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VS4ever
Posts: 1636
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:02 am

jfklganyc wrote:
JFK PDX has never been seasonal.

Right now it’s 4x weekly Thursday, Friday, Sunday and Monday
I happen to know this as I am currently on B6 1205 over MT as I type this comment.
Because BOS-PDX is seasonal I had to take a routing of BOS-JFK-PDX-LGB-BOS for my trip, I’m not sure of the price point as the ticket was a mileage reward, but seem to remember it being around $400 as an equivalent payment. I was only able to do that routing because I left today. Not sure what I would have done if it had been yesterday
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
nine4nine
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:48 am

zackary747 wrote:
I thought I would share this link since JetBlue is mentioned. Take it as you will (with a grain of salt if you wish) but I thought this needed to be posted here. Plus, who doesn't love a good little conversation.

https://www.wibc.com/news/local-news/in ... -expansion

"Executive director Mario Rodriguez says the airport will announce its ninth major airline by year's end. He won't say which one, but says it's probably the most obvious domestic airline missing from Indy. The largest such airline is JetBlue, America's seventh-largest carrier."

Again, take it as you will but if this mystery airline is indeed JetBlue that would be great. If not then it is what it is.



Could be a possibility but I highly doubt it. If
I could guess it would by SY. B6 has had pretty stagnant growth for quite awhile. SY has been pretty aggressive as of late and has quite a few new aircraft adds coming online. But who knows, I’m curious to see.
717 727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 742 748 752 753 762 763 772 773 DC9 MD80/88/90 DC10 319 320 321 332 333 CS100 CRJ200 Q400 E175 E190 ERJ145 EMB120
 
cledaybuck
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:43 pm

nine4nine wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
I thought I would share this link since JetBlue is mentioned. Take it as you will (with a grain of salt if you wish) but I thought this needed to be posted here. Plus, who doesn't love a good little conversation.

https://www.wibc.com/news/local-news/in ... -expansion

"Executive director Mario Rodriguez says the airport will announce its ninth major airline by year's end. He won't say which one, but says it's probably the most obvious domestic airline missing from Indy. The largest such airline is JetBlue, America's seventh-largest carrier."

Again, take it as you will but if this mystery airline is indeed JetBlue that would be great. If not then it is what it is.



Could be a possibility but I highly doubt it. If
I could guess it would by SY. B6 has had pretty stagnant growth for quite awhile. SY has been pretty aggressive as of late and has quite a few new aircraft adds coming online. But who knows, I’m curious to see.
I would hardly call SY the most obvious domestic airline missing from IND. That would lead me to B6 or NK.
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:26 pm

I think ind is their next big new city out of bos and it will probably happen in the next few weeks for a launch somewhere in April or May. I don’t think it will take much to push wn out on that route.

After that, who knows? Maybe mem if they want to open up a market with no competition. They could also try Cmh or cvg if they want to make delta life harder. But that won’t happen for a while.
 
ucdtim17
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:38 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:27 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
So is PDX-BOS a no-go for 2019 then? Their only other summer seasonal transcon out of BOS was SMF, and that one is loaded into the 2019 schedule.

Also, SEA-ANC was loaded into the schedule, while PDX-ANC was not. Is that one gone too?


They also do BOS-OAK; not currently loaded as of schedule end June 12.


Update with the jetblue vacations schedule release - BOS-PDX/OAK do both return in June for the summer.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:00 pm

tphuang wrote:
I think ind is their next big new city out of bos and it will probably happen in the next few weeks for a launch somewhere in April or May. I don’t think it will take much to push wn out on that route.

After that, who knows? Maybe mem if they want to open up a market with no competition. They could also try Cmh or cvg if they want to make delta life harder. But that won’t happen for a while.


I think B6 to CMH could work WN off the route in the same way as starting IND would.
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cledaybuck
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:06 pm

tphuang wrote:
They could also try Cmh or cvg if they want to make delta life harder. But that won’t happen for a while.
One could only hope. CVG-BOS seems ripe for the picking.
 
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FA9295
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:23 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
So is PDX-BOS a no-go for 2019 then? Their only other summer seasonal transcon out of BOS was SMF, and that one is loaded into the 2019 schedule.

Also, SEA-ANC was loaded into the schedule, while PDX-ANC was not. Is that one gone too?


They also do BOS-OAK; not currently loaded as of schedule end June 12.


Update with the jetblue vacations schedule release - BOS-PDX/OAK do both return in June for the summer.

I'm still not seeing it. What date does it start on?
No, "FA" in my username does not stand for "flight attendant"...
 
tphuang
Posts: 2052
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:38 pm

FA9295 wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:

They also do BOS-OAK; not currently loaded as of schedule end June 12.


Update with the jetblue vacations schedule release - BOS-PDX/OAK do both return in June for the summer.

I'm still not seeing it. What date does it start on?

i think jetblue vacation schedule normally comes out before the rest of the schedule. You'd have to go to jetblue vacation website.
 
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FA9295
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:30 pm

tphuang wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:

Update with the jetblue vacations schedule release - BOS-PDX/OAK do both return in June for the summer.

I'm still not seeing it. What date does it start on?

i think jetblue vacation schedule normally comes out before the rest of the schedule. You'd have to go to jetblue vacation website.

Ah, thanks. It looks like PDX-ANC is on there as well... It's kinda weird that they don't have the two websites aligned with each other...
No, "FA" in my username does not stand for "flight attendant"...
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:48 pm

I have been thinking for almost a year that the next major domestic city they will open up is ind. after that, the obvious cities are cvg, Cmh, stl and mem.

If they want the least competition, they should go for mem. I think bos jfk fll can all theoretically work.

If they want to hurt dl profitability out of bos, cvg and Cmh are the obvious answers. Out of those two, Cmh is the easier one to enter since they can push out wn. And they can possibly add Cmh to fll and mco also. Dl operates 4 daily flight to cvg. It’s hard to break into that.

Stl makes sense since they would face no competition on jfk and wn is very weak in bos. But that would be all they can do. They would get crushed on stl fll or stl mco.
 
Indy
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:09 am

What route(s) would JetBlue even run out of IND?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:13 am

Indy wrote:
What route(s) would JetBlue even run out of IND?


Probably only IND-BOS to start, and potentially only IND-FLL as well
DL DM, AA Gold in 2018, Visited 2018: AMS, ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, DXB, EWR, FLL, FRA, HAV, HPN, JFK, JNB, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MCO, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, STL, TPA, TXL, ZRH
 
Indy
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:30 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Indy wrote:
What route(s) would JetBlue even run out of IND?


Probably only IND-BOS to start, and potentially only IND-FLL as well


Any chance they could pick up SAN and PDX?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
jplatts
Posts: 1830
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:39 am

Indy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Indy wrote:
What route(s) would JetBlue even run out of IND?


Probably only IND-BOS to start, and potentially only IND-FLL as well


Any chance they could pick up SAN and PDX?


B6 is unlikely to add IND-SAN or IND-PDX nonstop service, and AS is also more likely to add IND-PDX than B6, WN, or any US3 carriers are. In addition, WN also already has seasonal nonstop service to SAN from IND.
 
Indy
Posts: 4728
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:53 am

jplatts wrote:
B6 is unlikely to add IND-SAN or IND-PDX nonstop service, and AS is also more likely to add IND-PDX than B6, WN, or any US3 carriers are. In addition, WN also already has seasonal nonstop service to SAN from IND.


SAN is under served out of IND. It could easily support daily service and not just seasonal service. It really isn't a seasonal route. And lets not forget that the existence of a permanent nonstop flight would stimulate demand.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
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zackary747
Posts: 489
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:04 am

Indy wrote:
jplatts wrote:
B6 is unlikely to add IND-SAN or IND-PDX nonstop service, and AS is also more likely to add IND-PDX than B6, WN, or any US3 carriers are. In addition, WN also already has seasonal nonstop service to SAN from IND.


SAN is under served out of IND. It could easily support daily service and not just seasonal service. It really isn't a seasonal route. And lets not forget that the existence of a permanent nonstop flight would stimulate demand.


There is no way B6 would add a non-hub or non-focus city station out of IND. I can bet money on that. Yes SAN is underserved and PDX needs at least needs nonstop summer seasonal bare minimum, but you're talking WN (for SAN only) and AS territory here. Those open holes belong to the airlines that actually hub or focus city out of SAN and PDX,(or dart board ULCCs) not B6.

Here's what B6 could add from IND.

Most Likely
IND-BOS (Southwest will leave this route with their tail between their legs if this were to happen)
IND-FLL

Extremely Less Likely Wildcards
IND-JFK
IND-LGB (This is their only hub out west, and therefore the only option)

No Way in Crapola
IND-MCO (To low yielding to be possible)
IND-SJU (They'll connect people through the hubs in the intercontinental US, This route is an option for G4.)
Indianapolis Airport Spotter

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stlgph
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:31 pm

I really dont get the obsession with JetBlue coming in and doing Boston-Indianapolis.

I mean, if they want to, that's fine, just not sure why. Delta and Southwest aren't exactly setting new records on the route, so, sure, let's have an airline that's struggling to really get its costs under control to come onto the route, and then cheer they run off one of the two bigger airlines that offers decent service out of Indianapolis to a number of cities that aren't hubs.

If you want new service on United - congratulations, you can expect another CRJ to OHare or Houston. How thrilling.

If you want new service on American - congratulations, you *may* get another CRJ to Charlotte. How thrilling.

If want some variety, you have to look for Southwest or Delta for anything decent, unless you're happy with 2 weekly sometimes throughout the year service on Allegiant or Frontier.

If they come in JetBlue would/should absolutely run into JFK and take advantage of Southwest leaving the NYC market and pick up the money on the table running down to a Florida city or two. Look at their performance for the past 5 years, their bread and butter is shuttling people in and out of Florida, trying to deviate from this has gotten some base hits, but it's not the home runs needed to win the pennant, let alone the division.

But by all means, let's care about the IND airport but then cheer for another airline to come in to knock off service on another carrier that seems to show some care for the service they provide here.

That's a winning mentality.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:20 pm

stlgph wrote:
I really dont get the obsession with JetBlue coming in and doing Boston-Indianapolis.

I mean, if they want to, that's fine, just not sure why. Delta and Southwest aren't exactly setting new records on the route


BOS-IND is one of DL's best performing eastern US routes out of BOS

Average fares for Q2
DL BOS-MSY $128 (DL) *limited time service
DL BOS-PIT $133 (DL)
DL BOS-BUF $133 (DL)
DL BOS-CHS $157 (DL)
DL BOS-RIC $165 (DL)
DL BOS-JAX $186 (DL)
DL BOS-FLL $189 (DL)
DL BOS-MCI $195 (DL)
DL BOS-BNA $197 (DL)
DL BOS-RDU $203 (DL)
DL BOS-MIA $205 (DL)
DL BOS-ATL $209 (DL)
DL BOS-TPA $220 (DL)
DL BOS-DTW $226 (DL)
DL BOS-MCO $232 (DL)
DL BOS-MKE $239 (DL)
DL BOS-CMH $246 (DL)
DL BOS-AUS $250 (DL)
DL BOS-IND $253 (DL)
DL BOS-MSP $259 (DL)
DL BOS-CVG $282 (DL)
The flights do well LF wise as well, with LFs between 80-90%

It only makes sense for B6 to come in and try to weaken DL's position on the route. I am sure there are also some corporate entities on the BOS side pushing B6 to add this as well.

BOS is almost always the first market B6 looks to add when opening up new cities especially east of the mississippi, and BOS is the market they are most focussed on growing. With JFK limited slot wise, and the recent cutbacks on midwest/mid east flying from FLL, I would expect B6 to add BOS before anything else.

stlgph wrote:

If want some variety, you have to look for Southwest or Delta for anything decent, unless you're happy with 2 weekly sometimes throughout the year service on Allegiant or Frontier.

But by all means, let's care about the IND airport but then cheer for another airline to come in to knock off service on another carrier that seems to show some care for the service they provide here.


Not really pertinent to the Jetblue thread, but I'll take a stab at this one.

What has WN done for IND? In the past year they added 1xweekly service to AUS and CUN (routes that IND already has 2 carriers on), but at the same time cut LGA/EWR, DCA, and cut back BOS and LAX. They don't even run IND-SAN for more than 2 months a year, a market with close to 200 PDEW. You can even argue that the main reason they are still on IND-BOS is to throw a block on B6, and hurt DL.

If WN is as caring to the IND market as you alude to, then they will stick by the IND-BOS service if B6 adds it.
DL DM, AA Gold in 2018, Visited 2018: AMS, ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, DXB, EWR, FLL, FRA, HAV, HPN, JFK, JNB, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MCO, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, STL, TPA, TXL, ZRH
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:03 pm

stlgph wrote:
Calling IND/BOS one of DL's best route is far fetched 70 seat RJs at $180 roundtrip? Get real.


I provided data to show that it is in fact a route that performs well for DL, do you have any data to show that it doesn't perform well? I am happy to be proven wrong

stlgph wrote:
Southwest is doing a hell of a lot more than many other carriers, even offering a better variety of nonstops than Delta.

Yeah, because that is WN's network strategy, IND is a mid-sized station for WN with little growth to no growth

stlgph wrote:
You're obsessed with San Diego. Show me where Delta has been flying to San Diego.

I am not obsessed with SAN, I was merely saying WN offers the service for only two months a year when the market would likely be succesful year-round
stlgph wrote:
Show me where Delta is flying to Cancun

DL flies IND-CUN, they run it on the A320 from DEC-AUG
stlgph wrote:
Boston still remains. Los Angeles still remains. Did they drop them entirely? Nope. They're still there.

That doesn't negate the fact that they have cut service back on both routes
DL DM, AA Gold in 2018, Visited 2018: AMS, ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, DXB, EWR, FLL, FRA, HAV, HPN, JFK, JNB, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MCO, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, STL, TPA, TXL, ZRH
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:06 pm

Actually midwestindy, I think your figures may even under estimate DL's performance on BOS-IND. When I factor in just the LF and fare of direct itineraries, IND is the third highest yielding non-transcon route for DL out of BOS after SLC and CVG. They get lower yield on ATL, DTW, MSP (after b6 entrance), RDU. CMH is about the same as IND. Some of that has to do with DL operating RJ on that route, but DL operates RJ to most non-hub/non-transcon routes out of BOS.

btw, where do you get your fare numbers? I use a script that parses BTS raw data and the average I get is just lower than your figures in general.

You just have to look at LGA, ATL and MSP to see how much DL fares drop when B6 enters. In each case, they went down 25 to 50%.

I could see them adding JFK-IND if they somehow get more slots. But outside of that, any freed up JFK slots are likely to go to leisure and VFR routes.
 
Bluegrass60
Posts: 161
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:29 pm

How about BOS-SDF-FLL?
 
tphuang
Posts: 2052
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:53 pm

Form latest schedule update, a lot of added capacity to VFR markets, especially to DR out of NYC for this summer. This is taken from a Monday in July
NYC-SDQ
8 A321s out of JFK and 2 A320s out of EWR.
NYC-STI
5 A321s + 3 A320s out of JFK and 2 A320s out of EWR
Fewer A321s next summer on JFK-SJU. Maybe showing weak demand to SJU. MCO is seeing a little fewer E90s next summer I think.
NYC-SJU
1 A321 + 5 A320s out of JFK and 2 A320s out of EWR
Florida to SJU
4 A320s + 2 E90s out of MCO and 4 A320s + 1 E90 out of FLL
Really filling in nicely to PAP after AA cut JFK/FLL.
to PAP
2 A321s out of JFK, 1 A320 out of BOS, 3 A320s out of FLL, 1 E90 out of MCO
to KIN
2 A321s + 2 A320s out of JFK, 3 A320s out of FLL
POS is back to twice a day. GND is up also by August.
Others
1 A321 + 1 A320 JFK-POS, 2 A320s JFK-GND by August, 1 A320 JFK-POP

Also, I noticed that JFK-BUF is down to 5 a day next summer and PWM resumes with just 3 a day. Looks like continued shift of slot usage.

Also, it looks like SY is gone from JFK-MSP after first 2 weeks of January. Maybe a good time for B6 to enter. It's long enough of a flight where they should be able to fill 2 flights a day.
 
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adamh8297
Posts: 2872
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:12 pm

BOS-PDX - I understand that traffic is highly seasonal, the route is long, and the route has a strong competitor (AS) but is there another route between two top 40 MSA's operated seasonally with more than one daily frequency by another airline in the USA?
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN

2018 Flights: B6 BOS-BGI-BOS, WN BOS-MDW-BOS, B6 BOS-PDX-BOS
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 986
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:29 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
stlgph wrote:
I really dont get the obsession with JetBlue coming in and doing Boston-Indianapolis.

I mean, if they want to, that's fine, just not sure why. Delta and Southwest aren't exactly setting new records on the route


BOS-IND is one of DL's best performing eastern US routes out of BOS

Average fares for Q2
DL BOS-MSY $128 (DL) *limited time service
DL BOS-PIT $133 (DL)
DL BOS-BUF $133 (DL)
DL BOS-CHS $157 (DL)
DL BOS-RIC $165 (DL)
DL BOS-JAX $186 (DL)
DL BOS-FLL $189 (DL)
DL BOS-MCI $195 (DL)
DL BOS-BNA $197 (DL)
DL BOS-RDU $203 (DL)
DL BOS-MIA $205 (DL)
DL BOS-ATL $209 (DL)
DL BOS-TPA $220 (DL)
DL BOS-DTW $226 (DL)
DL BOS-MCO $232 (DL)
DL BOS-MKE $239 (DL)
DL BOS-CMH $246 (DL)
DL BOS-AUS $250 (DL)
DL BOS-IND $253 (DL)
DL BOS-MSP $259 (DL)
DL BOS-CVG $282 (DL)
The flights do well LF wise as well, with LFs between 80-90%

It only makes sense for B6 to come in and try to weaken DL's position on the route. I am sure there are also some corporate entities on the BOS side pushing B6 to add this as well.

BOS is almost always the first market B6 looks to add when opening up new cities especially east of the mississippi, and BOS is the market they are most focussed on growing. With JFK limited slot wise, and the recent cutbacks on midwest/mid east flying from FLL, I would expect B6 to add BOS before anything else.

stlgph wrote:

If want some variety, you have to look for Southwest or Delta for anything decent, unless you're happy with 2 weekly sometimes throughout the year service on Allegiant or Frontier.

But by all means, let's care about the IND airport but then cheer for another airline to come in to knock off service on another carrier that seems to show some care for the service they provide here.


Not really pertinent to the Jetblue thread, but I'll take a stab at this one.

What has WN done for IND? In the past year they added 1xweekly service to AUS and CUN (routes that IND already has 2 carriers on), but at the same time cut LGA/EWR, DCA, and cut back BOS and LAX. They don't even run IND-SAN for more than 2 months a year, a market with close to 200 PDEW. You can even argue that the main reason they are still on IND-BOS is to throw a block on B6, and hurt DL.

If WN is as caring to the IND market as you alude to, then they will stick by the IND-BOS service if B6 adds it.
CVG sure seems ripe for the picking. Legacy carrier monopoly route with high fares.

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