Absolutely horrible the way this woman was treated. The measly “compensation” is just a slap in the face. 20,000 miles? That’s worth about $240. The least that should have been done is a full-refund. Just goes to show that nobody cares anymore.

http://www.newsweek.com/delta-passenger ... ses-900330

I am curious what Deltas findings are on this situation. They claim it differs from the customers. Now I am surprised they did not have a wheelchair available for her. Isn't that something the customer can request when purchasing the ticket? And would she not have her own wheel chair if the airline cant provide one?

Aren't the wheel chair handlers usually a third party company that handles all airlines' wheel chair passengers? I'm pretty sure they are not employees of Delta Air Lines? In general, I find that customers think that every airport employee they come in contact with is employed by the airline they happen to be flying on. I've even seen people blame TSA gaffes on airlines. Regardless, poor handling of the situation.

TransWorldOne wrote:

Aren't the wheel chair handlers usually a third party company that handles all airlines' wheel chair passengers? I'm pretty sure they are not employees of Delta Air Lines? In general, I find that customers think that every airport employee they come in contact with is employed by the airline they happen to be flying on. I've even seen people blame TSA gaffes on airlines. Regardless, poor handling of the situation.

It does appear that the actual act was committed by a “red coat”. I’m assuming this is the contracted wheelchair handler agency at ATL? Anyways, the poor woman was apparently also told to “shut the f*ck up” when she started crying.

But regardless, even if it wasn’t a Delta employee that told her that and who tied her in with a towel, Delta contracted them, so they have to take responsibility. Same idea as United taking responsibility for the Dr. Dao incident, the dog getting shipped to Japan by mistake, etc.

TransWorldOne wrote:

Aren't the wheel chair handlers usually a third party company that handles all airlines' wheel chair passengers? I'm pretty sure they are not employees of Delta Air Lines?

My first thought as well. Even if this was the work of say G2 or AirServe or another contractor UA has taught us a la Dr. Dao that those details aren't heard by the general public. Will be interesting to see DL's response.

ual763 wrote:

TransWorldOne wrote:

Aren't the wheel chair handlers usually a third party company that handles all airlines' wheel chair passengers? I'm pretty sure they are not employees of Delta Air Lines? In general, I find that customers think that every airport employee they come in contact with is employed by the airline they happen to be flying on. I've even seen people blame TSA gaffes on airlines. Regardless, poor handling of the situation.

It does appear that the actual act was committed by a “red coat”. I’m assuming this is the contracted wheelchair handler agency at ATL? Anyways, the poor woman was apparently also told to “shut the f*ck up” when she started crying.

But regardless, even if it wasn’t a Delta employee that told her that and who tied her in with a towel, Delta contracted them, so they have to take responsibility. Same idea as United taking responsibility for the Dr. Dao incident, the dog getting shipped to Japan by mistake, etc.

since you brought up Dao, that was all caught on video, no defending that. What you included was a picture. For all we know, the family could have tied that around the old lady for dramatic purposes.

ual763 wrote:

TransWorldOne wrote:

Aren't the wheel chair handlers usually a third party company that handles all airlines' wheel chair passengers? I'm pretty sure they are not employees of Delta Air Lines? In general, I find that customers think that every airport employee they come in contact with is employed by the airline they happen to be flying on. I've even seen people blame TSA gaffes on airlines. Regardless, poor handling of the situation.

It does appear that the actual act was committed by a “red coat”. I’m assuming this is the contracted wheelchair handler agency at ATL? Anyways, the poor woman was apparently also told to “shut the f*ck up” when she started crying.

But regardless, even if it wasn’t a Delta employee that told her that and who tied her in with a towel, Delta contracted them, so they have to take responsibility. Same idea as United taking responsibility for the Dr. Dao incident, the dog getting shipped to Japan by mistake, etc.

Well at Delta specifically, a "red coat" actually has a pretty special meaning and is a Delta customer service employee who is supposed to have additional training in complaint resolution and is supposed to be a highly visible person to go to if you need extra assistance or need to escalate a situation either due to poor service or the employee isn't familiar with what you need done. A lot of airport wheelchair vendor employees seem to wear a red or black uniform though so this could still easily be a vendor employee that just happened to be identified by the red.

http://www.startribune.com/delta-brings ... /48635187/

ual763 wrote:

Just goes to show that nobody cares anymore.

I'm sure you'd agree, especially given the nightmare of a year that your preferred carrier endured in 2017, that across essentially all major carriers for every one of these incidents you have hundreds that are handled with professionalism and in some cases truly over the top compassion. Situations like this one, regardless of the details or who is to blame, are fortunately uncommon.

Unless Delta (and it's not going to matter to whom wheelchair services are contracted) has a pretty good story about how this woman, in the absence of being tied, was a hazard to herself or others, Delta is going to be writing a check with some $000,000

winginit wrote:

ual763 wrote:

Just goes to show that nobody cares anymore.

I'm sure you'd agree, especially given the nightmare of a year that your preferred carrier endured in 2017, that across essentially all major carriers for every one of these incidents you have hundreds that are handled with professionalism and in some cases truly over the top compassion. Situations like this one, regardless of the details or who is to blame, are fortunately uncommon.

I’m referring to the corporate response, of publicly trying to accuse the customer of lying, yet refusing to offer up their evidence of what they claim happened.

ual763 wrote:

winginit wrote:

ual763 wrote:

Just goes to show that nobody cares anymore.

I'm sure you'd agree, especially given the nightmare of a year that your preferred carrier endured in 2017, that across essentially all major carriers for every one of these incidents you have hundreds that are handled with professionalism and in some cases truly over the top compassion. Situations like this one, regardless of the details or who is to blame, are fortunately uncommon.

I’m referring to the corporate response, of publicly trying to accuse the customer of lying.

Respectfully, I think many would agree that it's simply too early and we have too few details to overwhelmingly confirm that the customer and her family's account of the incident were the absolute reality. Do you disagree?

Also, let's be clear as to what Delta said, which was:

A Delta Airlines spokesperson told Newsweek that while the company was "disappointed" that Saliagas did not have a "satisfying travel experience" its "findings" on the incident did "not align" with hers.

Do we have reason to believe that there isn't another perfectly valid side to this story, and there very often is?

Additionally, the woman's son said the below, which isn't something I think I would say if I'd just seen my disabled mother forcibly tied to a chair:

“I definitely know that they’re a good airline, I’m not doubting that at all, but in this specific situation, there was no courtesy, no respect,”

Finally, you'll note that the family is merely pushing for a 'policy change' and haven't mentioned any sort of legal repercussions, which again would be in my mind staggering if the events truly unfolded as they said they did (which would likely be a shoe-in for damages).

Here’s my take on the situation:

I). The wheelchair “pusher” is a subcontracted position.

II). In most cases, this employee is compensated at or slightly above minimum wage.

III). These contractors often employ “flunkies”, for lack of a better term.

IV). Delta bears the responsibility for training these subcontractors and ensuring proper compliance with ADA accommodation standards.

V). Delta generally doesn’t do a good job with training, in all departments, period, end of story. Given the fact that a 717 recently initiated a takeoff roll with only one engine running at DTW, I’m certain their subcontractors in Atlanta, based off of Delta’s “Train the Trainer” ( aka “Pass the Buck”) philosophy have no idea what they’re doing.

I wonder who took the photo of the woman..

Do we have any truly independent verification of what happened here? People are very quick to report as fact that the employee told the woman to "shut the f____ up". But has anyone without a vested interest verified that this did happen? I'm not saying that it didn't, but people in stressed situations can make claims that they genuinely believe to be true but aren't and the press are very quick to jump on them as it makes good copy.

I'm just concerned that, especially in the US, it's becoming a national sport to bad mouth airlines. This more so as it gives people their 15 minutes of fame that so many crave.

Dao + Video = Guilt
MS + No Video = “Doesn’t match our findings”

jumbojet wrote:

ual763 wrote:

TransWorldOne wrote:

Aren't the wheel chair handlers usually a third party company that handles all airlines' wheel chair passengers? I'm pretty sure they are not employees of Delta Air Lines? In general, I find that customers think that every airport employee they come in contact with is employed by the airline they happen to be flying on. I've even seen people blame TSA gaffes on airlines. Regardless, poor handling of the situation.

It does appear that the actual act was committed by a “red coat”. I’m assuming this is the contracted wheelchair handler agency at ATL? Anyways, the poor woman was apparently also told to “shut the f*ck up” when she started crying.

But regardless, even if it wasn’t a Delta employee that told her that and who tied her in with a towel, Delta contracted them, so they have to take responsibility. Same idea as United taking responsibility for the Dr. Dao incident, the dog getting shipped to Japan by mistake, etc.

since you brought up Dao, that was all caught on video, no defending that. What you included was a picture. For all we know, the family could have tied that around the old lady for dramatic purposes.

I was waiting for your ridiculously biased answer, and you didn’t disappoint!!!!!

You absolutely REEMED UAL over Dao and dog incidents, yet when it’s Delts with this poor woman or the dog they shipped the wrong way for 2 days, you suggest “there is probably more to the story”. But but but, there is video of Dao! We know the whole story! Except what you see on that video isn’t the whole story. It doesn’t show the incident from beginning to end. It doesn’t show the details of Dao allegedly spitting in the cops face. It DOES show that no UAL employee laid a hand on him. Zero video of the poor dog that passed in the overhead. But that didn’t matter to you because it wasn’t Delta. But NOW there must be more to the story.

For the record, I believe there probably IS more to the story. I can’t imagine a Delta employees saying “shut the f*ck up” to any customer”. But you should be consistent with your arguments. But you won’t. Ever.

I was on a Delta flight where a handicapped persons legs were tied to their seat it really amazed me.

ADA lawyers are going to be lined up to meet with this lady, Delta will fund her trips abroad for quite some time. They'll lose this.

I had to log in to post because these stories anger me. Not at the airlines, but at the customers.

My wife is disabled, with a brain injury from being hit by a drunk driver 21 years ago. She has virtually no mobility on her own and can't speak (but can communicate), but we were able to travel by plane a few times, including going to Bermuda on USAir back in 2002.

In no way would I ever expect any airline employee to know my wife's limitations or expect them to help her in any significant way. I wheeled her on to the plane in her wheelchair in preboarding. We always fly first class just for the added space and consideration. I disassembled the wheelchair and the flight attendant put it in the closet. I transferred her to her seat. They were very kind offering to help, but no way could they and I would never expect them to. All I asked was that they didn't mind me fussing when needed so close to the galley and cockpit. In Bermuda, the only thing ground services did was we had to put her into a airplane chair and have her carried up the stairs (and down on arrival).

When you're disabled, it's your and your family's responsibility, not the airlines'. I'm all for travelling, but disabled people need to travel with a competent aide who will do everything and be an advocate. Carry your own chair, don't expect airline or airport staff to do stuff. That's not reasonable.

Rant off.

Looking at the picture, I can't think of anywhere in the Atlanta airport that would be. Any guesses? The tile doesn't look familiar nor the background. At least the son wasn't going off like most people were.

DC10LAXJFK wrote:

I had to log in to post because these stories anger me. Not at the airlines, but at the customers.

My wife is disabled, with a brain injury from being hit by a drunk driver 21 years ago. She has virtually no mobility on her own and can't speak (but can communicate), but we were able to travel by plane a few times, including going to Bermuda on USAir back in 2002.

In no way would I ever expect any airline employee to know my wife's limitations or expect them to help her in any significant way. I wheeled her on to the plane in her wheelchair in preboarding. We always fly first class just for the added space and consideration. I disassembled the wheelchair and the flight attendant put it in the closet. I transferred her to her seat. They were very kind offering to help, but no way could they and I would never expect them to. All I asked was that they didn't mind me fussing when needed so close to the galley and cockpit. In Bermuda, the only thing ground services did was we had to put her into a airplane chair and have her carried up the stairs (and down on arrival).

When you're disabled, it's your and your family's responsibility, not the airlines'. I'm all for travelling, but disabled people need to travel with a competent aide who will do everything and be an advocate. Carry your own chair, don't expect airline or airport staff to do stuff. That's not reasonable.

Rant off.

Devils advocate would say (as they have in other threads) that the airline shouldn’t offer the service if they don’t want to be responsible/accountable.

Having said that, I am absolutely humbled in your gracious and mature approach to caring for your wife and trying not to impact others. There’s nothing wrong with accepting help, but there’s also nothing wrong with trying to minimize the impact on others.

Absolute respect.

One more time the US3 clarifying what they think of their customers. "Isolated incidents", so many, some will say...

burnsie28 wrote:

Looking at the picture, I can't think of anywhere in the Atlanta airport that would be. Any guesses? The tile doesn't look familiar nor the background. At least the son wasn't going off like most people were.

I believe it is Amsterdam Schiphol

ual763 wrote:

burnsie28 wrote:

Looking at the picture, I can't think of anywhere in the Atlanta airport that would be. Any guesses? The tile doesn't look familiar nor the background. At least the son wasn't going off like most people were.

I believe it is Amsterdam Schiphol

This is AMS. In AMS, and in most (all?) European countries, per EU law, the wheelchair service is contracted by the airport, not the airlines. All airlines use the airport subcontractor without much choice. And agree with others here, I think we're too quick to jump to conclusions, especially since all of this information is second hand (from the son), not from the two individuals traveling. It would appear the blanket is used for extra support, not with an intention to hurt the passenger. Also, if it's the father/husband taking the picture, if that was my wife or mother, I wouldn't be spending time taking a picture if she's in pain, I'd be helping her take the blanket off it was in fact hurting her.

ual763 wrote:

burnsie28 wrote:

Looking at the picture, I can't think of anywhere in the Atlanta airport that would be. Any guesses? The tile doesn't look familiar nor the background. At least the son wasn't going off like most people were.

I believe it is Amsterdam Schiphol

Well that changes things a bit... Isn't KLM the ground handler there?

This happened at AMS airport where KLM handles Delta (special assistance contracted by KLM). Not to take away from Delta’s responsibility.

RetiredNWA wrote:

V). Delta generally doesn’t do a good job with training, in all departments, period, end of story. Given the fact that a 717 recently initiated a takeoff roll with only one engine running at DTW, I’m certain their subcontractors in Atlanta, based off of Delta’s “Train the Trainer” ( aka “Pass the Buck”) philosophy have no idea what they’re doing.

I went through training programs for four different airlines in the early 2000s. DL's was by far the best. UA's was the worst.

Please provide a link to the (alleged) takeoff roll with one engine report. I'd love to read it. Even though it has nothing to do with the topic.

The blanket is tied under her arms yet her bruises are on her arms from the blanket being tied to tight??

RDUDDJI wrote:

ual763 wrote:

burnsie28 wrote:

Looking at the picture, I can't think of anywhere in the Atlanta airport that would be. Any guesses? The tile doesn't look familiar nor the background. At least the son wasn't going off like most people were.

I believe it is Amsterdam Schiphol

Well that changes things a bit... Isn't KLM the ground handler there?

Not sure, but if the incident happened on the ground in ATL, KLM wouldn't have had anything to do with that. Perhaps they just took the photo once they got to AMS; that seems more likely to me since the blanket is clearly not tied around her arms in the photo, although the family says it was.

PlanesNTrains wrote:

DC10LAXJFK wrote:
...
Devils advocate would say (as they have in other threads) that the airline shouldn’t offer the service if they don’t want to be responsible/accountable.

Having said that, I am absolutely humbled in your gracious and mature approach to caring for your wife and trying not to impact others. There’s nothing wrong with accepting help, but there’s also nothing wrong with trying to minimize the impact on others.

Absolute respect.

I second this.

Seriously why would anyone make this up? Just admit you're a delusional fanboy if you wanna take DL's side. But how would you feel if it was YOUR family member there? My guess would be furious.

cokepopper wrote:

This happened at AMS airport where KLM handles Delta (special assistance contracted by KLM). Not to take away from Delta’s responsibility.

Didn't the story say she has yet to fly back to the States? That tends to give it the ATL to AMS flight and that pic was post arrival.

Some of the hilariously biased responses in here are childish and ridiculous. If we can’t handle topics like this, they should just be closed. I am a “fanboy,” as some would say for an airline, but I will never attack others or say that they’re completely wrong without evidence because they don’t love the same airline that I do.

winginit wrote:

TransWorldOne wrote:

Aren't the wheel chair handlers usually a third party company that handles all airlines' wheel chair passengers? I'm pretty sure they are not employees of Delta Air Lines?

My first thought as well. Even if this was the work of say G2 or AirServe or another contractor UA has taught us a la Dr. Dao that those details aren't heard by the general public. Will be interesting to see DL's response.

Varies by airport, but not relevant. DL offers the service but subcontracts its performance; at the very least, DL is ethically responsible - and usually legally as well.

ual763 wrote:

It does appear that the actual act was committed by a “red coat”. I’m assuming this is the contracted wheelchair handler agency at ATL? Anyways, the poor woman was apparently also told to “shut the f*ck up” when she started crying.

Well, if one takes the time to click through to the original story (https://www.wftv.com/news/trending-now/ ... /738089594) it would appear that this actually happened at Schiphol:

When she flew out of Atlanta on April 1 and arrived in Amsterdam, Delta didn’t have a chair with straps, so employees tied her to a regular wheelchair with someone else’s blanket, said her son, Nathan Saliagas.

If it is indeed true that:

bobbymcgee77 wrote:

In AMS, and in most (all?) European countries, per EU law, the wheelchair service is contracted by the airport, not the airlines. All airlines use the airport subcontractor without much choice.

It's not clear to me at all what Delta could have done differently apart from not serving AMS at all.

TransWorldOne wrote:

Aren't the wheel chair handlers usually a third party company that handles all airlines' wheel chair passengers? I'm pretty sure they are not employees of Delta Air Lines? In general, I find that customers think that every airport employee they come in contact with is employed by the airline they happen to be flying on. I've even seen people blame TSA gaffes on airlines. Regardless, poor handling of the situation.

Indeed. It also winds me up when pax come to me as if I have info on their airline!

I remember last December when we were snowed in, an EK pax came up to me. I told him I don’t work for EK. His response was: “don’t give me that sh**. So, I replied: “Does it look like I’m in an EK?” At that point he felt stupid.

klm617 wrote:

I was on a Delta flight where a handicapped persons legs were tied to their seat it really amazed me.

And I am reading a site now where they allow kids to comment without any proof. Knowing you, you’d say they waterboard at Delta.

RetiredNWA wrote:

Here’s my take on the situation:

I). The wheelchair “pusher” is a subcontracted position.

II). In most cases, this employee is compensated at or slightly above minimum wage.

III). These contractors often employ “flunkies”, for lack of a better term.

IV). Delta bears the responsibility for training these subcontractors and ensuring proper compliance with ADA accommodation standards.

V). Delta generally doesn’t do a good job with training, in all departments, period, end of story. Given the fact that a 717 recently initiated a takeoff roll with only one engine running at DTW, I’m certain their subcontractors in Atlanta, based off of Delta’s “Train the Trainer” ( aka “Pass the Buck”) philosophy have no idea what they’re doing.

This is funny coming from someone from NW. no amount of training could put a smile on those sad employees of theirs.

Is it possible at AMS, they do not have a ready supply of chairs with straps and the wait to get one would have been longer than the passenger wanted or could have waited.

And how does one say "shut the fuck up" in Dutch?

WaywardMemphian wrote:

ADA lawyers are going to be lined up to meet with this lady, Delta will fund her trips abroad for quite some time. They'll lose this.

This occurred in Amsterdam, and it sounds like European airports contract this service out. The ADA doesn't apply.

I have already deleted several posts in this thread because users are either posting personal attacks or otherwise acting childishly. Please keep this thread on topic.

Fwiw, the son who is doing the talking is a "CFO" of a "social influencer" company.

WkndWanderer wrote:

ual763 wrote:

TransWorldOne wrote:

Aren't the wheel chair handlers usually a third party company that handles all airlines' wheel chair passengers? I'm pretty sure they are not employees of Delta Air Lines? In general, I find that customers think that every airport employee they come in contact with is employed by the airline they happen to be flying on. I've even seen people blame TSA gaffes on airlines. Regardless, poor handling of the situation.

It does appear that the actual act was committed by a “red coat”. I’m assuming this is the contracted wheelchair handler agency at ATL? Anyways, the poor woman was apparently also told to “shut the f*ck up” when she started crying.

But regardless, even if it wasn’t a Delta employee that told her that and who tied her in with a towel, Delta contracted them, so they have to take responsibility. Same idea as United taking responsibility for the Dr. Dao incident, the dog getting shipped to Japan by mistake, etc.

Well at Delta specifically, a "red coat" actually has a pretty special meaning and is a Delta customer service employee who is supposed to have additional training in complaint resolution and is supposed to be a highly visible person to go to if you need extra assistance or need to escalate a situation either due to poor service or the employee isn't familiar with what you need done. A lot of airport wheelchair vendor employees seem to wear a red or black uniform though so this could still easily be a vendor employee that just happened to be identified by the red.

http://www.startribune.com/delta-brings ... /48635187/

So, to be even fairer, wheelchair service was traditionally something provided by the airline directly. These contractors are most of the time paid by the airline directly and not the airport. It is not uncommon for all the airlines to jointly hire a contractor for this service and split the cost based on volume.

So, if ATL is setup that way, I suspect it is, the airline is still responsible. Tons of pieces of your airline experience are handled by contractors. From bag handlers, to gate agents, to club employees, regional flights, and a lot more. That does not absolve the brand from responsibility.

enilria wrote:

WkndWanderer wrote:

ual763 wrote:

It does appear that the actual act was committed by a “red coat”. I’m assuming this is the contracted wheelchair handler agency at ATL? Anyways, the poor woman was apparently also told to “shut the f*ck up” when she started crying.

But regardless, even if it wasn’t a Delta employee that told her that and who tied her in with a towel, Delta contracted them, so they have to take responsibility. Same idea as United taking responsibility for the Dr. Dao incident, the dog getting shipped to Japan by mistake, etc.

Well at Delta specifically, a "red coat" actually has a pretty special meaning and is a Delta customer service employee who is supposed to have additional training in complaint resolution and is supposed to be a highly visible person to go to if you need extra assistance or need to escalate a situation either due to poor service or the employee isn't familiar with what you need done. A lot of airport wheelchair vendor employees seem to wear a red or black uniform though so this could still easily be a vendor employee that just happened to be identified by the red.

http://www.startribune.com/delta-brings ... /48635187/

So, to be even fairer, wheelchair service was traditionally something provided by the airline directly. These contractors are most of the time paid by the airline directly and not the airport. It is not uncommon for all the airlines to jointly hire a contractor for this service and split the cost based on volume.

So, if ATL is setup that way, I suspect it is, the airline is still responsible. Tons of pieces of your airline experience are handled by contractors. From bag handlers, to gate agents, to club employees, regional flights, and a lot more. That does not absolve the brand from responsibility.

Except this happened in AMS. And I dare say none of us know enough to have a strong opinion about this matter yet.

seahawk wrote:

I wonder who took the photo of the woman..

Exactly, I did the same. Who would think of taking a picture instead of consoling this woman if they were travelling with her? To their credit: sad face 10/10.

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Dao + Video = Guilt
MS + No Video = “Doesn’t match our findings”

perhaps but Republic airlines (the dau flight) and the Chicago cops (airport cops not real cops) did the deed and United took the heat. How is Delta different?

kiowa wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Dao + Video = Guilt
MS + No Video = “Doesn’t match our findings”

perhaps but Republic airlines (the dau flight) and the Chicago cops (airport cops not real cops) did the deed and United took the heat. How is Delta different?

I wasn't passing judgment. Just sharing what seems to take place in these incidents. United initially didn't accept full responsibility for what happened (some blame put on Dao, etc) but the video really shut them up quick. Without a video, DL is free to claim "Doesn't match our findings". I'm not saying DL is correct or not. I'm just pointing out the disparity between the airline's position immediately following the event when there's a video vs when there isn't.

That's what I was thinking was that it was AMS as it looked like it to me, but the news makes it sound like it happened in Atlanta.

Jayafe wrote:

One more time the US3 clarifying what they think of their customers. "Isolated incidents", so many, some will say...

So AMS is in the US? And their employees are secretly employed by the US3?

The stories that are getting in the news are just laughable. It's Fake News!! People want to blame all their problems on the airlines. Between the oxygen mask placed just over the nose at WN, the apple with Delta and now this crazy story. Passengers need to be responsible for themselves and have a back up plan. I sometimes wonder how did they even make to the airport. Sometimes people need to be told to "shut the f up", it the only word they understand.