JetBlue seems to have been quiet for awhile on its network. MSP is starting soon however, Mint is expanding, and....?

What next?

Europe and a replacement for the E190's are rumored:https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1391921&p=20348775#p20348775

What do you know/think/hope for B6 and its future network development?

Will they enter Midwest cities such as IND, CMH, STL, MKE, etc.?
The West Coast, how will they build their presence there?
The elephant in the room, AS, discussed before, I know, numerous times, but what would be the network impact of such a merger? E175s/Q400s for the east coast?
Europe/South America with the A321neoLR: Is it all but guaranteed to happen or.....?
Will B6 add more focus cities/expand some of its destinations served with only 1-3x daily flights (DEN?, IAH, ABQ, SMF, etc.)
Never flown on B6 myself, but they seem to be a great airline with potential....
Thanks,

Iacobus Viridis

Thanks for writing on the other network threads, I love this sort of discussion, never thought many others were into it before this.

I really don't get this airline.

Will they enter Midwest cities such as IND, CMH, STL, MKE, etc.?

Yes....but the flights will probably only be to JFK, BOS, FLL

Truly, a fly-over airline.
Will they ever have a large operation in a non-coastal airport?

They remind me of an upside down National

US Airways without PIT or CLT to me as well. I don't think there is room in the present environment for a new central hub though.

I see B6 on DTW-MCO in the future...as usual. Market posts higher yields and more PDEW than ATL

727LOVER wrote:

I really don't get this airline.

Will they enter Midwest cities such as IND, CMH, STL, MKE, etc.?

Yes....but the flights will probably only be to JFK, BOS, FLL

Truly, a fly-over airline.
Will they ever have a large operation in a non-coastal airport?

They remind me of an upside down National

Jetblue seems like the airline who never get's over the elitist coastal attitude. Sure they may be based out of the Northeast, but unlike AS, who even calls themselves the west coast airline but have expanded extensively and successfully/profitability into the heartland, B6 refuses to even enter the midwest except for the "trendy" cities a la BNA, ORD. It's like an airline being run by a stereotypical new york/SFer "we are the center of the world" recent college graduate mindset. Whenever I think of B6 I think of a trendy young kid full of gadgets like closed door suites on board but thinks America is only the Northeast, Florida, the Carribean, and California.

stl07 wrote:

727LOVER wrote:

I really don't get this airline.

Will they enter Midwest cities such as IND, CMH, STL, MKE, etc.?

Yes....but the flights will probably only be to JFK, BOS, FLL

Truly, a fly-over airline.
Will they ever have a large operation in a non-coastal airport?

They remind me of an upside down National

Jetblue seems like the airline who never get's over the elitist coastal attitude. Sure they may be based out of the Northeast, but unlike AS, who even calls themselves the west coast airline but have expanded extensively and successfully/profitability into the heartland, B6 refuses to even enter the midwest except for the "trendy" cities a la BNA, ORD. It's like an airline being run by a stereotypical new york/SFer "we are the center of the world" recent college graduate mindset. Whenever I think of B6 I think of a trendy young kid full of gadgets like closed door suites on board but thinks America is only the Northeast, Florida, the Carribean, and California.

Uhh..B6 flies to DTW, CLE, PIT and MSP. What are you taking about?

How about some B6 in Manchester New Hampshire! I heard airport management will be having there yearly meeting with JetBlue this spring.

If jetblue decides on merging with someone, and I had to pick. I’d love to see them buy Frontier and build up Denver for their west coast/mid con hub. Yes they are two very different products but you can change a product.
Another one that I think would work, if it were to happen soon. Would be if they bought Sun Country and built up MSP and also called up AS to trade the 737s for their Airbus’

izbtmnhd wrote:

stl07 wrote:

727LOVER wrote:

I really don't get this airline.

Will they enter Midwest cities such as IND, CMH, STL, MKE, etc.?

Yes....but the flights will probably only be to JFK, BOS, FLL

Truly, a fly-over airline.
Will they ever have a large operation in a non-coastal airport?

They remind me of an upside down National

Jetblue seems like the airline who never get's over the elitist coastal attitude. Sure they may be based out of the Northeast, but unlike AS, who even calls themselves the west coast airline but have expanded extensively and successfully/profitability into the heartland, B6 refuses to even enter the midwest except for the "trendy" cities a la BNA, ORD. It's like an airline being run by a stereotypical new york/SFer "we are the center of the world" recent college graduate mindset. Whenever I think of B6 I think of a trendy young kid full of gadgets like closed door suites on board but thinks America is only the Northeast, Florida, the Carribean, and California.

Uhh..B6 flies to DTW, CLE, PIT and MSP. What are you taking about?

CMH, CVG, IND, STL, MCI. They only recently added MSP and CLE seemed to be an opportunistic add in response to UA closing the hub.

DeltaRules wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

stl07 wrote:

Jetblue seems like the airline who never get's over the elitist coastal attitude. Sure they may be based out of the Northeast, but unlike AS, who even calls themselves the west coast airline but have expanded extensively and successfully/profitability into the heartland, B6 refuses to even enter the midwest except for the "trendy" cities a la BNA, ORD. It's like an airline being run by a stereotypical new york/SFer "we are the center of the world" recent college graduate mindset. Whenever I think of B6 I think of a trendy young kid full of gadgets like closed door suites on board but thinks America is only the Northeast, Florida, the Carribean, and California.

Uhh..B6 flies to DTW, CLE, PIT and MSP. What are you taking about?

CMH, CVG, IND, STL, MCI. They only recently added MSP and CLE seemed to be an opportunistic add in response to UA closing the hub.

Plus they only fly to like BOS and FLL from the heartland. Very impressive and extensive routing.

They have said they will open 4 stations this year and so far have only announced MSP. IND is rumored to be next. In order to find the next stations, I go by the simple method of looking at markets out of BOS that they don't serve and is served by other carriers.

CityPair Distance Carrier Boarded AvgFare LF AvgPerSeat PRASM
BOSCVG 752 OO 3044 287.54 91.03% 261.74 0.3481
BOSCVG 752 DL 23115 295.17 61.82% 182.47 0.2426
BOSCVG 752 9E 15198 287.84 77.14% 222.02 0.2952
BOSCMH 640 WN 30267 161.58 70.47% 113.86 0.1779
BOSCMH 640 YX 21278 222.31 82.54% 183.5 0.2867
BOSIND 818 WN 33892 137.77 72.05% 99.26 0.1213
BOSIND 818 9E 2119 200.54 73.37% 147.14 0.1799
BOSIND 818 YX 22482 212.73 81.80% 174.02 0.2127
BOSMCI 1256 WN 30357 194.68 73.65% 143.39 0.1142
BOSMCI 1256 9E 6427 171.74 61.29% 105.26 0.0838
BOSMKE 860 WN 30965 159.48 77.93% 124.28 0.1445
BOSMKE 860 YX 12809 183.31 73.45% 134.63 0.1565
BOSMSP 1124 DL 131134 289.78 83.51% 242.01 0.2153
BOSMSP 1124 SY 40782 178.05 75.60% 134.6 0.1198
BOSSTL 1047 WN 69854 283.6 85.87% 243.52 0.2326

B6 probably has the strategy of going in important markets + making DL's life in BOS as difficult as possible (all 3 recent entries of LGA/ATL/MSP are all DL hubs). So from that, they'd probably go after top DL markets which would be IND, CVG and CMH. Out of those 3, I could see them adding BOS/JFK/FLL-IND, BOS/FLL-CVG and just BOS-CMH. Out of MSP, I could see JFK/FLL at some point in the future, especially if SY drops out of JFK.

stl07 wrote:

DeltaRules wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

Uhh..B6 flies to DTW, CLE, PIT and MSP. What are you taking about?

CMH, CVG, IND, STL, MCI. They only recently added MSP and CLE seemed to be an opportunistic add in response to UA closing the hub.

Plus they only fly to like BOS and FLL from the heartland. Very impressive and extensive routing.

I can't speak for the others (or MKE), but the feeling seems to be the ship may have sailed on them returning to CMH for that reason. BOS is covered by DL and WN (though I guess WN doesn't do that well on the route) and WN, G4, and now NK operate Columbus-FLL.

DeltaRules wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

stl07 wrote:

Jetblue seems like the airline who never get's over the elitist coastal attitude. Sure they may be based out of the Northeast, but unlike AS, who even calls themselves the west coast airline but have expanded extensively and successfully/profitability into the heartland, B6 refuses to even enter the midwest except for the "trendy" cities a la BNA, ORD. It's like an airline being run by a stereotypical new york/SFer "we are the center of the world" recent college graduate mindset. Whenever I think of B6 I think of a trendy young kid full of gadgets like closed door suites on board but thinks America is only the Northeast, Florida, the Carribean, and California.

Uhh..B6 flies to DTW, CLE, PIT and MSP. What are you taking about?

CMH, CVG, IND, STL, MCI. They only recently added MSP and CLE seemed to be an opportunistic add in response to UA closing the hub.

Are CLE, DTW, ORD and MSP not in the Midwest? Didn’t B6 serve CMH? Certainly CLE and DTW are not seen as trendy places yet B6 serves them, no? Because they’re not serving the five airports you listed means they’re skipping the Midwest? No, that’s not true.

There was a recent discussion in Boston thread about how B6 might get to 200 flights out of BOS. I don't want to settle in a specific number. In their annual report, they mentioned getting 6 additional gates on top of the 24 they already lease. If we factor in 2 of the gates been used extensively by Cape Air and EI/TP + their additional usage of terminal E gates, they can probably max out at somewhere close to 250 flights a day with what they have if they do 8 or 9 turns a day. Realistically, the number is probably a lot lower than that.

They are currently at around 165 flights a day right now. What could they add in the next 2 years. I think they might be able to add MSP/IND/CVG/CMH domestically + LON/DUB abroad, which will be around 15 flights. The next part is how many flights they can add to existing cities. I don't have fare numbers for International destinations. So, I'm looking at any destinations that's not a B6 focus cities where they may add (I ignore the slot restricted ones + ones I really think they have no shot of adding more). These are from Q4. Please note that B6 has lower cost than legacies, especially regional operation, so they can still be doing well if PRASM is lower.

CityPair Distance Carrier Boarded AvgFare LF AvgAsm PRASM Ratio Vs B6
BOSATL 946 DL 320740 152.68 87.85% 134.13 0.1418 155.94%
BOSATL 946 NK 21484 50.53 82.22% 41.55 0.0439 48.30%
BOSATL 946 WN 65321 110.54 81.73% 90.34 0.0955 105.03%
BOSATL 946 B6 99003 112.08 76.75% 86.01 0.0909 100.00%
Don't think anymore ATL adds unless NK and WN drops out.

BOSAUS 1698 DL 14147 227.97 79.99% 182.36 0.1074 87.70%
BOSAUS 1698 WN 24818 216.8 84.04% 182.2 0.1073 87.62%
BOSAUS 1698 B6 22755 238.97 87.02% 207.95 0.1225 100.00%
They are the highest yield airline to AUS and have high LF, Could see an additional flight, especially if they can fly E2 or C Series here.

BOSBWI 369 WN 196311 123.82 82.06% 101.6 0.2753 104.57%
BOSBWI 369 B6 68610 127.46 76.23% 97.17 0.2633 100.00%
BOSBWI 369 NK 39963 42.27 75.41% 31.88 0.0864 32.81%
Pretty good numbers and they certainly fly much fewer than WN. They could bump to 7 or 8 from 6 right now.

BOSBUF 395 9E 11647 121.42 57.35% 69.63 0.1763 80.14%
BOSBUF 395 B6 57451 125.99 68.97% 86.89 0.22 100.00%
Really hurting DL regional here, could see an additional flight to 6 a day.

BOSCLT 728 AA 223495 184.45 85.93% 158.51 0.2177 120.58%
BOSCLT 728 B6 24427 173.29 75.86% 131.46 0.1806 100.00%
Not very competitive schedule to AA here, but yields are not terrible, could see bumping from 2 to 4 here.

BOSORD 867 AA 214230 162.77 88.32% 143.76 0.1658 111.58%
BOSORD 867 NK 11128 46.27 79.26% 36.67 0.0423 28.46%
BOSORD 867 B6 40049 150.88 85.39% 128.84 0.1486 100.00%
BOSORD 867 UA 223461 166.91 90.38% 150.86 0.174 117.09%
Already adding from 2/3 a day to 4/5. You can see they have good yield here

BOSCLE 563 NK 6487 42.95 80.68% 34.66 0.0616 28.06%
BOSCLE 563 B6 45851 140.62 87.84% 123.52 0.2194 100.00%
BOSCLE 563 EV 23308 174.71 91.89% 160.54 0.2852 129.98%
I see them adding more here to pre-empt DL. Again, yields look good, they can go to 4 a day

BOSDEN 1754 WN 57193 234.28 90.89% 212.94 0.1214 117.26%
BOSDEN 1754 B6 42178 220.88 82.22% 181.6 0.1035 100.00%
BOSDEN 1754 UA 108663 277.19 92.08% 255.23 0.1455 140.54%
Not happening

BOSDTW 632 DL 154324 187.82 84.56% 158.82 0.2513 128.33%
BOSDTW 632 B6 48721 151.27 81.82% 123.76 0.1958 100.00%
BOSDTW 632 NK 6682 52.2 83.11% 43.38 0.0686 35.05%
Yields look good, helped by EK feeds no doubt. Should increase from 3 to 5 a day to put pressure on DL here.

BOSRSW 1249 DL 2444 241.73 71.88% 173.76 0.1391 97.86%
BOSRSW 1249 NK 20566 105.56 69.33% 73.18 0.0586 41.22%
BOSRSW 1249 B6 107676 221.38 80.21% 177.56 0.1422 100.00%
BOSJAX 1010 YX 5061 174.92 65.71% 114.94 0.1138 73.71%
BOSJAX 1010 B6 36407 194.23 80.28% 155.92 0.1544 100.00%
Unless DL adds here, I think B6 is happy with the equilibrium of making a lot more

BOSLAX 2611 AA 107026 291.17 85.73% 249.61 0.0956 97.45%
BOSLAX 2611 DL 55161 296.46 90.68% 268.83 0.103 104.95%
BOSLAX 2611 B6 92536 290.03 88.31% 256.14 0.0981 100.00%
BOSLAX 2611 VX 46975 257.41 85.96% 221.27 0.0847 86.39%
BOSLAX 2611 UA 32714 288.03 82.83% 238.58 0.0914 93.15%
I could see going to 5 a day like at SFO

BOSBNA 942 WN 59665 152.85 87.79% 134.18 0.1424 103.98%
BOSBNA 942 9E 7389 162.59 80.36% 130.66 0.1387 101.25%
BOSBNA 942 YX 9601 175.41 83.44% 146.36 0.1554 113.42%
BOSBNA 942 B6 41651 158.17 81.59% 129.05 0.137 100.00%
DL is going to 3 a day here. I think considering B6 yields look good here, they will go to 3 also.

BOSMSY 1368 NK 9795 81.4 65.13% 53.01 0.0388 28.27%
BOSMSY 1368 B6 34557 226.85 82.67% 187.54 0.1371 100.00%
Not adding here imo, LF and yields are good but not great. No real competition here

BOSPHL 280 AA 217770 157.53 83.62% 131.73 0.4705 118.16%
BOSPHL 280 B6 72115 148.4 75.12% 111.48 0.3981 100.00%
I could see them adding here since the numbers and LF look pretty good. 6 to 7/8 is possible

BOSPIT 496 ZW 4607 203.56 83.76% 170.51 0.3438 133.65%
BOSPIT 496 9E 15025 140.92 67.02% 94.44 0.1904 74.02%
BOSPIT 496 YX 3213 164.29 52.25% 85.85 0.1731 67.29%
BOSPIT 496 B6 71547 167.44 76.19% 127.58 0.2572 100.00%
Still very profitable looking for B6 with huge yield advantage over AA/DL regional. No add is really needed

BOSRDU 612 G7 24870 208.64 81.32% 169.67 0.2772 101.06%
BOSRDU 612 9E 30095 215.78 80.01% 172.64 0.2821 102.83%
BOSRDU 612 B6 71518 200.72 83.65% 167.89 0.2743 100.00%
Already upping to 6 from 5.

BOSRIC 474 G7 1951 124.93 69.68% 87.05 0.1836 75.64%
BOSRIC 474 B6 53315 145.81 78.93% 115.08 0.2428 100.00%
BOSRIC 474 EV 19732 154.92 78.37% 121.41 0.2561 105.50%
Don't see any adds here based on LF.

BOSSFO 2704 DL 30058 294.26 73.74% 217 0.0803 86.20%
BOSSFO 2704 B6 88590 312.67 80.52% 251.75 0.0931 100.00%
BOSSFO 2704 VX 58357 274.34 80.74% 221.49 0.0819 87.98%
BOSSFO 2704 UA 169360 358.15 88.41% 316.64 0.1171 125.78%
Already a bloodbath. Don't think they can add more here.

BOSTPA 1185 DL 31832 189.76 78.16% 148.31 0.1252 93.82%
BOSTPA 1185 NK 14183 76.59 75.91% 58.14 0.0491 36.78%
BOSTPA 1185 B6 92727 188.47 83.88% 158.08 0.1334 100.00%
DL is adding another daily and B6 has higher LF. So they should probably add another to counter

BOSIAD 413 B6 37623 156.32 73.05% 114.2 0.2765 100.00%
BOSIAD 413 UA 99695 171.85 84.08% 144.48 0.3498 126.52%
BOSIAD 413 YV 2114 207.77 94.38% 196.09 0.4748 171.71%
I think they will add another flight here. Yields are really good here. 3 to 4.

So I see about 15 to 20 adds from these domestic markets in the next 2 to 3 years. They will probably add more Caribbean flights also, so it's certainly not out of realm of possibility to reach 200 by 2020.

izbtmnhd wrote:

DeltaRules wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

Uhh..B6 flies to DTW, CLE, PIT and MSP. What are you taking about?

CMH, CVG, IND, STL, MCI. They only recently added MSP and CLE seemed to be an opportunistic add in response to UA closing the hub.

Are CLE, DTW, ORD and MSP not in the Midwest? Didn’t B6 serve CMH? Certainly CLE and DTW are not seen as trendy places yet B6 serves them, no? Because they’re not serving the five airports you listed means they’re skipping the Midwest? No, that’s not true.

All I'm saying is there are quite a few cities in the Midwest/Heartland they don't serve. By their own admission (in a B6 investor presentation a couple years ago), they didn't/don't serve a handful of the top 20 markets from BOS and a couple of those I listed were among them.

Since that time, they've added MSP. It could be logical that the others might be future targets.

Buffalo / BNIA has been really successful for Jetblue. JFK, BOS, a few Florida routes, and LAX. On of the few "non hub" airports to have direct service to LA. I would like to see them expand.

Salt Lake city, San Fran, Houston, or DFW (Dallas) come to mind. -> which are all on the list the NFTA director looking for an airline to expand to.

Thanks for doing that analysis Tphuang.
Do those numbers include flow traffic carried on those flight segments?
Incredible information.

stl07 wrote:

727LOVER wrote:

I really don't get this airline.

Will they enter Midwest cities such as IND, CMH, STL, MKE, etc.?

Yes....but the flights will probably only be to JFK, BOS, FLL

Truly, a fly-over airline.
Will they ever have a large operation in a non-coastal airport?

They remind me of an upside down National

Jetblue seems like the airline who never get's over the elitist coastal attitude. Sure they may be based out of the Northeast, but unlike AS, who even calls themselves the west coast airline but have expanded extensively and successfully/profitability into the heartland, B6 refuses to even enter the midwest except for the "trendy" cities a la BNA, ORD. It's like an airline being run by a stereotypical new york/SFer "we are the center of the world" recent college graduate mindset. Whenever I think of B6 I think of a trendy young kid full of gadgets like closed door suites on board but thinks America is only the Northeast, Florida, the Carribean, and California.

B6 is just shooting themselves in the feet at this point, they should have entered/reentered those cities 5-8 years ago when there was little competition. Now they have allowed WN, DL, G4, e.t.c to plant their flags in the midwest.

Quite a shame to be honest. I am a DL FF based in IND, and anytime I fly intra-northeast I fly B6. If they came to IND I would likely chose B6 to BOS/JFK over DL, AA, WN, e.t.c

However, I have heard that IND is next up in terms of destinations in the midwest

tphuang wrote:

They have said they will open 4 stations this year and so far have only announced MSP. IND is rumored to be next. In order to find the next stations, I go by the simple method of looking at markets out of BOS that they don't serve and is served by other carriers.

CityPair Distance Carrier Boarded AvgFare LF AvgPerSeat PRASM
BOSCVG 752 OO 3044 287.54 91.03% 261.74 0.3481
BOSCVG 752 DL 23115 295.17 61.82% 182.47 0.2426
BOSCVG 752 9E 15198 287.84 77.14% 222.02 0.2952
BOSCMH 640 WN 30267 161.58 70.47% 113.86 0.1779
BOSCMH 640 YX 21278 222.31 82.54% 183.5 0.2867
BOSIND 818 WN 33892 137.77 72.05% 99.26 0.1213
BOSIND 818 9E 2119 200.54 73.37% 147.14 0.1799
BOSIND 818 YX 22482 212.73 81.80% 174.02 0.2127
BOSMCI 1256 WN 30357 194.68 73.65% 143.39 0.1142
BOSMCI 1256 9E 6427 171.74 61.29% 105.26 0.0838
BOSMKE 860 WN 30965 159.48 77.93% 124.28 0.1445
BOSMKE 860 YX 12809 183.31 73.45% 134.63 0.1565
BOSMSP 1124 DL 131134 289.78 83.51% 242.01 0.2153
BOSMSP 1124 SY 40782 178.05 75.60% 134.6 0.1198
BOSSTL 1047 WN 69854 283.6 85.87% 243.52 0.2326

B6 probably has the strategy of going in important markets + making DL's life in BOS as difficult as possible (all 3 recent entries of LGA/ATL/MSP are all DL hubs). So from that, they'd probably go after top DL markets which would be IND, CVG and CMH. Out of those 3, I could see them adding BOS/JFK/FLL-IND, BOS/FLL-CVG and just BOS-CMH. Out of MSP, I could see JFK/FLL at some point in the future, especially if SY drops out of JFK.

I somehow missed this post, but thanks for the data from me as well. That seems to confirm WN's BOS-CMH (and -IND, for that matter) aren't going so well and the adds, which might have been their way of throwing the block on B6, might be backfiring.

izbtmnhd wrote:

DeltaRules wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

Uhh..B6 flies to DTW, CLE, PIT and MSP. What are you taking about?

CMH, CVG, IND, STL, MCI. They only recently added MSP and CLE seemed to be an opportunistic add in response to UA closing the hub.

Are CLE, DTW, ORD and MSP not in the Midwest? Didn’t B6 serve CMH? Certainly CLE and DTW are not seen as trendy places yet B6 serves them, no? Because they’re not serving the five airports you listed means they’re skipping the Midwest? No, that’s not true.

You are pushing it here, its pretty indisputable that b6 has a massive whole in their network in the midwest. Not flying to CMH, CVG, IND, STL, MCI, and MKE, and other mid-sized stations in the central us like MEM, SDF, SDF, MSN, OMA, e.t.c is pretty sad. Sure you say they serve ORD, DTW, and MSP, but those are major metropolitan areas, which are not really comparable with the cities that were listed above.

Midwestindy wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

DeltaRules wrote:

CMH, CVG, IND, STL, MCI. They only recently added MSP and CLE seemed to be an opportunistic add in response to UA closing the hub.

Are CLE, DTW, ORD and MSP not in the Midwest? Didn’t B6 serve CMH? Certainly CLE and DTW are not seen as trendy places yet B6 serves them, no? Because they’re not serving the five airports you listed means they’re skipping the Midwest? No, that’s not true.

You are pushing it here, its pretty indisputable that b6 has a massive whole in their network in the midwest. Not flying to CMH, CVG, IND, STL, MCI, and MKE, and other mid-sized stations in the central us like MEM, SDF, SDF, MSN, OMA, e.t.c is pretty sad. Sure you say they serve ORD, DTW, and MSP, but those are major metropolitan areas, which are not really comparable with the cities that were listed above.

I was responding to stl who wrote that B6 only serves "trendy" cities in the Midwest. (Then used BNA?!? as the example). CLE and DTW aren't on any "trendy" list. Maybe he forgot B6 serves them, I don't know.

I would even list other B6 stations such as PIT and BUF as more Midwest/not trendy in their nature and less East Coast elitist..whatever that means. B6 has a limited amount of frames and heck of a lot of competition in BOS and NYC. They're working their way into the interior.

Does B6 serve the Midwest extensively? No. Do they serve the Midwest? Yes!

SumChristianus wrote:

Thanks for doing that analysis Tphuang.
Do those numbers include flow traffic carried on those flight segments?
Incredible information.

Not sure exactly what that means, but the LF includes any traffic on those routes, whether non-stop or as part of a connection. The fare numbers are taken from BTS also, so it includes any itinerary (including multi-stop itinerary) between 2 airports. So they are not exactly comparable nor do I have any data on how an airline would allocate revenue for AAA-BOS on a ticket from AAA-BOS-CCC. This is just a rough look at how well each carrier is doing. B6 has mostly O&D traffic, so it's probably close to how well they are doing.

Midwestindy wrote:

stl07 wrote:

727LOVER wrote:

I really don't get this airline.

Will they enter Midwest cities such as IND, CMH, STL, MKE, etc.?

Yes....but the flights will probably only be to JFK, BOS, FLL

Truly, a fly-over airline.
Will they ever have a large operation in a non-coastal airport?

They remind me of an upside down National

Jetblue seems like the airline who never get's over the elitist coastal attitude. Sure they may be based out of the Northeast, but unlike AS, who even calls themselves the west coast airline but have expanded extensively and successfully/profitability into the heartland, B6 refuses to even enter the midwest except for the "trendy" cities a la BNA, ORD. It's like an airline being run by a stereotypical new york/SFer "we are the center of the world" recent college graduate mindset. Whenever I think of B6 I think of a trendy young kid full of gadgets like closed door suites on board but thinks America is only the Northeast, Florida, the Carribean, and California.

B6 is just shooting themselves in the feet at this point, they should have entered/reentered those cities 5-8 years ago when there was little competition. Now they have allowed WN, DL, G4, e.t.c to plant their flags in the midwest.

Quite a shame to be honest. I am a DL FF based in IND, and anytime I fly intra-northeast I fly B6. If they came to IND I would likely chose B6 to BOS/JFK over DL, AA, WN, e.t.c

However, I have heard that IND is next up in terms of destinations in the midwest

They were also weaker in BOS back then and had to get into those more critical markets first. Now that they are more established at BOS/FLL, I think entering markets that are legacy fortress hubs should be no problem. They do move pretty slowly though.

Wouldn't mind seeing JFK-MCI pop up sometime in the future. A second DAB flight has been long rumored, but nothing came up yet.

I suppose this belongs here too.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 34194.html

For travel starting May 1st, will be able to buy JetSuiteX tickets on B6 code share.

tphuang wrote:

I suppose this belongs here too.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 34194.html

For travel starting May 1st, will be able to buy JetSuiteX tickets on B6 code share.

JetBlue Executive Express? ExecutiveBlue?

Do you think they'll come to the east coast, maybe setting up at HPN, OPA, or Teterbero?

The only hole in their network I see at least on the east coast is the Hampton Roads area. AirTran seemed to have a mini hub setup at PHF with flights to Florida and the northeast (they even offered connections); as I recall the only reason it closed was to consolidate post-merger operations at ORF. Surely this is a region JetBlue should look at.

PHF-MCO/FLL, PHF-JFK/BOS/LGA?

tphuang wrote:

I suppose this belongs here too.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 34194.html

For travel starting May 1st, will be able to buy JetSuiteX tickets on B6 code share.

I heard Robin Hayes would be paying a visit out West this week. Maybe has something to do with this?

Maybe introduction of jetSuiteX to LGB? I believe there is a large vacant hangar space located next to Gulfstream to run an operation from. Using the main terminal with tsa etc... would defeat the purpose of the jetsuite experience so I wouldn’t expect to see them use the terminal and commuter slots.

Maybe big additions to BUR for feed from the
jetSuiteX west coast hub?

Just guesses.....

nine4nine wrote:

tphuang wrote:

I suppose this belongs here too.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 34194.html

For travel starting May 1st, will be able to buy JetSuiteX tickets on B6 code share.

I heard Robin Hayes would be paying a visit out West this week. Maybe has something to do with this?

Maybe introduction of jetSuiteX to LGB? I believe there is a large vacant hangar space located next to Gulfstream to run an operation from. Using the main terminal with tsa etc... would defeat the purpose of the jetsuite experience so I wouldn’t expect to see them use the terminal and commuter slots.

Maybe big additions to BUR for feed from the
jetSuiteX west coast hub?

Just guesses.....

Maybe a new plan for LGB

Any additional growth out of CLT would be the best news to me. There hasn’t been an increase from here in about 6 or 7 years. CLT-BOS should easily be 4 daily considering how large of market it is on both sides. At least have some kind of schedule against AAs 9 daily flights.

On the bright side, B6 is moving into the new concourse this summer at CLT.

flymco753 wrote:

I see B6 on DTW-MCO in the future...as usual. Market posts higher yields and more PDEW than ATL

I don’t see this happening before they move to the new terminal due to what I call the nk test. I have a spreadsheet of various b6 routes out of fll and mco showing their yield vs other carriers. Typically, if nk passenger fare yield is under 50% of b6, then b6 is doing really well. If it’s between 50 and 60, they are still doing pretty well. If it’s over 60 , then we are getting into the territory of places like bwi where nk is larger. Out of fll, there are only two routes where nk exceeds 70% of b6 yield. One is ord and the other is dtw.

And b6 normally yield better to the same destination out of fll than mco. And they are also more willing to loose money out of fll right now than mco because that’s their current focus in Florida. I do see this changing in a couple of years when they move into the new terminal and also getting close to reaching their stated goal of 140 flights at fll. But until that happens, they won’t be entering on a route that dl and nk are quite strong at.

tphuang wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

I see B6 on DTW-MCO in the future...as usual. Market posts higher yields and more PDEW than ATL

I don’t see this happening before they move to the new terminal due to what I call the nk test. I have a spreadsheet of various b6 routes out of fll and mco showing their yield vs other carriers. Typically, if nk passenger fare yield is under 50% of b6, then b6 is doing really well. If it’s between 50 and 60, they are still doing pretty well. If it’s over 60 , then we are getting into the territory of places like bwi where nk is larger. Out of fll, there are only two routes where nk exceeds 70% of b6 yield. One is ord and the other is dtw.

And b6 normally yield better to the same destination out of fll than mco. And they are also more willing to loose money out of fll right now than mco because that’s their current focus in Florida. I do see this changing in a couple of years when they move into the new terminal and also getting close to reaching their stated goal of 140 flights at fll. But until that happens, they won’t be entering on a route that dl and nk are quite strong at.

Once C opens at MCO, I agree. 1-9 and 1 or 2 gates in the 20 gates aren't enough for what B6 want's to do with Orlando.

FARmd90 wrote:

If jetblue decides on merging with someone, and I had to pick. I’d love to see them buy Frontier and build up Denver for their west coast/mid con hub. Yes they are two very different products but you can change a product.
Another one that I think would work, if it were to happen soon. Would be if they bought Sun Country and built up MSP and also called up AS to trade the 737s for their Airbus’

I said the same earlier. Purchase Frontier and have JetBlue make Denver a hub.

Or what about a hub for JetBlue at Mid America Airport in Saint Louis?

In the Q1 earnings call, B6 repeated the goal of 140 flights a day from FLL. They've gotten agreement for 5 more gates in order to do so. So I decided to do the same exercise as with BOS to see where they can add, since it was mentioned that they can add frequencies to get there. I don't have fare numbers for international flights, so this will have to look at domestic routes. I've left out focus city flying as usual since those get adjusted regularly and airports where there is slot restriction like DCA/HPN and airport where they are definitely not adding any time soon like ORD, SLC.
CityPair Distance Carrier Boarded AvgFare LF AvgAsm PRASM Ratio vs B6
FLLALB 1204 WN 9548 170.34 82.04% 139.75 0.1161 108.97%
FLLALB 1204 B6 22331 159.36 80.47% 128.24 0.1065 100.00%
LF is good here, but not great. Don't think there is enough demand here for any additions

FLLAUS 1105 WN 44373 160.41 82.11% 131.71 0.1192 97.07%
FLLAUS 1105 B6 22321 158.95 85.36% 135.68 0.1228 100.00%
They are certainly doing well in AUS with good LF. I think they can add a frequency here to match WN

FLLBWI 925 NK 82936 55.76 75.57% 42.13 0.0455 42.02%
FLLBWI 925 WN 227449 132.11 85.39% 112.82 0.122 112.53%
FLLBWI 925 B6 41808 132.37 75.74% 100.26 0.1084 100.00%
Another airport where they are not doing terribly despite being WN stronghold. They seem to only be doing once daily here during summer and twice in winter. Could be candidate for adding one flight.

FLLBUF 1166 WN 25871 164.42 91.85% 151.01 0.1295 101.32%
FLLBUF 1166 B6 21561 167.97 88.73% 149.04 0.1278 100.00%
Really good LF and yield after they upped it to daily. Again, this is a good candidate to get increased.

FLLCHS 470 B6 15087 138.4 81.11% 112.26 0.2389 100.00%
Seems like once a day on E90 is appropriate for this market.

FLLSFO 2584 B6 48138 284.31 83.31% 236.86 0.0917 100.00%
FLLSFO 2584 VX 27700 271.19 77.85% 211.13 0.0817 89.14%
FLLSFO 2584 UA 27910 289.76 82.46% 238.95 0.0925 100.88%
Performance here keeps improving. Should add at least one more flight, especially with AS/VX retreating.

FLLCLE 1062 B6 24267 134.45 88.40% 118.86 0.1119 100.00%
FLLCLE 1062 NK 24581 58.83 85.28% 50.17 0.0472 42.21%
Decent yield with great LF. B6 should definitely think about adding here.

FLLDTW 1127 DL 113007 204.39 84.95% 173.62 0.1541 175.07%
FLLDTW 1127 NK 72270 58.71 84.15% 49.4 0.0438 49.81%
FLLDTW 1127 B6 20856 131.24 75.57% 99.17 0.088 100.00%
Getting dominated here by DL as expected, not likely to add

FLLBDL 1173 NK 22696 62.56 75.10% 46.98 0.0401 33.89%
FLLBDL 1173 WN 24644 144.01 88.75% 127.8 0.109 92.19%
FLLBDL 1173 B6 47078 166.53 83.25% 138.63 0.1182 100.00%
Again, doing really well against WN/NK. Candidate to add another flight.

FLLJAX 319 B6 45480 128.04 81.65% 104.54 0.3277 100.00%
With WN getting on board and LF in 80s, not likely to add more

FLLLAS 2173 NK 28801 87.3 88.10% 76.92 0.0354 44.07%
FLLLAS 2173 WN 26816 198.36 93.61% 185.67 0.0854 106.38%
FLLLAS 2173 B6 24728 193.76 90.08% 174.55 0.0803 100.00%
yields are not great all around. Don't think more will get added.

FLLLAX 2342 NK 26282 109.24 90.04% 98.36 0.042 36.90%
FLLLAX 2342 B6 51677 300.92 88.59% 266.57 0.1138 100.00%
FLLLAX 2342 VX 56949 285.14 90.69% 258.58 0.1104 97.00%
Major adds needed. The yields have only improved in Q1. Should add 2 more flights if not more

FLLBNA 793 WN 78598 152.94 89.19% 136.41 0.172 130.68%
FLLBNA 793 B6 22003 130.95 79.72% 104.39 0.1316 100.00%
FLLMSY 674 NK 43232 41.11 76.41% 31.41 0.0466 35.74%
FLLMSY 674 WN 54614 130.99 88.60% 116.06 0.1722 132.06%
FLLMSY 674 B6 22889 107.5 81.75% 87.88 0.1304 100.00%
holding up again WN in both cases, but don't think they are ready for more frequency here.

FLLPHL 992 AA 90855 174.97 85.22% 149.12 0.1503 126.98%
FLLPHL 992 NK 40295 56.79 81.58% 46.33 0.0467 39.45%
FLLPHL 992 WN 36088 148.91 89.87% 133.82 0.1349 113.95%
FLLPHL 992 B6 45379 142.46 82.43% 117.44 0.1184 100.00%
they are doing okay, but LF is just mediocre. Could possibly add one more to improve their schedule.

FLLPIT 994 NK 10765 45.82 68.39% 31.34 0.0315 31.00%
FLLPIT 994 WN 33405 137.66 90.69% 124.85 0.1256 123.48%
FLLPIT 994 B6 21603 129.17 78.27% 101.11 0.1017 100.00%
Looking like one surviving on connection, not likely for more add.

FLLPVD 1188 WN 30969 179.87 87.36% 157.13 0.1323 110.13%
FLLPVD 1188 B6 22537 173.78 82.10% 142.68 0.1201 100.00%
I don't think there is enough demand here for more flight by either carrier

FLLRDU 680 G7 2768 208.96 76.38% 159.61 0.2347 125.22%
FLLRDU 680 WN 29718 144.54 86.87% 125.55 0.1846 98.50%
FLLRDU 680 9E 8450 158.64 84.25% 133.65 0.1965 104.86%
FLLRDU 680 B6 30894 151.83 83.95% 127.46 0.1874 100.00%
FLLRIC 805 B6 28378 173.45 77.11% 133.76 0.1662 100.00%
Just added one in both case. I think RDU will continue to grow, but 2 flights a day is enough for now.

So unlike BOS, there isn't as many candidates at least domestically that can handle increased frequency. Internationally, they seem to have more options. I think in order to reach their goal of 140, they are going to have to add quite a few new market.

I think IAD, SEA and PDX should be on top of the list. And they will probably have to add to legacy strongholds like MSP/DFW/CLT in order to really establish this as a hub. I'm sure a lot of those routes will have to survive on connection traffic.

tphuang wrote:

FLLLAX 2342 NK 26282 109.24 90.04% 98.36 0.042 36.90%
FLLLAX 2342 B6 51677 300.92 88.59% 266.57 0.1138 100.00%
FLLLAX 2342 VX 56949 285.14 90.69% 258.58 0.1104 97.00%
Major adds needed. The yields have only improved in Q1. Should add 2 more flights if not more
.

Thanks for this info! very interesting.

Is it the lack of gates at LAX or lack of Mint AC holding this back?

MKIAZ wrote:

tphuang wrote:

FLLLAX 2342 NK 26282 109.24 90.04% 98.36 0.042 36.90%
FLLLAX 2342 B6 51677 300.92 88.59% 266.57 0.1138 100.00%
FLLLAX 2342 VX 56949 285.14 90.69% 258.58 0.1104 97.00%
Major adds needed. The yields have only improved in Q1. Should add 2 more flights if not more
.

Thanks for this info! very interesting.

Is it the lack of gates at LAX or lack of Mint AC holding this back?

lack of mint AC. BOS got a lot of them. And most of the remaining A321 deliveries this year are 200 seaters. There should be some mint capacity available later this year when they get one more delivery + reduced frequency on BOS-SEA/SAN. I think FLL-LAX should get more frequency but who knows.

stl07 wrote:

Jetblue seems like the airline who never get's over the elitist coastal attitude. Sure they may be based out of the Northeast, but unlike AS, who even calls themselves the west coast airline but have expanded extensively and successfully/profitability into the heartland, B6 refuses to even enter the midwest except for the "trendy" cities a la BNA, ORD. It's like an airline being run by a stereotypical new york/SFer "we are the center of the world" recent college graduate mindset. Whenever I think of B6 I think of a trendy young kid full of gadgets like closed door suites on board but thinks America is only the Northeast, Florida, the Carribean, and California.

You obviously don't understand B6s business model. Their model is to fly to places where New Yorkers and New Englanders want to travel to. It's a very easy and simple model. There's nothing elitist about it. They're not going to fly a half empty route just to satisfy some a.netters imaginary route map.

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:

Buffalo / BNIA has been really successful for Jetblue. JFK, BOS, a few Florida routes, and LAX. On of the few "non hub" airports to have direct service to LA. I would like to see them expand.

Salt Lake city, San Fran, Houston, or DFW (Dallas) come to mind. -> which are all on the list the NFTA director looking for an airline to expand to.

BOS-DFW is stuck at 2 flights a day. B6 has not been able to make any inroads into American’s operation there, which is probably why they haven’t tried JFK-DFW or FLL-DFW. I don’t see them adding much, if anything, to DFW anytime soon.

JetBlueCLT wrote:

Any additional growth out of CLT would be the best news to me. There hasn’t been an increase from here in about 6 or 7 years. CLT-BOS should easily be 4 daily considering how large of market it is on both sides. At least have some kind of schedule against AAs 9 daily flights.

On the bright side, B6 is moving into the new concourse this summer at CLT.

*sigh*
I know. Was looking to go to Boston to visit a friend out in the suburbs, and zilch on JetBlue worked. The frequency is terrible, the prices are more expensive than American's by almost $150 (so much for low cost) and there aren't any night flights into CLT nor morning flights into BOS.
Same exact thing went for trying to use B6 as a positioning flight to JFK for the start of an international itinerary, but it was about $50 more. (Delta was about $20 cheaper, but you know...miles) American got my business once again.

If carriers want to make inroads on CLT-based passengers, they are going to have to try to make an effort.

(end rant)

ahj2000 wrote:

JetBlueCLT wrote:

Any additional growth out of CLT would be the best news to me. There hasn’t been an increase from here in about 6 or 7 years. CLT-BOS should easily be 4 daily considering how large of market it is on both sides. At least have some kind of schedule against AAs 9 daily flights.

On the bright side, B6 is moving into the new concourse this summer at CLT.

*sigh*
I know. Was looking to go to Boston to visit a friend out in the suburbs, and zilch on JetBlue worked. The frequency is terrible, the prices are more expensive than American's by almost $150 (so much for low cost) and there aren't any night flights into CLT nor morning flights into BOS.
Same exact thing went for trying to use B6 as a positioning flight to JFK for the start of an international itinerary, but it was about $50 more. (Delta was about $20 cheaper, but you know...miles) American got my business once again.

If carriers want to make inroads on CLT-based passengers, they are going to have to try to make an effort.

(end rant)

JetBlue is a low cost carrier but not a low fare carrier. They are rarely cheaper than legacies out of New York and Boston. And on jfk to clt and a lot of southern cities, they do really well on the leisure traffic. Unless they get more slots, I don’t see any growth there. But I think they could add to fll and bos.

Midwestindy wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

DeltaRules wrote:

CMH, CVG, IND, STL, MCI. They only recently added MSP and CLE seemed to be an opportunistic add in response to UA closing the hub.

Are CLE, DTW, ORD and MSP not in the Midwest? Didn’t B6 serve CMH? Certainly CLE and DTW are not seen as trendy places yet B6 serves them, no? Because they’re not serving the five airports you listed means they’re skipping the Midwest? No, that’s not true.

You are pushing it here, its pretty indisputable that b6 has a massive whole in their network in the midwest. Not flying to CMH, CVG, IND, STL, MCI, and MKE, and other mid-sized stations in the central us like MEM, SDF, SDF, MSN, OMA, e.t.c is pretty sad. Sure you say they serve ORD, DTW, and MSP, but those are major metropolitan areas, which are not really comparable with the cities that were listed above.

The thing about Memphis is that there is no exsiting nonstop servicing that route unlike most of those with Delta or Southwest offering directs. It supposedly has a PDEW of around 100. The cheapest fare you'll see is WN offering a 6:55 AM one stop/no plane change via BWI and the it'ts rarely ever cheaperthan 190(Tue and Wed) and most likey well over 200. All return flights are connections and usually over 200. This is a fairly heavy business route with only a little leasure from Memphis due to the fares. Given the numbers FLL PDEW numbers from Memphis with only Allegiant offering 2x, sometimes 3x weekly nonstops. There's opportunity to grab the majority of that and really tap into capturing any Carribean connecting.

There is no direct JFK service via Memphis.

Those scream opportunity with the 100 seater, especially BOS.

Memphis was up around 5% for Feb 2018 over 2017, continuing to grow post Delta.

KICT wrote:

The only hole in their network I see at least on the east coast is the Hampton Roads area. AirTran seemed to have a mini hub setup at PHF with flights to Florida and the northeast (they even offered connections); as I recall the only reason it closed was to consolidate post-merger operations at ORF. Surely this is a region JetBlue should look at.
T
PHF-MCO/FLL, PHF-JFK/BOS/LGA?

I too am perplexed as to why JetBlue hasn’t entered this market. For years ORF was one of the largest unserved nonstop destinations (if not the largest one) in terms of pax from BOS until DL finally decided to begin flying this route in the fall.

There are many routes that I think B6 should add out of JFK if slot wasn't an issue and DFW happens to be one of them.

I think they can add DFW-FLL, but it would have to survive mostly on connections and likely loose money.

The within perimeter routes that I think they can add out of JFK if slot isn't an issue and if they had the aircraft for them.
CLE, BDL, RIC, DTW, MSP, STL, IND, BNA, MEM, DFW

^JFK has a perimeter? I thought that was only LGA.

greenair727 wrote:

^JFK has a perimeter? I thought that was only LGA.

it has no perimeter. We didn't see JFK operate many flights within the LGA perimeter before JetBlue came along. Even so, there are still quite a few notable airports that JetBlue does not serve out of JFK.

On a separate news, more on the possible entry in Georgetown later this year.
http://curacaochronicle.com/aviation/je ... -imminent/
Based on the fares I see from JFK to GEO, it seems like a good opportunity.

After GEO, I would love to see them add places like PTY, BZE and BOG.

I do wonder if the 4 new stations Marty St George talked about includes BZN/HDN. If they do not, then I think the 4 this year will be MSP, ONT, GEO and IND.

tphuang wrote:

There are many routes that I think B6 should add out of JFK if slot wasn't an issue and DFW happens to be one of them.

I think they can add DFW-FLL, but it would have to survive mostly on connections and likely loose money.

The within perimeter routes that I think they can add out of JFK if slot isn't an issue and if they had the aircraft for them.
CLE, BDL, RIC, DTW, MSP, STL, IND, BNA, MEM, DFW

JFK-RIC was done in the past. I think they axed that in this decade. JFK-BNA was done the first time B6 was in Nashville, but I think that will come back in the future. JFK-DFW seems like a good add too especially if they make JFK-HOU work.

With the new terminal opening in Salt Lake City, could we see them add more flights there? Or Denver?

A second daily flight JFK-DEN was just added for fall, not sure if its new though.

SumChristianus wrote:

A second daily flight JFK-DEN was just added for fall, not sure if its new though.

Doesn't surprise me. They've had that route on MINT for quite awhile now (the second flight also appears to be on MINT as well), so it must be doing pretty well.