SAT/MEM is only 2x weekly (Fri/Mon)
Leaves SAT early to MEM getting back to SAT before noon. Wonder where it continues on to after getting back for a no plane change continuation.

bagoldex wrote:

CarlosSi wrote:

Surprised there’s so much talk about BOS; I get that it’s an old city, but it seems like too much of a statement for a relatively... un-exotic route?

It would have been exotic and historic compared to places like Charlotte, Cleveland, Columbus, Oklahoma City, Omaha and Tulsa.

What’s wrong with Charlotte? You would be surprised what the city has to offer. Typical arrogant response on this site, as per usual.

JetBlueCLT wrote:

bagoldex wrote:

CarlosSi wrote:

Surprised there’s so much talk about BOS; I get that it’s an old city, but it seems like too much of a statement for a relatively... un-exotic route?

It would have been exotic and historic compared to places like Charlotte, Cleveland, Columbus, Oklahoma City, Omaha and Tulsa.

What’s wrong with Charlotte? You would be surprised what the city has to offer. Typical arrogant response on this site, as per usual.

I've been there. I'm glad it offered me a nonstop flight home every time I had to visit.

SunsetLimited wrote:

OKC and ABQ might hang around longer than six months. The others? Doubtful.

So many darts, not enough space on the map...

Frontier is trying to shift even more away from Denver. I bet we see more launches like this in the future from mid sized hubless cities. It is nice that some of these cities will get direct service, I just hope some stick.

With frontier i can see the dartboard working since they have no problem doing less then daily and will shut down a route no problem. Their strategy seems to do the dartboard all over and see what makes money.

All these start in mid-august! Maybe it is just me but I think of SAT as a vacation destination and with schools starting back mid-august, I would think the low season for SAT would be starting in mid-august. High season March-Mid-August. Just like Allegiant ends lots of their flights to vacation destination from Mid-August through end of September, not much vacationing over that 6-weeks besides football traffic on the weekends. SAT doesn't have D-1 football but maybe they would get a little weekend traffic from TUL/OKC for UT but most would drive and people that can afford to fly want to go directly to AUS vs SAT.

Point being, a weird time of year to start these, I would have waited til Sept 1st at least, if not October 1st. Not to mention, looking at seat maps on United out of OMA in september, most flights have at least 5-10 people booked on them (excluding the standard blocked out seats) and this doesn't even include the basic economy passengers that can't select a seat! Frontier is missing out on lots of potential passengers with such a short beginning booking window on these new flights.

Another example, a coworker just bought tickets last week to Orlando for Christmas, I told him to wait for when Allegiant or Frontier to extend their schedules, he said he would but his mom was getting nervous and couldn't hold her off any longer so 11 of them booked American via DFW instead. Allegiant extended their schedule the following day, ha! Point is, Frontier loses passengers by not having a minimum 8 month booking window and a 2.75 month booking window on these SAT new flights is crazy, especially for starting in slow season!

Good to see F9 giving OKC some more routes finally. Never hurts to try and I think the 4x weekly service to the Alamo City has a good shot of working. Like others have said, these cities have historically been connected with AA, WN and UA through connections at DFW, DAL, HOU/IAH. Not that AA and UA would care too much about what F9 is doing in this market, but now that F9 has really started setting up shop in WN's back yard, will be interesting to see if they come back with a response. Not particularly with launching new N/S service but cutting fares.

Frontier and allegiant want the ability to shift schedules and abandon routes quickly. That is why they don't offer flights bookable way in the future.

The legacy carriers have more of a network and their flights even if times change are more predcitable and easier to rebook. Delta can book a AUS-SLC passenger far ahead because they know they will have a seat, the time might adjust a little or plane type change but it's an easy adjustment. It's clear delta will fly that route. Frontier and allegiant are constantly shifting their schedules and booking far ahead would limit their ability to adjust as they want mostly it's frequency adjustements.

JetBlueCLT wrote:

bagoldex wrote:

CarlosSi wrote:

Surprised there’s so much talk about BOS; I get that it’s an old city, but it seems like too much of a statement for a relatively... un-exotic route?

It would have been exotic and historic compared to places like Charlotte, Cleveland, Columbus, Oklahoma City, Omaha and Tulsa.

What’s wrong with Charlotte? You would be surprised what the city has to offer. Typical arrogant response on this site, as per usual.

There's nothing wrong with Charlotte or any of those other cities and agree with the usual a.netter tone.

Great for especially SAT with the F9 love, as for all the negative comments on sustained service in the long run, F9 is already operating SAT- midsized markets and their history of add/drops is legendary as everyone following them already knows.

I don't understand the reasoning for flights that only operate 2-3 times a week, well...at least on domestic routes. I never thought of SAT or any of the new routes to/from it as those types of destinations. And I'm not sure what businessman/woman would want to hang out in any of them for 2-3 days before being able to leave.

Midwestindy wrote:

https://news.flyfrontier.com/frontier-adds-nine-new-routes-from-san-antonio/

Albuquerque
Charlotte
Cleveland
Columbus
Jacksonville
Memphis
Oklahoma City
Omaha
Tulsa

Let's see how this goes...

Shall we do an over/under? I'll take 5 of those routes to be cancelled by 8/13/19.

lavalampluva wrote:

I don't understand the reasoning for flights that only operate 2-3 times a week, well...at least on domestic routes. I never thought of SAT or any of the new routes to/from it as those types of destinations. And I'm not sure what businessman/woman would want to hang out in any of them for 2-3 days before being able to leave.

They are aimed at leisure traffic. Leisure travelers generally have flexible schedules (to be able to leave a day earlier or later than planned) and are most focused on ticket price. If I live in Albuquerque and want to visit a family member in San Antonio, a $70 round trip ticket to Frontier would be a very attractive choice.

TransWorldOne wrote:

I always find F9 route announcements to be disappointing, most because of the low frequency and the fact that routes seem to come and go regularly with them. I had really hoped for a B6 announcement to BOS.

What do you really expect when connecting thin routes? At least they'll have non-stop service.

I always find F9 route announcements to be disappointing, most because of the low frequency and the fact that routes seem to come and go regularly with them. I had really hoped for a B6 announcement to BOS.

As I have mentioned before, F9 continues to make route announcements that are unconventional to many a.netters. Fact is, some will stick and some will not. SAT wins whichever way it plays out....

Frontier 14

Frontier14 wrote:

As I have mentioned before, F9 continues to make route announcements that are unconventional to many a.netters. Fact is, some will stick and some will not. SAT wins whichever way it plays out....

Frontier 14

SAT wins if the routes stick around. SAT loses if they don't.

The reason WN never picked up TUL/ OKC-SAT is because it is a weak link, IMO. All of these new routes are lousy. How many of these did TransStaes try n/s from SAT years ago?
San Antonio is certainly a city that thinks (too) highly of itself, as the "7th largest city in the US". Heard that soooo many times when I lived and worked there at ol SAT. And as 2018 is the 300th year of the city, this will be a peak year and F9 starts all these as the leisure travel season winds down. Even Fiesta Texas ans seaWorld are only open weekends after school starts.
None of these will maintain. Even Spirit couldn't make SAT work for them.

EDIT: Looked up park schedules. SeaWorld is weekends/holidays only. Six Flags Fiesta Texas is same plus a few shoulder days during holiday weeks and Fridays. Still lame for a 1.5 M pop city IMO.

mtnwest1979 wrote:

The reason WN never picked up TUL/ OKC-SAT is because it is a weak link, IMO. All of these new routes are lousy. How many of these did TransStaes try n/s from SAT years ago?
San Antonio is certainly a city that thinks (too) highly of itself, as the "7th largest city in the US". Heard that soooo many times when I lived and worked there at ol SAT. And as 2018 is the 300th year of the city, this will be a peak year and F9 starts all these as the leisure travel season winds down. Even Fiesta Texas ans seaWorld are only open weekends after school starts.
None of these will maintain. Even Spirit couldn't make SAT work for them.

EDIT: Looked up park schedules. SeaWorld is weekends/holidays only. Six Flags Fiesta Texas is same plus a few shoulder days during holiday weeks and Fridays. Still lame for a 1.5 M pop city IMO.

OKC-SAT is 118 pax per day round trip. While not a super strong route, I wouldn’t call that weak either especially when WN operates OKC-STL twice daily at 130 Pax RT.

This is wishful thinking but for selfish reasons I was hoping for SAT-AMA as I fly down to SAT 4 to 6 times a year. With WN cutting DAL-AMA to 4 flights a day the connections aren't what they used to be (we don't even have the one through flight a day that we used to). I often find a better schedule and competitive fares on AA and UA through DFW and IAH but a non-stop sure would be nice.

I fully realize this is a pipe dream but it never hurts to hope

I think SAT-ABQ might have some potential. As AUS has the nerd bird to San Jose, SAT will have the "Methpress" to Albuquerque.

bagoldex wrote:

I think SAT-ABQ might have some potential. As AUS has the nerd bird to San Jose, SAT will have the "Methpress" to Albuquerque.

Okay, you need to stop

TransWorldOne wrote:

Frontier14 wrote:

As I have mentioned before, F9 continues to make route announcements that are unconventional to many a.netters. Fact is, some will stick and some will not. SAT wins whichever way it plays out....

Frontier 14

SAT wins if the routes stick around. SAT loses if they don't.

SAT wins by having more flights, therefore more passengers spending money, more people introduced to the city who may return, more landing fees, etc. I'm not planning a trip to San Antonio, but if a $70RT showed up from PHX, I might consider it. Actually, I've seen AA offer fares a little higher than that RT but the dates often don't work. Regardless, the airfare is often a stumbling block for a family vacation. F9 might eliminate the roadblock for some people.

jetmatt777 wrote:

mtnwest1979 wrote:

The reason WN never picked up TUL/ OKC-SAT is because it is a weak link, IMO. All of these new routes are lousy. How many of these did TransStaes try n/s from SAT years ago?
San Antonio is certainly a city that thinks (too) highly of itself, as the "7th largest city in the US". Heard that soooo many times when I lived and worked there at ol SAT. And as 2018 is the 300th year of the city, this will be a peak year and F9 starts all these as the leisure travel season winds down. Even Fiesta Texas ans seaWorld are only open weekends after school starts.
None of these will maintain. Even Spirit couldn't make SAT work for them.

EDIT: Looked up park schedules. SeaWorld is weekends/holidays only. Six Flags Fiesta Texas is same plus a few shoulder days during holiday weeks and Fridays. Still lame for a 1.5 M pop city IMO.

OKC-SAT is 118 pax per day round trip. While not a super strong route, I wouldn’t call that weak either especially when WN operates OKC-STL twice daily at 130 Pax RT.

One big difference between OKC-STL and OKC-SAT is that WN can connect passengers to more East Coast destinations from OKC through STL than WN could through SAT. In addition, all of the connections that could be made through SAT from OKC if WN added SAT-OKC nonstop service can already be made through DAL, HOU, DEN, PHX, and LAS on WN. SAT is also too far south for most of the domestic connections from OKC on WN. OKC also does not have any nonstop service on any airline to some of the destinations east of the Mississippi that WN serves nonstop from STL, including BOS, CLE, CMH, LGA, PIT, RDU, and DCA. WN can also easily connect passengers between OKC and SAT through its DAL home base.

jplatts wrote:

jetmatt777 wrote:

mtnwest1979 wrote:

The reason WN never picked up TUL/ OKC-SAT is because it is a weak link, IMO. All of these new routes are lousy. How many of these did TransStaes try n/s from SAT years ago?
San Antonio is certainly a city that thinks (too) highly of itself, as the "7th largest city in the US". Heard that soooo many times when I lived and worked there at ol SAT. And as 2018 is the 300th year of the city, this will be a peak year and F9 starts all these as the leisure travel season winds down. Even Fiesta Texas ans seaWorld are only open weekends after school starts.
None of these will maintain. Even Spirit couldn't make SAT work for them.

EDIT: Looked up park schedules. SeaWorld is weekends/holidays only. Six Flags Fiesta Texas is same plus a few shoulder days during holiday weeks and Fridays. Still lame for a 1.5 M pop city IMO.

OKC-SAT is 118 pax per day round trip. While not a super strong route, I wouldn’t call that weak either especially when WN operates OKC-STL twice daily at 130 Pax RT.

One big difference between OKC-STL and OKC-SAT is that WN can connect passengers to more East Coast destinations from OKC through STL than WN could through SAT. In addition, all of the connections that could be made through SAT from OKC if WN added SAT-OKC nonstop service can already be made through DAL, HOU, DEN, PHX, and LAS on WN. SAT is also too far south for most of the domestic connections from OKC on WN. OKC also does not have any nonstop service on any airline to some of the destinations east of the Mississippi that WN serves nonstop from STL, including BOS, CLE, CMH, LGA, PIT, RDU, and DCA. WN can also easily connect passengers between OKC and SAT through its DAL home base.

While I realize there is a difference, my point is that it is not some tiny market as implied.

mtnwest1979 wrote:

The reason WN never picked up TUL/ OKC-SAT is because it is a weak link, IMO. All of these new routes are lousy.

Since all the new routes are announced as "seasonal" it doesn't really matter, does it?

Some will have seasonal good loads, some won't.

mariner

What routes are F9 dropping?

PlanesNTrains wrote:

TransWorldOne wrote:

Frontier14 wrote:

As I have mentioned before, F9 continues to make route announcements that are unconventional to many a.netters. Fact is, some will stick and some will not. SAT wins whichever way it plays out....

Frontier 14

SAT wins if the routes stick around. SAT loses if they don't.

SAT wins by having more flights, therefore more passengers spending money, more people introduced to the city who may return, more landing fees, etc. I'm not planning a trip to San Antonio, but if a $70RT showed up from PHX, I might consider it. Actually, I've seen AA offer fares a little higher than that RT but the dates often don't work. Regardless, the airfare is often a stumbling block for a family vacation. F9 might eliminate the roadblock for some people.

The SAT-ABQ flights start in August, and they are just twice a week. They are early morning flights both ways. They only could save money for me if I don't stay at a hotel at SAT before the flight. If I have to drive from Corpus Christi, I need to leave 3.5 to 4.5 hours before the 7:30 am flight. That means leaving home between 3 am and 4 am to get to the airport 1 to 2 hours before departure. It's much easier to fly WN from CRP any day of the week and connect at HOU with 2 bags for the same or less than F9's price connecting through TUL or DEN.

Dart Board Airlines strikes again. Let's revisit this thread same time next year and see how many of these routes lasted/come back.

Super80Fan wrote:

Dart Board Airlines strikes again. Let's revisit this thread same time next year and see how many of these routes lasted/come back.

This kind of comment has ceased to be insightful, particularly as F9 delivers returns quarter after quarter. Why keep reiterating it?

mariner wrote:

mtnwest1979 wrote:

The reason WN never picked up TUL/ OKC-SAT is because it is a weak link, IMO. All of these new routes are lousy.

Since all the new routes are announced as "seasonal" it doesn't really matter, does it?

Some will have seasonal good loads, some won't.

mariner

I’m super curious what seasonal means? I would have guessed the start date coincides with the start of low season for SAT. Hmmmmm....

TransWorldOne wrote:

bagoldex wrote:

I think SAT-ABQ might have some potential. As AUS has the nerd bird to San Jose, SAT will have the "Methpress" to Albuquerque.

Okay, you need to stop

Lol, I have more. Many more.

joeljack wrote:

I’m super curious what seasonal means? I would have guessed the start date coincides with the start of low season for SAT. Hmmmmm....

I take "seasonal" to mean that they're not intended to last a full fifty two weeks, whatever the season might be.

mariner

OMA-SAT reminds me of a money losing route that Braniff would have flown in the 1970's. And what would the daily passenger count be on CMH-SAT? I can't imagine more than 20-25, and even that could be generous.

What about SAT-MFE?

PA12 wrote:

What about SAT-MFE?

MFE is too close to SAT for F9 to serve MFE nonstop from SAT. F9 usually does not operate nonstop routes that are shorter than 350 mi, whereas G4, B6, NK, and WN all have nonstop routes shorter than 300 mi. The shortest F9 nonstop routes include DEN-ABQ, CVG-ATL, and DEN-SLC.

Anybody know how the AUS routes are going?

Walking through the terminal in BUF I saw a delayed AUS flight filling up the gate area. A completely subjective - nearly irrelevant - observation but that’s what I saw.