tigerotor77w
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UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Tue May 08, 2018 10:01 pm

Just came across this on Reuters:

PARIS/NEW YORK (Reuters) - United Airlines (UAL.N) is in talks with planemakers Airbus (AIR.PA) and Boeing Co (BA.N) over the purchase of wide-body, long-haul passenger jets to replace a fleet of 50 Boeing 767 aircraft, people familiar with the discussions said on Tuesday.


Article / source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-unit ... SKBN1I9361

Will whatever they order come with a proper premium economy? :D
 
george77300
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Tue May 08, 2018 10:07 pm

Makes a lot of sense as waiting for the 797/MOM is a long way off.

This definitely is Boeing’s to lose seeing as United have a large B787 fleet with 14 more coming and would make more sense than operating a new type in the A330neo. They don’t even have A330ceo and in Americans case that went to B787. If I was a betting man it’s more 787-8 and or 787-9 at United. Then the A359 will cover B77E replacement.
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Polot
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Tue May 08, 2018 10:08 pm

I suspect that there is a second jet Boeing will be pitching, just one they officially can’t offer at the moment....
 
george77300
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Tue May 08, 2018 10:11 pm

Polot wrote:
I suspect that there is a second jet Boeing will be pitching, just one they officially can’t offer at the moment....


Oh absolutely although United and those old B767 might not want to or even be able to hang on until 2025/2026 for the first deliveries.
A306 A313 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A388

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Polot
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Tue May 08, 2018 10:15 pm

george77300 wrote:
Polot wrote:
I suspect that there is a second jet Boeing will be pitching, just one they officially can’t offer at the moment....


Oh absolutely although United and those old B767 might not want to or even be able to hang on until 2025/2026 for the first deliveries.

Boeing will pitch 787s in the interim, either as leases (like they apparently doing with the 788 and AA) or just outright as a quick replacement for the oldest frames that then can be shifted to another role as the 797 comes in.
 
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iahcsr
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Tue May 08, 2018 10:20 pm

george77300 wrote:
Polot wrote:
I suspect that there is a second jet Boeing will be pitching, just one they officially can’t offer at the moment....


Oh absolutely although United and those old B767 might not want to or even be able to hang on until 2025/2026 for the first deliveries.

If B is willing to offer 788s at a very good price in turn for major order of ‘second jet’ if/when .... ?
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jetero
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Tue May 08, 2018 10:26 pm

Is there an outstanding narrowbody RFP as well?
 
Momo1435
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Tue May 08, 2018 10:33 pm

Yeah this must be a A330neo vs 787/797 combo competition, Airbus might throw in some A321neoLR's as well.

We'll see how long this thread or any future threads on this subject becomes before they announce the decision.
 
rj777
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Tue May 08, 2018 10:40 pm

Are the 764s included in the retirement plans?
 
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Polot
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Tue May 08, 2018 10:40 pm

iahcsr wrote:
george77300 wrote:
Polot wrote:
I suspect that there is a second jet Boeing will be pitching, just one they officially can’t offer at the moment....


Oh absolutely although United and those old B767 might not want to or even be able to hang on until 2025/2026 for the first deliveries.

If B is willing to offer 788s at a very good price in turn for major order of ‘second jet’ if/when .... ?

I suspect by the time this RFP is completed Boeing will have authority to offer the 797, so it wouldn’t be a conditional 787 order but rather a combo 787/797 order (if Boeing wins).
 
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Polot
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Tue May 08, 2018 10:49 pm

rj777 wrote:
Are the 764s included in the retirement plans?

If they are talking about replacing 50 767s yes, although I imagine those would probably be among the last planes to retire and can last until the middle of the next decade (when they would be ~25 years old). It won’t make much sense to continue to operate a fleet of only 16 764s for an airline the size of UA. So their future will be limited when UA dumps the 763s.
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Tue May 08, 2018 11:09 pm

Not going to bash on Boeing for not restarting the 767 line; it wouldn’t be worth it for them just to keep United from going to Airbus.

I understand the 788 is too heavy for most of the routes used by the 767 as well. If they still really want the 797, perhaps lease some a330s then return them once the 797s start rolling in? Why bother with switching types, I suppose..
 
727200
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Tue May 08, 2018 11:10 pm

Can't see them ordering the 330s; it would be another fleet type when they are trying to simplify. I'm thinking it will be 78's with a few more 9's for expansion.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Tue May 08, 2018 11:18 pm

Would be a big surprise to me if this wasn't a 787 order. I think the true MOM is being ordered--the 788/9.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 12:04 am

727200 wrote:
Can't see them ordering the 330s; it would be another fleet type when they are trying to simplify. I'm thinking it will be 78's with a few more 9's for expansion.


A 50 jet fleet is substantial enough to justify a new fleet type. I still think this is Boeing’s order to lose, but I also sense the current UA leadership will give serious consideration to a creative/compelling Airbus offer.
 
HIA350
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 12:22 am

Airbus needs this order, they need united to test the mighty a330, i bet they will pitch it at a low price to get a deal
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 12:26 am

HIA350 wrote:
Airbus needs this order, they need united to test the mighty a330, i bet they will pitch it at a low price to get a deal


United is not touching the A330. The only aircraft from Airbus that has a chance is the A321
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 1:35 am

ikolkyo wrote:
HIA350 wrote:
Airbus needs this order, they need united to test the mighty a330, i bet they will pitch it at a low price to get a deal


United is not touching the A330. The only aircraft from Airbus that has a chance is the A321


I think that sentiment is a tad strong. The 787 has the inside track but in looking at replacing the 767, the 330 is lighter, its cheaper and could be a lot cheaper depending on what Airbus is willing to do to score the order.

The interesting things is the 339 is a lot bigger than the 767 but the 338 is not. If they got a great deal and did a paper/software derate on the 338, that my friends might be enough to swing the deal.

The more likely option is B leasing 788s to UA for a lease term tied to delivery/acceptance of the 797/MoM. The 788s will be pretty awesome with the changes Boeing is incorporating so as to have more parts commonality with the 789.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 1:38 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
727200 wrote:
Can't see them ordering the 330s; it would be another fleet type when they are trying to simplify. I'm thinking it will be 78's with a few more 9's for expansion.


A 50 jet fleet is substantial enough to justify a new fleet type. I still think this is Boeing’s order to lose, but I also sense the current UA leadership will give serious consideration to a creative/compelling Airbus offer.


Fifty is, but it won't/can't be 50 MOMs to replace 767s - United can't wait long enough for delivery of 50. It would also be very risky to take the 767s to end of life hoping the MOM is on time...

Twenty 787s and 30 MOMs, with an option for more MOMs? Sure.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 1:42 am

SonomaFlyer wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
HIA350 wrote:
Airbus needs this order, they need united to test the mighty a330, i bet they will pitch it at a low price to get a deal


United is not touching the A330. The only aircraft from Airbus that has a chance is the A321


I think that sentiment is a tad strong. The 787 has the inside track but in looking at replacing the 767, the 330 is lighter, its cheaper and could be a lot cheaper depending on what Airbus is willing to do to score the order.

The interesting things is the 339 is a lot bigger than the 767 but the 338 is not. If they got a great deal and did a paper/software derate on the 338, that my friends might be enough to swing the deal.

The more likely option is B leasing 788s to UA for a lease term tied to delivery/acceptance of the 797/MoM. The 788s will be pretty awesome with the changes Boeing is incorporating so as to have more parts commonality with the 789.


They have zero A330 pilots, it adds a new fleet type which makes them have to do a lot of work on the maintenance end. A330 simulators will need to be ordered and there will need to be new fleet type training for pilots and FAs. Why in the world would any airline, no matter the deal want to have the A338? It's currently orphan aircraft that will have poor leasing terms and resale value. Its either 787 or A321 for this job and I think the 787 has it just like the AA deal.
 
dmstorm22
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 2:05 am

Polot wrote:
iahcsr wrote:
george77300 wrote:

Oh absolutely although United and those old B767 might not want to or even be able to hang on until 2025/2026 for the first deliveries.

If B is willing to offer 788s at a very good price in turn for major order of ‘second jet’ if/when .... ?

I suspect by the time this RFP is completed Boeing will have authority to offer the 797, so it wouldn’t be a conditional 787 order but rather a combo 787/797 order (if Boeing wins).


How close are they to being able to confidently bid on a proposal with the 797/MOM?

Also, is United really going with a 50-order with what would be 7/8 years out? Maybe there can be a contingent offer of the 797? Apologies, don't know too much on how tight these orders have to be.

Putting 797 aside, Gotta think they'll look for B788 from boeing at a good rate/lease to buy, or maybe A321lr from UA if it can run their TATL and LATAM routes?
 
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 2:14 am

dmstorm22 wrote:
Gotta think they'll look for B788 from boeing at a good rate, or maybe A321lr from UA if it can run their TATL and LATAM routes?

A321LR can do some of the favorable pairings (EWR-EU, HOU-LATAM) but not the unfavorable ones (EWR-LATAM, HOU-EU) given the kind of configurations UA has in its fleet.

It's kind of the same situation that makes LH a potential NMA customer too.
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flyguy84
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 2:16 am

They will NOT be ordering A321LRs as 767 replacements.
 
Airlinepilot129
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 2:29 am

I'd hardly call that article a source. The company has said that they are not going to be considering a replacement for both the older 777s and the 767 fleet for some time in the future.
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bigjku
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 2:30 am

SonomaFlyer wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
HIA350 wrote:
Airbus needs this order, they need united to test the mighty a330, i bet they will pitch it at a low price to get a deal


United is not touching the A330. The only aircraft from Airbus that has a chance is the A321


I think that sentiment is a tad strong. The 787 has the inside track but in looking at replacing the 767, the 330 is lighter, its cheaper and could be a lot cheaper depending on what Airbus is willing to do to score the order.

The interesting things is the 339 is a lot bigger than the 767 but the 338 is not. If they got a great deal and did a paper/software derate on the 338, that my friends might be enough to swing the deal.

The more likely option is B leasing 788s to UA for a lease term tied to delivery/acceptance of the 797/MoM. The 788s will be pretty awesome with the changes Boeing is incorporating so as to have more parts commonality with the 789.


Is the A339neo lighter? We know that the A330-300 is about 14,000 pounds lighter. But the A339neo has to carry 7,000 more pounds of engines plus structure to support it so it’s should be very close. We will have to see when documents come out regarding that how it stacks up.

As for cheaper I am not convinced it is anymore. It has lost on price at Hawaiian and presumably that was a factor at American too. It seems to me there is every probability that Boeing has only started to leverage lower 787 cost in the last 6-12 months or so. Before 2017 I don’t think they knew if they could get there or not. Now Boeing seems content to kill that A330neo and with more expensive engines I am not so sure it’s actually cheaper than the 787 anymore.
 
DBKissORD
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 2:38 am

I have recently crossed the Atlantic on N660UA 1993 3 Class and N672UA 1999 2 Class they were both well maintained. After the Polaris project is complete I see no reason they can’t be in service for 7 more years. As a side note niether flight was full so a much larger aircraft would not be a fit - it was an off day / time so that is relative.

A few thoughts:
- An RFP does not always yield an order.
- I wonder if fuel prices going up have anything to do with this?
- I also wonder if the AA 787 deal made them wonder how cheap 788s are these days along with the changes to make them share more parts with the larger siblings.
- The only way airbus is involved is if it’s a swap A350s for A321s.
- I wonder if Boeing would make a deal for 50 788s 25 buy / 25 Short term leases until 797s could be delivered. I think they would.

Should be interesting.
 
bigjku
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 2:53 am

DBKissORD wrote:
I have recently crossed the Atlantic on N660UA 1993 3 Class and N672UA 1999 2 Class they were both well maintained. After the Polaris project is complete I see no reason they can’t be in service for 7 more years. As a side note niether flight was full so a much larger aircraft would not be a fit - it was an off day / time so that is relative.

A few thoughts:
- An RFP does not always yield an order.
- I wonder if fuel prices going up have anything to do with this?
- I also wonder if the AA 787 deal made them wonder how cheap 788s are these days along with the changes to make them share more parts with the larger siblings.
- The only way airbus is involved is if it’s a swap A350s for A321s.
- I wonder if Boeing would make a deal for 50 788s 25 buy / 25 Short term leases until 797s could be delivered. I think they would.

Should be interesting.


Agree Boeing would have no issue with leasing 788’s for 7-10 years for near term delivery. I figure they will make good entry points into markets that stick primarily to used aircraft later.

I expect them to make several deals along this line for premium buyers who need to do something now for 767’s but want to buy NMA once it’s out there.
If the price is right the 788 is still the best 767ER replacement out there if you don’t want to grow capacity too much.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 3:38 am

I guess this signals that the 797/MoM will be a somebody.

I foresee a 787 top up order.
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727200
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 3:40 am

Can't see 321's replacing 767; that is just wishful dreaming.
 
1989worstyear
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 3:41 am

Surprising they've put all this work into them if they'll all be gone in less than five years. :confused:
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iahcsr
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 4:05 am

1989worstyear wrote:
Surprising they've put all this work into them if they'll all be gone in less than five years. :confused:

The work has to be put in anyway just to keep the old birds flying. Plus more than a few will be around well beyond five years I’d wager.
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JayinKitsap
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 4:11 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
Fifty is, but it won't/can't be 50 MOMs to replace 767s - United can't wait long enough for delivery of 50. It would also be very risky to take the 767s to end of life hoping the MOM is on time...

Twenty 787s and 30 MOMs, with an option for more MOMs? Sure.


Air Canada did similar with the 7E7 back in '05, got like a dozen 777's and two dozen 787's.

I sense that the MOM is launching shortly, both Boeing and the US airlines need to inform stockholders about capital projects. What better way to get a concrete launch proposal than it being in response to an RFP.
 
1989worstyear
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 4:46 am

iahcsr wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
Surprising they've put all this work into them if they'll all be gone in less than five years. :confused:

The work has to be put in anyway just to keep the old birds flying. Plus more than a few will be around well beyond five years I’d wager.


Hmm... If this was similar to the life extension done on their almost equally-old A320 fleet, couldn't the 763 retirement start in the mid 20's, perhaps in time for the MoM? I heard that the first A320's from 93/94 won't start leaving until the 2030's, so it seems logical (except for the fact the A320 came out in 1988 when aerospace innovation peaked).
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seahawk
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 8:17 am

Considering the fleet planing anything other than a 787 would be a gigantic surprise.
 
BlueSky1976
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 8:20 am

This one is easy to predict: boeing will offer 787-8 at a dumping price, just like they did with 737-700 earlier. United will bite. End of story, unfortunately.
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behramjee
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 8:42 am

UA need to order 16 additional B781s to replace their 16 B764s down the road.

B789 is a better long term replacement option for them for the B763ER offering 38 more seats + few tons more cargo but at least 3-4 hours longer flying range. Their B788s seat just 5 pax more than the B763ERs hence it doesn't cater for demand stimulation growth.

So incremental 16 B781s + 34 B789s should be logically ordered.
 
Eyad89
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 8:48 am

Let’s say this order goes all 787 ( most likely option), how fast can Boeing deliver all of them? Even with 14 frame/month, their backlog is huge, and an order of 50 planes isn’t small.

I guess the only way for A339 to win this is because it can be delivered sooner.
 
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 8:58 am

While I agree it's Boeing's to lose, both OEMs have a problem here. It is true that there are new 767s (or their military variants) rolling off the line. So if UA were to offer Boeing enough money, I'm sure Boeing would be able to bang out 50 763s in a civilian passenger configuration. The trouble is that UA doesn't want the 40yo technology of a 763 when a 787 can offer a ~15-20% reduction in CASM. And no, Boeing isn't hanging GEnX-1b variants under the wing; there isn't enough room and that's an enormous undertaking. Not only that, but the GEnXis already over 10 years old.

And so there's a gap. Both the A333 and the 788 are significantly larger than the 763 and they're a lot more capable. The A321LR is significantly smaller and has a payload disadvantage on flights of over 7-8 hours. (Which is to say that there's a limitation of fish capacity at ranges where the 763 can still be full of fish). So this RFP should be a serious kick in the pants to Boeing for to grant BCA to start offering 797s.
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FatCat
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 9:12 am

Reuters wrote:

PARIS/NEW YORK (Reuters) - United Airlines (UAL.N) is in talks with planemakers Airbus (AIR.PA) and Boeing Co (BA.N) over the purchase of wide-body, long-haul passenger jets to replace a fleet of 50 Boeing 767 aircraft, people familiar with the discussions said on Tuesday.



Reuters' reporters do read Anet Civil Aviation Forum? :rotfl: :rotfl:
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LifelinerOne
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 11:48 am

ikolkyo wrote:

They have zero A330 pilots, it adds a new fleet type which makes them have to do a lot of work on the maintenance end. A330 simulators will need to be ordered and there will need to be new fleet type training for pilots and FAs. Why in the world would any airline, no matter the deal want to have the A338? It's currently orphan aircraft that will have poor leasing terms and resale value. Its either 787 or A321 for this job and I think the 787 has it just like the AA deal.


United is to take delivery of the A350. The A330 and the A350 share a common type rating, meaning creating a larger pilot pool makes United more flexible, so pilot-wise we are not talking about a small subtype.
Also, transition from an Airbus narrowbody to a widebody is quite easy. The A330neo also has the same cabin outfitting options as the A350 (depending on customer wishes ofcourse), so cabin crew can also work on both types. A double simulator (for A330/A350) is also available on the market.

So that leaves maintenance. Not a small issue, but all the other items could be managed quite easily.

Cheers! :wave:
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tphuang
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 12:31 pm

I don’t see how airbus has any chanc here.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 12:55 pm

LifelinerOne wrote:
United is to take delivery of the A350.


'Is to take' describes a future event, one that may not happen with 100% probability. 2022 is a long time away. United has 787 pilots, crew bases, and parts today.
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 1:01 pm

I don't know which way this potential order will go, but I've seen several people indicate the A330 as a possibility because it's cheaper.

I really do not think that is the case any longer, especially for such a blue chip customer.

The 787 price has come down as the program has matured and we recently saw a couple of orders favor the 787 due in part to pricing against the A330 and these weren't what I'd call blue chip customers (think HA). Now again, I don't know which way this RFP will go, but I can tell you that the notion of the A330 being cheaper to purchase than the 787 is likely not the case anymore. Boeing has made great strides in reducing the cost to build and are able to offer very favorable pricing, while still making a profit.

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osupoke07
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Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 1:13 pm

United currently has 35 763 and 16 764. Seat counts for the 763 range from 183 - 214 and the 764 holds 242. United's 788 seats 219 and the 789 seats 252.

I don't see this as being anything other than a 788/789 order to directly replace those frames, especially after AA did practically the same thing earlier this year. Maybe they include a few extra for growth. My guess is they order 30 each of 788/789.
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Channex757
Posts: 1792
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:07 am

Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 1:24 pm

Can we have less of the ordergasmic posting regarding the 797 or whatever it's called this week?

There may be a market for it, although Boeing has not as yet closed the business case. It certainly does NOT have an engine or engines. Without propulsion then where is the possibility of a launch? None of the three big OEMs have anything ready to wear in the cupboard they can hang on to a 797 tomorrow. RR makes noises about Ultrafan and PW may scale the GTF but what does GE have? A CFM scale-up that may or may not work?

There has to be much more certainty about what goes under the wing before any launches by Boeing or RFPs from the likes of United can be paired with the 797. It's still a glider.
 
jayunited
Posts: 1514
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 1:29 pm

727200 wrote:
Can't see 321's replacing 767; that is just wishful dreaming.


Exactly.
I don't see why people keep bringing up the A321LR, that aircraft is not a suitable replacement for UA's 767's because of the missions these aircraft are used on. Of the US3 UA moves the most cargo just yesterday UA released their April 2018 operational report and it shows a 5.7% increase in cargo for the month and a 8.3% increase year over year. United is a passenger airline but we move a lot of cargo 280,503 revenue tons just for the month of April alone. The 763 is a unique aircraft in that most missions to Europe only require a maximum of 6 LD2s of baggage leaving the rest of the aircraft available to cargo and on many flights to and from Europe the belly is full of cargo. The A321LR can not accommodate the amount of cargo that we currently are loading on our 763s that are flying to and from Europe.
Having said that I think this race will come down to the A330 vs the 787, and I think Airbus does has a shot albeit a long shot but they do have one. UA has order the A359 there is some commonality between the A330 and A350 however in my opinion in order for Airbus to win this race they will need to make UA an offer they simply can't refuse kind of like the deal Boeing made to keep the C-series out of UA's fleet. I know Boeing is the favorite here with the 787 but don't discount Airbus because both the A330 and 787 are larger than the 763s they would be replacing. Boeing is the frontrunner but Airbus could surprise us because over the past few months Boeings 787 has won more orders than Airbuses A330, Airbus needs a sales victory against the 787, UA could be that victory but only at the right price.
 
jetero
Posts: 2751
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 2:00 pm

Airlinepilot129 wrote:
I'd hardly call that article a source. The company has said that they are not going to be considering a replacement for both the older 777s and the 767 fleet for some time in the future.


Um, not true.

The presentation shown here is internal, with the 757s and the 763 as the "near-term targets."

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... nt-446322/
 
LifelinerOne
Posts: 1534
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:30 pm

Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 3:36 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
LifelinerOne wrote:
United is to take delivery of the A350.


'Is to take' describes a future event, one that may not happen with 100% probability. 2022 is a long time away. United has 787 pilots, crew bases, and parts today.


People still saying that United is not going to take delivery of their A350s; please remember that they expanded their orders only last September from 35 A350-1000s to 45 A350-900s.

45 A350s is a nice critical mass and adding the A330 would even help to increase this and create a more flexible crew utilization.

I think Airbus will price the A330 very competitive for this RFP, they need to if they want to keep the A330 line rolling for a while longer and recoup their investment in the A330neo.

In my opinion, Airbus does have a shot at this order, but I think this is a 50/50 probability.

Cheers! :wave:
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
flyguy84
Posts: 467
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:26 pm

Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 3:54 pm

For those saying that crew training is a major reason they won’t buy the 330. Be reminded the 330/350 have a common type rating.

www.airbus.com/newsroom/news/en/2014/10 ... ining.html
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 8073
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: UA RFQ now ongoing for 767 replacement?

Wed May 09, 2018 4:02 pm

Having a common type rating doesn’t mean the airline will automatically use the same crew as the A350 (DL, for example, doesn’t). Also UA doesn’t have A350s in the fleet now, they won’t be on property until 2022. So UA would still have to develop a A330 training program.

And the fact that A320->A330 training is easier is meaningless for an airline like UA. Positions will be filled based on who has to be trained and seniority. Keep in mind that the new planes will be displacing the 767 fleet and pilots...not the A320 fleet. Pilots bid for spots on planes, UA doesn’t just say you go here and these guys will get promoted to fly these.

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