AirFrance-KLM's Janaillac Resigns

KLDC10 · Fri May 04, 2018 5:18 pm

There are a few ongoing threads about different events at Air France, but this probably deserves a new one:

From the BBC:
"Air France-KLM chief Jean-Marc Janaillac has announced his resignation after French staff at the strike-hit airline rejected a new pay deal.

"I accept the consequences of this vote and will tender my resignation to the boards of Air France and Air France-KLM in coming days," he said.

In a ballot, 55% of the French employees rejected the deal."

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-44011391

----
This is not good news for the AirFrance-KLM group and introduces a new period of uncertainty as the company searches for a new leader. Janaillac is true to his word - for which he ought to be commended, even if the outcome is less than ideal.

bennett123 · Fri May 04, 2018 5:46 pm

So who wants the job.

KLDC10 · Fri May 04, 2018 6:15 pm

bennett123 wrote:
So who wants the job.

That's the question. Who would? It's a thankless task, and there are always hundreds of other people available to tell you how to do it better...

kjeld0d · Fri May 04, 2018 8:48 pm

Liquify.

SamYeager2016 · Fri May 04, 2018 9:56 pm

Presumably with Janaillac gone the strikes will be in abeyance for a while which might stop all the premium frequent flyers deserting to another airline at least until the strikes start again?

Aesma · Fri May 04, 2018 10:22 pm

So far the next striking days are still on.

I suggest offering the job to one of the striking pilots.

Dutchy · Fri May 04, 2018 11:06 pm

bennett123 wrote:
So who wants the job.

Nobody with any talent. Why would one? You are in no position to actually steer the ship called Air France in the right direction. The radical unions are in charge and only got stronger today. And indeed they are heading towards an Alitalia model.

PatrickZ80 · Fri May 04, 2018 11:07 pm

This is the end of Air France, they'll suffer the same fate as Alitalia. Those stupid pilots only thought short-term, but in the long term it will mean the loss of their jobs as Air France will cease to exist.

Hopefully KLM can leave the sinking ship in time.

Dutchy · Fri May 04, 2018 11:10 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Hopefully KLM can leave the sinking ship in time.

Might be sold off in order to have the last pay rise for the pilots before going bankrupt. KLM will be sold of to AIG

DDR · Fri May 04, 2018 11:13 pm

bennett123 wrote:
So who wants the job.

Call Herb. He is probably looking for a new gig.

Amsterdam · Fri May 04, 2018 11:21 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
This is the end of Air France, they'll suffer the same fate as Alitalia. Those stupid pilots only thought short-term, but in the long term it will mean the loss of their jobs as Air France will cease to exist.

Hopefully KLM can leave the sinking ship in time.

The referendum was for all AF employees.
Not only pilots.
More than 20.000 employees voted No.
Thats 55% of the 80% that voted.

Amsterdam · Fri May 04, 2018 11:23 pm

Dutchy wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
Hopefully KLM can leave the sinking ship in time.

Might be sold off in order to have the last pay rise for the pilots before going bankrupt. KLM will be sold of to AIG

Of course not.
Delta will not give KLM up.
And BA would kill KLM as a tranfer airline immediatly. So no.

mercure1 · Fri May 04, 2018 11:52 pm

Janaillac shot himself by risking his job on a company-wide referendum which many from day one said would fail.

Offering meager 7 percent raise over 4-years to employees many of which have had their pay frozen for 4-6 years including having given concessions was a sign of how far he was out of touch with the employee group while company earned significant profits.

Funniest part is that Janaillac was appointed in 2016 following disgraced Alexandre de Juniac based on his abilities in previously winning support from workers in his previous jobs at ground transport company and Paris metro. He obviously miserably failed to connect.

bigjku · Sat May 05, 2018 12:04 am

mercure1 wrote:
Janaillac shot himself by risking his job on a company-wide referendum which many from day one said would fail.

Offering meager 7 percent raise over 4-years to employees many of which have had their pay frozen for 4-6 years including having given concessions was a sign of how far he was out of touch with the employee group while company earned significant profits.

Funniest part is that Janaillac was appointed in 2016 following disgraced Alexandre de Juniac based on his abilities in previously winning support from workers in his previous jobs at ground transport company and Paris metro. He obviously miserably failed to connect.

What do the employees make relative to their peers elsewhere. None of the rest of this much matters. I mean I get that it does to them. But on a business run on this thin of a margin you can’t be a huge outlier on employee pay and be profitable. It’s imposisble. Are Air France employees underpaid relative to the market?

737307 · Sat May 05, 2018 12:06 am

I watched part of the resignation speech by Janaillac. My first impression is that he does not seem the "evil person" some make him out to be. I do think he really tried to make it work. It seemed realistic to me when he talked about the current financial condition of AF and not having much room for wage increases.
Regarding shooting himself in the foot... I think he might just retire with plenty of money and a nice pension. I am sure he doesn't need another stress job.

Jetty · Sat May 05, 2018 12:16 am

mercure1 wrote:
Funniest part is that Janaillac was appointed in 2016 following disgraced Alexandre de Juniac based on his abilities in previously winning support from workers in his previous jobs at ground transport company and Paris metro. He obviously miserably failed to connect.

Has it come up to you that if someone won worker support at previous companies but can't achieve the same at AF, that it might be that he isn't the problem but the staff of AF is? No CEO can make a company with staff like this successful, and most people at KL are sick of their workshy French 'colleagues'.

mercure1 · Sat May 05, 2018 12:21 am

bigjku wrote:
What do the employees make relative to their peers elsewhere. None of the rest of this much matters. I mean I get that it does to them. But on a business run on this thin of a margin you can’t be a huge outlier on employee pay and be profitable. It’s imposisble. Are Air France employees underpaid relative to the market?

Average wage growth in France between January 2014 and June 2017 was 2.38 per annum. As of April 2018 the French inflation rate was 1.7 per annum.

So at very least employees should match what the rest of the labor market is doing and help cover the increased cost of living over last few years.

This of course ignores the concessions including pay freezes and work rule change concessions AF staff have already made for the company over the last few years that are worth many hundred million Euro's.

With company having set record earnings in 2017 ( https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... up-445990/ ) the employees would like a halt to concessions and earn some of their money back to catch up with society. Seems quite fair.

Amsterdam · Sat May 05, 2018 12:25 am

They should get their salaries cut.
Not raised but cut.

Jetty · Sat May 05, 2018 12:26 am

mercure1 wrote:
bigjku wrote:
What do the employees make relative to their peers elsewhere. None of the rest of this much matters. I mean I get that it does to them. But on a business run on this thin of a margin you can’t be a huge outlier on employee pay and be profitable. It’s imposisble. Are Air France employees underpaid relative to the market?

Average wage growth in France between January 2014 and June 2017 was 2.38 per annum. As of April 2018 the French inflation rate was 1.7 per annum.

So at very least employees should match what the rest of the labor market is doing and help cover the increased cost of living over last few years.

This of course ignores the concessions including pay freezes and work rule change concessions AF staff have already made for the company over the last few years that are worth many hundred million Euro's.

With company having set record earnings in 2017 ( https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... up-445990/ ) the employees would like a halt to concessions and earn some of their money back to catch up with society. Seems quite fair.

You ignore the question what employees are paid relative to their peers elsewhere. French inflation isn't relevant for those numbers, and AF can't compete in a single EU aviation market when employees are so much more expensive. Also funny you support your argument with record earnings of the group as a whole, KL contributed more to that while AF is bigger. AF's results weren't that good at all. And you know why? Because at KL they actually work and don't strike a few times a year.

737307 · Sat May 05, 2018 12:28 am

mercure1 wrote:
With company having set record earnings in 2017 ( https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... up-445990/ ) the employees would like a halt to concessions and earn some of their money back to catch up with society. Seems quite fair.

Contribution by airline to the Group's results

                      Fourth Quarter       Full year
                      2017   Change     2017   Change
Air France Group (€m)   43     -3       588   +216
Operating margin (%)   1.2%   -0.0 pt   3.7%   +1.3 pt
KLM Group (€m)         70     +18       910   +229
Operating margin (%)   2.8%   +0.6 pt   8.8%   +1.9 pt

https://globenewswire.com/news-release/ ... SULTS.html

So yes, KL personnel should get a big increase. And AF pilots ...forget about it.

bigjku · Sat May 05, 2018 12:28 am

mercure1 wrote:
bigjku wrote:
What do the employees make relative to their peers elsewhere. None of the rest of this much matters. I mean I get that it does to them. But on a business run on this thin of a margin you can’t be a huge outlier on employee pay and be profitable. It’s imposisble. Are Air France employees underpaid relative to the market?

Average wage growth in France between January 2014 and June 2017 was 2.38 per annum. As of April 2018 the French inflation rate was 1.7 per annum.

So at very least employees should match what the rest of the labor market is doing and help cover the increased cost of living over last few years.

This of course ignores the concessions including pay freezes and work rule change concessions AF staff have already made for the company over the last few years that are worth many hundred million Euro's.

With company having set record earnings in 2017 ( https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... up-445990/ ) the employees would like a halt to concessions and earn some of their money back to catch up with society. Seems quite fair.

Not if they were overpaid before the freeze and concessions it isn’t.

LAXintl · Sat May 05, 2018 12:36 am

Imo, neither employees or wages are the primary problem at AFKL.

There is incredible inefficiency at the airline, tons of overhead, duplication, etc.

Like LH Group they need to integrate much more deeply, consolidate functions, and reduce things like a number of offices and facilities. Also a large portion of the network is not profit based, but based on historic links. (remember few years back during one of the pilot strikes CEO stated less than 50% of longhaul network for profitable).

There are much savings that can be accomplished without starting a war with your labor groups.

(p.s. I write this having a business relationship with AFKL the last few years)

JustSomeDood · Sat May 05, 2018 12:37 am

LAXintl wrote:
Imo, neither employees or wages are the primary problem at AFKL.

There is incredible inefficiency at the airline, tons of overhead, duplication, etc.

Like LH Group they need to integrate much more deeply, consolidate functions, and reduce things like a number of offices and facilities. Also a large portion of the network is not profit based, but based on historic links. (remember few years back during one of the pilot strikes CEO stated less than 50% of longhaul network for profitable).

There are much savings that can be accomplished without starting a war with your labor groups.

(p.s. I write this having a business relationship with AFKL the last few years)

I can't imagine that a labor group which is so hostile to not getting wage increases would be fine with AF cutting overhead and duplication (read: staff), but what do I know?

jfern022 · Sat May 05, 2018 12:38 am

Install DL management at the top of AF/KL

DL747400 · Sat May 05, 2018 12:52 am

Dutchy wrote:
....KLM will be sold of to AIG

If you meant IAG, then I think it is safe to assume that DL would be 1st in line ahead of anyone else, including IAG.

PatrickZ80 · Sat May 05, 2018 1:21 am

mercure1 wrote:
Offering meager 7 percent raise over 4-years to employees many of which have had their pay frozen for 4-6 years including having given concessions was a sign of how far he was out of touch with the employee group while company earned significant profits.

7 percent is anything but meager, specially when you consider that they were already heavily overpaid compared to other airlines. Those concessions were needed to get back in line with other airlines, but now the Air France pilots want to get out of line again. Did the company earn significant profits? KLM did, Air France didn't. And KLM is not going to pay the pay rise for the Air France pilots.

PS the KLM pilots got a far lower pay rise than the Air France pilots have been offered, but they accepted. KLM is in line with other airlines, that's why they're profitable. As long as the attitude of the Air France employees doesn't change Air France will never be profitable.

PatrickZ80 · Sat May 05, 2018 1:22 am

jfern022 wrote:
Install DL management at the top of AF/KL

It doesn't even have to be Delta, just put KLM in charge. KLM is the profitable airline out of the two, they know how it's done.

PatrickZ80 · Sat May 05, 2018 1:35 am

Amsterdam wrote:
They should get their salaries cut.
Not raised but cut.

I agree, they already earn too much and now they want even more.

If I were in charge of Air France I'd start by firing every single employee. No exceptions, everybody gets fired. I don't care how good or how loyal they are, they all lose their jobs. Then after that I'd start hiring new staff against much lower wages. Plenty of people who want to work for that and those who think it's too little can find a job somewhere else. Of course a lot of old employees would also want to return. They can if they accept the pay cut, otherwise I'll just hire someone else in their place.

UPlog · Sat May 05, 2018 2:25 am

PatrickZ80 good thing you are not as you would know the most basic labor law let alone collective bargaining agreements dont allow such non-sense actions.

You’d probably also be starting the next French revolution where they would bring the guillotine back in your honor.

Now let's talk about more sensible solutions and stop making employees out to be the sole bad guys.

LAXintl · Sat May 05, 2018 2:49 am

What does whatever KLM pay or labor agreement have to do with AF?

You think IAG pays the same for airport staff for BA at LHR as they do for Iberia in Spain? Of course not, each nation and city has it own economic, social and labor differences that drive what acceptable local pay and rules are.

Heck even US airlines long time ago learned they must pay to person in Massachusetts more than one in Mississippi.

janders · Sat May 05, 2018 3:04 am

The contempt some display here for AF employees is pretty sad.

Majority of those that strike and voted no are your average front line employees that for years have experienced wage freezes and work rule concessions.
Point has come where the company turned profits and cost have continued to rise in society while their paychecks have not. Its time for payback.

Jetty · Sat May 05, 2018 3:10 am

LAXintl wrote:
What does whatever KLM pay or labor agreement have to do with AF? Zero

Exactly. But likewise have KL's profits zero to do with AF wages. And yet people in this topic (mercure1) and French unions are justifying/demanding wage increases because of group results. Over the past 15 months it's thanks to KL that AFKL made any profit, that's not an argument for increasing wages at AF.

Jetty · Sat May 05, 2018 3:13 am

janders wrote:
The contempt some display here for AF employees is pretty sad.

Majority of those that strike and voted no are your average front line employees that for years have experienced wage freezes and work rule concessions.
Point has come where the company turned profits and cost have continued to rise in society while their paychecks have not. Its time for payback.

I find the contempt that striking AF employees have for paying passengers and Dutch colleagues who DO work pretty sad.

Note that AF hardly made any profit over the past 15 months, so according to your logic it isn't time for payback yet. And if the AF employees continue striking at this rate that moment will never come.

LAXintl · Sat May 05, 2018 3:25 am

Jetty wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
What does whatever KLM pay or labor agreement have to do with AF? Zero

Exactly. But likewise have KL's profits zero to do with AF wages. And yet people in this topic (mercure1) and French unions are justifying/demanding wage increases because of group results. Over the past 15 months it's thanks to KL that AFKL made any profit, that's not an argument for increasing wages at AF.

According to their 2017 report - AF earned a RECORD profit of EUR 588mil.

http://www.airfranceklm.com/sites/defau ... en_def.pdf

Yes KLM did very well itself, but to say AF is not contributing is simply dishonest. Matter of fact AF actually had higher EBITDA than KLM in 2017, but gets hit harder in taxes. For the record AF also posted profits in 2016 (EUR 372mil) and 2015 (EUR426m)

axiom · Sat May 05, 2018 3:29 am

janders wrote:
The contempt some display here for AF employees is pretty sad.

Majority of those that strike and voted no are your average front line employees that for years have experienced wage freezes and work rule concessions.
Point has come where the company turned profits and cost have continued to rise in society while their paychecks have not. Its time for payback.

This really sums it up quite simply. Well stated.

The contempt here for labor borders on the pathological. Also yet to see evidence that AF/KLM labor is "overpaid," or a clear rationale for why profits cannot be shared with employees who have made concessions which enable that profitability. You have to be blind as a bat to see that income inequality is growing severely at a time when wealth generation has never been higher -- that happens through the redistribution of wealth (eg wage theft). The great irony is that the posters who fashion themselves as armchair CEOs will almost certainly live their life as a member of that 99%.

All this to say: why not start from the vantage of trying to make the profit of companies work for all stakeholders? Radical concept, people...

UPlog · Sat May 05, 2018 3:43 am

Thanks LAXintl. You are probably one of the most straight forward and level headed posters I have come across on the site.

As you just showed with AF side itself having accrued nearly 1.5billion Euro's profit in last 3-years, the employees are hardly irrational in wanting relief after years of freezes and concessionary work.

For company to only offer 7 percent over 4 years, does not even cover the average wage increase in France let alone actually put some true money back in the employee pockets. As posted in the strike thread, even the employee demand for immediate 6% wage increase would cost the company under 120mil Euros annually, something the AF side alone can sustain based on its standalone profits.

Jetty · Sat May 05, 2018 3:43 am

LAXintl wrote:
Jetty wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
What does whatever KLM pay or labor agreement have to do with AF? Zero

Exactly. But likewise have KL's profits zero to do with AF wages. And yet people in this topic (mercure1) and French unions are justifying/demanding wage increases because of group results. Over the past 15 months it's thanks to KL that AFKL made any profit, that's not an argument for increasing wages at AF.

According to their 2017 report - AF earned a RECORD profit of EUR 588mil.

http://www.airfranceklm.com/sites/defau ... en_def.pdf

Yes KLM did very well itself, but to say AF is not contributing is simply dishonest. Matter of fact AF actually had higher EBITDA than KLM in 2017, but gets hit harder in taxes. For the record AF also posted profits in 2016 (EUR 372mil) and 2015 (EUR426m)

Note I said 15 months, not 12. According to their Q1 report AF posted a 169m LOSS. Add to that the loss in April because of the strikes estimated at 200m and my statement that AF hardly made a profit is correct.

http://www.airfranceklm.com/en/news/fir ... 18-results

Jetty · Sat May 05, 2018 3:50 am

UPlog wrote:
As you just showed with AF side itself having accrued nearly 1.5billion Euro's profit in last 3-years, the employees are hardly irrational in wanting relief after years of freezes and concessionary work.

You should add that equals a profit margin of less than 4% in favorable circumstances, the lowest of all large European airlines. There's a reason Wizz-air is worth more than AFKL.

For company to only offer 7 percent over 4 years, does not even cover the average wage increase in France let alone actually put some true money back in the employee pockets.

Put some money back in employee pockets? You make it seem like they did voluntary work over the past years and lived of savings :lol:

You do realize that AF employees still earned more than most of their European counterparts over all those years?

LAXintl · Sat May 05, 2018 4:08 am

Jetty wrote:
Note I said 15 months, not 12. According to their Q1 report AF posted a 169m LOSS. Add to that the loss in April because of the strikes estimated at 200m and my statement that AF hardly made a profit is correct.

http://www.airfranceklm.com/en/news/fir ... 18-results

AF lost money in Q1 2017 also so it really does not matter 12 or 15 months as it has a typical seasonal business model with profits over the summer.

Regarding strike cost that's largely managents to decide. As LH finally came around after wasting tons of money after several years of strikes, it's often far cheaper to settle than continue with unknown of ongoign labor action overhang.

737307 · Sat May 05, 2018 4:15 am

How about summoning the union reps to AF headquarters, shoving the financial statement under their noses and asking them how THEY see the profit be distributed over investments and salaries.

LAXintl · Sat May 05, 2018 4:16 am

Jetty wrote:
You do realize that AF employees still earned more than most of their European counterparts over all those years?

Show us the numbers to back up your statement.

Also forget just the Europe context same manner it makes no sense to compare a BA employee in London to an IB one in Madrid or LO one Warsaw.

So how does AF airport staff for example after several years of freezes and work concession stack up against French labor market, local cost, economy, social, etc.

I'd really be curious to see the facts behind such broad statements.

IPFreely · Sat May 05, 2018 5:21 am

mercure1 wrote:
Average wage growth in France between January 2014 and June 2017 was 2.38 per annum. As of April 2018 the French inflation rate was 1.7 per annum.

So at very least employees should match what the rest of the labor market is doing and help cover the increased cost of living over last few years.

In other words, Air France employees are saying "We deserve a raise because other people are getting raises?"

In my business we commonly tell employees "Your raise becomes effective when you become effective." And it's not that we don't give raises, we do, and some very good ones. People who do an outstanding job and do more than is expected get big raises which they deserve. And people who have their hand out saying they want a raise because it's time for a raise or someone else got a raise so they should, too? They also get what they deserve.

If this post represents the attitude of Air France unions then the airline truly is doomed. May it R.I.P.

AirAfreak · Sat May 05, 2018 6:39 am

The frustration (and rightfully so) from cabin crew stem from a recent (huge) salary increase (or bonus, I cannot remember) for one of (or more) the top executives while cabin crew maintain the same salary for several years due to a pay freeze for the overall health of the airline. The details are foggy, but this is information explained to me a week or two ago from an inside source very close to me. At least for the cabin crew, they are seeking reimbursement due to loss of wages or what some may label it as, “back-pay.”

axiom · Sat May 05, 2018 7:34 am

AirAfreak wrote:
The frustration (and rightfully so) from cabin crew stem from a recent (huge) salary increase (or bonus, I cannot remember) for one of (or more) the top executives while cabin crew maintain the same salary for several years due to a pay freeze for the overall health of the airline. The details are foggy, but this is information explained to me a week or two ago from an inside source very close to me. At least for the cabin crew, they are seeking reimbursement due to loss of wages or what some may label it as, “back-pay.”

And they ought to be mad, because this is happening in sectors across the board, including mine.

For better or for worse, I think we are in line for another generation of unionziation, because the only clear result of the "if you work for it, you'll get it, when I say you'll get it" attitude that some posters have has been the redistribution of wealth on massive terms. Thanks, but no thanks.

LAX772LR · Sat May 05, 2018 7:46 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
If I were in charge of Air France I'd start by firing every single employee. No exceptions, everybody gets fired. I don't care how good or how loyal they are, they all lose their jobs. Then after that I'd start hiring new staff against much lower wages.

Do you not realize that you just described the single most fundamental reason for which unions exist?

...it's to prevent that EXACT scenario.

jsfr · Sat May 05, 2018 8:52 am

This is so much more complicateed than you all make it sound. The situation at AF is much more than just unions vs. bosses.

I despise modern unions and their playing with peoples livelihoods just to continue to exist, but this is a little different;

1) True Sacrifices. Most categories have made significant sacrifices over the past few years to help the company survive and evolve - not just pay freezes but also organisational, hours, multi-tasking etc. I agree the pay rises should be linnked to individual performance andpromotions - over and above inflation. But in a large hierarchal company like AF not everyone is going to get regular promotions, so wages should - long term, at least keep up with inflation - otherwise the employees will just jump ship - in which case the place will be full of 20 year olds (Easyjet, Ryannair) or people who are just not very good...

2) The Pilots. Self-centered, rich, no morals, willing to destroy the place. The SNPL has always been the most agressive and unflexible union of the lot. They have never accepted any of the sacrifices of the other categories. Thankfully for them there are the ground handlers, cabin crew, checkin staff etc. to do the dirty work and save their co,pany so far... The vast majority of strikes until this one were the Pilot's only. Without the Pilot's the referndum would certainly have been accepted and strikes over. Not only the actual votes but also the SNPL union was the one messing with the other employees to convince them to refuse the offer - in support of the pilots. The CFDT union representing a majority of others actually recommended to vote to accept the offer.

3) Confusion with the SNCF. At the moment in France our new President is finally taking on the railway workers - andhopefully winning. That creates a lot of strikes that impact a lot more of the population than the Air France strikes. The union position in the railways is completely ridiculous and has very little public support - the government is very determined and will rightly win that battle. However in the Public's mind and the government stance the SNCF and Air France labour issues are completely mixed up (two big transport strikes at the same time) even though they are asking for / battling against two very different things. With this confusion, the government/management of Air France really cannot give more (even if maybe they would want to) because of the message it sends to the Railway Unions - and the public - being nice to rich Pilots but not to poor railway workers.... On the other hand the unions are taking advantage of AF employees - if the unions fail in the railway disputes they (the unions) will be weakened forever in France, so they are trying to light fires in all sorts of other industies to create mass social pressure on the government - so far only AF workers are also striking (for issues completely unrelated and since before the railway workers any way).

Ideally, they quickly accept the first year offer subject to further discussions after Summer to allow for a new CEO and for the Railway strikes to finish so that they can avoid any confusion of the two issues and allow the government/AF management the possibility to make some other offers.

Poor timing and being used by their unions - plus the Pilots egoism... Quite simple really.

B777LRF · Sat May 05, 2018 9:01 am

I'll have to agree with the more level headed posters on this thread: The disdain displayed for workers by armchair CEO's, posted from the safety of their mothers basement, is flabbergasting.

AF have screwed their employees over for years, whilst handing out huge bonuses to the top brass. Well, excuse me, but a CEO and his/her executive board is absolutely worthless, if they don't have a huge score of employees to make sure the business actually runs. And if they can't keep the employees motivated and properly compensated, they have no business running a business. To wit, executives are easily dispensable; they regularly fly from job to job. Loyal and hardworking employees, however, are far less so.

Flanker7 · Sat May 05, 2018 9:06 am

janders wrote:
The contempt some display here for AF employees is pretty sad.

Majority of those that strike and voted no are your average front line employees that for years have experienced wage freezes and work rule concessions.
Point has come where the company turned profits and cost have continued to rise in society while their paychecks have not. Its time for payback.

The contempt is not so strange. My wife is a KLM crew member and not even Dutch but she's had it with the French and their strikes. She feel that they are working there butts of and made sacrifices whilst their French counterpart are flushing money down the drain not willing to give in.

bigjku · Sat May 05, 2018 9:32 am

LAXintl wrote:
Jetty wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
What does whatever KLM pay or labor agreement have to do with AF? Zero

Exactly. But likewise have KL's profits zero to do with AF wages. And yet people in this topic (mercure1) and French unions are justifying/demanding wage increases because of group results. Over the past 15 months it's thanks to KL that AFKL made any profit, that's not an argument for increasing wages at AF.

According to their 2017 report - AF earned a RECORD profit of EUR 588mil.

http://www.airfranceklm.com/sites/defau ... en_def.pdf

Yes KLM did very well itself, but to say AF is not contributing is simply dishonest. Matter of fact AF actually had higher EBITDA than KLM in 2017, but gets hit harder in taxes. For the record AF also posted profits in 2016 (EUR 372mil) and 2015 (EUR426m)

And salaries are 30% of the total revenue. A 7% rise in salary eats EUR 533 million a year in profit based on the statements you link. In an environment of rising interest rates and fuel cost you just made the company unprofitable again. Basically the offer made was clearly banking on productivity growth and effectively offered 90% of the profits on 2016 to the employees over the course of 4 years.

A very quick comp shows Lufthansa around 18% of revenue. BA is around 20%. Delta is 25% but has less debt relative to its size by a good margin than AF/KLM. So I am pretty comfortable that someone is overpaid there. Maybe it’s all going to management but given the relative numbers of them to line staff it would have to be an egregious overpayment.

nordikcam · Sat May 05, 2018 9:34 am

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PatrickZ80 wrote:
This is the end of Air France, they'll suffer the same fate as Alitalia. Those stupid pilots only thought short-term, but in the long term it will mean the loss of their jobs as Air France will cease to exist.

Hopefully KLM can leave the sinking ship in time.

Unfortunately, I do not see any sign that KLM would leave the group ... "hélas" as we say in french, a thousand times "hélas", unfortunately. KLM must be happy about this situation without me knowing why!

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