Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
worldranger wrote:Full financial disclosure - show 16 deliveries next year with 11 retirements. Pretty slow growth compared to past.
STC has mentioned the 789 in two separate interviews. EK did not order them. I’m going out on a limb and predicting 789 before 2022, possibly EY aircraft - somewhere in the 2019/20 timeframe.
They desperately need that size aircraft.
According to sources - SEA BOS & LIS all wanted 2nd daily back but with 330 size capacity, LIS settled for 77W.
worldranger wrote:Full financial disclosure - show 16 deliveries next year with 11 retirements. Pretty slow growth compared to past.
STC has mentioned the 789 in two separate interviews. EK did not order them. I’m going out on a limb and predicting 789 before 2022, possibly EY aircraft - somewhere in the 2019/20 timeframe.
They desperately need that size aircraft.
According to sources - SEA BOS & LIS all wanted 2nd daily back but with 330 size capacity, LIS settled for 77W.
Kashmon wrote:UAE should just mandate all foreign airlines must move to DWC ...
Etheereal wrote:So .. wasnt EK supposedly operating at a loss, just to compete with the US3?
dtw2hyd wrote:Kashmon wrote:UAE should just mandate all foreign airlines must move to DWC ...
In case you forgot it is predominantly a sixth freedom carrier survives on BASAs granted by other countries. Not in a position to demand anything.
Jayafe wrote:Haters gonna hate, anyway...dtw2hyd wrote:Kashmon wrote:UAE should just mandate all foreign airlines must move to DWC ...
In case you forgot it is predominantly a sixth freedom carrier survives on BASAs granted by other countries. Not in a position to demand anything.
Do you seriously expect BASA's cancellation from any country because someone thinks that is better operating one airport than other? No, you don't. Oh, do you?
Kashmon wrote:UAE should just mandate all foreign airlines must move to DWC ( except EK partners)
and provide a free express bus ( no train to DWC right?) or something for all passengers flying DWC ( sweeten the deal for other airlines)
Allow a few airlines from non cooperative countries to fly fifth freedom on some routes from DWC
This way EK will have enough room to grow and time to plan its own move to DWC
DL747400 wrote:Etheereal wrote:So .. wasnt EK supposedly operating at a loss, just to compete with the US3?
They would be operating at a loss were it not for all of the government subsidies they receive. Strangely, I didn't see those subsidies listed in the financial statement. How very odd....
Kashmon wrote:UAE should just mandate all foreign airlines must move to DWC ( except EK partners)
and provide a free express bus ( no train to DWC right?) or something for all passengers flying DWC ( sweeten the deal for other airlines)
Allow a few airlines from non cooperative countries to fly fifth freedom on some routes from DWC
This way EK will have enough room to grow and time to plan its own move to DWC
xwb777 wrote:Emirates Revenue by region:
Europe = 29.3%
East Asia and Australasia =27.9%
Americas = 14.7%
Africa = 10.2%
Gulf and Middle East = 9.4%
West Asia and Indian Ocean = 8.5%
Etheereal wrote:... If they're effectively getting subsidies, then those should show up as income in that case. *thinking*
lightsaber wrote:Kashmon wrote:UAE should just mandate all foreign airlines must move to DWC ( except EK partners)
and provide a free express bus ( no train to DWC right?) or something for all passengers flying DWC ( sweeten the deal for other airlines)
Allow a few airlines from non cooperative countries to fly fifth freedom on some routes from DWC
This way EK will have enough room to grow and time to plan its own move to DWC
Then by bilateral rules, all flights to those nations move to DWC.
Bilaterals exist to prevent such unilateral moves as you suggested. It is a standard clause. There are only two unilateral moves allowed:
1. Revert to a prior bilateral (a standard clause in almost all bilaterals).
2. Cancel a bilateral (end trade).
Neither is attractive. For example, the UK could rule all flights to and from the UK are DWC and all flights from Dubai are prohibited to use LHR. That one example shows why this is a dangerous game to consider. I can come up with many more.
Moving EK to DWC requires investing tens of billions into DWC. EK/Dubai cannot afford that.
So EK grows 2% or so a year and is no longer the aviation Boggyman.
Ghad, a scarier situation would be what India, Germany, and France would do with their bilaterals if Dubai started a trade war as you suggest. Make no mistake, you are advocating all out conflict negotiations. EK doesn't work with split traffic. Heck, FlyDubai is having to stay at DXB (mostly) as they need connections.
DXB has set up rules to be a wayport. Every airline must accept transfer passengers from every other airlines as long as the passport is valid. Those rules made Dubai a thriving hub.
In a massive trade war, Dubai would be bankrupt in two years.
Lightsaber
dtw2hyd wrote:Etheereal wrote:... If they're effectively getting subsidies, then those should show up as income in that case. *thinking*
Need not be a income. It could be just a sweet heart deal from an arm length sister concern.
58.5 Million passengers during 2017-18.
AED 3323 Million spent on In-flight catering and others.
AED 56.80 per passenger
USD 15.52 per passenger for a ulh/lh full service carrier.
Think about it.
Jayafe wrote:Haters gonna hate, anyway...dtw2hyd wrote:Kashmon wrote:UAE should just mandate all foreign airlines must move to DWC ...
In case you forgot it is predominantly a sixth freedom carrier survives on BASAs granted by other countries. Not in a position to demand anything.
Do you seriously expect BASA's cancellation from any country because someone thinks that is better operating one airport than other? No, you don't. Oh, do you?
Kashmon wrote:lightsaber wrote:Kashmon wrote:UAE should just mandate all foreign airlines must move to DWC ( except EK partners)
and provide a free express bus ( no train to DWC right?) or something for all passengers flying DWC ( sweeten the deal for other airlines)
Allow a few airlines from non cooperative countries to fly fifth freedom on some routes from DWC
This way EK will have enough room to grow and time to plan its own move to DWC
Then by bilateral rules, all flights to those nations move to DWC.
Bilaterals exist to prevent such unilateral moves as you suggested. It is a standard clause. There are only two unilateral moves allowed:
1. Revert to a prior bilateral (a standard clause in almost all bilaterals).
2. Cancel a bilateral (end trade).
Neither is attractive. For example, the UK could rule all flights to and from the UK are DWC and all flights from Dubai are prohibited to use LHR. That one example shows why this is a dangerous game to consider. I can come up with many more.
Moving EK to DWC requires investing tens of billions into DWC. EK/Dubai cannot afford that.
So EK grows 2% or so a year and is no longer the aviation Boggyman.
Ghad, a scarier situation would be what India, Germany, and France would do with their bilaterals if Dubai started a trade war as you suggest. Make no mistake, you are advocating all out conflict negotiations. EK doesn't work with split traffic. Heck, FlyDubai is having to stay at DXB (mostly) as they need connections.
DXB has set up rules to be a wayport. Every airline must accept transfer passengers from every other airlines as long as the passport is valid. Those rules made Dubai a thriving hub.
In a massive trade war, Dubai would be bankrupt in two years.
Lightsaber
No trade war
The countries that do not cooperate will lose and reduce choice for their own citizens...
plus Dubai has to work with the countries
EVERYONE will have to move to DWC eventually so any perceived loss on other countries is only short term.
Dubai should offer fifth freedom rights out of DWC to companies that kick a big fuss ( giving foreign airlines the same advantage you have)
There won't be any trade war, EK provides the largest revenue to most African and South Asian airports- they do not want that money gone.
Dubai has to do something or EK won't achieve what it wants to achieve and Dubai won't be an aviation hub
( allowing foreign countries to set up mini hubs at DWC would classify them and likely KILL Etihad)
It is a compromise on both sides
PerfectGriffin wrote:xwb777 wrote:Emirates Revenue by region:
Europe = 29.3%
East Asia and Australasia =27.9%
Americas = 14.7%
Africa = 10.2%
Gulf and Middle East = 9.4%
West Asia and Indian Ocean = 8.5%
A good balance but the Americas and Africa still have much more room to grow.
Polot wrote:PerfectGriffin wrote:xwb777 wrote:Emirates Revenue by region:
Europe = 29.3%
East Asia and Australasia =27.9%
Americas = 14.7%
Africa = 10.2%
Gulf and Middle East = 9.4%
West Asia and Indian Ocean = 8.5%
A good balance but the Americas and Africa still have much more room to grow.
Europe and East Asia/Australiasia will always be higher in terms of percent of total revenue just due to geography. Americas is farther away and has fewer natural traffic flows that EK can capture and Africa is a smaller (albeit often high yielding) market.
lightsaber wrote:Polot wrote:PerfectGriffin wrote:
A good balance but the Americas and Africa still have much more room to grow.
Europe and East Asia/Australiasia will always be higher in terms of percent of total revenue just due to geography. Americas is farther away and has fewer natural traffic flows that EK can capture and Africa is a smaller (albeit often high yielding) market.
I actually expected West Asia to be more revenue as East Asia is further away. I believe this is an artifact of India refusing to expand bilaterals.
Lightsaber
Polot wrote:lightsaber wrote:Polot wrote:Europe and East Asia/Australiasia will always be higher in terms of percent of total revenue just due to geography. Americas is farther away and has fewer natural traffic flows that EK can capture and Africa is a smaller (albeit often high yielding) market.
I actually expected West Asia to be more revenue as East Asia is further away. I believe this is an artifact of India refusing to expand bilaterals.
Lightsaber
It can also be an artifact of how EK is splitting up revenue from connecting internaries.
Kashmon wrote:...
FOOD is cheap
I am surprised it is that high!
dtw2hyd wrote:Kashmon wrote:...
FOOD is cheap
I am surprised it is that high!
Inflight food is NOT cheap. $15.5 won't cover one economy meal, let alone multiple meals on ULH, drinks and premium cabin Dom, Caviar and chocolates.
Can someone in catering comment on this.
dtw2hyd wrote:Kashmon wrote:...
FOOD is cheap
I am surprised it is that high!
Inflight food is NOT cheap. $15.5 won't cover one economy meal, let alone multiple meals on ULH, drinks and premium cabin Dom, Caviar and chocolates.
Can someone in catering comment on this.
dtw2hyd wrote:Kashmon wrote:...
FOOD is cheap
I am surprised it is that high!
Inflight food is NOT cheap. $15.5 won't cover one economy meal, let alone multiple meals on ULH, drinks and premium cabin Dom, Caviar and chocolates.
Can someone in catering comment on this.
PerfectGriffin wrote:dtw2hyd wrote:Kashmon wrote:...
FOOD is cheap
I am surprised it is that high!
Inflight food is NOT cheap. $15.5 won't cover one economy meal, let alone multiple meals on ULH, drinks and premium cabin Dom, Caviar and chocolates.
Can someone in catering comment on this.
I believe EK runs the largest flight catering center in the world with many automated processes, so they lower costs there. And food costs in the UAE are generally cheap especially fruits and vegetables.
dtw2hyd wrote:Nice try though. Did some research. One Economy meal costs close to $10. Business meal close to $25. Both not including drinks.
US3 spent $4-$5 on each domestic passenger complimentary snack and soft drinks (ie., no hot meals or liquor)
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articl ... -meal-cost
Economy ULH - two-and-half hot meals + soft drinks + liquor = $35
Economy Medium Haul- one-and-half hot meal + soft drinks + liquor =$25
Economy Short haul - one hot meal + soft drinks + liquor = $20.
These are very conservative estimates, not for world class inflight service.
ps: Dish is not a meal.
These are very conservative estimates, not for world class inflight service.
TheFlyingRaven wrote:
Even if we take a hugely pessimistic view on costs and say that it's $45 per person, that would only triple their costs from $58.5m to $175.5m, a difference of $97m. On group profits of $1.1b, that's less than 1% of their profits. If you take it off revenue, it's something like 0.003% (I think - the numbers are getting quite big to work out off the top of my head).
Let's not even consider that most of Emirates flights are medium-haul and, from my experiences, distinctly average in food offerings in economy and the economy of scale they have in their own catering facilities at DXB.
Emirates are lying about the cost of catering and that it's being subsidised. .
dtw2hyd wrote:Hence the opinionEmirates are lying about the cost of catering and that it's being subsidised. .
EK006 wrote:https://www.instagram.com/p/Bii7otwgsNh/
https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/emirates-group-announces-2017-18-results
This is from their Instagram feed And news centre
Overall a solid performance yet again
Jayafe wrote:dtw2hyd wrote:Hence the opinionEmirates are lying about the cost of catering and that it's being subsidised. .
No matter how many times and in how many topics a lie is repeated, it'll still be a lie.