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SRQKEF
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 16, 2018 6:21 pm

hvusslax wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Why WOW and not IcelandAir? Is IcelandAir fizzling out??


Icelandair has been showing impressive growth as well although they get much less media attention than those flashy purple planes. As a publicly traded company, Icelandair is also a lot more transparent with their financials than WOW and they are doing just fine. WOW is in a much riskier position and more likely to "fizzle out" if there is a oil price spike or an economic slowdown in their key markets, although I hope for the best for both carriers.


Concur with everything in this analysis. To add, FI is generally the more conservative airline in its decisions, both regarding fleet additions and new destinations. FI is in a very strong position financially while the cash flow of WOW is very murky. Nevertheless, I absolutely love all the cheap options and activity from KEF and wish both airlines the very best!
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 16, 2018 6:27 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
stl07 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:

Icelandair has 4 767-300ER, but they use them rather on their current routes.

Yes, sry I should have been more clear- Icelandair doesn't have any more room for expansion but wow does because they have widebodies on order, unlike FI who canceled them.


Icelandair still has one 787-8 on order. The 767 were bought after they sold their other 787 slots to Norwegian. If Icelandair wants to add some destination in Asia, it is possible to buy used frames. Icelandair owns most of its frames, whereas WOW leases all its frames. Icelandair is pondering Asian destinations.


That 787 is not going to FI. Period. I'm not sure where it's going, but I do know from sources within senior management it will be moved on to another airline as soon as Boeing finds a new buyer. It's just listed as going to FI until that buyer is found.

However, from what I've heard FI is looking for 2-4 additional 767s which fit their fleet much better both in regards to cheap acquiring cost and capacity. FI makes a point of owning as many of their aircraft as possible and the 767 at around 15-20M$ a frame is perfect for that.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
DSFTEBMNZ
Posts: 32
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 16, 2018 9:11 pm

BWI Airport in the Baltimore-Washington metro area is claiming a "new India destination" one-stop on WOW. Anyone know if Delhi is to have a same plane or same flight number service from BWI?

https://wtop.com/business-finance/2018/ ... th-a-stop/
 
YouGeeElWhy
Posts: 274
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 16, 2018 9:19 pm

DSFTEBMNZ wrote:
BWI Airport in the Baltimore-Washington metro area is claiming a "new India destination" one-stop on WOW. Anyone know if Delhi is to have a same plane or same flight number service from BWI?

https://wtop.com/business-finance/2018/ ... th-a-stop/
The marketing folks at BWI are thirsty.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 16, 2018 9:22 pm

SRQKEF wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Yes, sry I should have been more clear- Icelandair doesn't have any more room for expansion but wow does because they have widebodies on order, unlike FI who canceled them.


Icelandair still has one 787-8 on order. The 767 were bought after they sold their other 787 slots to Norwegian. If Icelandair wants to add some destination in Asia, it is possible to buy used frames. Icelandair owns most of its frames, whereas WOW leases all its frames. Icelandair is pondering Asian destinations.


That 787 is not going to FI. Period. I'm not sure where it's going, but I do know from sources within senior management it will be moved on to another airline as soon as Boeing finds a new buyer. It's just listed as going to FI until that buyer is found.

However, from what I've heard FI is looking for 2-4 additional 767s which fit their fleet much better both in regards to cheap acquiring cost and capacity. FI makes a point of owning as many of their aircraft as possible and the 767 at around 15-20M$ a frame is perfect for that.


I’m surprised that FI didn’t keep the order and act as a lessor, similar to when it kept the 737 NG order. The 737 MAX aircraft are being partially sold and leased back (deals for some were signed with Bank of Communication -Shanghai and Sumitomo Mitsubishi Financial to that end). However, FI owns all but one of its passenger 757 aircraft and 3 of the 4 767s (a single 767 is leased from GECAS). That said, where is FI going to find a 763 with 4 doors and 4 overwing exits? My guess is that they could try to purchase Meridiana or TUI 767s from their lessors or the Airlines, although those are 8 door frames.
 
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stl07
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 16, 2018 10:22 pm

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
DSFTEBMNZ wrote:
BWI Airport in the Baltimore-Washington metro area is claiming a "new India destination" one-stop on WOW. Anyone know if Delhi is to have a same plane or same flight number service from BWI?

https://wtop.com/business-finance/2018/ ... th-a-stop/
The marketing folks at BWI are thirsty.

They do bring in the widebodies to the east coast sometimes and connect over to Paris so who knows
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 16, 2018 10:28 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
SRQKEF wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:

Icelandair still has one 787-8 on order. The 767 were bought after they sold their other 787 slots to Norwegian. If Icelandair wants to add some destination in Asia, it is possible to buy used frames. Icelandair owns most of its frames, whereas WOW leases all its frames. Icelandair is pondering Asian destinations.


That 787 is not going to FI. Period. I'm not sure where it's going, but I do know from sources within senior management it will be moved on to another airline as soon as Boeing finds a new buyer. It's just listed as going to FI until that buyer is found.

However, from what I've heard FI is looking for 2-4 additional 767s which fit their fleet much better both in regards to cheap acquiring cost and capacity. FI makes a point of owning as many of their aircraft as possible and the 767 at around 15-20M$ a frame is perfect for that.


I’m surprised that FI didn’t keep the order and act as a lessor, similar to when it kept the 737 NG order. The 737 MAX aircraft are being partially sold and leased back (deals for some were signed with Bank of Communication -Shanghai and Sumitomo Mitsubishi Financial to that end). However, FI owns all but one of its passenger 757 aircraft and 3 of the 4 767s (a single 767 is leased from GECAS). That said, where is FI going to find a 763 with 4 doors and 4 overwing exits? My guess is that they could try to purchase Meridiana or TUI 767s from their lessors or the Airlines, although those are 8 door frames.


I am not so sure that FI will not take the 787 and lease it out, when the time comes.
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 16, 2018 11:39 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
SRQKEF wrote:

That 787 is not going to FI. Period. I'm not sure where it's going, but I do know from sources within senior management it will be moved on to another airline as soon as Boeing finds a new buyer. It's just listed as going to FI until that buyer is found.

However, from what I've heard FI is looking for 2-4 additional 767s which fit their fleet much better both in regards to cheap acquiring cost and capacity. FI makes a point of owning as many of their aircraft as possible and the 767 at around 15-20M$ a frame is perfect for that.


I’m surprised that FI didn’t keep the order and act as a lessor, similar to when it kept the 737 NG order. The 737 MAX aircraft are being partially sold and leased back (deals for some were signed with Bank of Communication -Shanghai and Sumitomo Mitsubishi Financial to that end). However, FI owns all but one of its passenger 757 aircraft and 3 of the 4 767s (a single 767 is leased from GECAS). That said, where is FI going to find a 763 with 4 doors and 4 overwing exits? My guess is that they could try to purchase Meridiana or TUI 767s from their lessors or the Airlines, although those are 8 door frames.


I am not so sure that FI will not take the 787 and lease it out, when the time comes.


That's absolutely an option. Unfortunately, it will never wear the FI colors though. Probably a smart decision for the airline at this moment in time, but for us enthusiasts the more variety, the better! ;)
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 16, 2018 11:41 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
SRQKEF wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:

Icelandair still has one 787-8 on order. The 767 were bought after they sold their other 787 slots to Norwegian. If Icelandair wants to add some destination in Asia, it is possible to buy used frames. Icelandair owns most of its frames, whereas WOW leases all its frames. Icelandair is pondering Asian destinations.


That 787 is not going to FI. Period. I'm not sure where it's going, but I do know from sources within senior management it will be moved on to another airline as soon as Boeing finds a new buyer. It's just listed as going to FI until that buyer is found.

However, from what I've heard FI is looking for 2-4 additional 767s which fit their fleet much better both in regards to cheap acquiring cost and capacity. FI makes a point of owning as many of their aircraft as possible and the 767 at around 15-20M$ a frame is perfect for that.


I’m surprised that FI didn’t keep the order and act as a lessor, similar to when it kept the 737 NG order. The 737 MAX aircraft are being partially sold and leased back (deals for some were signed with Bank of Communication -Shanghai and Sumitomo Mitsubishi Financial to that end). However, FI owns all but one of its passenger 757 aircraft and 3 of the 4 767s (a single 767 is leased from GECAS). That said, where is FI going to find a 763 with 4 doors and 4 overwing exits? My guess is that they could try to purchase Meridiana or TUI 767s from their lessors or the Airlines, although those are 8 door frames.


There are also the 767s being retired from the US3. AA, DL and UA are all retiring 767s and FI already has a sizeable fleet of ex-AA 757s so the precedent's there.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
anshabhi
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Wed May 16, 2018 11:50 pm

DSFTEBMNZ wrote:
BWI Airport in the Baltimore-Washington metro area is claiming a "new India destination" one-stop on WOW. Anyone know if Delhi is to have a same plane or same flight number service from BWI?

https://wtop.com/business-finance/2018/ ... th-a-stop/

Different flight numbers and a 6h 45m layover actually ...
https://booking.wowair.com/search?fromC ... 1526488502
 
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aemoreira1981
Posts: 2008
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Thu May 17, 2018 4:32 am

SRQKEF wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
SRQKEF wrote:

That 787 is not going to FI. Period. I'm not sure where it's going, but I do know from sources within senior management it will be moved on to another airline as soon as Boeing finds a new buyer. It's just listed as going to FI until that buyer is found.

However, from what I've heard FI is looking for 2-4 additional 767s which fit their fleet much better both in regards to cheap acquiring cost and capacity. FI makes a point of owning as many of their aircraft as possible and the 767 at around 15-20M$ a frame is perfect for that.


I’m surprised that FI didn’t keep the order and act as a lessor, similar to when it kept the 737 NG order. The 737 MAX aircraft are being partially sold and leased back (deals for some were signed with Bank of Communication -Shanghai and Sumitomo Mitsubishi Financial to that end). However, FI owns all but one of its passenger 757 aircraft and 3 of the 4 767s (a single 767 is leased from GECAS). That said, where is FI going to find a 763 with 4 doors and 4 overwing exits? My guess is that they could try to purchase Meridiana or TUI 767s from their lessors or the Airlines, although those are 8 door frames.


There are also the 767s being retired from the US3. AA, DL and UA are all retiring 767s and FI already has a sizeable fleet of ex-AA 757s so the precedent's there.


DL's 767s, when retired, will be past 110,000 hours and some are at about 130,000 hours. The top-up AA B763s might be available, but not for several more years.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Fri May 18, 2018 10:35 am

According to this new thread, no Russia overflight rights for Icelandic airlines. That puts anything east of Delhi on hold for WW (and FI), I guess...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1394467
 
airberlin2017
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 4:40 am

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:34 pm

Due the very awful prebookings (sometimes 10 pax and fewer from Mid Januar to Late March... :shock: ) on the new route to Delhi, WOW Air flies until the end of March just 3x weekly to the indian capital.

Flights on SFO-KEF-DEL no longer work with the reduction on KEF-DEL! :?
 
filipair
Posts: 146
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:52 pm

Source on the actual numbers?
 
mfe777
Posts: 178
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:24 am

If they could have gotten these flights to connect to their DFW flights, they could siphon off some of the substantial DFW-India traffic from EK and QR! Wonder if they could make money on that.
 
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binayak
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:47 am

airberlin2017 wrote:
Due the very awful prebookings (sometimes 10 pax and fewer from Mid Januar to Late March... :shock: ) on the new route to Delhi, WOW Air flies until the end of March just 3x weekly to the indian capital.

Flights on SFO-KEF-DEL no longer work with the reduction on KEF-DEL! :?


And now where are those "experts" who predicted that India is the place where long haul LCC will work the best .!!
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:40 am

I don’t know how it’s going to do. It’s a long flight stuck in seats with that pitch. If the fares too high they’ll not attract pax and if it’s too low they’ll lose their shirt.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
klm672
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:03 am

vadodara wrote:
Another LCC joining the fray! Are the 'full-service' guys still around?

No.
 
behramjee
Posts: 4669
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:57 am

This route had from day 1 a very short lifespan and for WOW to have suspended TLV showcases that they have learnt nothing from that failed experiment hence why would they launch DEL which is a much longer flight with an expensive new WB aircraft being solely dependent on low yielding 6th freedom traffic bound to US east coast ?

For long haul lcc to survive on such new routes there needs to be a decent mix of both p2p and transfer traffic flow to compliment each other year round. Unfortunately Iceland doesn’t have that kind of p2p demand to anywhere in Asia and Africa.

WOW is better off flying the A33Ns in peak summer season to USA EU where demand is strong and in the low IATA winter season wet lease their WB acft to interested parties for 4-6 months.
 
jmmadrid
Posts: 288
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:58 am

Bagagge.

WOW's India-USA fares might seem wow until you remember that not even hand baggage is included. Factor in a carry on plus a checked bag and you need to add 100 euros to the price, and THEN the plot twists and you find similar priced flights with Qatar, Emirates and Turkish, with a better pitch and full meal service.

Low cost long haul is tricky: Price it too high and people will rather pay a bit more to fly a full service airline, price it too low and you lose money.

Maybe there's an opportunity in the summer, when everybody wants to fly and legacy airlines get greedy, so you have more margin to play with fares, but the rest of the year you lose the price advantage.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:01 am

binayak wrote:
And now where are those "experts" who predicted that India is the place where long haul LCC will work the best .!!


I always thought that this WOW to India was a dumb idea, but I think there is a niche for some long haul LCC between India and Europe.

Ironically, nowadays travelling Europe-India can be comparatively more expensive than to other long-haul destinations.

Europe-China? Chinese carriers giving non-stop tickets away. Europe-US? Legacies lowering prices to compete with Norwegian/Primera/etc.

So even if in Europe-India there is the ME3, often now prices from Europe are higher to DEL or BOM than to furthest destinations like California or China.

Also with more Indians travelling abroad and ME3 quite limited with their number of seats to India, there is probably less need for ME3 carriers to fill Europe-India flights on the cheap.
 
klm617
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:33 pm

jmmadrid wrote:
Bagagge.

WOW's India-USA fares might seem wow until you remember that not even hand baggage is included. Factor in a carry on plus a checked bag and you need to add 100 euros to the price, and THEN the plot twists and you find similar priced flights with Qatar, Emirates and Turkish, with a better pitch and full meal service.

Low cost long haul is tricky: Price it too high and people will rather pay a bit more to fly a full service airline, price it too low and you lose money.

Maybe there's an opportunity in the summer, when everybody wants to fly and legacy airlines get greedy, so you have more margin to play with fares, but the rest of the year you lose the price advantage.


While you say that you forget that some of the cities that have connections to India via WOW have no ME3 service. Agreed if you live in places like NYC or BOS you're probably not going to chose WOW but in places like DTW, STL, PIT and BWI WOW is a great low cost option that these airports do not have and lets face if price is what is driving your purchase your comfort level is probably secondary. While us Westerners value our comfort but for people in places like Africa, India, Pakistan and the Middle East getting from point A to point B at reasonable price is more important than the over all comfort of the flight.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Lapplander800
Posts: 14
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Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:03 pm

airberlin2017 wrote:
Due the very awful prebookings (sometimes 10 pax and fewer from Mid Januar to Late March... :shock: ) on the new route to Delhi, WOW Air flies until the end of March just 3x weekly to the indian capital.

Flights on SFO-KEF-DEL no longer work with the reduction on KEF-DEL! :?


Very interesting given that the original 5 weekly DEL-KEF -DEL flights originally loaded for the winter season are still available for purchase at WOW.

Is there a source?
 
airberlin2017
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 4:40 am

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:17 pm

No, 2 of the 5 weekly services to DEL are removed 2 days ago from the bookingsystem and GDS:

Image
 
Lapplander800
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:56 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:28 am

airberlin2017 wrote:
Due the very awful prebookings (sometimes 10 pax and fewer from Mid Januar to Late March... :shock: ) on the new route to Delhi, WOW Air flies until the end of March just 3x weekly to the indian capital.

Flights on SFO-KEF-DEL no longer work with the reduction on KEF-DEL! :?


As per WOW's spokesperson, the reduction in frequencies is due to a delay in delivery of the A330NEO (4 on order) and will ramp up once deliveries are back on track.

https://turisti.is/2018/09/faekka-ferdum-til-nyju-deli/
 
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hvusslax
Posts: 327
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:35 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:37 pm

Lapplander800 wrote:
airberlin2017 wrote:
Due the very awful prebookings (sometimes 10 pax and fewer from Mid Januar to Late March... :shock: ) on the new route to Delhi, WOW Air flies until the end of March just 3x weekly to the indian capital.

Flights on SFO-KEF-DEL no longer work with the reduction on KEF-DEL! :?


As per WOW's spokesperson, the reduction in frequencies is due to a delay in delivery of the A330NEO (4 on order) and will ramp up once deliveries are back on track.

https://turisti.is/2018/09/faekka-ferdum-til-nyju-deli/


Probably a good thing for WOW to have the delivery delayed. Better than having to operate the thing at a loss.
 
arcticcruiser
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:16 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:57 pm

I can’t see 4 A339 being needed for 3-5 DEL flights per week, so something else is needed. And how are they going to manage 3x DEL on the current fleet? Which current destinations will lose frequencies or flights altogether?
 
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hvusslax
Posts: 327
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:35 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:07 pm

arcticcruiser wrote:
I can’t see 4 A339 being needed for 3-5 DEL flights per week, so something else is needed. And how are they going to manage 3x DEL on the current fleet? Which current destinations will lose frequencies or flights altogether?


I think the DEL route needed only the first two of those four. The latter two will then need something to do as well.
 
Neoman
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:43 pm

Re: Wow Air to announce flights to Delhi

Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:11 pm

Dallas FW finishes at the end of the summer, so that leaves SFO, LAX and the new route for the 330 fleet.

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