slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 3791
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 09, 2018 5:39 pm

I do think they will get fly over Russian permissions. The only reason they wouldn't is if the Indian government has a political reason to stop it. I do think they will get them.

WOW is going to do really well with the Indian market. I see the value customer which is the masses picking wow when cheaper. The more frequent flyer is going to pick the ME3 for service. The looser is going to ailrine like Lufthansa, KLM, air France airlines that still do alot of USA/NA-Indian connections. The ME3 I be will lower coach fares and keep alot of market share. WOW is going to get the European airlines marketshare.

The legacies are beginning a very interesting time. They don't offer that many more amenities, but can't match the ULCC prices. The legacies struggles have barely started ie why IAG tried to buy Norweigan in TWO separate offers, they know the revolution has just started.

The ME3 offer the high level of service , the ULCC offer the value , how will the legacies differentiate themseleves. ULCC is sadly what people say they don't want, but book.
Last edited by slcdeltarumd11 on Wed May 09, 2018 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
m007j
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:05 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 09, 2018 5:45 pm

If you fear for all the full service carriers, you can lay your fears to rest. The simple fact that you can get 2 free checked bags on any one of them included in the fare is still the winner. Having to pay for bags when everyone in the family is guaranteed to bring those 2 (probably overweight) checked bags is going to turn most every vacationing Indian off, especially when they like to bring everything but the kitchen sink when they travel. If they're targeting a niche, it's going to be a pretty small one because no one will give this up. And speaking of the food, that's a whole other story. Have to pay extra, and you can't bring your own that you made at home? CYA on British Airways instead!
 
vadodara
Posts: 456
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 09, 2018 5:54 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
The legacies are beginning a very interesting time. They don't offer that many more amenities, but can't match the ULCC prices. The legacies struggles have barely started ie why IAG tried to buy Norweigan in TWO separate offers, they know the revolution has just started.

The ME3 offer the high level of service , the ULCC offer the value , how will the legacies differentiate themseleves. ULCC is sadly what people say they don't want, but book.


Yes, the LCC's offer point 2 point; saves you hassel at congested airports.

The class of service on the legacies is not exactly luxuorious. Yet due to their super-hubs, their overhead is high and operations somewhat inefficient. The AF's of the world are certainly looking like endangered species. And so are hubs like Detroit and Minneapolis.
 
LH658
Posts: 377
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 09, 2018 6:28 pm

Tickets to India are as low as 700 bucks from them North America on QR. I bet people rather fly on QR Vs WOW. Unless you just have carry on, and the ticket only 300 bucks.
 
TryToFlySomeday
Posts: 250
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:51 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 09, 2018 6:29 pm

Dang it, DEL got WOW first? I was wistfully hoping for ISB since the new airport is up to western standards...oh well, congrats DEL and congrats to WOW Air!
Hi, I'm TryToFlySomeday. A guy who likes to analyze airlines, and loves road trips & airplane trips. Founder of the Roadgeeking Section and Pakistan Aviation Threads.

American-born Pakistani based in ORD. Favorite cities: ORD / GRR / DTW
 
dtw2hyd
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Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 09, 2018 6:32 pm

m007j wrote:
If you fear for all the full service carriers, you can lay your fears to rest. The simple fact that you can get 2 free checked bags on any one of them included in the fare is still the winner. Having to pay for bags when everyone in the family is guaranteed to bring those 2 (probably overweight) checked bags is going to turn most every vacationing Indian off, especially when they like to bring everything but the kitchen sink when they travel. If they're targeting a niche, it's going to be a pretty small one because no one will give this up. And speaking of the food, that's a whole other story. Have to pay extra, and you can't bring your own that you made at home? CYA on British Airways instead!


First legacies should learn to fly to more than 2.5 airports to a country with 1.25 Billion people.

How long LH been talking about reactivating their A340s to serve low cost destinations like India? Six years, and every other year with a new name to the project like Jump and everything rhymes with that. If their unions won't agree, tough luck.

I wouldn't mind paying $1300-$1700 to WoW if I they offer one-stop to HYD, rather than 30 hour two-stop for same fare. Don't need two fully loaded bags. I can eat at home, buy a pizza slice at North Terminal and a sandwich at KEF.

Legacies haven't recovered from ME3 on-slaughter and ULCCs are adding insult the that injury.
 
vadodara
Posts: 456
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 09, 2018 6:53 pm

LH658 wrote:
Tickets to India are as low as 700 bucks from them North America on QR. I bet people rather fly on QR Vs WOW. Unless you just have carry on, and the ticket only 300 bucks.


Probably true for the likes of JFK, ORD, LAX and such. But unless QR is planning to add airports like CLE, PIT, CVG and so forth, that does not hold water. WoW can add lots of narrow bodies on N America to Iceland. Just like QR between Doha and S Asia.

In this battle, the advantage of geography likes with Iceland.
 
vadodara
Posts: 456
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 09, 2018 6:55 pm

binayak wrote:
vadodara wrote:
Another LCC joining the fray! Are the 'full-service' guys still around?

Yes they are and will be...


Unfortunately, one of the partners (AF) is increasingly looking like an endangered species!
 
Swadian
Posts: 302
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:56 am

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 09, 2018 7:17 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Congratulations WoW. First ULCC one-stop between USA-India. Hope they expand to India more now that US is well connected with KEF. Nightmare scenario to US3, EU3, ME3 and CN3. I bet China Southern/Eastern will offer $300 RT next year.


Why is this a nightmare for US3 when they barely fly to India anyway?

CN3 don't care, they'll price-dump anyway. They don't need to compete for US-India traffic when their home market is the biggest in the world.

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I do think they will get fly over Russian permissions. The only reason they wouldn't is if the Indian government has a political reason to stop it. I do think they will get them.

WOW is going to do really well with the Indian market. I see the value customer which is the masses picking wow when cheaper. The more frequent flyer is going to pick the ME3 for service. The looser is going to ailrine like Lufthansa, KLM, air France airlines that still do alot of USA/NA-Indian connections. The ME3 I be will lower coach fares and keep alot of market share. WOW is going to get the European airlines marketshare.

The legacies are beginning a very interesting time. They don't offer that many more amenities, but can't match the ULCC prices. The legacies struggles have barely started ie why IAG tried to buy Norweigan in TWO separate offers, they know the revolution has just started.

The ME3 offer the high level of service , the ULCC offer the value , how will the legacies differentiate themseleves. ULCC is sadly what people say they don't want, but book.


The ME3 does not necessarily provide a high level of service. All of them operate 10-abreast 777 which are no better than WOW's 8-abreast A330 or 6-abreast A321. Plus, the ME3 do not offer Premium Economy which can be an advantage to the EU3.

If anything, LCCs, CN3, and TK are way bigger threats to the EU3 than ME3.

dtw2hyd wrote:
m007j wrote:
If you fear for all the full service carriers, you can lay your fears to rest. The simple fact that you can get 2 free checked bags on any one of them included in the fare is still the winner. Having to pay for bags when everyone in the family is guaranteed to bring those 2 (probably overweight) checked bags is going to turn most every vacationing Indian off, especially when they like to bring everything but the kitchen sink when they travel. If they're targeting a niche, it's going to be a pretty small one because no one will give this up. And speaking of the food, that's a whole other story. Have to pay extra, and you can't bring your own that you made at home? CYA on British Airways instead!


First legacies should learn to fly to more than 2.5 airports to a country with 1.25 Billion people.

How long LH been talking about reactivating their A340s to serve low cost destinations like India? Six years, and every other year with a new name to the project like Jump and everything rhymes with that. If their unions won't agree, tough luck.

I wouldn't mind paying $1300-$1700 to WoW if I they offer one-stop to HYD, rather than 30 hour two-stop for same fare. Don't need two fully loaded bags. I can eat at home, buy a pizza slice at North Terminal and a sandwich at KEF.

Legacies haven't recovered from ME3 on-slaughter and ULCCs are adding insult the that injury.


The "ME3" is somewhat of a misnomer; EY is not attacking any legacies and are retracting everywhere while QR is under siege. The real threats are LCCs, TK, and CN3.

vadodara wrote:
LH658 wrote:
Tickets to India are as low as 700 bucks from them North America on QR. I bet people rather fly on QR Vs WOW. Unless you just have carry on, and the ticket only 300 bucks.


Probably true for the likes of JFK, ORD, LAX and such. But unless QR is planning to add airports like CLE, PIT, CVG and so forth, that does not hold water. WoW can add lots of narrow bodies on N America to Iceland. Just like QR between Doha and S Asia.

In this battle, the advantage of geography likes with Iceland.


Not really due to QR's close proximity to India. WOW is not going to get Europe - India traffic or USA - Southeast Asia traffic.

vadodara wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
The legacies are beginning a very interesting time. They don't offer that many more amenities, but can't match the ULCC prices. The legacies struggles have barely started ie why IAG tried to buy Norweigan in TWO separate offers, they know the revolution has just started.

The ME3 offer the high level of service , the ULCC offer the value , how will the legacies differentiate themseleves. ULCC is sadly what people say they don't want, but book.


Yes, the LCC's offer point 2 point; saves you hassel at congested airports.

The class of service on the legacies is not exactly luxuorious. Yet due to their super-hubs, their overhead is high and operations somewhat inefficient. The AF's of the world are certainly looking like endangered species. And so are hubs like Detroit and Minneapolis.


AA and DL will still do fine, but they don't fly to India. It's the EU3 that are really in trouble with LCCs, US3, CN3, and ME3 attacking them from all angles, not to mention TK and revanchist SU and AI. Smaller airlines like AY may actually find themselves doing better.
SMS Markgraf
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 09, 2018 7:24 pm

klm617 wrote:
This is great news for the Indian community of Detroit. No more double connects because an ME3 carrier refuses to serve Detroit and someone has finally cracked the Delta over priced options to India out of Detroit. This can't happen soon enough.


Did LH, AC and UA suddenly stop flying to DTW? All of them already offer one stop DTW-DEL service that is not DL/KL/AF operated...
 
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unrave
Posts: 478
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 09, 2018 7:32 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:

The probability of WoW starting to Tier-II cities is higher. LH can never convince their crew, KL cannot free itself from AF. 9W doesn't have funds/planes.



They don't have the bilateral rights though. Limited to only two points so DEL and one more.
Air India is a national embarrassment
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 09, 2018 7:32 pm

To me this would be a game changing route IF it actually stimulates demand on both the Indian and NA ends. I am hoping that the Indian market has finally matured enough that there are business travelers that want FF miles and FCS service, tourists that want the reliability, comfort and FF miles of FSC (remember WOW and the other ULCC have had operational issues) and then finally the price sensitive crowd. If the price sensitive crowd now decides to fly to the US or India more often then this flight is a great add. in 2017 EY had many sales where tons of dates were $800. So WOW would need to be like $650 to really stimulate things (I think but open to other views).
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 5656
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 09, 2018 8:07 pm

unrave wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

The probability of WoW starting to Tier-II cities is higher. LH can never convince their crew, KL cannot free itself from AF. 9W doesn't have funds/planes.



They don't have the bilateral rights though. Limited to only two points so DEL and one more.


May be now, but it will be open skies and under new India's new open skies beyond 5000 miles/nms/kilometers whatever policy.
 
CHI787ORD
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 09, 2018 9:33 pm

This impacts the ME3 more than the EU3.

ME3 is capturing the low fare market right now. EU3 generally isn't- only in markets where the ME3 isn't present like DTW.

The ME3 does still have the advantage of having way more destinations in India. There is less tolerance now for flying to DEL or BOM and then hopping on a train to your final destination. North American NRIs who have less vacation time want convenience.
 
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Matt6461
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 09, 2018 9:57 pm

I'm interested to see the full scope of Wow's ambitions - they say "Asia" not just India.

U.S. East Coast - Interior China has good circuitry over KEF:

Image

KEF is a more efficient connecting point to India than DXB:

Image

What's the Russian overflight issue and what are the prospects of addressing it?
 
CHI787ORD
Posts: 796
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:27 am

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 09, 2018 10:12 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
klm617 wrote:
This is great news for the Indian community of Detroit. No more double connects because an ME3 carrier refuses to serve Detroit and someone has finally cracked the Delta over priced options to India out of Detroit. This can't happen soon enough.


Did LH, AC and UA suddenly stop flying to DTW? All of them already offer one stop DTW-DEL service that is not DL/KL/AF operated...


What not having the ME3 at DTW impacts is the lack of one stop connections to AMD, CCU, COK, ATQ, etc. WOW Air to DEL does not solve that problem.

We also don't know anything about WOW's flight times and how long the layover will be, so its really premature to start assuming this is gonna lead to a more convenient experience to India. Also DTW is a DL town with not that big of an Indian population. WOW Air will probably capture a decent chunk of the low far DTW-DEL market, but there is a higher paying and more lucrative customer segment that will likely stick with SkyTeam.
 
stl07
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 09, 2018 10:23 pm

The announcement thing just said India, so places like BOM are not off the table
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 09, 2018 10:48 pm

I hope this doesn’t make WW soon a victim of its own success. KEF will need an expansion soon. I expected that the ME3 could get a challenge, but not from Iceland. The idea makes sense since that’s a VFR destination.
 
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Slash787
Posts: 538
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 09, 2018 11:14 pm

stl07 wrote:
The announcement thing just said India, so places like BOM are not off the table


Yeah one can only hope, does WOW fly to YYZ? I am planning to go in September, so if they start by that time then I assume the tickets will be a little cheaper than other airlines.
 
vadodara
Posts: 456
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 09, 2018 11:39 pm

Swadian wrote:
vadodara wrote:
LH658 wrote:
Tickets to India are as low as 700 bucks from them North America on QR. I bet people rather fly on QR Vs WOW. Unless you just have carry on, and the ticket only 300 bucks.


Probably true for the likes of JFK, ORD, LAX and such. But unless QR is planning to add airports like CLE, PIT, CVG and so forth, that does not hold water. WoW can add lots of narrow bodies on N America to Iceland. Just like QR between Doha and S Asia.

In this battle, the advantage of geography likes with Iceland.


Not really due to QR's close proximity to India. WOW is not going to get Europe - India traffic or USA - Southeast Asia traffic.


As I mentioned, QR can fly narrow bodies to multiple Indian cities. Since the bilaterals are restricted, rumor of QR starting an airline in India. Imagine that will essentially funnel traffic to Doha.

However, what are the chances to see DOH-CLE or DOH-PIT or DOH-CVG and so forth?

Swadian wrote:
vadodara wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
The legacies are beginning a very interesting time. They don't offer that many more amenities, but can't match the ULCC prices. The legacies struggles have barely started ie why IAG tried to buy Norweigan in TWO separate offers, they know the revolution has just started.

The ME3 offer the high level of service , the ULCC offer the value , how will the legacies differentiate themseleves. ULCC is sadly what people say they don't want, but book.


Yes, the LCC's offer point 2 point; saves you hassel at congested airports.

The class of service on the legacies is not exactly luxuorious. Yet due to their super-hubs, their overhead is high and operations somewhat inefficient. The AF's of the world are certainly looking like endangered species. And so are hubs like Detroit and Minneapolis.


AA and DL will still do fine, but they don't fly to India. It's the EU3 that are really in trouble with LCCs, US3, CN3, and ME3 attacking them from all angles, not to mention TK and revanchist SU and AI. Smaller airlines like AY may actually find themselves doing better.


It appears that only IAG thru BA/Iberia seems to be adjusting to the new reality. Unlike AA/DL, they have not blocked Norwegian's expansion of service from LGW to US.
 
usflyer msp
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 12:00 am

vadodara wrote:
Swadian wrote:
vadodara wrote:

Probably true for the likes of JFK, ORD, LAX and such. But unless QR is planning to add airports like CLE, PIT, CVG and so forth, that does not hold water. WoW can add lots of narrow bodies on N America to Iceland. Just like QR between Doha and S Asia.

In this battle, the advantage of geography likes with Iceland.


Not really due to QR's close proximity to India. WOW is not going to get Europe - India traffic or USA - Southeast Asia traffic.


As I mentioned, QR can fly narrow bodies to multiple Indian cities. Since the bilaterals are restricted, rumor of QR starting an airline in India. Imagine that will essentially funnel traffic to Doha.

However, what are the chances to see DOH-CLE or DOH-PIT or DOH-CVG and so forth?

Swadian wrote:
vadodara wrote:

Yes, the LCC's offer point 2 point; saves you hassel at congested airports.

The class of service on the legacies is not exactly luxuorious. Yet due to their super-hubs, their overhead is high and operations somewhat inefficient. The AF's of the world are certainly looking like endangered species. And so are hubs like Detroit and Minneapolis.


AA and DL will still do fine, but they don't fly to India. It's the EU3 that are really in trouble with LCCs, US3, CN3, and ME3 attacking them from all angles, not to mention TK and revanchist SU and AI. Smaller airlines like AY may actually find themselves doing better.


It appears that only IAG thru BA/Iberia seems to be adjusting to the new reality. Unlike AA/DL, they have not blocked Norwegian's expansion of service from LGW to US.


Only because they know Norwegian's business plan is so stupid that BA would only be hurting themselves and wasting their assets by attempting to compete in a significant way. The market will take care Norwegian on its own...
 
stl07
Posts: 493
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 1:22 am

Slash787 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
The announcement thing just said India, so places like BOM are not off the table


Yeah one can only hope, does WOW fly to YYZ? I am planning to go in September, so if they start by that time then I assume the tickets will be a little cheaper than other airlines.

Yes, they do. When WW announced STL, CLE, CVG, DTW, and DFW they announced many mouths earlier than start date so they probably wont be started by then
 
c933103
Posts: 1977
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 3:16 am

Matt6461 wrote:
I'm interested to see the full scope of Wow's ambitions - they say "Asia" not just India.

U.S. East Coast - Interior China has good circuitry over KEF:

Image

KEF is a more efficient connecting point to India than DXB:

Image

What's the Russian overflight issue and what are the prospects of addressing it?

What's the current Iceland visa requirements for Chinese transit travellers?
 
stl07
Posts: 493
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 3:30 am

Wait so the bilateral only allows for 2 cities if I'm getting this right? That pretty much means if the expand in India the next city will be Mumbai
 
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LoftleidirDC8
Posts: 49
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 3:34 am

Having flown WW a330 and a321 I didn't find them any worse than the US3. KEF has multiple food options, many with really good fish! WW had good service. The only concern I have is that India flights are often have huge luggage counts. That could be interesting at check in. I hope it succeeds.
 
binayak
Posts: 207
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 6:16 am

vadodara wrote:
binayak wrote:
vadodara wrote:
Another LCC joining the fray! Are the 'full-service' guys still around?

Yes they are and will be...


Unfortunately, one of the partners (AF) is increasingly looking like an endangered species!

Lets see how does their "Joon" work in India. BTW the last time i checked many flights during June of Joon (BOM CDG) are fully sold in Y and the fares of the few remaining seats are not much less than 9W's. Perhaps due to high demand?
9W must be declared as India's national airline. They will indirectly fulfill JRD's vision!!
 
eaa3
Posts: 910
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:49 am

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 6:49 am

c933103 wrote:
Matt6461 wrote:
I'm interested to see the full scope of Wow's ambitions - they say "Asia" not just India.

U.S. East Coast - Interior China has good circuitry over KEF:

Image

KEF is a more efficient connecting point to India than DXB:

Image

What's the Russian overflight issue and what are the prospects of addressing it?

What's the current Iceland visa requirements for Chinese transit travellers?


No transit passengers need a visa for Iceland, no matter where they are from.
 
BOMFlyer
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:47 am

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 7:08 am

Could India and Iceland sign a new bilateral if WOW exhausts the current one? Because it is very restrictive and quite old (I think it was signed in 2005).
 
BOMFlyer
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:47 am

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 7:14 am

Could India and Iceland sign a new bilateral if WOW exhausts the current one? Because it is very restrictive and quite old (I think it was signed in 2005).
 
Ryanair01
Posts: 204
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 8:06 am

LoftleidirDC8 wrote:
Having flown WW a330 and a321 I didn't find them any worse than the US3. KEF has multiple food options, many with really good fish! WW had good service. The only concern I have is that India flights are often have huge luggage counts. That could be interesting at check in. I hope it succeeds.


I think 2-4-2 on an A333 is always going to be more comfortable than 3-4-3 on a B777. I'll be interested to see if Wow can draw enough passengers in/out of the Mid West, as EU/ME3 already have the major ports more than covered at junk yields that's heavily subsidised by O&D.

I wish Wow luck, but India is a competitive market with complex cultural considerations when it comes to product offer.
 
anshabhi
Topic Author
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 8:09 am

BOMFlyer wrote:
Could India and Iceland sign a new bilateral if WOW exhausts the current one? Because it is very restrictive and quite old (I think it was signed in 2005).

No, unless some Indian airline launches flights to Iceland
 
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Spiderguy252
Posts: 847
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 8:20 am

BOMFlyer wrote:
Could India and Iceland sign a new bilateral if WOW exhausts the current one? Because it is very restrictive and quite old (I think it was signed in 2005).


Well, that hasn't worked for Turkish Airlines and Qatar Airways.
Vahroone
 
c933103
Posts: 1977
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 8:34 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
unrave wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

The probability of WoW starting to Tier-II cities is higher. LH can never convince their crew, KL cannot free itself from AF. 9W doesn't have funds/planes.



They don't have the bilateral rights though. Limited to only two points so DEL and one more.


May be now, but it will be open skies and under new India's new open skies beyond 5000 miles/nms/kilometers whatever policy.

It's within 5000km, not beyond, it seems
 
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hvusslax
Posts: 307
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 9:23 am

eaa3 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Matt6461 wrote:
I'm interested to see the full scope of Wow's ambitions - they say "Asia" not just India.

U.S. East Coast - Interior China has good circuitry over KEF:

Image

KEF is a more efficient connecting point to India than DXB:

Image

What's the Russian overflight issue and what are the prospects of addressing it?

What's the current Iceland visa requirements for Chinese transit travellers?


No transit passengers need a visa for Iceland, no matter where they are from.


Not quite. There are 11 nationalities that require transit visas (A-visa) to transit airside through any Schengen airport. Some Schengen members have added to that list, Germany and France both require transit visas from Indians for example. Transit visas are not very relevant for Iceland though because anyone holding a residence permit or a visa that allows entry into the US or Canada is exempt from the requirement for a transit visa and anyone transiting through Iceland is presumably heading to or coming from the USA or Canada so would already have those visas or residence permits.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 10:50 am

c933103 wrote:
It's within 5000km, not beyond, it seems


It is beyond 5000km from DEL. If India allows open-skies within 5000 km, there won't be any Indian carrier. ME3 will eat them for lunch.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/business ... dsrqJ.html
 
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dangerhere
Posts: 7
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 11:26 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:

WOW is going to do really well with the Indian market. I see the value customer which is the masses picking wow when cheaper. The more frequent flyer is going to pick the ME3 for service. The looser is going to ailrine like Lufthansa, KLM, air France airlines that still do alot of USA/NA-Indian connections. The ME3 I be will lower coach fares and keep alot of market share. WOW is going to get the European airlines marketshare.

The legacies are beginning a very interesting time. They don't offer that many more amenities, but can't match the ULCC prices. The legacies struggles have barely started ie why IAG tried to buy Norweigan in TWO separate offers, they know the revolution has just started.

The ME3 offer the high level of service , the ULCC offer the value , how will the legacies differentiate themseleves. ULCC is sadly what people say they don't want, but book.


I wouldn't be so sure about the legacies in Europe. It will affect their connecting markets somewhat, but not in any great way I imagine. In any case, many can and do already fly Aer Lingus to Dublin, short hop to London (high frequency) and direct flight to wherever in India due to the colonial links, all with bags ect included in the relatively competitive price. I agree with you that the big player legacies are not offering a great service but at the same time, Wow is going to be tough going for anyone expecting even a basic level of BA economy service comfort. If Ryanair announced tomorrow they were going to fly North America to India via a stop in Dublin, it would be interesting to see how the market responds.

From Europe it makes very little sense as a route. Even from a secondary city in terms of aviation (Berlin), if I wanted to fly to India I would fly via either FRA, AMS or LHR for convenience. Convincing me to take a ride 3-4 hours in the wrong direction with no bags included in a narrow seat and then change flights and fly to Dehli for a cheaper fare isn't going to work.

With this as well you have to keep in mind, India is a massive country, or rather subcontinent. Someone flying from Detroit to to somewhere regional in India won't be too attracted by a cheap flight to the capital city 3000 km away. That's before baggage ect is brought into the picture. Most likely they will have their 'closest' international airport in mind and even after that it could be 10-20 hours by train to the home town-village. Just as an American wouldn't book a cheap fare with Amtrak to North Dakota if you want to travel or could fly to Denver, pay a bit extra to endure less hassle on the journey.

It's an interesting announcement alright but I wouldn't be blown away by it.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 5656
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 11:49 am

dangerhere wrote:
... Someone flying from Detroit to to somewhere regional in India won't be too attracted by a cheap flight to the capital city 3000 km away...


No, I will continue to pay $300-$500(DTW-HYD $1300-$1700 for RT) more so the hub dwellers in both countries (JFK,ORD,DEL,BOM) can enjoy cheap and shortest flights, while I endure 30-48 hour trips, which used to be a 18 hr pleasant trip with 90 minute connection at AMS/FRA.

Hope Iceland applies for India open-skies, which is automatic approval for countries beyond 5000km@DEL.
 
vadodara
Posts: 456
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 12:41 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
dangerhere wrote:
... Someone flying from Detroit to to somewhere regional in India won't be too attracted by a cheap flight to the capital city 3000 km away...


No, I will continue to pay $300-$500(DTW-HYD $1300-$1700 for RT) more so the hub dwellers in both countries (JFK,ORD,DEL,BOM) can enjoy cheap and shortest flights, while I endure 30-48 hour trips, which used to be a 18 hr pleasant trip with 90 minute connection at AMS/FRA.

Hope Iceland applies for India open-skies, which is automatic approval for countries beyond 5000km@DEL.


And I mistook you for a 'hub' wallah!
 
vadodara
Posts: 456
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 12:44 pm

binayak wrote:
vadodara wrote:
binayak wrote:
Yes they are and will be...


Unfortunately, one of the partners (AF) is increasingly looking like an endangered species!

Lets see how does their "Joon" work in India. BTW the last time i checked many flights during June of Joon (BOM CDG) are fully sold in Y and the fares of the few remaining seats are not much less than 9W's. Perhaps due to high demand?


Dont know much about Joon except that their cost structure and ops are out of whack! On top of it, Paris has 3-4 airports. This essentially means that AF cannot 'block' out competitors by squatting on slots as at LHR at CDG.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 5656
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 12:47 pm

vadodara wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
dangerhere wrote:
... Someone flying from Detroit to to somewhere regional in India won't be too attracted by a cheap flight to the capital city 3000 km away...


No, I will continue to pay $300-$500(DTW-HYD $1300-$1700 for RT) more so the hub dwellers in both countries (JFK,ORD,DEL,BOM) can enjoy cheap and shortest flights, while I endure 30-48 hour trips, which used to be a 18 hr pleasant trip with 90 minute connection at AMS/FRA.

Hope Iceland applies for India open-skies, which is automatic approval for countries beyond 5000km@DEL.


And I mistook you for a 'hub' wallah!


Yes I am, but I don't like passengers unnecessary herded through a hub when there is enough traffic to justify direct/non-stop. I am sure there are passengers forced to connect through DTW like millions connect through ATL.
 
User avatar
Slash787
Posts: 538
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:37 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 1:57 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:
BOMFlyer wrote:
Could India and Iceland sign a new bilateral if WOW exhausts the current one? Because it is very restrictive and quite old (I think it was signed in 2005).


Well, that hasn't worked for Turkish Airlines and Qatar Airways.


Can you tell what bilateral have they signed?
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 2:08 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
vadodara wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

No, I will continue to pay $300-$500(DTW-HYD $1300-$1700 for RT) more so the hub dwellers in both countries (JFK,ORD,DEL,BOM) can enjoy cheap and shortest flights, while I endure 30-48 hour trips, which used to be a 18 hr pleasant trip with 90 minute connection at AMS/FRA.

Hope Iceland applies for India open-skies, which is automatic approval for countries beyond 5000km@DEL.


And I mistook you for a 'hub' wallah!


Yes I am, but I don't like passengers unnecessary herded through a hub when there is enough traffic to justify direct/non-stop. I am sure there are passengers forced to connect through DTW like millions connect through ATL.


But no one is forced to fly through any hub (for the most part). India isn't a one trick country that has one city dominating. The 5 biggest Indian cities have plenty of options. You are right about HYD in that it lost LH and KLM. But those airlines didn't pull out because they wanted to help BOM/DEL/BLR/MAA flights. They left because HYD did not have enough traffic with sufficient yield to fill the ME3's flights plus the EU carriers and Indian ones. I truly believe that if the Government had phased in the ME3 flights, the EU carriers would have stayed in HYD. The glut of seats plus high oil killed those flights. But let's see what happens. India has not expanded the ME3 bilaterals in awhile (thank god). The growth in air traffic has finally started to catch up to capacity plus Indian carriers have improved and ULCCs are soon to come to India (be it foreign or Indian). I think HYD will see a 9W flight to AMS sooner rather than latter. Now why BA doesn't fly to DTW is really the crux of the issue (you could then fly DTW-LHR-HYD).
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 5656
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 2:25 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:

But no one is forced to fly through any hub (for the most part). India isn't a one trick country that has one city dominating. The 5 biggest Indian cities have plenty of options. You are right about HYD in that it lost LH and KLM. But those airlines didn't pull out because they wanted to help BOM/DEL/BLR/MAA flights. They left because HYD did not have enough traffic with sufficient yield to fill the ME3's flights plus the EU carriers and Indian ones. I truly believe that if the Government had phased in the ME3 flights, the EU carriers would have stayed in HYD. The glut of seats plus high oil killed those flights. But let's see what happens. India has not expanded the ME3 bilaterals in awhile (thank god). The growth in air traffic has finally started to catch up to capacity plus Indian carriers have improved and ULCCs are soon to come to India (be it foreign or Indian). I think HYD will see a 9W flight to AMS sooner rather than latter. Now why BA doesn't fly to DTW is really the crux of the issue (you could then fly DTW-LHR-HYD).


LH,KL were serving before ME3 flooded the market, loads were good for both flights, KL was operating a rundown MD11, what premium yields they were expecting. LH still operates cargo service to HYD, may be refrigerated pharmaceuticals not suited to go into A340 belly.

DTW-LHR is a DL's turf, neither BA nor AA are willing to compete even though fares are $300-$500 more compared to JFK-LHR.

I can self-connect DTW-LHR-HYD on DL-BA. $12,000 for RT economy on dohop and haven't got any assurance DL and BA will transfer bags. I am sure I can find cheaper fare.
 
spinotter
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 1:37 am

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
On a side note, how are the food options at KEF terminal? Do they sell any vegetarian food?


I was at KEF overnight in October and I believe there were some vegetarian options:

https://www.isavia.is/en/keflavik-airpo ... estaurants

But the airport waiting areas seem undersized for the crowds coming and going on FI and WW - not a pleasant experience for me.
 
vadodara
Posts: 456
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 2:54 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
vadodara wrote:

And I mistook you for a 'hub' wallah!


Yes I am, but I don't like passengers unnecessary herded through a hub when there is enough traffic to justify direct/non-stop. I am sure there are passengers forced to connect through DTW like millions connect through ATL.


But no one is forced to fly through any hub (for the most part). India isn't a one trick country that has one city dominating. The 5 biggest Indian cities have plenty of options. You are right about HYD in that it lost LH and KLM. But those airlines didn't pull out because they wanted to help BOM/DEL/BLR/MAA flights. They left because HYD did not have enough traffic with sufficient yield to fill the ME3's flights plus the EU carriers and Indian ones. I truly believe that if the Government had phased in the ME3 flights, the EU carriers would have stayed in HYD. The glut of seats plus high oil killed those flights. But let's see what happens. India has not expanded the ME3 bilaterals in awhile (thank god). The growth in air traffic has finally started to catch up to capacity plus Indian carriers have improved and ULCCs are soon to come to India (be it foreign or Indian). I think HYD will see a 9W flight to AMS sooner rather than latter. Now why BA doesn't fly to DTW is really the crux of the issue (you could then fly DTW-LHR-HYD).


Are we taking bets on possible outcomes were STV-DXB flights were allowed?
 
m007j
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:05 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 3:23 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
m007j wrote:
If you fear for all the full service carriers, you can lay your fears to rest. The simple fact that you can get 2 free checked bags on any one of them included in the fare is still the winner. Having to pay for bags when everyone in the family is guaranteed to bring those 2 (probably overweight) checked bags is going to turn most every vacationing Indian off, especially when they like to bring everything but the kitchen sink when they travel. If they're targeting a niche, it's going to be a pretty small one because no one will give this up. And speaking of the food, that's a whole other story. Have to pay extra, and you can't bring your own that you made at home? CYA on British Airways instead!


First legacies should learn to fly to more than 2.5 airports to a country with 1.25 Billion people.

How long LH been talking about reactivating their A340s to serve low cost destinations like India? Six years, and every other year with a new name to the project like Jump and everything rhymes with that. If their unions won't agree, tough luck.

I wouldn't mind paying $1300-$1700 to WoW if I they offer one-stop to HYD, rather than 30 hour two-stop for same fare. Don't need two fully loaded bags. I can eat at home, buy a pizza slice at North Terminal and a sandwich at KEF.

Legacies haven't recovered from ME3 on-slaughter and ULCCs are adding insult the that injury.


I'm the same way as you, I travel light and I eat whatever I can find, but we're two small fish in a very large ocean. I'd happily fly WOW, even if it means 2-stop for me (I fly to MAA) if it'll save me a couple hundred bucks. For the majority of people, that couple hundred isn't going to keep them from the convenience of going full-service.
 
c933103
Posts: 1977
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 4:10 pm

While it is true that Indian like to carry a lot of baggages around - Could maybe a US$100 difference per each return ticket make them change the habit?
 
User avatar
dangerhere
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:35 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 6:59 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:

But no one is forced to fly through any hub (for the most part). India isn't a one trick country that has one city dominating. The 5 biggest Indian cities have plenty of options. You are right about HYD in that it lost LH and KLM. But those airlines didn't pull out because they wanted to help BOM/DEL/BLR/MAA flights. They left because HYD did not have enough traffic with sufficient yield to fill the ME3's flights plus the EU carriers and Indian ones. I truly believe that if the Government had phased in the ME3 flights, the EU carriers would have stayed in HYD. The glut of seats plus high oil killed those flights. But let's see what happens. India has not expanded the ME3 bilaterals in awhile (thank god). The growth in air traffic has finally started to catch up to capacity plus Indian carriers have improved and ULCCs are soon to come to India (be it foreign or Indian). I think HYD will see a 9W flight to AMS sooner rather than latter. Now why BA doesn't fly to DTW is really the crux of the issue (you could then fly DTW-LHR-HYD).


LH,KL were serving before ME3 flooded the market, loads were good for both flights, KL was operating a rundown MD11, what premium yields they were expecting. LH still operates cargo service to HYD, may be refrigerated pharmaceuticals not suited to go into A340 belly.

DTW-LHR is a DL's turf, neither BA nor AA are willing to compete even though fares are $300-$500 more compared to JFK-LHR.

I can self-connect DTW-LHR-HYD on DL-BA. $12,000 for RT economy on dohop and haven't got any assurance DL and BA will transfer bags. I am sure I can find cheaper fare.


Have you looked at something like DTW-FRA-Pune Lufthansa's website. Perhaps a cheapish fare for the hop to HYD? It's not the cheapest option obviously but less than $12,000 (around €9,000 return) with just one stop and 22 hours or so total travel time. On Skyscanner, the cheapest one way fare I could see was about 820 euros one way with two stops, Boston and Dubai I think.

The way I see it, starting somewhere like Detroit is always going to put you at a disadvantage. You're spot on with the hubs but what can we do? At least choose the best of the bad options and move on. We have a similar problem here in Berlin. The capital city of the largest economy in Europe, Germany and yet Lufthansa aircraft don't fly internationally from it! Everything short haul is done through the Group's partners, everything longhaul goes through Munich and Frankfurt. By giving folks in Berlin a limited choice in the first place, it makes us more likely to look for alternative routes and therefore less likely to fly LH for example, even though I like the airline itself.

That's fair enough and I don't think BER should be a hub. However, it means in practice, when we go on holidays, we're more likely than not needing to change in Amsterdam, Barcelona, Zurich ect even to fly relatively short distances. I exclude Paris CDG from that list for obvious reasons. That's why we gave our money to KLM flying TXL - AMS - TLS rather than going through FRA with LH, better flight times and better price for ultimately the same EU legacy economy service short haul.

If you fly direct from Berlin to a destination in the EU area, chances are there are more LCC than legacy options. Flying between the historic cities of Berlin and Paris, your choices are Ryanair, Easyjet, Eurowings or Joon. Not even the night train goes direct anymore.
Last edited by dangerhere on Thu May 10, 2018 7:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
slickvik
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:27 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 6:59 pm

Great news, now other LCCs will follow. There was a rumor Scoot would start from UK last year but it fell through.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 5656
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 10, 2018 8:02 pm

m007j wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
I wouldn't mind paying $1300-$1700 to WoW if I they offer one-stop to HYD, rather than 30 hour two-stop for same fare. Don't need two fully loaded bags. I can eat at home, buy a pizza slice at North Terminal and a sandwich at KEF.

I'm the same way as you, I travel light and I eat whatever I can find, but we're two small fish in a very large ocean. I'd happily fly WOW, even if it means 2-stop for me (I fly to MAA) if it'll save me a couple hundred bucks. For the majority of people, that couple hundred isn't going to keep them from the convenience of going full-service.


dangerhere wrote:
The way I see it, starting somewhere like Detroit is always going to put you at a disadvantage.


Not sure where you got the idea I am looking for cheap fares. I will pay $1700 to WoW if it offers DTW-HYD one-stop.

DTW-HYD had TWO one-stops SkyTeam DTW-AMS-HYD and Lufthansa DTW-FRA-HYD before ME3 started dumping capacity. We were about to get BA DTW-LHR-HYD. KL/LH pulled out of HYD and BA pulled out of DTW. Lost all one-stops.

We used to pay $2700, now paying $1300-$1700.

When I moved to US, people used to make fun of Biman taking 3 days from India to USA. 25 years later, not much better.

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