With MKE's new international terminal only a couple years away (Demolition of E to begin sometime this year and 1st phase beginning next year with completion slated for 2020), any guesses or rumors, etc. on who will be the 1st international long haul carrier at MKE? Air Canda isn't longhaul because MKE-Toronto is only a 90 minute flight away.

My guesses:
1)Icelandair (hey they went to MCI)
2)RyanAir
3)Wow
4)Norwegian (I know they already do occasional charters)

rj777 wrote:

With MKE's new international terminal only a couple years away (Demolition of E to begin sometime this year and 1st phase beginning next year with completion slated for 2020), any guesses or rumors, etc. on who will be the 1st international long haul carrier at MKE? Air Canda isn't longhaul because MKE-Toronto is only a 90 minute flight away.

My guesses:
1)Icelandair (hey they went to MCI)
2)RyanAir
3)Wow
4)Norwegian (I know they already do occasional charters)

I haven't seen any other article confirming this has received the go-ahead and received approval. All the article below says is that Able has proposed it, unless you have another source.

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/ch ... ll-airport

Icelandair or WOW could be possible and lots of people thought Norwegian would chose MKE over ORD for a while, but that didn't happen. Nowadays, Norwegian is in financial trouble and might not survive much longer to see a new International Terminal. Ryanair currently doesn't fly to the U.S. and I don't know that MKE would be at the top of the wish list for them IF and when they do it.

I'd guess LGW on Norwegian, or Condor to FRA. Neither would be daily either.

Air India.

Because many Indians live in the northern suburbs now and MKE is not as bad as ORD during the rush hour.

(Kidding.)

I’d guess none with ORD just down the road.

Condor has been interested but state has never wanted to do anything in terms of revenue guarantees/incentives

jpetekyxmd80 wrote:

Condor has been interested but state has never wanted to do anything in terms of revenue guarantees/incentives

I was guessing, but familial ties and bratwurst freight, 2x / week like Phoenix seems doable.

I'd say Thomas Cook / Condor or EuroWings.

For certain it won't be Ryanair, the largest thing they fly is the 737-800 which doesn't have the range to make it all the way from Europe.

rj777 wrote:

With MKE's new international terminal only a couple years away (Demolition of E to begin sometime this year and 1st phase beginning next year with completion slated for 2020), any guesses or rumors, etc. on who will be the 1st international long haul carrier at MKE? Air Canda isn't longhaul because MKE-Toronto is only a 90 minute flight away.

My guesses:
1)Icelandair (hey they went to MCI)
2)RyanAir
3)Wow
4)Norwegian (I know they already do occasional charters)

Ryanair, a snowballs chance! Aer Lingus in the other hand.....

eicvd wrote:

rj777 wrote:

With MKE's new international terminal only a couple years away (Demolition of E to begin sometime this year and 1st phase beginning next year with completion slated for 2020), any guesses or rumors, etc. on who will be the 1st international long haul carrier at MKE? Air Canda isn't longhaul because MKE-Toronto is only a 90 minute flight away.

My guesses:
1)Icelandair (hey they went to MCI)
2)RyanAir
3)Wow
4)Norwegian (I know they already do occasional charters)

Ryanair, a snowballs chance! Aer Lingus in the other hand.....

MKE with a catchment population of around 1.5 - 2 million and no transatlantic service as yet, might be an opportunity for EI with an A321LR. However, I don't think it will be at the top of their shortlist of potential new North American destinations given that Milwaukee/Wisconsin is probably not a significant tourist destination for Europeans, doesn't have a particularly big Irish ethnic population to generate VFR traffic and has a fairly harsh winter climate. So, although it might be possible to fill 12 J seats on an A321 with business travellers to/from Europe, EI would probably mainly have to rely on US originating traffic to fill their Y seats which would require a lot of investment on developing their brand recognition in that region. As EI have a history of being cautious in their choice of new routes these considerations may make MKE unattractive to them but with 8-12 A321s about to come into the fleet perhaps we will see them becoming a little more adventurous!

I’m 99% sure EI sponsor some sort of Irish festival in Milwaukee.

stratocruiser wrote:

eicvd wrote:

rj777 wrote:

With MKE's new international terminal only a couple years away (Demolition of E to begin sometime this year and 1st phase beginning next year with completion slated for 2020), any guesses or rumors, etc. on who will be the 1st international long haul carrier at MKE? Air Canda isn't longhaul because MKE-Toronto is only a 90 minute flight away.

My guesses:
1)Icelandair (hey they went to MCI)
2)RyanAir
3)Wow
4)Norwegian (I know they already do occasional charters)

Ryanair, a snowballs chance! Aer Lingus in the other hand.....

MKE with a catchment population of around 1.5 - 2 million and no transatlantic service as yet, might be an opportunity for EI with an A321LR. However, I don't think it will be at the top of their shortlist of potential new North American destinations given that Milwaukee/Wisconsin is probably not a significant tourist destination for Europeans, doesn't have a particularly big Irish ethnic population to generate VFR traffic and has a fairly harsh winter climate. So, although it might be possible to fill 12 J seats on an A321 with business travellers to/from Europe, EI would probably mainly have to rely on US originating traffic to fill their Y seats which would require a lot of investment on developing their brand recognition in that region. As EI have a history of being cautious in their choice of new routes these considerations may make MKE unattractive to them but with 8-12 A321s about to come into the fleet perhaps we will see them becoming a little more adventurous!

Man, that sure stopped them from going to Hartford.

eicvd wrote:

I’m 99% sure EI sponsor some sort of Irish festival in Milwaukee.

You are correct EI sponsors Milwaukee Irish Fest. https://irishfest.com/Sponsor.htm

I could see either EI with the A321LR or Condor starting flights to KMKE in the future. The officials in Milwaukee need to get going and get the new international building built sooner rather than later. They sure seem to be taking their time.

stlgph wrote:

stratocruiser wrote:

eicvd wrote:

Ryanair, a snowballs chance! Aer Lingus in the other hand.....

MKE with a catchment population of around 1.5 - 2 million and no transatlantic service as yet, might be an opportunity for EI with an A321LR. However, I don't think it will be at the top of their shortlist of potential new North American destinations given that Milwaukee/Wisconsin is probably not a significant tourist destination for Europeans, doesn't have a particularly big Irish ethnic population to generate VFR traffic and has a fairly harsh winter climate. So, although it might be possible to fill 12 J seats on an A321 with business travellers to/from Europe, EI would probably mainly have to rely on US originating traffic to fill their Y seats which would require a lot of investment on developing their brand recognition in that region. As EI have a history of being cautious in their choice of new routes these considerations may make MKE unattractive to them but with 8-12 A321s about to come into the fleet perhaps we will see them becoming a little more adventurous!

Man, that sure stopped them from going to Hartford.

I'd expect the Hartford area to have more than a small Irish population. Also, it's closer, which means shorter stage length and thus less airplane used.

MKE22 wrote:

rj777 wrote:

With MKE's new international terminal only a couple years away (Demolition of E to begin sometime this year and 1st phase beginning next year with completion slated for 2020), any guesses or rumors, etc. on who will be the 1st international long haul carrier at MKE? Air Canda isn't longhaul because MKE-Toronto is only a 90 minute flight away.

My guesses:
1)Icelandair (hey they went to MCI)
2)RyanAir
3)Wow
4)Norwegian (I know they already do occasional charters)

I haven't seen any other article confirming this has received the go-ahead and received approval. All the article below says is that Able has proposed it, unless you have another source.

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/ch ... ll-airport

Icelandair or WOW could be possible and lots of people thought Norwegian would chose MKE over ORD for a while, but that didn't happen. Nowadays, Norwegian is in financial trouble and might not survive much longer to see a new International Terminal. Ryanair currently doesn't fly to the U.S. and I don't know that MKE would be at the top of the wish list for them IF and when they do it.

Approved 2018 MKE Budget:
http://county.milwaukee.gov/ImageLibrar ... irport.pdf

flyguy84 wrote:

I’d guess none with ORD just down the road.

I don't think the county would have approved $30 million for a new terminal if they didn't have someone in mind! Plus if it's a country with US pre-clearance they can go right to one of the other concourses until the new one is ready.

A long shot, but maybe DL to AMS or CDG similar to what they have done in PIT and IND.

I'm fairly certain there was a thread not that long ago speculating EI's potential arrival in MKE based on that EI sponsored Irish Festival in Milwaukee. I would keep EI on the table. The only reason I would take DL to AMS/CDG off is because they do it at ORD.

rj777 wrote:

MKE22 wrote:

rj777 wrote:

With MKE's new international terminal only a couple years away (Demolition of E to begin sometime this year and 1st phase beginning next year with completion slated for 2020), any guesses or rumors, etc. on who will be the 1st international long haul carrier at MKE? Air Canda isn't longhaul because MKE-Toronto is only a 90 minute flight away.

My guesses:
1)Icelandair (hey they went to MCI)
2)RyanAir
3)Wow
4)Norwegian (I know they already do occasional charters)

I haven't seen any other article confirming this has received the go-ahead and received approval. All the article below says is that Able has proposed it, unless you have another source.

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/ch ... ll-airport

Icelandair or WOW could be possible and lots of people thought Norwegian would chose MKE over ORD for a while, but that didn't happen. Nowadays, Norwegian is in financial trouble and might not survive much longer to see a new International Terminal. Ryanair currently doesn't fly to the U.S. and I don't know that MKE would be at the top of the wish list for them IF and when they do it.

Approved 2018 MKE Budget:
http://county.milwaukee.gov/ImageLibrar ... irport.pdf

flyguy84 wrote:

I’d guess none with ORD just down the road.

I don't think the county would have approved $30 million for a new terminal if they didn't have someone in mind! Plus if it's a country with US pre-clearance they can go right to one of the other concourses until the new one is ready.

Thank you, wasn't able to find it. Also I agree, MKE wouldn't spend money on something another airline hasn't expressed some interest in at some point. The current IAT is... out dated to put it nicely. It won't specifically help attract airlines if facilities are what's holding an airline back. I forgot about EI and Condor, I think one of those two would be a good get for MKE and a strong mutual fit.

bfitzflyer wrote:

A long shot, but maybe DL to AMS or CDG similar to what they have done in PIT and IND.

no

Icelandair or Wow are real possibilities. Anything else is a long shot.

I don't really see the logic for anything other than an occasional FI or similar: as mentioned, ORD is down the road and well connected to the world in all directions, there is little by way of attraction to tourism, and the business case is weak, at best. A good comparison to give some allochthonous perspective might be cities of comparable size and economic clout, but lacking inter-continental tourism or capital status, within the EU (e.g. Marseille, Genoa, Leipzig, Norcastle, Goteborg... spring to mind). None have inter-continental service of the type comparable to what is under discussion here. Of course, if there are radical restructuring of the aviation industry, anything is possible... but one shouldn't hold one's breath.

Anyone know the TATL PDEW to/from MKE? I'd guess a lot of it gets siphoned to ORD...

Quick estimate:

• Annual TATL seats for 2018 is ~107mn (U.S. and Canada to Europe).
• MKE metro is ~.5% of U.S./Canada population.
• MKE metro outbound is ~.5% of U.S./Canada outbound flow and ~.2% of inbound flow: ~.35% of total TATL PDEW.
• Assuming 88% LF on 2018 TATL market, MKE's TATL PDEW would be ~450pax.

If that's the ballpark figure, then WOW/Iceland/Norwegian could probably fill an A321LR or two bound for a hub at KEF/DUB/LGW, through which traffic to the rest of Europe would flow.

OTOH, most traffic would be one-stop via a hub and many Milwaukee folks would drive to ORD for nonstop service or transfer at ORD on UA/AA commuter flights.

OTOOH, adding including all of Wisconsin within ~2hrs of MKE (MSN, GRB, and ATW) adds another ~2mn folks. Additionally, cheap fares would attract low-yield pax from northern suburbs of Chicago.

So I think TATL is likely doable for an LCC or two from MKE, probably with government incentives for the first-mover, who'd be taking a risk.

Nobody has brought up Emirates.

MKE is in a tough spot compared to other mid-size midwestern cities because ORD is just two hours away, and is a very well connected and price competitive hub. Its a major hub for two US3 airlines and WN runs their biggest operation at MDW just to the south. You see this impact on the international side as well. ORD-India/China can be flown for dirt cheap fares, and its not that hard to book a round trip ticket to Europe for less than 800 bucks.

I suppose you could see a seasonal service on Icelandair or Aer Lingus, but don't underestimate the impact of ORD being so close, as well as the impact of ORD's new terminal expansions will have.

And unlike a city like Indianapolis, the Milwaukee region isn't really seeing a significant enough of population growth to expect major growth either.

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:

stlgph wrote:

stratocruiser wrote:

MKE with a catchment population of around 1.5 - 2 million and no transatlantic service as yet, might be an opportunity for EI with an A321LR. However, I don't think it will be at the top of their shortlist of potential new North American destinations given that Milwaukee/Wisconsin is probably not a significant tourist destination for Europeans, doesn't have a particularly big Irish ethnic population to generate VFR traffic and has a fairly harsh winter climate. So, although it might be possible to fill 12 J seats on an A321 with business travellers to/from Europe, EI would probably mainly have to rely on US originating traffic to fill their Y seats which would require a lot of investment on developing their brand recognition in that region. As EI have a history of being cautious in their choice of new routes these considerations may make MKE unattractive to them but with 8-12 A321s about to come into the fleet perhaps we will see them becoming a little more adventurous!

Man, that sure stopped them from going to Hartford.

I'd expect the Hartford area to have more than a small Irish population. Also, it's closer, which means shorter stage length and thus less airplane used.

I believe that HFD gave EI incentive $ as well. Not that MKE wouldn’t do it as well but another reason why EI is flying to HFD.

Didn't Condor operate 757 charters into MKE a number of years ago? I know they flew flights for Apple Vacations to tropical destinations, but I think I also recall charters to Germany even further back.

Baltimore is "just down the road" from Dulles and it seems to be doing o.k.

stlgph wrote:

Baltimore is "just down the road" from Dulles and it seems to be doing o.k.

That's a very different situation since it's known as Baltimore-Washington airport. It's the low-cost airport for the Washington DC region. Milwaukee is very different in this. It may be fairly close to Chicago, but it's not a Chicago airport. Besides, Chicago already has Midway as it's LCC airport. Milwaukee airport serves just the city of Milwaukee and not much else. And let's be honest, it's not a significantly important city. Neither is Baltimore, but that airport also serves Washington which is an important city.

PatrickZ80 wrote:

stlgph wrote:

Baltimore is "just down the road" from Dulles and it seems to be doing o.k.

That's a very different situation since it's known as Baltimore-Washington airport. It's the low-cost airport for the Washington DC region. Milwaukee is very different in this. It may be fairly close to Chicago, but it's not a Chicago airport. Besides, Chicago already has Midway as it's LCC airport. Milwaukee airport serves just the city of Milwaukee and not much else. And let's be honest, it's not a significantly important city. Neither is Baltimore, but that airport also serves Washington which is an important city.

Um, dude. No. Just....no.

As a Chicago resident who works weekends in Milwaukee let me add my two cents. I’ve used MKE once, and that was during the January ‘14 polar vortex, when my ATL-MDW flight was cancelled and they honored my ticket for a flight to MKE. Approximately 80 passengers on the MKE flight were from the MDW flight.

I’m not sure what destinations in Wisconsin would attract European tourists. Those that do come may be better served using Condor’s service to MSP, which may beclose enough to Central and NW Wisconsin. I’d be curious to watch WOW and Icelandair’s results in Cleveland to gauge whether they can make MKE work.

Whoever said Emirates, that is unlikely. For starters Milwaukee and it’s surroundings don’t send a ton of traffic to South Asia, unlike its neighbor to the South, Chicago. Further, Emirates is likely to increase frequencies and when facilities permit upguage ORD before they would fly to a relatively small city just up the road.

Milwaukee is less likely to benefit from spillover the way Baltimore does from DC for a few reasons: first and foremost Milwaukee and Chicago are about 90 miles apart, whereas Baltimore and DC are about 30-40, second Unless you live well North of Lake-Cook Road you drive right by O’Hare on your way to Milwaukee, and third unlike DC there is a noticeable gap in the conurbation between Chicago and Milwaukee, which is not the case for the Beltway, so there’s a more defined service area. Drive I-94 through Kenosha and Racine Counties and you’ll know what I mean (also if you do that assume there will be a speed trap on the other side of every overpass).

Milwaukee has been benefiting from a spillover from the northern and northwestern Chicago suburbs for years.

Flighty wrote:

Nobody has brought up Emirates.

Because that's not going to happen in a million years.

I'd guess Icelandair would be a safe bet if international service comes to Milwaukee. But I think ORD being down the road hurts this airport. Buddy of mine who lives in Kohler will make the drive to ORD with the family because the cost of tickets are cheaper. So it does happen.

rj777 wrote:

flyguy84 wrote:

I’d guess none with ORD just down the road.

I don't think the county would have approved $30 million for a new terminal if they didn't have someone in mind! Plus if it's a country with US pre-clearance they can go right to one of the other concourses until the new one is ready.

$30 million is really not a lot. Plenty of potential in the Caribbean and Mexico too besides long haul.
Having said that, the usual suspects: EI, FI, WW, DY.

stlgph wrote:

PatrickZ80 wrote:

stlgph wrote:

Baltimore is "just down the road" from Dulles and it seems to be doing o.k.

That's a very different situation since it's known as Baltimore-Washington airport. It's the low-cost airport for the Washington DC region. Milwaukee is very different in this. It may be fairly close to Chicago, but it's not a Chicago airport. Besides, Chicago already has Midway as it's LCC airport. Milwaukee airport serves just the city of Milwaukee and not much else. And let's be honest, it's not a significantly important city. Neither is Baltimore, but that airport also serves Washington which is an important city.

Um, dude. No. Just....no.

It might help your argument if you included some educated, reasoned input instead of sounding like a braindead teenage girl.

Emirates and Ryanair? Is this the DTW thread?

Flighty wrote:

Nobody has brought up Emirates.

You're right -- and Chris Abele, the county executive, even said "We can land the largest planes on the planet here at Mitchell Airport!" (excitement added)

chidino wrote:

Flighty wrote:

Nobody has brought up Emirates.

You're right -- and Chris Abele, the county executive, even said "We can land the largest planes on the planet here at Mitchell Airport!" (excitement added)

Sure, as a diversion airport for ORD. The AI 77W has landed at MKE a couples times and waited for skies to clear 90 miles south.

777PHX wrote:

stlgph wrote:

PatrickZ80 wrote:

That's a very different situation since it's known as Baltimore-Washington airport. It's the low-cost airport for the Washington DC region. Milwaukee is very different in this. It may be fairly close to Chicago, but it's not a Chicago airport. Besides, Chicago already has Midway as it's LCC airport. Milwaukee airport serves just the city of Milwaukee and not much else. And let's be honest, it's not a significantly important city. Neither is Baltimore, but that airport also serves Washington which is an important city.

Um, dude. No. Just....no.

It might help your argument if you included some educated, reasoned input instead of sounding like a braindead teenage girl.

Hilarious dude. That post was completely asinine lit up in Christmas colors yet I'm apparently brain dead.

Good one.

stlgph wrote:

777PHX wrote:

stlgph wrote:

Um, dude. No. Just....no.

It might help your argument if you included some educated, reasoned input instead of sounding like a braindead teenage girl.

Hilarious dude. That post was completely asinine lit up in Christmas colors yet I'm apparently brain dead.

Good one.

Why don't you clue the rest of us in. He laid out his thoughts on the subject and all you responded with was "Um, dude. No. Just....no.". Which has zero explanation of why you apparently disagree.

Not trying to bring MKE down, but ORD has 45 different airlines that have international destinations from the airport. ORD isn't JFK or LAX when it comes to international traffic, but its the primary international gateway in the Midwest, and has been so for decades.

If MKE can't attract FI or DY with subsidies in a strong economy like we have now, I think its a tough sell for MKE as a whole.

Baltimore has 800,000 more people in its metro, and as mentioned, is much more integrated with DC than Milwaukee is with Chicago. The Baltimore metro has a median income of 78k, Milwaukee's median income is 58k.

And even then, BWI has service to LHR, KEF, and seasonal FRA. So its not like airlines are bending over backwards to serve the airport.

I'm going to say DY to LGW 3 weekly.

Sorry, however I do not see long haul in MKE's future. As for International - yes; I can see the new MKE terminal serving Carribean destinations. Perhaps DL will offer service to Cancun.

CHI787ORD wrote:

chidino wrote:

Flighty wrote:

Nobody has brought up Emirates.

You're right -- and Chris Abele, the county executive, even said "We can land the largest planes on the planet here at Mitchell Airport!" (excitement added)

Sure, as a diversion airport for ORD. The AI 77W has landed at MKE a couples times and waited for skies to clear 90 miles south.

Understood and agree. I thought my sarcasm would be evident with the "excitement added" thing, but what I type isn't always my thought. Sorry.

FA9295 wrote:

Flighty wrote:

Nobody has brought up Emirates.

Because that's not going to happen in a million years.

I think you give Emirates too much credit. I would give them less! MKE is a former hub airport! An astonishing opportunity compared to many of the tin pot airports they go to. Going back a few years no doubt MKE had a bigger economy than Dubai. People in Dubai would have been amazed to go to a large city such as Milwaukee. When would that be, 1995? Granted, Dubai seems to have pulled ahead...

eicvd wrote:

Ryanair, a snowballs chance! Aer Lingus in the other hand.....

Well...we did just have an EI A330 divert to MKE tonight (also had one a few weeks back)!

If we're being serious though, I could see Wow air or Icelandair coming here, given that they're starting service at similar cities like CLE and MCI (what European tourists go there either?). But I don't think they would need a new terminal in order to come here, they could make it work now if they wanted to. Maybe Volaris will add a flight to MEX? The winter service from MKE to Mexico/Caribbean seems to be strong so maybe some flights can be added there as well.

Matt6461 wrote:

Anyone know the TATL PDEW to/from MKE? I'd guess a lot of it gets siphoned to ORD...

Quick estimate:

• Annual TATL seats for 2018 is ~107mn (U.S. and Canada to Europe).
• MKE metro is ~.5% of U.S./Canada population.
• MKE metro outbound is ~.5% of U.S./Canada outbound flow and ~.2% of inbound flow: ~.35% of total TATL PDEW.
• Assuming 88% LF on 2018 TATL market, MKE's TATL PDEW would be ~450pax.

If that's the ballpark figure, then WOW/Iceland/Norwegian could probably fill an A321LR or two bound for a hub at KEF/DUB/LGW, through which traffic to the rest of Europe would flow.

OTOH, most traffic would be one-stop via a hub and many Milwaukee folks would drive to ORD for nonstop service or transfer at ORD on UA/AA commuter flights.

OTOOH, adding including all of Wisconsin within ~2hrs of MKE (MSN, GRB, and ATW) adds another ~2mn folks. Additionally, cheap fares would attract low-yield pax from northern suburbs of Chicago.

So I think TATL is likely doable for an LCC or two from MKE, probably with government incentives for the first-mover, who'd be taking a risk.

Nope, the number is currently much lower than that, due to MKE bleeding pax to ORD.

Here is a list of largest unserved markets from Europe: http://www.anna.aero/2017/09/13/kansas- ... om-europe/

and MKE isn't even on that list but cities like Tulsa, Des Moines, and El Paso are, so their TATL PDEW is anyones guess. The lack of or weak service to JFK, PHL, and EWR goes to show that there aren't that many people connecting from MKE to Europe.

eicvd wrote:

I’m 99% sure EI sponsor some sort of Irish festival in Milwaukee.

I don't think that really affects much in the grand scheme of things

Piedmont767201 wrote:

Sorry, however I do not see long haul in MKE's future. As for International - yes; I can see the new MKE terminal serving Carribean destinations. Perhaps DL will offer service to Cancun.

DL already operates MKE-CUN on a seasonal basis.

hz747300 wrote:

jpetekyxmd80 wrote:

Condor has been interested but state has never wanted to do anything in terms of revenue guarantees/incentives

I was guessing, but familial ties and bratwurst freight, 2x / week like Phoenix seems doable.

bratwurst freight? you aren't serious, are you?