategy? SQ has managed to keep up a high quality image passengers are willing to schedule / pay extra for. The Silkair part of this brand has now to compete with the AirAsia, Lionair and Jetstar LCC's. That could easily compromise Singapore Airlines brand value.. I expect further announcements.

keesje wrote:

I wonder if this is really a smart strategy, maybe it's a first step in a new strategy? SQ has managed to keep up a high quality image passengers are willing to schedule / pay extra for. The Silkair part of this brand has now to compete with the AirAsia, Lionair and Jetstar LCC's. That could easily compromise Singapore Airlines brand value.. I expect further announcements.

Scoot is meant to compete with the LCCs, not SQ. Adding SilkAir allows SQ to extend its brand to other cities and better match capacity with demand. There is no way adding flat beds to 737MAXs is to compete with LCCs.

keesje wrote:

I wonder if this is really a smart strategy, maybe it's a first step in a new strategy? SQ has managed to keep up a high quality image passengers are willing to schedule / pay extra for. The Silkair part of this brand has now to compete with the AirAsia, Lionair and Jetstar LCC's. That could easily compromise Singapore Airlines brand value.. I expect further announcements.

Well it allows Singapore Airlines to offer international business class to more destinations.

Velocity7 wrote:

Long time lurker, first time poster!

What's the likelihood that a lot of the existing SilkAir routes become Scoot, not SQ? Is this more about building the Scoot brand in intra Asia versus SQ? In my view many (not all) of SilkAir's existing routes are highly leisure orientated and by nature, potentially much more fare sensitive. There has been 3 examples of this happening this year alone - LGK, PKU and KLO all now with Scoot, previously, and for sometime in LGK case, with SilkAir.

I am not convinced we are going to see a plethora of SQ narrow bodies. I may be more inclined to believe we will see an expansion of Scoot!

They specifically talked about upgrading planes

I guess similar to Dragonair, Silkair has outlived its usefulness. Doing so will allow SQ to downgauge some routes to 180-seat 737MAX while keeping the premium brand, also similar to how CX has been actively moving some less premium routes to Cathay Dragon.

I wonder if China Airlines and EVA Air will consider doing the same to Mandarin Airlines and UNI Air respectively.

raylee67 wrote:

I guess similar to Dragonair, Silkair has outlived its usefulness. Doing so will allow SQ to downgauge some routes to 180-seat 737MAX while keeping the premium brand, also similar to how CX has been actively moving some less premium routes to Cathay Dragon.

I wonder if China Airlines and EVA Air will consider doing the same to Mandarin Airlines and UNI Air respectively.

Regarding downgauging of routes to 737/320, SQ has always been doing so. There have been quite a few ports that went from SQ to MI (and vice versa). For example, SUB went from SQ (using A310s) to MI (A320s) and then its now both (A330 + 737/320). One flight to DPS was downgauged from SQ mainline to MI. PEN and KUL used to be pure SQ, and now PEN is pure MI while majority of the original SQ flights to KUL are now done by MI.

Then there is SQ181/182 to BWN, which is a 777 on some days and A320 on others.

This also opens SQ up to the MOM (from either Airbus or Boeing, or both) without having to make a decision on which brand to operate it under (for full service purposes)...

Seems like a great move. They don't have to in-house outsource flying to LCCs/ULCC, they are bringing up the quality of SilkAir, and now can fly 737 vs A333s being smallest plane.

airzona11 wrote:

Seems like a great move. They don't have to in-house outsource flying to LCCs/ULCC, they are bringing up the quality of SilkAir, and now can fly 737 vs A333s being smallest plane.

SQ already has a in-house outsource LCC/ULCC in Scoot. I suspect part of aligning Silkair to SQ and upping its service to better match SQ is to put more distance between SQ/Scoot so the two can operate more routes together with less worry about customer confusion or cannablization.

usflyer msp wrote:

csturdiv wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

This means SilkAir will be in A* - I always found it odd that SQ was in Star but SilkAir was not...

Not unusual. QF is Oneworld while their JQ brand is not.

That is not quite the same. JQ is an LCC. SilkAir is a full service regional carrier. SilkAir not being in Star is like QantasLink not being in oneworld- very odd.

Qantas Link only operates QF coded flights so it is not the same as SilkAir. Qantas Link is more like American Eagle or United Express in how it operates.

MI as a stand alone full service airline operating outside the parent airline's alliance is not that unusual.

AE is not in SkyTeam but CI is.

B7 is not in Star but BR is.

MI is not in Star but SQ is.

BC is not in Star but NH is.

OQ is not in SkyTeam but CZ is.

EI is not in OnwWorld but other IAG airlines (BA, IB etc) are.

And prior to JL bankruptcy and restructuring, none of its regional affiliates (all flying under its own code) were in OneWorld.

Wow. This makes total sense! And although it will be sad to see the another airline go, SQ is a stunning brand and I don't mind seeing even more aircraft wearing its colours here in Singapore.

raylee67 wrote:

I guess similar to Dragonair, Silkair has outlived its usefulness. Doing so will allow SQ to downgauge some routes to 180-seat 737MAX while keeping the premium brand, also similar to how CX has been actively moving some less premium routes to Cathay Dragon.

I wonder if China Airlines and EVA Air will consider doing the same to Mandarin Airlines and UNI Air respectively.

A huge difference between SQ/MI and CX/KA, though. KA actually operated widebodies themselves, and what's with the insistance of "CX actively moving less premium routes to KA" when so far, they've moved one and only one route (HKG-KUL) after the rebrand? And guess what planes KA operated that route with? Those high density ex-CX A333s that have higher density than any of the existing KA A333s.

As for the Taiwanese subsidaries - it get even crazier as Mandarin (AE) operates quite a number of flights (mainly cross-strait flights to mainland China) using CI's plane (Including 744 on AE987/988) under some wet-lease agreement, while there are two flights (CI929/930, KHH-HKG-KHH) which CI uses AE's E90. Same for Uni Air (B7) operating quite a few BR's 321 on mainland Chinese routes, along with having a 77W/333 on B7 187/188.

bzcat wrote:

BC is not in Star but NH is.

Skymark (BC) is not even part of ANA Group. ANA simply has stakes (16.5%) in BC, but they are otherwise totally separate carriers that does not even codeshare with each other. Even the like of Air Do (HD), Solaseed (6J), Starflyer (7C), or IBEX (FW) are closer to ANA than BC is, as all of them have codeshare agreements with NH (None of them, however, are under ANA Group either, as ANA Holdings only held about ~18% of stakes in each of those companies).

There's the case of SC (Shandong Airlines), which is not in *A, vs. CA (Air China) and even another carrier under CA's control, ZH (Shenzhen Airlines), both being in *A.

KA was and still is an OW affiliate, meaning that OW benefits (priority boarding, lounge access etc) extends to OW elites when flying on KA (but may not earn or redeem any EQM or EQD, depending on the home airline policy). That is not the case with Silk, or Mandarin, or Uni, or Aer Lingus etc. The alliance benefit does not extend to these airlines despite their parents' participation in those alliances. Basically, if you are an OW elite (e.g. AA or QF), KA will recognize you as such. But if you are a Star elite (e.g. AC or LH), B7 (and MI) will not recognize your status. The only way to get elite benefits on B7 coded flights is to be a BR elite.

Mandarin (AE) and Uni (B7) will continue to exist as long as there is limited flight allocations between Taiwan and China, because Taiwanese Govt considers them different airlines distinct from CI and BR for rights allocation purpose. This is why you have AE or B7 coded China flights operated by CI or BR equipment because the rights were awarded specifically to AE or B7. On those flights, ST and Star benefits doesn't apply despite the fact it is operated by the parent airline equipment and crew. However, if the Taiwanese Govt changes its policy, both AE and B7 will probably get folded into their respective parents over night.

Definitely sad to see the brand go. SilkAir is one of my favorite airlines in SE Asia and the crew has always been exceptional. However, I also really like Singapore Airlines, so I can't complain much.

Polot wrote:

airzona11 wrote:

Seems like a great move. They don't have to in-house outsource flying to LCCs/ULCC, they are bringing up the quality of SilkAir, and now can fly 737 vs A333s being smallest plane.

SQ already has a in-house outsource LCC/ULCC in Scoot. I suspect part of aligning Silkair to SQ and upping its service to better match SQ is to put more distance between SQ/Scoot so the two can operate more routes together with less worry about customer confusion or cannablization.

I agree.

keesje wrote:

I wonder if this is really a smart strategy, maybe it's a first step in a new strategy? SQ has managed to keep up a high quality image passengers are willing to schedule / pay extra for. The Silkair part of this brand has now to compete with the AirAsia, Lionair and Jetstar LCC's. That could easily compromise Singapore Airlines brand value.. I expect further announcements.

Thats why SQ has TZ (SCOOT). TZ is the LCC of the SIA group. MI is the "regional wing" of SQ.

Take for example. You're a first time traveler of SQ. You have no idea of the SQ brand or its subsidiaries. You buy a ticket from Singapore Airlines to fly from SFO-Siem Reap. The first leg of the trip is on an SQ metal offering premium luxury service. You get off in Singapore and board a MI flight to Siem Reap and boom, you're on a narrow body with no PTV. As a first time traveler, you would feel somewhat "cheated" because you paid a "premium" fare and ended up on a sub-par (to SQ) airline. By incorporating MI into the SQ brand, it will stream line the premium service from point A to point B. This makes perfect sense from a consumer perspective.

bzcat wrote:

Mandarin (AE) and Uni (B7) will continue to exist as long as there is limited flight allocations between Taiwan and China, because Taiwanese Govt considers them different airlines distinct from CI and BR for rights allocation purpose. This is why you have AE or B7 coded China flights operated by CI or BR equipment because the rights were awarded specifically to AE or B7. On those flights, ST and Star benefits doesn't apply despite the fact it is operated by the parent airline equipment and crew. However, if the Taiwanese Govt changes its policy, both AE and B7 will probably get folded into their respective parents over night.

Ahh...that explained (for me) why there's that mess of AE operating 744/333/738 that are own by CI. (Same for BR/B7).

On the other hand, I doubt ST (or *A) benefits matter that much for those flights anyway, for ex-Taiwan pax they're probably already CI/BR elites, and I just don't know how big of a factor there is when it comes to being a ST/*A elites within mainland PRC anyway.

But yes, B7 would definitely just get fold into BR if the rights allocation policy doesn't exist. B7's two newest ATR72s (B-17016 and B-17017) are both painted in EVA's livery rather than Uni's livery, even though both are operated by B7 instead of BR.

airbazar wrote:

Coal wrote:

Huge news! It will be the first time in many decades that SQ has narrow body planes in its livery, including on a 737.

Mere marketing. SilkAir was always Singapore Airlines but with different branding. Even on the frequent flier program was the same.

and a terrible product

Velocity7 wrote:

Long time lurker, first time poster!

What's the likelihood that a lot of the existing SilkAir routes become Scoot, not SQ? Is this more about building the Scoot brand in intra Asia versus SQ? In my view many (not all) of SilkAir's existing routes are highly leisure orientated and by nature, potentially much more fare sensitive. There has been 3 examples of this happening this year alone - LGK, PKU and KLO all now with Scoot, previously, and for sometime in LGK case, with SilkAir.

I am not convinced we are going to see a plethora of SQ narrow bodies. I may be more inclined to believe we will see an expansion of Scoot!

Not necessarily. For instance, TR (Scoot) is stopping all flying to RGN and its flights are being replaced by MI, with SQ still having one daily flight.

MI serves two purposes for SQ: 1) Flying to leisure destinations where there may be premium traffic (e.g. LOP, MLE) and 2) to stimulate premium demand in potential business routes, e.g. secondary China / India / Indonesia cities (e.g. CTU, KNO, etc.).

So how soon will we see MAX aircraft being delivered in SQ colours straight from the factory?

Would be a perfect chance to update the now-(very) dated Singapore livery! It's the last remaining of my pet livery hates, now that the old Lufthansa one is gone.

Braybuddy wrote:

Would be a perfect chance to update the now-(very) dated Singapore livery! It's the last remaining of my pet livery hates, now that the old Lufthansa one is gone.

If they change it I'm moving, haha. I think it's timeless. Not dated.

Braybuddy wrote:

Would be a perfect chance to update the now-(very) dated Singapore livery! It's the last remaining of my pet livery hates, now that the old Lufthansa one is gone.

Agreed. It so old hat now.

Great news imo, I hope we see the SQ 737 Max come to Perth & Broome, the SQ livery works pretty well on the 737 too.

Coal wrote:

Good to see some harmonization of the product, including flat beds in J and PTVs in Y.

Nice one - but who needs on a REGIONAL feeder service LieFlat beds, like to Penang, Langkawi etc.?

I am afraid off, that ALL flights below 2 or 3 hours will be transferred to SCOOT - and SIA will keep only the longer, thin routes to India, Australia etc.! That would be a nightmare...

debonair wrote:

Coal wrote:

Good to see some harmonization of the product, including flat beds in J and PTVs in Y.

Nice one - but who needs on a REGIONAL feeder service LieFlat beds, like to Penang, Langkawi etc.?

I am afraid off, that ALL flights below 2 or 3 hours will be transferred to SCOOT - and SIA will keep only the longer, thin routes to India, Australia etc.! That would be a nightmare...

Yeah, why have fully flat beds on the new 787-10s (and upcoming A359 Regional) for turns to BKK, CGK, etc.

cvgComair wrote:

Definitely sad to see the brand go. SilkAir is one of my favorite airlines in SE Asia and the crew has always been exceptional. However, I also really like Singapore Airlines, so I can't complain much.

Yes agree. MI has been a quality brand and had a lovely network of exotic destinations (hard to rival, actually) and we now lose it in a sense but gain it in another. Changing times. I for one, will be glad to avoid the hiccups with interline and changes and lounge access at Changi. But nonetheless, it is a bit of a step change for those of us used to using SilkAir.

Polot wrote:

This also opens SQ up to the MOM (from either Airbus or Boeing, or both) without having to make a decision on which brand to operate it under (for full service purposes)...

I'm,not sure I understand you. I understand SQ was and remains open to the MOM concept given their history of short haul narrow body ops. And I Imagine CX, TG, MH, JL, NH, KE will all be queueing up should this aircraft actually be realisable in the medium term (some doubt about that, I'd say). MI was more about routes that couldn't sustain a widebody and had quite a lot less or seasonal demand. The transfer between SQ and MI was always problematic in terms of lounge access for those that wanted it, but for others, I'd say seamless. Hardly noticed.

Braybuddy wrote:

Would be a perfect chance to update the now-(very) dated Singapore livery! It's the last remaining of my pet livery hates, now that the old Lufthansa one is gone.

Wishful thinking. The Singapore livery is both timeless and iconic- it holds the same branding value like the logos of Louis Vuitton and Chanel. Any drastic update or dare i even say, a new livery, would be a marketing disaster. Might as well put the famous Singapore Girl in a business suit.

Braybuddy wrote:

Would be a perfect chance to update the now-(very) dated Singapore livery! It's the last remaining of my pet livery hates, now that the old Lufthansa one is gone.

It's true that the livery is dated, but it has dated rather well. Very well. Still I personally think it has the space to become even better, but that's a very slim chance.

Braybuddy wrote:

Would be a perfect chance to update the now-(very) dated Singapore livery! It's the last remaining of my pet livery hates, now that the old Lufthansa one is gone.

Is there a chance you are being sarcastic..?

Peeter wrote:

I think it's timeless. Not dated.

It screams 1980s and sticks out like a sore thumb now.

CarbonFibre wrote:

Agreed. It so old hat now.

blooc350 wrote:

The Singapore livery is both timeless and iconic- it holds the same branding value like the logos of Louis Vuitton and Chanel.

It's a warmed over rehash of what was an elegant livery. Billboard titles are not classy!

PolarRoute wrote:

It's true that the livery is dated, but it has dated rather well. Very well. Still I personally think it has the space to become even better, but that's a very slim chance.

It would be sad to think the airline is so devoid of imagination that it would be forever stuck in a 1980s time warp.

MoKa777 wrote:

Is there a chance you are being sarcastic..?

I never liked it, and doubt if I ever will. It was money for old rope. I'm generally not a fan of tweaked liveriers: it's a bit like overdoing cosmetic surgery.

Braybuddy wrote:

Peeter wrote:

I think it's timeless. Not dated.

It screams 1980s and sticks out like a sore thumb now.

CarbonFibre wrote:

Agreed. It so old hat now.

blooc350 wrote:

The Singapore livery is both timeless and iconic- it holds the same branding value like the logos of Louis Vuitton and Chanel.

It's a warmed over rehash of what was an elegant livery. Billboard titles are not classy!

PolarRoute wrote:

It's true that the livery is dated, but it has dated rather well. Very well. Still I personally think it has the space to become even better, but that's a very slim chance.

It would be sad to think the airline is so devoid of imagination that it would be forever stuck in a 1980s time warp.

MoKa777 wrote:

Is there a chance you are being sarcastic..?

I never liked it, and doubt if I ever will. It was money for old rope. I'm generally not a fan of tweaked liveriers: it's a bit like overdoing cosmetic surgery.

By your logic, the UK should tear down the Big Ben because it screams '1800s'.

There is such a thing as heritage and I dare say the Singapore Airlines livery embodies the heritage of the Malayan region (Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei and and some parts of Indonesia) with its iconic blue-yellow and the stylised Kris logo at the end. The kris is dagger used by traditional Malay warriors, and in the folklore of the region, it's seen as a spiritual object.

Don't know what will the livery for the 737's look like after they merged with SQ, but I think the livery would be similar to GOL 737's or is it going to be the same as the existing SQ fleet or something else. But new Business Class seats and IFE for B737's is a big improvement.

blooc350 wrote:

Braybuddy wrote:

Would be a perfect chance to update the now-(very) dated Singapore livery! It's the last remaining of my pet livery hates, now that the old Lufthansa one is gone.

Wishful thinking. The Singapore livery is both timeless and iconic- it holds the same branding value like the logos of Louis Vuitton and Chanel. Any drastic update or dare i even say, a new livery, would be a marketing disaster. Might as well put the famous Singapore Girl in a business suit.

Looking at some of the disastrous new liveries introduced of late (LH's come to my mind), I think SQ should not worry about getting a new livery until some new designers graduate from the art schools!

infinit wrote:

By your logic, the UK should tear down the Big Ben because it screams '1800s'.

There is such a thing as heritage and I dare say the Singapore Airlines livery embodies the heritage of the Malayan region (Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei and and some parts of Indonesia) with its iconic blue-yellow and the stylised Kris logo at the end. The kris is dagger used by traditional Malay warriors, and in the folklore of the region, it's seen as a spiritual object.

There's a world of a difference between architecture and corporate design! The former is heritage and, if it's done well, permanent. The latter by comparison, is ephemeral. There isn't an airline flying, AFAIK, that hasn't changed its livery, and most do within 20-year timeframes, sometimes less. To not do so when all others are following new ideas and trends is to remain (and look) oldfashioned and stuffy, which isn't great when you're marketing something as dynamic as an airline. The Kris logo is superb, but it can easily be re-imagined. I loved the 1970s Singapore livery, but the current one is just a mash-up of it. It's far too busy, IMHO.

flee wrote:

Looking at some of the disastrous new liveries introduced of late (LH's come to my mind), I think SQ should not worry about getting a new livery until some new designers graduate from the art schools!

I love the new LH livery! Their design team has bravely thrown out a fusty old livery for a cool, smart, minimalist look, which I never believed they would do: they've been tweaking that same old design for over 60 years now!

I booked for March 2019 the following flights: BCN-SIN / SIN-BCN with Singapore Airlines, and SIN-USM / USM-SIN with Silk Air.
Due to the future merger of Silk Air with Singapore Airlines, is it posible that some of this flights will change?

Any idea when the fleet will be repainted? Any renderings of the MAX in the SQ livery? That would be a good looking plane!

This might be a disguise to raise ticket prices to match SQ's level. Generally MI's ticket prices are significantly cheaper.

It has to be seen whether this move will be fruitful for SQ.
I am sure it will if the passenger experience is seamless (whether WB or NB a/c is irrelevant in that context).
For passengers the seamless experience will be crucial (e.g. unrestricted SA benefits) and the extension of SQ's brand recognition into smaller regional markets.
To me it seems the full integration of MI is just that final step further that CX did not want to go with KA for whatever reason (I'd guess traffic rights and differences in crew salary levels are the driving reasons at CX)

I do expect further exchange between MI and TZ routes during the SQ/MI integration process, though.

SQ789 wrote:

Don't know what will the livery for the 737's look like after they merged with SQ, but I think the livery would be similar to GOL 737's or is it going to be the same as the existing SQ fleet or something else. But new Business Class seats and IFE for B737's is a big improvement.

very likely the livery will be same as the mainline SQ fleet.
They want passengers to get a consistant experiences,
so the replace MI's seat etc. by the SQ products,
so that there will be no different except the plane only have one arise.

No point to have such constant products while having a different livery on the plane.

TWA772LR wrote:

Any idea when the fleet will be repainted? Any renderings of the MAX in the SQ livery? That would be a good looking plane!

https://www.google.com/search?q=singapo ... yXGIvhqAWM:
Not the MAX, but close!

oro wrote:

I booked for March 2019 the following flights: BCN-SIN / SIN-BCN with Singapore Airlines, and SIN-USM / USM-SIN with Silk Air.
Due to the future merger of Silk Air with Singapore Airlines, is it posible that some of this flights will change?

Probably not, as the merger isn’t scheduled untill 2020

hongkongflyer wrote:

SQ789 wrote:

Don't know what will the livery for the 737's look like after they merged with SQ, but I think the livery would be similar to GOL 737's or is it going to be the same as the existing SQ fleet or something else. But new Business Class seats and IFE for B737's is a big improvement.

very likely the livery will be same as the mainline SQ fleet.
They want passengers to get a consistant experiences,
so the replace MI's seat etc. by the SQ products,
so that there will be no different except the plane only have one arise.

No point to have such constant products while having a different livery on the plane.

Like CX and KA

Obzerva wrote:

hongkongflyer wrote:

SQ789 wrote:

Don't know what will the livery for the 737's look like after they merged with SQ, but I think the livery would be similar to GOL 737's or is it going to be the same as the existing SQ fleet or something else. But new Business Class seats and IFE for B737's is a big improvement.

very likely the livery will be same as the mainline SQ fleet.
They want passengers to get a consistant experiences,
so the replace MI's seat etc. by the SQ products,
so that there will be no different except the plane only have one arise.

No point to have such constant products while having a different livery on the plane.

Like CX and KA

MI's name will gone, but not the case for KA as KA has a lot bigger brand recognition then CX in China

KA is transitioning to CX, the logo livery and Cathay in title says it all, brand awareness being done.

artofzen wrote:

KA is transitioning to CX, the logo livery and Cathay in title says it all, brand awareness being done.

But they keep the "Dragon" on the livery and being part of the company name.
CX want to build up the CX brand in China, that's why the "shark fin" appears on the tail.
But it is too expensive for them to completely throw away the original KA's brand.

Which is not the case for MI, their name, livery, logo will all gone.

Same case for KA in 10 years.

Braybuddy wrote:

Peeter wrote:

I think it's timeless. Not dated.

It screams 1980s and sticks out like a sore thumb now.

CarbonFibre wrote:

Agreed. It so old hat now.

blooc350 wrote:

The Singapore livery is both timeless and iconic- it holds the same branding value like the logos of Louis Vuitton and Chanel.

It's a warmed over rehash of what was an elegant livery. Billboard titles are not classy!

PolarRoute wrote:

It's true that the livery is dated, but it has dated rather well. Very well. Still I personally think it has the space to become even better, but that's a very slim chance.

It would be sad to think the airline is so devoid of imagination that it would be forever stuck in a 1980s time warp.

MoKa777 wrote:

Is there a chance you are being sarcastic..?

I never liked it, and doubt if I ever will. It was money for old rope. I'm generally not a fan of tweaked liveriers: it's a bit like overdoing cosmetic surgery.

Well, sorry to burst your bubble. A livery change is not gonna happen in our life time. Long live the SQ livery lol

blooc350 wrote:

Well, sorry to burst your bubble. A livery change is not gonna happen in our life time. Long live the SQ livery lol

How about posting a source? If you're going to make such a ridiculous and sweeping statement you really need to be able to back it up.