Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
enilria wrote:*DL CVG-XNA AUG 0.7>0.3 OCT 0.7>0 NOV 0.7>0 JAN 0.7>0
enilria wrote:DL ATL-LIT SEP 6>7 OCT 6>7 NOV 6>7 DEC 6>7 JAN 6>7
enilria wrote:
Took them a couple of weeks, but AUS-OKC is back (?)
VC AUS-OKC JUN 0>0.8 JUL 0>0.9 AUG 0>0.9 SEP 0>0.8 OCT 0>0.9
jb1087xna wrote:Thanks as always!!enilria wrote:*DL CVG-XNA AUG 0.7>0.3 OCT 0.7>0 NOV 0.7>0 JAN 0.7>0
Not shocked. Figured the writing was on the wall when DL down-gauged it to a CRJ last month and made it a "normal" round trip instead of pivoting to ATL/MSP to allow for a morning arrival from CVG and evening departure from XNA. The WM/P&G traffic must not be worth it any longer. And I'd much rather have DL maintain or strengthen capacity from XNA to other hubs versus stringing this along.enilria wrote:DL ATL-LIT SEP 6>7 OCT 6>7 NOV 6>7 DEC 6>7 JAN 6>7
Looks like an extension of the current schedule. Color me jealous that XNA can't draw a fraction of that mainline capacity.
klm617 wrote:They won’t, just like they won’t add BGR or ANC back.jb1087xna wrote:Thanks as always!!enilria wrote:*DL CVG-XNA AUG 0.7>0.3 OCT 0.7>0 NOV 0.7>0 JAN 0.7>0
Not shocked. Figured the writing was on the wall when DL down-gauged it to a CRJ last month and made it a "normal" round trip instead of pivoting to ATL/MSP to allow for a morning arrival from CVG and evening departure from XNA. The WM/P&G traffic must not be worth it any longer. And I'd much rather have DL maintain or strengthen capacity from XNA to other hubs versus stringing this along.enilria wrote:DL ATL-LIT SEP 6>7 OCT 6>7 NOV 6>7 DEC 6>7 JAN 6>7
Looks like an extension of the current schedule. Color me jealous that XNA can't draw a fraction of that mainline capacity.
Hopefully with XNA-CVG being dropped they will add back XNA-DTW
jb1087xna wrote:enilria wrote:*DL CVG-XNA AUG 0.7>0.3 OCT 0.7>0 NOV 0.7>0 JAN 0.7>0
Not shocked. Figured the writing was on the wall when DL down-gauged it to a CRJ last month and made it a "normal" round trip instead of pivoting to ATL/MSP to allow for a morning arrival from CVG and evening departure from XNA. The WM/P&G traffic must not be worth it any longer. And I'd much rather have DL maintain or strengthen capacity from XNA to other hubs versus stringing this along.
cvgComair wrote:jb1087xna wrote:enilria wrote:*DL CVG-XNA AUG 0.7>0.3 OCT 0.7>0 NOV 0.7>0 JAN 0.7>0
Not shocked. Figured the writing was on the wall when DL down-gauged it to a CRJ last month and made it a "normal" round trip instead of pivoting to ATL/MSP to allow for a morning arrival from CVG and evening departure from XNA. The WM/P&G traffic must not be worth it any longer. And I'd much rather have DL maintain or strengthen capacity from XNA to other hubs versus stringing this along.
Yep, the CRJ-700 was too much plane and the route need the AM departure/PM return in order to work. They have been trying many different schedule combinations lately in attempt to save the route, but it just didn't work out. I have heard that most of the P&G pax have been taking AA/UA through ORD instead of DL's new timing. It and MEM were a lot alike, both were casualties of the CRJ-200 reductions. BNA is also suffering as well, so I would not be surprised to see that route go as well. It makes sense for DL to use the CRJ-700/CRJ-900's on more profitable routes like they did with CVG-AUS and I would imagine routes such as CVG-SAT/JAX/MSY will come in replacement.
CVG-BNA/MEM/XNA seem like great routes for OneJet/Ultimate Air Shuttle to pick up IMO. P&G and Kroger were pretty annoyed with Delta over the dropping of CVG-MEM, I know that both airports were working on getting the route back, however, I think that getting J1/UE would be a much more sustainable option.
enilria wrote:This seems like a significant cutback. Probably creating spares to fix operational problems.
B6 BOS-BWI JUL 6>5 AUG 6>5
B6 BOS-SAN JUL 3>2 AUG 3>2
enilria wrote:DL CVG-BWI NOV 1.7>3
WaywardMemphian wrote:So Delta gives up the Proctor and Gamble/Walmart route (xna/cvg) I think the relationship between the two was over 10 billion last year. So that's MEM and XNA cut from CVG.
cvgComair wrote:enilria wrote:DL CVG-BWI NOV 1.7>3
It is good to see them keeping up the high frequency even in the offseason. I am surprised they have managed to hold on this well to the route with WN, but it seems demand for both carriers is growing. Hopefully we see some larger RJ's on this route next spring/summer.
cvgComair wrote:jb1087xna wrote:enilria wrote:*DL CVG-XNA AUG 0.7>0.3 OCT 0.7>0 NOV 0.7>0 JAN 0.7>0
Not shocked. Figured the writing was on the wall when DL down-gauged it to a CRJ last month and made it a "normal" round trip instead of pivoting to ATL/MSP to allow for a morning arrival from CVG and evening departure from XNA. The WM/P&G traffic must not be worth it any longer. And I'd much rather have DL maintain or strengthen capacity from XNA to other hubs versus stringing this along.
Yep, the CRJ-700 was too much plane and the route need the AM departure/PM return in order to work. They have been trying many different schedule combinations lately in attempt to save the route, but it just didn't work out. I have heard that most of the P&G pax have been taking AA/UA through ORD instead of DL's new timing. It and MEM were a lot alike, both were casualties of the CRJ-200 reductions. BNA is also suffering as well, so I would not be surprised to see that route go as well. It makes sense for DL to use the CRJ-700/CRJ-900's on more profitable routes like they did with CVG-AUS and I would imagine routes such as CVG-SAT/JAX/MSY will come in replacement.
CVG-BNA/MEM/XNA seem like great routes for OneJet/Ultimate Air Shuttle to pick up IMO. P&G and Kroger were pretty annoyed with Delta over the dropping of CVG-MEM, I know that both airports were working on getting the route back, however, I think that getting J1/UE would be a much more sustainable option.
cvgComair wrote:WaywardMemphian wrote:So Delta gives up the Proctor and Gamble/Walmart route (xna/cvg) I think the relationship between the two was over 10 billion last year. So that's MEM and XNA cut from CVG.
I have heard that P&G (and some other Cincinnati companies) are very annoyed with Delta at the moment. This is centered around DL dropping regional routes such as CVG-PIT/GRR/RIC/MSN/MEM/XNA that cannot be flown easily on other carriers and choosing to start IND-CDG instead of a CVG-AMS or LHR flight. While DL has been trying to grow at CVG, I think the regional hole is something that the local companies really want to fix. I have to wonder if these companies might be or will be giving incentives to OneJet/Ultimate Air Shuttle to grow Cincinnati's regional network, much like the PIT business community did.
777Mech wrote:cvgComair wrote:WaywardMemphian wrote:So Delta gives up the Proctor and Gamble/Walmart route (xna/cvg) I think the relationship between the two was over 10 billion last year. So that's MEM and XNA cut from CVG.
I have heard that P&G (and some other Cincinnati companies) are very annoyed with Delta at the moment. This is centered around DL dropping regional routes such as CVG-PIT/GRR/RIC/MSN/MEM/XNA that cannot be flown easily on other carriers and choosing to start IND-CDG instead of a CVG-AMS or LHR flight. While DL has been trying to grow at CVG, I think the regional hole is something that the local companies really want to fix. I have to wonder if these companies might be or will be giving incentives to OneJet/Ultimate Air Shuttle to grow Cincinnati's regional network, much like the PIT business community did.
If they would put the butts in the seats on the services that were offered before the cut backs, WM/P&G would still have the service levels they want. It's that simple.
klm617 wrote:777Mech wrote:cvgComair wrote:I have heard that P&G (and some other Cincinnati companies) are very annoyed with Delta at the moment. This is centered around DL dropping regional routes such as CVG-PIT/GRR/RIC/MSN/MEM/XNA that cannot be flown easily on other carriers and choosing to start IND-CDG instead of a CVG-AMS or LHR flight. While DL has been trying to grow at CVG, I think the regional hole is something that the local companies really want to fix. I have to wonder if these companies might be or will be giving incentives to OneJet/Ultimate Air Shuttle to grow Cincinnati's regional network, much like the PIT business community did.
If they would put the butts in the seats on the services that were offered before the cut backs, WM/P&G would still have the service levels they want. It's that simple.
c'mon this is all about wanting these folks to connect in ATL rather than offering a nonstop. When you have one flight a day on an rj what kind of flexibility is that when there are multiple dailies to chose when routing over ATL.
hiflyeras wrote:Lots of UA cuts in Nov for DEN. Is this an annual, seasonal reduction?
SumChristianus wrote:klm617 wrote:777Mech wrote:
If they would put the butts in the seats on the services that were offered before the cut backs, WM/P&G would still have the service levels they want. It's that simple.
c'mon this is all about wanting these folks to connect in ATL rather than offering a nonstop. When you have one flight a day on an rj what kind of flexibility is that when there are multiple dailies to chose when routing over ATL.
So people freely choose the better option, an ATL connection for them to get to XNA.....a nonstop is an option, and its great to have, but here you seem to be saying that CVG-ATL-XNA is a better option for CVG-XNA passengers. Is that what you mean?
How about DTW-XNA? I'm not sure about the buisness ties, but it might do at least somewhat better than CVG with its greater coverage of the northeast and Europe.
klm617 wrote:SumChristianus wrote:klm617 wrote:
c'mon this is all about wanting these folks to connect in ATL rather than offering a nonstop. When you have one flight a day on an rj what kind of flexibility is that when there are multiple dailies to chose when routing over ATL.
So people freely choose the better option, an ATL connection for them to get to XNA.....a nonstop is an option, and its great to have, but here you seem to be saying that CVG-ATL-XNA is a better option for CVG-XNA passengers. Is that what you mean?
How about DTW-XNA? I'm not sure about the buisness ties, but it might do at least somewhat better than CVG with its greater coverage of the northeast and Europe.
Correct because there are better options but Delta wants it this way. Why not operate 3X CVG-XNA and cut the ATL capacity on the route and watch XNA-CVG thrive.
klm617 wrote:SumChristianus wrote:klm617 wrote:
c'mon this is all about wanting these folks to connect in ATL rather than offering a nonstop. When you have one flight a day on an rj what kind of flexibility is that when there are multiple dailies to chose when routing over ATL.
So people freely choose the better option, an ATL connection for them to get to XNA.....a nonstop is an option, and its great to have, but here you seem to be saying that CVG-ATL-XNA is a better option for CVG-XNA passengers. Is that what you mean?
How about DTW-XNA? I'm not sure about the buisness ties, but it might do at least somewhat better than CVG with its greater coverage of the northeast and Europe.
Correct because there are better options but Delta wants it this way. Why not operate 3X CVG-XNA and cut the ATL capacity on the route and watch XNA-CVG thrive.
enilria wrote:*DL CVG-XNA AUG 0.7>0.3 OCT 0.7>0 NOV 0.7>0 JAN 0.7>0
777Mech wrote:cvgComair wrote:WaywardMemphian wrote:So Delta gives up the Proctor and Gamble/Walmart route (xna/cvg) I think the relationship between the two was over 10 billion last year. So that's MEM and XNA cut from CVG.
I have heard that P&G (and some other Cincinnati companies) are very annoyed with Delta at the moment. This is centered around DL dropping regional routes such as CVG-PIT/GRR/RIC/MSN/MEM/XNA that cannot be flown easily on other carriers and choosing to start IND-CDG instead of a CVG-AMS or LHR flight. While DL has been trying to grow at CVG, I think the regional hole is something that the local companies really want to fix. I have to wonder if these companies might be or will be giving incentives to OneJet/Ultimate Air Shuttle to grow Cincinnati's regional network, much like the PIT business community did.
If they would put the butts in the seats on the services that were offered before the cut backs, WM/P&G would still have the service levels they want. It's that simple.
klm617 wrote:SumChristianus wrote:klm617 wrote:
c'mon this is all about wanting these folks to connect in ATL rather than offering a nonstop. When you have one flight a day on an rj what kind of flexibility is that when there are multiple dailies to chose when routing over ATL.
So people freely choose the better option, an ATL connection for them to get to XNA.....a nonstop is an option, and its great to have, but here you seem to be saying that CVG-ATL-XNA is a better option for CVG-XNA passengers. Is that what you mean?
How about DTW-XNA? I'm not sure about the buisness ties, but it might do at least somewhat better than CVG with its greater coverage of the northeast and Europe.
Correct because there are better options but Delta wants it this way. Why not operate 3X CVG-XNA and cut the ATL capacity on the route and watch XNA-CVG thrive.
cvgComair wrote:The problem with both CVG-MEM/XNA was DL eliminating the possibility for one-day trips. No business route like this can survive with a schedule like this:
15:35-16:31 CVG-XNA
17:00-19:44 XNA-CVG
This schedule turned what used to be 1-day trips between the two cities into 3 day trips.
klm617 wrote:777Mech wrote:cvgComair wrote:I have heard that P&G (and some other Cincinnati companies) are very annoyed with Delta at the moment. This is centered around DL dropping regional routes such as CVG-PIT/GRR/RIC/MSN/MEM/XNA that cannot be flown easily on other carriers and choosing to start IND-CDG instead of a CVG-AMS or LHR flight. While DL has been trying to grow at CVG, I think the regional hole is something that the local companies really want to fix. I have to wonder if these companies might be or will be giving incentives to OneJet/Ultimate Air Shuttle to grow Cincinnati's regional network, much like the PIT business community did.
If they would put the butts in the seats on the services that were offered before the cut backs, WM/P&G would still have the service levels they want. It's that simple.
c'mon this is all about wanting these folks to connect in ATL rather than offering a nonstop. When you have one flight a day on an rj what kind of flexibility is that when there are multiple dailies to chose when routing over ATL.
jb1087xna wrote:cvgComair wrote:The problem with both CVG-MEM/XNA was DL eliminating the possibility for one-day trips. No business route like this can survive with a schedule like this:
15:35-16:31 CVG-XNA
17:00-19:44 XNA-CVG
This schedule turned what used to be 1-day trips between the two cities into 3 day trips.
True enough, though more of two day trip instead of three. Honestly seems a bit clumsy to wind it down this way instead of just pulling the plug with a decent schedule on a CR7.
WaywardMemphian wrote:So Delta gives up the Proctor and Gamble/Walmart route (xna/cvg) I think the relationship between the two was over 10 billion last year. So that's MEM and XNA cut from CVG.
jb1087xna wrote:Thanks as always!!
jb1087xna wrote:The WM/P&G traffic must not be worth it any longer.
ahj2000 wrote:*HX SFO-HKG NOV 0>0.6 DEC 0>0.6 JAN 0>0.5
*J2 JFK-GYD NOV 0>0.3 DEC 0>0.3 JAN 0>0.3
Both of these are already being flown...
SANFan wrote:I don't know if your comment refers to the second route listed or only the first but I have a different thought about BOS-SAN's cut.
I think Blue was expecting a move by AS this summer to double up on their SAN-BOS service -- by going daily-double -- or perhaps for DL to enter the market, but neither happened so Blue backed off. For them to cut a flight right in the middle of summer's peak season seems extremely odd. For whatever reason it was done, I'm sorry to see the cut.
By the way, Enilria, I haven't said it for a while but I do very much appreciate your effort with these weekly threads and always look forward to reading thru them every Sunday morning! Thank you.
SumChristianus wrote:hiflyeras wrote:Lots of UA cuts in Nov for DEN. Is this an annual, seasonal reduction?
UA always seems to be cutting. Even some of their recent mainline expansions seem to have been disappearing.
WaywardMemphian wrote:Delta seems hell bent to piss customers off.
enilria wrote:jb1087xna wrote:The WM/P&G traffic must not be worth it any longer.
That is what is so surprising. OneJet should dive into this ASAP.
cvgComair wrote:777Mech wrote:cvgComair wrote:I have heard that P&G (and some other Cincinnati companies) are very annoyed with Delta at the moment. This is centered around DL dropping regional routes such as CVG-PIT/GRR/RIC/MSN/MEM/XNA that cannot be flown easily on other carriers and choosing to start IND-CDG instead of a CVG-AMS or LHR flight. While DL has been trying to grow at CVG, I think the regional hole is something that the local companies really want to fix. I have to wonder if these companies might be or will be giving incentives to OneJet/Ultimate Air Shuttle to grow Cincinnati's regional network, much like the PIT business community did.
If they would put the butts in the seats on the services that were offered before the cut backs, WM/P&G would still have the service levels they want. It's that simple.
The problem with both CVG-MEM/XNA was DL eliminating the possibility for one-day trips. No business route like this can survive with a schedule like this:
15:35-16:31 CVG-XNA
17:00-19:44 XNA-CVG
This schedule turned what used to be 1-day trips between the two cities into 3 day trips.klm617 wrote:SumChristianus wrote:
So people freely choose the better option, an ATL connection for them to get to XNA.....a nonstop is an option, and its great to have, but here you seem to be saying that CVG-ATL-XNA is a better option for CVG-XNA passengers. Is that what you mean?
How about DTW-XNA? I'm not sure about the buisness ties, but it might do at least somewhat better than CVG with its greater coverage of the northeast and Europe.
Correct because there are better options but Delta wants it this way. Why not operate 3X CVG-XNA and cut the ATL capacity on the route and watch XNA-CVG thrive.
???. CVG could support 1x/day with proper timing, no way multiple times a day would work.
cvgComair wrote:jb1087xna wrote:cvgComair wrote:The problem with both CVG-MEM/XNA was DL eliminating the possibility for one-day trips. No business route like this can survive with a schedule like this:
15:35-16:31 CVG-XNA
17:00-19:44 XNA-CVG
This schedule turned what used to be 1-day trips between the two cities into 3 day trips.
True enough, though more of two day trip instead of three. Honestly seems a bit clumsy to wind it down this way instead of just pulling the plug with a decent schedule on a CR7.
It appears that loads have been decreasing for the past few years anyways. Not sure why P&G/Walmart would be send so much fewer employees on the route. I think the better schedule would have helped, but it seems that it might not have been enough to save the route:
Year, Passengers, Seats, Loads
2014, 18446, 26777, 68.9%
2015, 15932, 24277, 65.6%
2016, 13450, 24486, 54.9%
2017, 12939, 31589, 40.9%
However, it does seem that the larger aircraft stopped the decline in passenger traffic that was seen on the route. If we were to adjust the load factors as if the flights were on a 50-seater, the loads would be 54% for June '17 to Dec '17. I wish we could have seen if passenger traffic would have went back up, but DL probably felt that it would have not gone back up enough.
777Mech wrote:If they would put the butts in the seats on the services that were offered before the cut backs, WM/P&G would still have the service levels they want. It's that simple.
klm617 wrote:Correct because there are better options but Delta wants it this way. Why not operate 3X CVG-XNA and cut the ATL capacity on the route and watch XNA-CVG thrive.
Midwestindy wrote:CVG-XNA demand is pretty tiny, I think the LFs are more of a resemblance to the drop in connecting pax. Back in 2015, at most there were 17 O&D pax a day. In 2017, at most there were 21 O&D pax. So therefore O&D on this route has increased but connections have decreased.
The amount of pax connecting through other airports to get to either CVG or XNA is tiny as well. For Q4 (largest months of travel between CVG-XNA) around 3 pax connected through ORD, and around 3 connected through ATL
cvgComair wrote:777Mech wrote:cvgComair wrote:I have heard that P&G (and some other Cincinnati companies) are very annoyed with Delta at the moment. This is centered around DL dropping regional routes such as CVG-PIT/GRR/RIC/MSN/MEM/XNA that cannot be flown easily on other carriers and choosing to start IND-CDG instead of a CVG-AMS or LHR flight. While DL has been trying to grow at CVG, I think the regional hole is something that the local companies really want to fix. I have to wonder if these companies might be or will be giving incentives to OneJet/Ultimate Air Shuttle to grow Cincinnati's regional network, much like the PIT business community did.
If they would put the butts in the seats on the services that were offered before the cut backs, WM/P&G would still have the service levels they want. It's that simple.
The problem with both CVG-MEM/XNA was DL eliminating the possibility for one-day trips. No business route like this can survive with a schedule like this:
15:35-16:31 CVG-XNA
17:00-19:44 XNA-CVG
This schedule turned what used to be 1-day trips between the two cities into 3 day trips.klm617 wrote:SumChristianus wrote:
So people freely choose the better option, an ATL connection for them to get to XNA.....a nonstop is an option, and its great to have, but here you seem to be saying that CVG-ATL-XNA is a better option for CVG-XNA passengers. Is that what you mean?
How about DTW-XNA? I'm not sure about the buisness ties, but it might do at least somewhat better than CVG with its greater coverage of the northeast and Europe.
Correct because there are better options but Delta wants it this way. Why not operate 3X CVG-XNA and cut the ATL capacity on the route and watch XNA-CVG thrive.
???. CVG could support 1x/day with proper timing, no way multiple times a day would work.
cvgComair wrote:This is actually a perfect example of Delta pushing connections through ATL and not using other hubs effectively. Sure CVG isn't connected to many smaller airports in the NE, but the demand from those to XNA is pretty much 0. Also, CVG has gained seats to the northeast since 2015, so there is no reason that connections should be decreasing on the route unless DL is purposely routing pax through ATL instead.
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:How many of you actually travel for business? This notion of same day trips of the much lauded “business traveler” is so overplayed and overhyped on a.net especially in markets where is doesn’t really exist.
I travel fairly extensively for work, and know or observe the executives that travel and they don’t do same day travel.
Outside of a handful of the biggest cities where hotel prices can be obscene or you are talking about top level executives you don’t see that behavior much. Even for a single day of business most people will travel in the day prior.
XNA is not a day trip type of market. And guess what, some of the biggest drivers of business travel in and out of XNA are actually many of the consultancies and technology implementation firms that are doing a lot of M-TH or M-F weekly commutes to and from their home offices.
cvgComair wrote:This is actually a perfect example of Delta pushing connections through ATL and not using other hubs effectively. Sure CVG isn't connected to many smaller airports in the NE, but the demand from those to XNA is pretty much 0. Also, CVG has gained seats to the northeast since 2015, so there is no reason that connections should be decreasing on the route unless DL is purposely routing pax through ATL instead.
Midwestindy wrote:PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:How many of you actually travel for business? This notion of same day trips of the much lauded “business traveler” is so overplayed and overhyped on a.net especially in markets where is doesn’t really exist.
I travel fairly extensively for work, and know or observe the executives that travel and they don’t do same day travel.
Outside of a handful of the biggest cities where hotel prices can be obscene or you are talking about top level executives you don’t see that behavior much. Even for a single day of business most people will travel in the day prior.
XNA is not a day trip type of market. And guess what, some of the biggest drivers of business travel in and out of XNA are actually many of the consultancies and technology implementation firms that are doing a lot of M-TH or M-F weekly commutes to and from their home offices.
I travel for work almost weekly and I can say there is definitely a mix of both, I have a lot of trips leaving at 5am/6am and returning at 5pm-8pm in the evening. I sometimes have to fly out the evening before for an early morning meeting so it just depends. Although, it I have noticed on this forum that a lot of people think the bulk of biz travelers are doing day trips (which is not the case).
cvgComair wrote:This is actually a perfect example of Delta pushing connections through ATL and not using other hubs effectively. Sure CVG isn't connected to many smaller airports in the NE, but the demand from those to XNA is pretty much 0. Also, CVG has gained seats to the northeast since 2015, so there is no reason that connections should be decreasing on the route unless DL is purposely routing pax through ATL instead.
RetiredNWA wrote:The quality of this site has gone tremendously downhill since the inception of free membership and lack of moderation.
RetiredNWA wrote:Enilria’s posts are always informative.
Cubsrule wrote:Midwestindy wrote:PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:How many of you actually travel for business? This notion of same day trips of the much lauded “business traveler” is so overplayed and overhyped on a.net especially in markets where is doesn’t really exist.
I travel fairly extensively for work, and know or observe the executives that travel and they don’t do same day travel.
Outside of a handful of the biggest cities where hotel prices can be obscene or you are talking about top level executives you don’t see that behavior much. Even for a single day of business most people will travel in the day prior.
XNA is not a day trip type of market. And guess what, some of the biggest drivers of business travel in and out of XNA are actually many of the consultancies and technology implementation firms that are doing a lot of M-TH or M-F weekly commutes to and from their home offices.
I travel for work almost weekly and I can say there is definitely a mix of both, I have a lot of trips leaving at 5am/6am and returning at 5pm-8pm in the evening. I sometimes have to fly out the evening before for an early morning meeting so it just depends. Although, it I have noticed on this forum that a lot of people think the bulk of biz travelers are doing day trips (which is not the case).
Same here. It largely depends on timing of my business and geography. But I have plenty of 1:00 meetings, and if those are in places like Chicago, New York, or Dallas that aren't that far and have many flights, I may well go the morning of. Day trips that involve distances over about 1,000 miles and/or require a connection are tough and I try to avoid those.cvgComair wrote:This is actually a perfect example of Delta pushing connections through ATL and not using other hubs effectively. Sure CVG isn't connected to many smaller airports in the NE, but the demand from those to XNA is pretty much 0. Also, CVG has gained seats to the northeast since 2015, so there is no reason that connections should be decreasing on the route unless DL is purposely routing pax through ATL instead.
Because the gauge is so much bigger, and CASM is thus lower, at ATL, using ATL may actually be more cost-effective despite the more circuitous routings.
Cubsrule wrote:Because the gauge is so much bigger, and CASM is thus lower, at ATL, using ATL may actually be more cost-effective despite the more circuitous routings.
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:How many of you actually travel for business? This notion of same day trips of the much lauded “business traveler” is so overplayed and overhyped on a.net especially in markets where is doesn’t really exist.
I travel fairly extensively for work, and know or observe the executives that travel and they don’t do same day travel.
Outside of a handful of the biggest cities where hotel prices can be obscene or you are talking about top level executives you don’t see that behavior much. Even for a single day of business most people will travel in the day prior.
XNA is not a day trip type of market. And guess what, some of the biggest drivers of business travel in and out of XNA are actually many of the consultancies and technology implementation firms that are doing a lot of M-TH or M-F weekly commutes to and from their home offices.
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:How many of you actually travel for business? This notion of same day trips of the much lauded “business traveler” is so overplayed and overhyped on a.net especially in markets where is doesn’t really exist.
I travel fairly extensively for work, and know or observe the executives that travel and they don’t do same day travel.
Outside of a handful of the biggest cities where hotel prices can be obscene or you are talking about top level executives you don’t see that behavior much. Even for a single day of business most people will travel in the day prior.
XNA is not a day trip type of market. And guess what, some of the biggest drivers of business travel in and out of XNA are actually many of the consultancies and technology implementation firms that are doing a lot of M-TH or M-F weekly commutes to and from their home offices.
RetiredNWA wrote:The armchair airline CEO’s on this website have absolutely no idea what they’re talking about when it comes down to right-sizing an operation to maximize profitability - that’s the end game of every airline - period. The airline industry is and always will be, inherently fluid based upon a multitude of factors. Those of us with real experience and knowledge are always beat-up in posts because we don’t agree that Pan Am isn’t flying a 747-300SP with radial engines from Frankfurt to Brisbane via Little Rock because it makes sense on flight simulator due to fuel burn or simulated winds, or because we offer a real-world explanation as to why Delta doesn’t fly the Concorde five times daily between XNA and JFK.
I challenge any of these armchair CEO’s to call up Revenue Management, Fleet Planning, Schedule Planning or any other department with knowledge and know-how and ask them the same insane questions they’ve posted regarding XNA. They’d say: “Oh, you’re calling from airliners dot net? You have NO idea what goes on here!”
Enilria’s posts are always informative.
The quality of this site has gone tremendously downhill since the inception of free membership and lack of moderation.