UAL, DAL & AA, who is # 1, 2 & 3 across the Atlantic?

Max Q · Tue May 08, 2018 6:13 am

Curious about which US major dominates
on the Atlantic now

grbauc · Tue May 08, 2018 6:33 am

DL is my Guess with UA right next to them and AA in last. My guess is including there JV and such.

ericm2031 · Tue May 08, 2018 6:38 am

With or without their alliance partners?

When combined with their partners I would make it UA, AA, and then DL.

panamair · Tue May 08, 2018 8:14 am

For full year 2017 Atlantic traffic and capacity

Traffic (RPM)
DL 41,641,403,
UA 36,220,795
AA 29,338,000

Capacity (ASM)
DL 49,398,455
UA 47,297,821
AA 38,112,000

Load factor (RPM/ASM)
DL 84.3%
UA 76.6%
AA 77.0%

Geoff1947 · Tue May 08, 2018 10:07 am

This might help

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news ... tatistics/

Also shows that amongst the US3, Delta leads from United from American.

Geoff

77H · Tue May 08, 2018 10:12 am

panamair wrote:
For full year 2017 Atlantic traffic and capacity

Traffic (RPM)
DL 41,641,403,
UA 36,220,795
AA 29,338,000

Capacity (ASM)
DL 49,398,455
UA 47,297,821
AA 38,112,000

Load factor (RPM/ASM)
DL 84.3%
UA 76.6%
AA 77.0%

That’s a lot of empty planes for UA and DL. I wonder what drove the significantly lower LFs relative to DL?

77H

Kashmon · Tue May 08, 2018 10:21 am

AA would be the smallest, they can't handle international markets, they are about to lose their last bastion in South America as well.

dochawk2 · Tue May 08, 2018 10:55 am

77H wrote:
panamair wrote:
For full year 2017 Atlantic traffic and capacity

Traffic (RPM)
DL 41,641,403,
UA 36,220,795
AA 29,338,000

Capacity (ASM)
DL 49,398,455
UA 47,297,821
AA 38,112,000

Load factor (RPM/ASM)
DL 84.3%
UA 76.6%
AA 77.0%

That’s a lot of empty planes for UA and DL. I wonder what drove the significantly lower LFs relative to DL?

77H

DL is 84.2% full
UA is 76.6% full
AA is 77% full

All US carriers are over 75% full. Delta is nearly 85% full! Doesn’t look too bad to me.

77H · Tue May 08, 2018 11:09 am

dochawk2 wrote:
77H wrote:
panamair wrote:
For full year 2017 Atlantic traffic and capacity

Traffic (RPM)
DL 41,641,403,
UA 36,220,795
AA 29,338,000

Capacity (ASM)
DL 49,398,455
UA 47,297,821
AA 38,112,000

Load factor (RPM/ASM)
DL 84.3%
UA 76.6%
AA 77.0%

That’s a lot of empty planes for UA and DL. I wonder what drove the significantly lower LFs relative to DL?

77H

DL is 84.2% full
UA is 76.6% full
AA is 77% full

All US carriers are over 75% full. Delta is nearly 85% full! Doesn’t look too bad to me.

Apologies, I should have said “empty seats” rather than planes. While cumulatively +75% LF is not inherently anything to scoff at there is a large disparity between UA/AA and DL. I was just wondering what might be the cause. Though I should know better than to ask that sort of question here as we’re likely to see a lot of “Because DL is the best airline to ever grace the sky and AA and UA are so terrible” responses.

77H

dochawk2 · Tue May 08, 2018 11:18 am

77H wrote:
dochawk2 wrote:
77H wrote:

That’s a lot of empty planes for UA and DL. I wonder what drove the significantly lower LFs relative to DL?

77H

DL is 84.2% full
UA is 76.6% full
AA is 77% full

All US carriers are over 75% full. Delta is nearly 85% full! Doesn’t look too bad to me.

Apologies, I should have said “empty seats” rather than planes. While cumulatively +75% LF is not inherently anything to scoff at there is a large disparity between UA/AA and DL. I was just wondering what might be the cause. Though I should know better than to ask that sort of question here as we’re likely to see a lot of “Because DL is the best airline to ever grace the sky and AA and UA are so terrible” responses.

77H

I suppose you could say 1 out of ever 5 planes is empty! Haha. But you are correct about DL having a substantial lead. I’m willing to bet, but I certainly don’t know, that it has to do with location of hubs and routing of planes is more “natural” for pax with the Delta network being so focused on the density of the US population.

MIflyer12 · Tue May 08, 2018 12:18 pm

Max Q wrote:
Curious about which US major dominates
on the Atlantic now

In addition to the data provided by panamair, DL/AA/UA report traffic segmented by domestic/Latin/Atlantic/Pacific in their monthly/quarterly traffic releases or operational reports.

jfklganyc · Tue May 08, 2018 12:24 pm

Delta runs away with it.

Their dual JFK/ATL gateways plus service from other hubs plus one offs from spokes to partner Euro hubs does them well.

Looks like 30 years later, that Pan Am purchase did them well

On a side note, as a Y passenger (which most of us are) Delta is far superior in product and service.

American tries, but that 767 looked like something out of a time warp.

panamair · Tue May 08, 2018 12:37 pm

77H wrote:
Apologies, I should have said “empty seats” rather than planes. While cumulatively +75% LF is not inherently anything to scoff at there is a large disparity between UA/AA and DL. I was just wondering what might be the cause.
77H

One contributing factor may be that DL manages capacity much closer to traffic in the highly seasonal transatlantic market. For example, if you take a look at just Q1 (the weakest quarter for Atlantic), DL actually offers even LESS capacity than UA, even though it hauls more traffic across the Atlantic during this period. During the stronger Q2 and Q3, DL then pumps a lot more capacity into the Atlantic than others...

Q1 2018:
ASM (capacity)
UA: 9,716,386
DL: 9,080,256

RPM (traffic)
DL: 7,176,523
UA: 7,094,089

Q1 2017:
ASM (capacity)
UA: 9,428,024
DL: 8,822,143

RPM (traffic)
DL: 6,791,565
UA: 6,392,642

ual763 · Tue May 08, 2018 12:56 pm

Atlantic = 1.) DL
2.) UA
3.) AA
Pacific = 1.) UA
2.) AA
3.) DL

panamair · Tue May 08, 2018 1:05 pm

ual763 wrote:
Pacific = 1.) UA
2.) AA
3.) DL

No, not really. For full year 2017:

ASM (capacity)
UA: 42,831,318
DL: 23,975,585
AA: 18,817,000

RPM (traffic)
UA: 33,890,639
DL: 20,741,317
AA: 15,421,000

Load factor:
UA: 79.1%
DL: 86.5%
AA: 82%

captaink · Tue May 08, 2018 1:32 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Delta runs away with it.
American tries, but that 767 looked like something out of a time warp.

As a loyal AA customer, unless you get a 777-300 and the updated -200 I am don't think they try very hard transatlantic. These days, I don't think AA is trying very hard at all, especially in economy.

DeSpringbokke · Tue May 08, 2018 2:29 pm

ual763 wrote:
Atlantic = 1.) DL
2.) UA
3.) AA
Pacific = 1.) UA
2.) AA
3.) DL

Not accurate. DL is still ahead of AA in the Pacific despite all the hoopla with their winding down of NRT and AA’s expansion since 2011. AA of course is still the lead dog in Latin America. I think DL is slightly ahead of UA in Latin America but it could be the other way around.

xjetflyer2001 · Tue May 08, 2018 3:00 pm

I see the Atlantic has been covered pretty well and the Pacific has been hinted on, but could anyone put a list of all regions of the world, who is #1,2,&3 of the big US3 or 4 if WN beats in anything, all on one comment?

I would do it myself, but I for one don't know where to find all of that information and I know there are a lot of you on here who have quicker access and better at it than me, much appreciated.

Swadian · Tue May 08, 2018 3:01 pm

panamair wrote:
ual763 wrote:
Pacific = 1.) UA
2.) AA
3.) DL

No, not really. For full year 2017:

ASM (capacity)
UA: 42,831,318
DL: 23,975,585
AA: 18,817,000

RPM (traffic)
UA: 33,890,639
DL: 20,741,317
AA: 15,421,000

Load factor:
UA: 79.1%
DL: 86.5%
AA: 82%

What about Latin America?

captaink wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Delta runs away with it.
American tries, but that 767 looked like something out of a time warp.

As a loyal AA customer, unless you get a 777-300 and the updated -200 I am don't think they try very hard transatlantic. These days, I don't think AA is trying very hard at all, especially in economy.

Well, they did update all of the 777-200ER and the 787 and A330 are not bad. The 767 is about to be retired anyway. Of course there's the 757 with no PTVs anywhere.

ikolkyo · Tue May 08, 2018 3:09 pm

Swadian wrote:
panamair wrote:
ual763 wrote:
Pacific = 1.) UA
2.) AA
3.) DL

No, not really. For full year 2017:

ASM (capacity)
UA: 42,831,318
DL: 23,975,585
AA: 18,817,000

RPM (traffic)
UA: 33,890,639
DL: 20,741,317
AA: 15,421,000

Load factor:
UA: 79.1%
DL: 86.5%
AA: 82%

What about Latin America?

captaink wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Delta runs away with it.
American tries, but that 767 looked like something out of a time warp.

As a loyal AA customer, unless you get a 777-300 and the updated -200 I am don't think they try very hard transatlantic. These days, I don't think AA is trying very hard at all, especially in economy.

Well, they did update all of the 777-200ER and the 787 and A330 are not bad. The 767 is about to be retired anyway. Of course there's the 757 with no PTVs anywhere.

All the 77Es are updated already? I don’t think that is the case. AA really needs to get those 787s in so those tired 763s can take a seat.

deltalaw · Tue May 08, 2018 3:29 pm

Should be interesting to see how the Pacific numbers change with DL retiring the 744 and adding the 359. The addition of ATL-PVG/ICN should help a bit, but I know the 359 certainly has less seats than the retired queen.

SESGDL · Tue May 08, 2018 3:39 pm

deltalaw wrote:
Should be interesting to see how the Pacific numbers change with DL retiring the 744 and adding the 359. The addition of ATL-PVG/ICN should help a bit, but I know the 359 certainly has less seats than the retired queen.

YTD (April 2018), DL's Pacific RPMs are down just 1.0% on a 2.3% capacity decrease, so the change has not been significant. RPMs should be up year-over-year soon as ATL-ICN and ATL-PVG will add a significant amount to the overall network.

Jeremy

xdlx · Tue May 08, 2018 3:46 pm

77H wrote:
panamair wrote:
For full year 2017 Atlantic traffic and capacity

Traffic (RPM)
DL 41,641,403,
UA 36,220,795
AA 29,338,000

Capacity (ASM)
DL 49,398,455
UA 47,297,821
AA 38,112,000

Load factor (RPM/ASM)
DL 84.3%
UA 76.6%
AA 77.0%

Just to refresh the fuzzy math 84% is 8 out of every 10 for DL.
77% is 7 out of 10 seats on UA. Perhaps a FEW empty seats on every jet but not LOT of EMPTY PLANES.

That’s a lot of empty planes for UA and DL. I wonder what drove the significantly lower LFs relative to DL?

77H

panamair · Tue May 08, 2018 4:11 pm

xjetflyer2001 wrote:
I see the Atlantic has been covered pretty well and the Pacific has been hinted on, but could anyone put a list of all regions of the world, who is #1,2,&3 of the big US3 or 4 if WN beats in anything, all on one comment?
.

Latin America Full Year 2017

RPM (traffic)
AA: 29,725,000
UA: 21,881,565
DL: 20,407,827

ASM (capacity)
AA: 37,702,000
UA: 26,408,188
DL: 23,535,460

ALL INTERNATIONAL (Pacific+Atlantic+LatAm) Full Year 2017

RPM (traffic)
UA: 91,992,999
DL: 82,790,546
AA: 74,484,000

ASM (capacity)
UA: 116,537,327
DL: 96,909,500
AA: 94,631,000

Domestic US (including Mainline and Regionals) Full Year 2017

RPM (traffic)
AA: 151,862,000
DL: 134,921,847
WN: 129,041,420
UA: 124,267,502

ASM (capacity)
AA: 181,862,000
DL: 157,415,614
WN: 153,811,072
UA: 145,848,600

captaink · Tue May 08, 2018 4:35 pm

Well, they did update all of the 777-200ER and the 787 and A330 are not bad. The 767 is about to be retired anyway. Of course there's the 757 with no PTVs anywhere.

Indeed, the 767 is a problem. I try to avoid them. I did BCN - JFK not too long ago and I was afraid it was going to be the 767 but they now use the 772 on that route. Now, I am working on avoiding the 767 on the MIA/DFW route.

I flew on the A330-300 PHL/FCO, it wasn't bad but it is an old creaky bird with a useless PTV (generally unresponsive). I heard the -200s are newer and in better shape.

Thing is, I don't mind old planes, but with an updated interior, specifically new overhead bins (see premium cabins on the 763) and IFE on long haul flights.

Antarius · Tue May 08, 2018 4:39 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Swadian wrote:
panamair wrote:

No, not really. For full year 2017:

ASM (capacity)
UA: 42,831,318
DL: 23,975,585
AA: 18,817,000

RPM (traffic)
UA: 33,890,639
DL: 20,741,317
AA: 15,421,000

Load factor:
UA: 79.1%
DL: 86.5%
AA: 82%

What about Latin America?

captaink wrote:

As a loyal AA customer, unless you get a 777-300 and the updated -200 I am don't think they try very hard transatlantic. These days, I don't think AA is trying very hard at all, especially in economy.

Well, they did update all of the 777-200ER and the 787 and A330 are not bad. The 767 is about to be retired anyway. Of course there's the 757 with no PTVs anywhere.

All the 77Es are updated already? I don’t think that is the case. AA really needs to get those 787s in so those tired 763s can take a seat.

Yup. All 777-200 have lay flat seats. They are a mix of the Zodiac seats and the BE Super Diamonds though.

Other than the 767s which have MX issues way more often than I can count, IMO, AA has the best overall hard product of the US3. All aisle access up front on all widebodies.

xjetflyer2001 · Tue May 08, 2018 4:40 pm

panamair wrote:
xjetflyer2001 wrote:
I see the Atlantic has been covered pretty well and the Pacific has been hinted on, but could anyone put a list of all regions of the world, who is #1,2,&3 of the big US3 or 4 if WN beats in anything, all on one comment?
.

Latin America Full Year 2017

RPM (traffic)
AA: 29,725,000
UA: 21,881,565
DL: 20,407,827

ASM (capacity)
AA: 37,702,000
UA: 26,408,188
DL: 23,535,460

ALL INTERNATIONAL (Pacific+Atlantic+LatAm) Full Year 2017

RPM (traffic)
UA: 91,992,999
DL: 82,790,546
AA: 74,484,000

ASM (capacity)
UA: 116,537,327
DL: 96,909,500
AA: 94,631,000

Domestic US (including Mainline and Regionals) Full Year 2017

RPM (traffic)
AA: 151,862,000
DL: 134,921,847
WN: 129,041,420
UA: 124,267,502

ASM (capacity)
AA: 181,862,000
DL: 157,415,614
WN: 153,811,072
UA: 145,848,600

Thanks panamair for taking the time to find this and post it

tphuang · Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Well aa hands off all its flying duties to ba so it’s kind of an unfair comparison here.

MSPNWA · Tue May 08, 2018 5:04 pm

77H wrote:
That’s a lot of empty planes for UA and DL. I wonder what drove the significantly lower LFs relative to DL?

77H

Three big factors that tie together are what I see being mostly responsible:

1) DL runs a significant percentage of TATL hub-to-hub flying to their JV hubs in AMS and CDG. Secondary TATL markets are lightly served in general.
2) DL's TATL-aligned fortress hubs and the general limited competition in their connecting networks allows a constriction of capacity to match demand and also often forces demand into that hub-to-hub network.
3) DL is a more seasonal TATL airline, only flying many secondary markets in peak season.

jubguy3 · Tue May 08, 2018 5:24 pm

tphuang wrote:
Well aa hands off all its flying duties to ba so it’s kind of an unfair comparison here.

SkyTeam still has the largest share of European traffic

qcpilotxf · Tue May 08, 2018 6:40 pm

panamair wrote:
xjetflyer2001 wrote:
I see the Atlantic has been covered pretty well and the Pacific has been hinted on, but could anyone put a list of all regions of the world, who is #1,2,&3 of the big US3 or 4 if WN beats in anything, all on one comment?
.

Latin America Full Year 2017

RPM (traffic)
AA: 29,725,000
UA: 21,881,565
DL: 20,407,827

ASM (capacity)
AA: 37,702,000
UA: 26,408,188
DL: 23,535,460

ALL INTERNATIONAL (Pacific+Atlantic+LatAm) Full Year 2017

RPM (traffic)
UA: 91,992,999
DL: 82,790,546
AA: 74,484,000

ASM (capacity)
UA: 116,537,327
DL: 96,909,500
AA: 94,631,000

Domestic US (including Mainline and Regionals) Full Year 2017

RPM (traffic)
AA: 151,862,000
DL: 134,921,847
WN: 129,041,420
UA: 124,267,502

ASM (capacity)
AA: 181,862,000
DL: 157,415,614
WN: 153,811,072
UA: 145,848,600

I'm curious to see this numbers across the JVs and not just the individual airlines since metal neutral can skew the "view" on how many passengers are actually moving.

flyingclrs727 · Tue May 08, 2018 6:53 pm

77H wrote:
panamair wrote:
For full year 2017 Atlantic traffic and capacity

Traffic (RPM)
DL 41,641,403,
UA 36,220,795
AA 29,338,000

Capacity (ASM)
DL 49,398,455
UA 47,297,821
AA 38,112,000

Load factor (RPM/ASM)
DL 84.3%
UA 76.6%
AA 77.0%

That’s a lot of empty planes for UA and DL. I wonder what drove the significantly lower LFs relative to DL?

77H

How many of the partners' aircraft are A380's?

Antarius · Tue May 08, 2018 6:57 pm

jubguy3 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Well aa hands off all its flying duties to ba so it’s kind of an unfair comparison here.

SkyTeam still has the largest share of European traffic

Sure, but at least this way we are comparing apples to apples.

The results may end up the same, but the data set is complete when we include JVs.

Sightseer · Tue May 08, 2018 7:09 pm

Antarius wrote:
Other than the 767s which have MX issues way more often than I can count, IMO, AA has the best overall hard product of the US3. All aisle access up front on all widebodies.

DL has had that for a few years now, non-ER 763s aside. And while opinions are subjective, I can understand why AA might be one's last choice among the US3 for long-haul Y, given the odds of ending up on a 10-abreast 777, 9-abreast 787, or clapped-out 767.

Flighty · Tue May 08, 2018 9:14 pm

Well reasoned post MSPNWA. Delta's partner, AFKL, may be better positioned for hubbing, with hubs in AMS and CDG. And you could argue Delta's hubs are more conducive to transfer passengers than UA or AA's. This creates a need for more hub-hub flying for 1 stop passengers, some of whom are high yield, your Richmond-CDG type of passenger. But a lot of it is low yield filler. When you compare hub/hub to hub/spoke, the hub/hub should have more high yield pax (capturing both directions of premier 1-stops) and more, smoother low yield filler traffic can be found to pad the load factor. Hub/spoke is a different business model with greater load factor volatility, because it's not as connective. But hub/spoke is still the best move assuming you are not competing against hub/hub. So for example, AA PHL-LHR is hub-hub, and DL DTW-LHR would be a little bit lower load factor probably. Guess this is all obvious.

mcogator · Tue May 08, 2018 10:23 pm

Antarius wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Swadian wrote:

What about Latin America?

Well, they did update all of the 777-200ER and the 787 and A330 are not bad. The 767 is about to be retired anyway. Of course there's the 757 with no PTVs anywhere.

All the 77Es are updated already? I don’t think that is the case. AA really needs to get those 787s in so those tired 763s can take a seat.

Yup. All 777-200 have lay flat seats. They are a mix of the Zodiac seats and the BE Super Diamonds though.

Other than the 767s which have MX issues way more often than I can count, IMO, AA has the best overall hard product of the US3. All aisle access up front on all widebodies.

Aside from their domestic 763, does not DL offer the same on their international widebodies?

captaink · Tue May 08, 2018 11:10 pm

DL has had that for a few years now, non-ER 763s aside. And while opinions are subjective, I can understand why AA might be one's last choice among the US3 for long-haul Y, given the odds of ending up on a 10-abreast 777, 9-abreast 787, or clapped-out 767.

When the main cabin in that old creaky "but roomy" A333 ex PHL doesn't seem to bad...

727200 · Tue May 08, 2018 11:22 pm

I had no idea that UA was so big across the Pacific; their ASM's are bigger than DL and AA combined. As for Atlantic, Q1 2018, UA and DL are pretty close. Looks like DL let slip the PA purchase over time in addition to the NW merger. They should be eons ahead of their competitors.

Antarius · Tue May 08, 2018 11:24 pm

mcogator wrote:
Antarius wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:

All the 77Es are updated already? I don’t think that is the case. AA really needs to get those 787s in so those tired 763s can take a seat.

Yup. All 777-200 have lay flat seats. They are a mix of the Zodiac seats and the BE Super Diamonds though.

Other than the 767s which have MX issues way more often than I can count, IMO, AA has the best overall hard product of the US3. All aisle access up front on all widebodies.

Aside from their domestic 763, does not DL offer the same on their international widebodies?

They do.

I guess I meant to say 1. They have all aisle access (which you are correct DL has as well). 2. I think AA has a better hard product overall (not just because of the aisle access)

tphuang · Tue May 08, 2018 11:39 pm

For j passengers at least, aa has the best product. Also out of jfk, the aa flagship lounge are nice. The bridge is probably the best lounge space in jfk. On the other hand, I would hate to be stuck with ba going across the pond.

DeSpringbokke · Wed May 09, 2018 12:59 am

727200 wrote:
I had no idea that UA was so big across the Pacific; their ASM's are bigger than DL and AA combined. As for Atlantic, Q1 2018, UA and DL are pretty close. Looks like DL let slip the PA purchase over time in addition to the NW merger. They should be eons ahead of their competitors.

Uh, no, Delta is far more balanced on seasonality. Just look at UA's and DL's load factors. There is a rather large gap between UA and DL. Besides that's not the main point of the story. What really matters is the revenue margins TATL. Delta is significantly ahead of UA here. Its UA that has shrunk over the past decade compared to DL.

bfitzflyer · Wed May 09, 2018 1:02 am

I would love to see Transpacific stats for NW vs UA back in say the 90's. I think it was relatively close then with AA almost nonexistent. DL really has fallen significantly if you count all the NRT onward routes. Will be interesting to see them try to build off of Korean and China Eastern to see what they can do....

MIflyer12 · Wed May 09, 2018 1:44 am

727200 wrote:
I had no idea that UA was so big across the Pacific; their ASM's are bigger than DL and AA combined. As for Atlantic, Q1 2018, UA and DL are pretty close. Looks like DL let slip the PA purchase over time in addition to the NW merger. They should be eons ahead of their competitors.

Funny, that. Delta's 1Q18 GAAP profits were more than UA and AA combined. Delta deliberately shrank the low-RASM TPAC network. You can go back ~ten years to the first post-merger investor presentations that remarked on poor revenue premiums TPAC.

UA is close to DL on TATL because of the CO Newark TATL hub.

727200 · Wed May 09, 2018 3:45 am

Doesn't matter if UA hub is in the middle of the ocean. DL used to have significant jump on everyone with purchase of PA and then the NW merger, but that is not the case now. As for Pacific DL was late to the party in shrinking NRT and is late again on Chinese routes. That is why they are shrinking in Orient and when you only have a small foot print to your competitors your chances of catching them are relatively small.

jfern022 · Wed May 09, 2018 4:17 am

727200 wrote:
Doesn't matter if UA hub is in the middle of the ocean. DL used to have significant jump on everyone with purchase of PA and then the NW merger, but that is not the case now. As for Pacific DL was late to the party in shrinking NRT and is late again on Chinese routes. That is why they are shrinking in Orient and when you only have a small foot print to your competitors your chances of catching them are relatively small.

None of anything you said makes any sense.

grbauc · Wed May 09, 2018 4:25 am

panamair wrote:
For full year 2017 Atlantic traffic and capacity

Traffic (RPM)
DL 41,641,403,
UA 36,220,795
AA 29,338,000

Capacity (ASM)
DL 49,398,455
UA 47,297,821
AA 38,112,000

Load factor (RPM/ASM)
DL 84.3%
UA 76.6%
AA 77.0%

Thanks

laca773 · Thu May 10, 2018 4:28 am

Antarius wrote:
mcogator wrote:
Antarius wrote:

Yup. All 777-200 have lay flat seats. They are a mix of the Zodiac seats and the BE Super Diamonds though.

Other than the 767s which have MX issues way more often than I can count, IMO, AA has the best overall hard product of the US3. All aisle access up front on all widebodies.

Aside from their domestic 763, does not DL offer the same on their international widebodies?

They do.

I guess I meant to say 1. They have all aisle access (which you are correct DL has as well). 2. I think AA has a better hard product overall (not just because of the aisle access)

Perhaps AA does have a newer seat in J, but DL was the first of the US 3 to offer direct aisle access and has done so for years. I appreciate your viewpoint, but AA still does fly quite a few 76Ws that offer a very tired product in the main cabin in regards to their hard product.

Antarius · Thu May 10, 2018 4:40 am

laca773 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
mcogator wrote:
Aside from their domestic 763, does not DL offer the same on their international widebodies?

They do.

I guess I meant to say 1. They have all aisle access (which you are correct DL has as well). 2. I think AA has a better hard product overall (not just because of the aisle access)

Perhaps AA does have a newer seat in J, but DL was the first of the US 3 to offer direct aisle access and has done so for years. I appreciate your viewpoint, but AA still does fly quite a few 76Ws that offer a very tired product in the main cabin in regards to their hard product.

I dont disagree. I feel that way about AA in J/F. AA Y has lots to be desired, 752 and 763 Y is appalling.

slcdeltarumd11 · Thu May 10, 2018 5:02 am

I think AA moving flights ie abandoning JFK o&d and moving them to PHL for connections will help their European flights.

I think a few of those JFK flights had some real low load factor times. Won't move them in order but I think they are going to improve trans Atlantic by the move.

VC10er · Thu May 10, 2018 9:36 am

Over the past few years has UA seen significant TATL growth from EWR? The advertising for United at EWR is inescapable- with a brand new slew of ads just launched. Advertising works when it is good. I’m assuming the campaign for UA for EWR in the NYC Metropolitan Area is indeed working because they seem to be increasing their ad spend.
I’m just curious if the growth for them at EWR is rising?
Once the lounges are open and the ac are renovated I would presume even more growth and higher loads.

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