Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
While holding fake degrees is very concerning, if they can fly the plane in line with all regulations and standards, I don't see the problem.
neomax wrote:If they can fly the plane in line with all regulations and standards, I don't see the problem.
https://timesofislamabad.com/11-May-201 ... ium=direct
User001 wrote:While holding fake degrees is very concerning, if they can fly the plane in line with all regulations and standards, I don't see the problem.
Seriously?!!
So as long as they can fly the plane ‘in line with regulations’ it doesn’t matter? So basically anyone should be able to turn up at any airline with fake documents, and that be ok?
zeke wrote:The concern for me is where does such an individual draw the line with their background, what is real about their previous flying experience, and the logbooks used to obtain a licence.
MaksFly wrote:This happens everywhere. Why is anyone surprised?
JetBuddy wrote:Just to clarify, by "degrees" - what do they mean? Their flight school training? If that's the case, it is truly shocking.
JetBuddy wrote:Just to clarify, by "degrees" - what do they mean? Their flight school training? If that's the case, it is truly shocking.
Yflyer wrote:JetBuddy wrote:Just to clarify, by "degrees" - what do they mean? Their flight school training? If that's the case, it is truly shocking.
That's what I was wondering, too. If they claimed to have a degree in something unrelated to flying just to make their resume look better, but their flight school training is valid then that's one thing. But if they lied about their actual flight training, that's a much bigger deal.
Ammad wrote:Yflyer wrote:JetBuddy wrote:Just to clarify, by "degrees" - what do they mean? Their flight school training? If that's the case, it is truly shocking.
That's what I was wondering, too. If they claimed to have a degree in something unrelated to flying just to make their resume look better, but their flight school training is valid then that's one thing. But if they lied about their actual flight training, that's a much bigger deal.
Flying credentials are fine. CAA verified that. Degrees were found fake that were submitted at the time of induction into the Airline.
goboeing wrote:MaksFly wrote:This happens everywhere. Why is anyone surprised?
Everywhere?
Where is everywhere?
The article said that 24 pilots out of 319 that have been vetted so far of the total seniority list of 451, have fake degrees.
24 of 319 = 7.5%
Company-wide, the number was (24+67) of 1,972 employees.
91 of 1,972 = 4.6%
I don't know where you're from but let's use a US legacy carrier as an example. The big three have approximately 15,000 pilots each.
If the proportions were the same, and your assertion that this "happens everywhere" is true, then you propose that each of the US legacy carriers might have over a thousand pilots with fake degrees?
What on earth?
These percentages are not normal.
A handful of employees of any group out of thousands lying about their credentials is one thing.
But to average more than 1 out of 20 employees companywide having a false academic record is not something that happens everywhere.
It must be a cultural thing.
klm617 wrote:Ammad wrote:Yflyer wrote:
That's what I was wondering, too. If they claimed to have a degree in something unrelated to flying just to make their resume look better, but their flight school training is valid then that's one thing. But if they lied about their actual flight training, that's a much bigger deal.
Flying credentials are fine. CAA verified that. Degrees were found fake that were submitted at the time of induction into the Airline.
But it's fraud and they should be fired on the spot.
neomax wrote:According to the article, a stay order has been issued to allow crew to continue their work. While holding fake degrees is very concerning, if they can fly the plane in line with all regulations and standards, I don't see the problem.
https://timesofislamabad.com/11-May-201 ... ium=direct
User001 wrote:While holding fake degrees is very concerning, if they can fly the plane in line with all regulations and standards, I don't see the problem.
Seriously?!!
So as long as they can fly the plane ‘in line with regulations’ it doesn’t matter? So basically anyone should be able to turn up at any airline with fake documents, and that be ok?
Ammad wrote:Yflyer wrote:JetBuddy wrote:Just to clarify, by "degrees" - what do they mean? Their flight school training? If that's the case, it is truly shocking.
That's what I was wondering, too. If they claimed to have a degree in something unrelated to flying just to make their resume look better, but their flight school training is valid then that's one thing. But if they lied about their actual flight training, that's a much bigger deal.
Flying credentials are fine. CAA verified that. Degrees were found fake that were submitted at the time of induction into the Airline.
bennett123 wrote:So now pilots decide what training they need.
Count me out of flying with them.
bennett123 wrote:You may be happy with a plumber operating on you, most would not.
Yflyer wrote:JetBuddy wrote:Just to clarify, by "degrees" - what do they mean? Their flight school training? If that's the case, it is truly shocking.
That's what I was wondering, too. If they claimed to have a degree in something unrelated to flying just to make their resume look better, but their flight school training is valid then that's one thing. But if they lied about their actual flight training, that's a much bigger deal.
Ammad wrote:Flying credentials are fine. CAA verified that. Degrees were found fake that were submitted at the time of induction into the Airline.
32andBelow wrote:You shouldn’t need a degree to fly an airplane. It’s a skill not rocket surgery.
neomax wrote:According to the article, a stay order has been issued to allow crew to continue their work. While holding fake degrees is very concerning, if they can fly the plane in line with all regulations and standards, I don't see the problem.
https://timesofislamabad.com/11-May-201 ... ium=direct
zeke wrote:nah. degrees where only needed when there were more applicants than jobs. In this new climate almost all airlines could care leas if you have a degree. It doesn’t matter. They aren’t doctors. They are pilots. And any pilot needs to pass simulator, recurrent, ground school, and oe. So degree or not they will make it or won’tAmmad wrote:Flying credentials are fine. CAA verified that. Degrees were found fake that were submitted at the time of induction into the Airline.
I am not comfortable with that, I know of airlines looking to employ people from some geographic areas where there seems to be systemic issues with the way licences are issued and experience obtained. For example people logging time they were on an aircraft as a passenger.32andBelow wrote:You shouldn’t need a degree to fly an airplane. It’s a skill not rocket surgery.
The role of a pilot involves more than the skill of flying, there is constant adult learning involved where people need to know how to learn and remember new material because their life, and their passengers lives depend on it.
You also need to have the ability to think critically in a time critical situations about the information that is presented. And be able to use their knowledge to reject unsafe information, for example ATC climbing you into another aircraft, turning you towards terrain, published charts with errors, errors in NOTAMs.
What the major of the degree is somewhat irrelivent, someone with a college degree should be able to be given an aircraft CBT and FCOM and told learn that in a week, then you will have an exam, pass mark is 85%. Spoon feeding like at school does not exist in the workplace.
32andBelow wrote:You shouldn’t need a degree to fly an airplane. It’s a skill not rocket surgery.
Pyrex wrote:Silly Pakistanis... they should have known they should first spend four years of their lives and $200,000 they don't have and need to borrow in order to play beer pong for four years before they can go and learn something actually useful for their careers in graduate school (for even more money, of course). How else is the educational-industrial complex supposed to support itself?
KingB123 wrote:This airline really needs to shut down now with all the crap its done.
32andBelow wrote:You shouldn’t need a degree to fly an airplane. It’s a skill not rocket surgery.
Pyrex wrote:Silly Pakistanis... they should have known they should first spend four years of their lives and $200,000 they don't have and need to borrow in order to play beer pong for four years before they can go and learn something actually useful for their careers in graduate school (for even more money, of course). How else is the educational-industrial complex supposed to support itself?
Planesmart wrote:32andBelow wrote:You shouldn’t need a degree to fly an airplane. It’s a skill not rocket surgery.
But as NZ authorities discovered recently, you do need a driver's licence to drive a truck. And a driver's licence should involve a bit more than 'buying one on the internet'.