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dc10lover
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 2:29 am

N757ST wrote:
Jetblue pilots and management achieved an agreement in principle on Friday.

Delete
Last edited by dc10lover on Wed May 16, 2018 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of.
 
dc10lover
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 2:30 am

dc10lover wrote:
N757ST wrote:
Jetblue pilots and management achieved an agreement in principle on Friday.


Good luck to them.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of.
 
6YBLUE
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Thu May 17, 2018 4:18 am

BOS-DFW is stuck at 2 flights a day. B6 has not been able to make any inroads into American’s operation there, which is probably why they haven’t tried JFK-DFW or FLL-DFW. I don’t see them adding much, if anything, to DFW anytime soon.[/quote]


On the contrary, both flights have high load factors the majority of the time with some flights sold out weeks in advance. The problem with BOS-DFW were yields which have steadily increased, as well as lack of equipment. A 3rd flight would be welcome and return the route to the original frequency when launched 6 years ago.
As far as DFW-JFK/FLL is only a matter of time.
 
Blerg
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Thu May 17, 2018 4:49 am

Don't they also fly three daily between BOS and ORD where some of the flights are on the Embraer? That seems like too little capacity to me.
 
tphuang
Posts: 1913
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sat May 19, 2018 12:42 am

Yes, BOS-ORD capacity is lower than it should be. They've added 2 flights for most of the year. Much needed if you ask me. And I'm hoping to see some efforts to retaliate against DL entrance into BOS-PHL and also beefing up some other markets.

Couple of interesting points this week. Looks like from their pilot forum that the next 2 destinations with be GEO and PTY. The first one I already posted about as being imminent, so I'm not surprised it will happen. Most likely once daily flights from JFK and FLL. The second one is a little less expected. I did think they would add it, but not necessarily this year. My guess will be once daily flight from FLL, but hoping to see JFK/BOS flights also. After that, I think FLL will be pretty close to covering all the major markets in the Caribbean region. From central America, they can still add to SAL/GUA/MGA/BZE at some point down the line. Although PTY is the biggest one and imo is a must add.

The other interesting point this week is their plan to have 14 gates and 100+ flights at MCO.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... al-448695/
This will easily make them the second largest carrier at MCO and not that far from WN who has about 120+ flight a day right now. I will look at how they might be able to get there from the current 60 to 70 flights a day at a later post.
 
Fex180
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sat May 19, 2018 2:13 am

Outside of BOS does B6 have any room left to expand in New England? The biggest obvious hole is MHT which seems to be a persistent rumor, but is there any room to expand in medium sized markets like PWM and PVD ?? It almost seems like B6 is putting all of their eggs in one basket in New England with BOS
 
Blerg
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sat May 19, 2018 5:44 am

I see that B6 has quite a few aircraft on order, anyone knows when they are due for delivery? How many are they getting this year?
 
tphuang
Posts: 1913
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sat May 19, 2018 7:57 pm

Currently, B6 is running about low 60s to high 60s in the average number of daily flights out of MCO. With their growth plan of 100+ flights, they would need to add about 35 flights. Thus far, the vast majority of their flight to MCO are from NorthEast. If they can get to 100+ flights, then they have a shot of sharing MCO point of sale with WN. So the question is how to get there.

As I said in another thread, they need to focus on their strength against WN, which are NorthEast, international and transcon. The legacies aren't going to add that much more from MCO. NK is concentrated on FLL. There are no domestic carrier with a lot international flights out of MCO. So they can position MCO as a secondary hub to Latin America after FLL. A hub in Texas would be more ideal as a secondary hub to Latin America, but B6 doesn't have that luxury.

They currently already fly to SJU/BQN/PSE/HAV/MEX/BOG/MBJ/NAS/PAP/SJO/SDQ out of MCO. Including PR, they have the most number of flights to Latin America already. The question is where could they add. I think they can certainly add more flights to PR. They capture strong PR point of sale and dominates WN in yields on MCO-SJU. They could add another 2 to 3 flights to PR as VFR traffic increases. They could also add flights to MEX/NAS/PAP over time. New destinations they can add include PTY/LIM/KIN/PUJ/GCM. And if B6 ever decides to enter Canada, YYZ/YUL are obvious targets to add. If A321LR can be added down the road, then LGW/GRU/GIG are all possible locations. Adding some of these international cities would really distinguish B6 from WN at MCO. So, I think at least 10 more flights can be added internationally + PR.

Domestically, there are still many dots not connected to MCO. There are some airports like CHS/SAV/ABQ that B6 current flies to, but have no service at all to MCO which might be able to support service. There are additional smaller airports like TLH/MYR/PEN which B6 doesn't fly to, but may be able to support both FLL/MCO service. And then there are existing B6 stations that should be able to support MCO service like IAD/RDU/CLE/PIT/DTW/MSY/MSP. Problem is a lot of these already have heavy WN/legacy + ULCC competition. I've left out DEN/DFW/HOU/ORD/PHL which seem too competitive to enter. There are also cities with no B6 service but seems underserved like MEM/CVG. It seems to me that B6 would have to at least add 10 to 15 flights from these routes to really build up its MCO operations.

And considering their better product over WN on transcon market, B6 should also add routes like SFO/SAN/PDX/LAS. B6 can be the carrier of choice from MCO point of sale while also distinguish itself as having the best product on those routes. I don't think you will ever see mint out of MCO. The yields are too low. They will probably start off with a lot of red-eyes.

And finally, I think you will also see additional flights from NorthEast as JFK looses slot restriction and possible added service to airports like PVD/BUF/SWF/ROC/PWM/ISP.

Realistically most of these adds will face a lot of pressure from WN, but there is certainly a path to another 30 to 40 flights.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sat May 19, 2018 8:09 pm

Blerg wrote:
Don't they also fly three daily between BOS and ORD where some of the flights are on the Embraer? That seems like too little capacity to me.

The limiting factor for ORD is gate space, they only have 1 gate assigned, although they borrow from NK if needed for IRROPS purposes. I think from memory they do 9 to 10 turns a day on that one gate.
Remember folks in places like ORD, ATL, DFW, LGA they are not there to build an operation, they are there to make sure they have a presence for their corporate customers. That’s the whole reason why they started BOS-ATL after it was requested. They could put 320’s on all the flights to BOS tonincrease the capacity, but not sure they need it. They really need a 2nd gate to ease congestion and allow for a limited extra couple of flights to improve frequency against the likes of UA and AA. But they are not in these places necessarily to poke gorillas, it’s more to do with the fact that they have to be in order to satisfy their customer base.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sat May 19, 2018 9:16 pm

Blerg wrote:
I see that B6 has quite a few aircraft on order, anyone knows when they are due for delivery? How many are they getting this year?


you can see in their annual report
http://blueir.investproductions.com/~/m ... report.pdf

They got 14 in 2016, 16 in 2017, 10 this year and 13 next year. All A321s. They supposedly have 6 A320, 7 A321 and 10 E90s in 2020. I'm willing to bet that's not going to happen. I think A320s will all be A321 and some will be LR. E90s will probably be replaced by C Series. And then 20 A320/321NEOs in 2021/2022 and 14 A321NEO in 2023. How many A320s they actually take is hard to say. I'm not convinced they take any more A320s at this point.
 
Planeboy17
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sun May 20, 2018 12:04 am

VS4ever wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Don't they also fly three daily between BOS and ORD where some of the flights are on the Embraer? That seems like too little capacity to me.

The limiting factor for ORD is gate space, they only have 1 gate assigned, although they borrow from NK if needed for IRROPS purposes. I think from memory they do 9 to 10 turns a day on that one gate.
Remember folks in places like ORD, ATL, DFW, LGA they are not there to build an operation, they are there to make sure they have a presence for their corporate customers. That’s the whole reason why they started BOS-ATL after it was requested. They could put 320’s on all the flights to BOS tonincrease the capacity, but not sure they need it. They really need a 2nd gate to ease congestion and allow for a limited extra couple of flights to improve frequency against the likes of UA and AA. But they are not in these places necessarily to poke gorillas, it’s more to do with the fact that they have to be in order to satisfy their customer base.

Exactly correct. They now have been moved from L5 to L2 so NK can have the north side of L to themselves. Talk is next year they will move to G and may possibly receive another gate but they’ll have to increase their schedule for the city to provide it. They don’t want to go above 9 flights for one gate, they tried ten flights a couple of years back and it was a disaster.
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sun May 20, 2018 12:28 am

Planeboy17 wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Don't they also fly three daily between BOS and ORD where some of the flights are on the Embraer? That seems like too little capacity to me.

The limiting factor for ORD is gate space, they only have 1 gate assigned, although they borrow from NK if needed for IRROPS purposes. I think from memory they do 9 to 10 turns a day on that one gate.
Remember folks in places like ORD, ATL, DFW, LGA they are not there to build an operation, they are there to make sure they have a presence for their corporate customers. That’s the whole reason why they started BOS-ATL after it was requested. They could put 320’s on all the flights to BOS tonincrease the capacity, but not sure they need it. They really need a 2nd gate to ease congestion and allow for a limited extra couple of flights to improve frequency against the likes of UA and AA. But they are not in these places necessarily to poke gorillas, it’s more to do with the fact that they have to be in order to satisfy their customer base.

Exactly correct. They now have been moved from L5 to L2 so NK can have the north side of L to themselves. Talk is next year they will move to G and may possibly receive another gate but they’ll have to increase their schedule for the city to provide it. They don’t want to go above 9 flights for one gate, they tried ten flights a couple of years back and it was a disaster.

The problem is while they can support 10 flight schedule in summer time, they haven’t been able to do so in winter time. It’s about time JetBlue grows up and take some lumps in Chicago. It’s too big of a market to only us one gate. They should also add back sju if they need more flight to justify a second gate.
 
WNflyer1523
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sun May 20, 2018 1:14 am

tphuang wrote:

And finally, I think you will also see additional flights from NorthEast as JFK looses slot restriction and possible added service to airports like PVD/BUF/SWF/ROC/PWM/ISP.

Realistically most of these adds will face a lot of pressure from WN, but there is certainly a path to another 30 to 40 flights.

I highly doubt JetBlue would want to come into ISP. ISP-MCO is already ran numerous times daily on both Southwest and Frontier.
 
Fex180
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sun May 20, 2018 1:44 am

WNflyer1523 wrote:
tphuang wrote:

And finally, I think you will also see additional flights from NorthEast as JFK looses slot restriction and possible added service to airports like PVD/BUF/SWF/ROC/PWM/ISP.

Realistically most of these adds will face a lot of pressure from WN, but there is certainly a path to another 30 to 40 flights.

I highly doubt JetBlue would want to come into ISP. ISP-MCO is already ran numerous times daily on both Southwest and Frontier.


b6 is going to have to up their game in markets like PWM, PVD and SYR if they want to stay competitive with Frontier.
 
boxeebox
Posts: 43
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sun May 20, 2018 11:55 am

tphuang wrote:
Planeboy17 wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
The limiting factor for ORD is gate space, they only have 1 gate assigned, although they borrow from NK if needed for IRROPS purposes. I think from memory they do 9 to 10 turns a day on that one gate.
Remember folks in places like ORD, ATL, DFW, LGA they are not there to build an operation, they are there to make sure they have a presence for their corporate customers. That’s the whole reason why they started BOS-ATL after it was requested. They could put 320’s on all the flights to BOS tonincrease the capacity, but not sure they need it. They really need a 2nd gate to ease congestion and allow for a limited extra couple of flights to improve frequency against the likes of UA and AA. But they are not in these places necessarily to poke gorillas, it’s more to do with the fact that they have to be in order to satisfy their customer base.

Exactly correct. They now have been moved from L5 to L2 so NK can have the north side of L to themselves. Talk is next year they will move to G and may possibly receive another gate but they’ll have to increase their schedule for the city to provide it. They don’t want to go above 9 flights for one gate, they tried ten flights a couple of years back and it was a disaster.

The problem is while they can support 10 flight schedule in summer time, they haven’t been able to do so in winter time. It’s about time JetBlue grows up and take some lumps in Chicago. It’s too big of a market to only us one gate. They should also add back sju if they need more flight to justify a second gate.


SJU-ORD was changed to SJU-FLL-ORD. It's a through flight (#566). Flight #563 operates ORD-FLL-SJU.
 
Buddys747
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sun May 20, 2018 12:17 pm

In regards to the expanding flights at MCO, MDT-MCO would be a good market. There are many from this area that travel to BWI on WN or PHL on WN/AA for the nonstop flights. FL ran 2 daily from here from originally being just one. I know it’s not a huge market but one that would more than likely be profitable, and would not be competing directly with WN. I think 2x daily would be a good start, along with MDT-FLL. Not sure how MDT-BOS would do, AA has one flight a day, and the airport has said the only way B6 would come here is if they can guarantee full planes to BOS. I know F9 is starting MDT-MCO, but at 2 weekly flights, there will still be a lot of people preferring the alternate airport at that frequency.
ABE would also be another possibility, they had basically the same FL service MDT had.
 
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chrisnh
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sun May 20, 2018 6:24 pm

Fex180 wrote:
Outside of BOS does B6 have any room left to expand in New England? The biggest obvious hole is MHT which seems to be a persistent rumor, but is there any room to expand in medium sized markets like PWM and PVD ?? It almost seems like B6 is putting all of their eggs in one basket in New England with BOS


If they came to MHT before Southwest goes to BTV they’d be able to say they serve all six New England states.
 
Fex180
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sun May 20, 2018 6:33 pm

chrisnh wrote:
Fex180 wrote:
Outside of BOS does B6 have any room left to expand in New England? The biggest obvious hole is MHT which seems to be a persistent rumor, but is there any room to expand in medium sized markets like PWM and PVD ?? It almost seems like B6 is putting all of their eggs in one basket in New England with BOS


If they came to MHT before Southwest goes to BTV they’d be able to say they serve all six New England states.


I highly doubt WN will ever go to BTV, given how uninterested they seem to be in New England in general. b6 could outmaneuver LCC / ULCC competition in every New England market if they really wanted to.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sun May 20, 2018 6:39 pm

I think B6 will beat WN to Canada.
Funnel a mixture of Canadian passengers to Orlando and connecting traffic to tropical destinations via MCO.
JetBlue could also up its Red Eye game to include West coast flights to MCO.
Again connecting options to tropical destinations. Returning from MCO to the west coast in late afternoon.
I don't see WN doing red eye to the extreme anytime soon and JetBlue is already the LCC king of them.

Anything possible.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
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chrisnh
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sun May 20, 2018 7:08 pm

Can either of these airlines just ‘go’ to Canada on their say-so, or do Canadian authorities need to approve any services with restrictions (Obviously to protect their own flag-carriers)?
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sun May 20, 2018 8:16 pm

I think so. There is open skies between US and Canada. Historically, AC had always dominated transborder flights, because Canada side dominate the point of sale. And when adding in all the fees/taxes, it's been hard for LCCs to undercut legacy carriers. But given that JetBlue does win point of sale at BOS/FLL and have no Canadian competition at JFK, it really should think about adding Canada at some point. YYZ/YUL are too important of a market to ignore long term.
 
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bdlflyer
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sun May 20, 2018 8:30 pm

[threeid][/threeid]
Fex180 wrote:
Outside of BOS does B6 have any room left to expand in New England? The biggest obvious hole is MHT which seems to be a persistent rumor, but is there any room to expand in medium sized markets like PWM and PVD ?? It almost seems like B6 is putting all of their eggs in one basket in New England with BOS


I would love to see B6 expand their service at BDL. The DCA route has fared well for them; which makes me wonder if they could possibly make service to BNA or MSY from BDL work with a E190? Also I know at some point there were rumors about MBJ; could that be another opportunity as well?
Bradley International Airport (BDL) | Gateway to New England | ❤️ Love The Journey | New England's second largest airport
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sun May 20, 2018 11:24 pm

If the "Intra-Florida" service that's lacking doesn't get RSW/PGD/SRQ to FLL added, I'd happily take upguaging from the current Silver Saabs to atleast E190s say 2x daily from RSW to MCO, allowing connections to everything that makes no sense to fly to JFK/BOS for. in other words most of the country. They need to do this somehow to get the customer base down here one or another to become loyal, and no one will do that without access to the west without ridiculous connections up north.

Secondly a certain company would love to see MCO-BUR I am certain of it, especially now with AS decimating VX routes and pulling out of both FLL-LAX and MCO-LAX. DTW-MCO just needs to happen already, it would be a hit with the DTW crowd, and give a whole new DTW traveler group the chance to experience B6. believe it or not, completely different travel groups fly DTW-FLL, DTW-BOS, DTW-MCO.

Third, B6 is massively successful with their code-share agreements in BOS and JFK, but especially BOS. I can't tell you all how many people I've routed as #1 choice to EK/EI, just over and over. Latest one was RSW-BOS-DXB-BLR

Very excited to the next 2 years at B6!
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
fedex1
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon May 21, 2018 12:25 am

Why would they add IND or CVG??
 
fedex1
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon May 21, 2018 12:25 am

Why would they add IND o??
 
fedex1
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon May 21, 2018 12:26 am

Why would they add IND over CVG???
 
fedex1
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon May 21, 2018 1:33 am

No sir. I don’t drink, my phone locked up. Excuse my screw ups.
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon May 21, 2018 2:00 am

At some point, they would have to add both IND and CVG out of BOS, because DL is milking those routes. At this point, they might not enter either this year if they are adding GEO and PTY.

NWADTWE16 wrote:
If the "Intra-Florida" service that's lacking doesn't get RSW/PGD/SRQ to FLL added, I'd happily take upguaging from the current Silver Saabs to atleast E190s say 2x daily from RSW to MCO, allowing connections to everything that makes no sense to fly to JFK/BOS for. in other words most of the country. They need to do this somehow to get the customer base down here one or another to become loyal, and no one will do that without access to the west without ridiculous connections up north.

Secondly a certain company would love to see MCO-BUR I am certain of it, especially now with AS decimating VX routes and pulling out of both FLL-LAX and MCO-LAX. DTW-MCO just needs to happen already, it would be a hit with the DTW crowd, and give a whole new DTW traveler group the chance to experience B6. believe it or not, completely different travel groups fly DTW-FLL, DTW-BOS, DTW-MCO.

Third, B6 is massively successful with their code-share agreements in BOS and JFK, but especially BOS. I can't tell you all how many people I've routed as #1 choice to EK/EI, just over and over. Latest one was RSW-BOS-DXB-BLR

Very excited to the next 2 years at B6!

That's interesting thought of adding RSW-MCO flight. Makes a lot of sense if they are expanding at MCO. Although it might be a connection only route, which they are not big into. Generally, I agree they should try more intra-florida routes, even non-focus city routes like RSW-JAX.

Is there space for B6 on DTW-MCO with both DL/NK already having so much capacity? JetBlue really doesn't do very well on DTW-FLL. Probably surviving on connection traffic.
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon May 21, 2018 2:07 am

JetBlue does fine on DTW-FLL, they may not be 100% full, but I'm always looking and its got to be 80% or higher every day, give or take a few. DL matches them on that flight price only, and they both don't go lower than $224 one way, which is profitable at 80% LF, plus the ancillaries, like EMS and Bags. I don't think they've added a second, because their focus from DTW has been on BOS, which is a success at 3 daily, and swaps between 3 A320's and an E190 here and there. They run Business clients out early, and a ton of International connections on their DTW-BOS service.

Now that DTW people have had B6 and supported it for years I feel they would come in with MCO, and not print money, but open a valuable valve for more connections to the carribean/LATAM/Central America and Brazil, all of which more and more Detroiters are becoming hip to. The icing on that cake would be the constant Mickey traffic which never ends.

What would really be a curveball for them but I think might work, would be DTW-LGB, or DTW-LAX. Someone else needs to join that market, I hoped VX would but that has died. It would be an oddball, but hey no more odd than BUF-LAX
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
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flymco753
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon May 21, 2018 2:25 am

NWADTWE16 wrote:
JetBlue does fine on DTW-FLL, they may not be 100% full, but I'm always looking and its got to be 80% or higher every day, give or take a few. DL matches them on that flight price only, and they both don't go lower than $224 one way, which is profitable at 80% LF, plus the ancillaries, like EMS and Bags. I don't think they've added a second, because their focus from DTW has been on BOS, which is a success at 3 daily, and swaps between 3 A320's and an E190 here and there. They run Business clients out early, and a ton of International connections on their DTW-BOS service.

Now that DTW people have had B6 and supported it for years I feel they would come in with MCO, and not print money, but open a valuable valve for more connections to the carribean/LATAM/Central America and Brazil, all of which more and more Detroiters are becoming hip to. The icing on that cake would be the constant Mickey traffic which never ends.

What would really be a curveball for them but I think might work, would be DTW-LGB, or DTW-LAX. Someone else needs to join that market, I hoped VX would but that has died. It would be an oddball, but hey no more odd than BUF-LAX
LGB is laughable, LAX is a stretch. B6 will do nothing more than add a daily MCO and maybe 2x daily JFK. FLL is performing poorly due to the yields that NK is putting up. The single reason why B6 could make MCO work is because people use the added fees. It's not rare that a family would check a large and heavy bag for the family and small bags for the kids.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
CobaltScar
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon May 21, 2018 12:55 pm

Plenty of places to go from MCO, its a issue of not enough aircraft right now. I'd forget about MCO to FLL/MIA though. The new high speed train is going all the way to the airport in MCO and it just won't be worth the hassle to fly for most people. RSW to MCO and MCO/FLL to the panhandle might work.

Service to key west would be great too, but I think there is a issue with the e190's on that runway when its wet.
 
evank516
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon May 21, 2018 1:14 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
Plenty of places to go from MCO, its a issue of not enough aircraft right now. I'd forget about MCO to FLL/MIA though. The new high speed train is going all the way to the airport in MCO and it just won't be worth the hassle to fly for most people. RSW to MCO and MCO/FLL to the panhandle might work.

Service to key west would be great too, but I think there is a issue with the e190's on that runway when its wet.


Which is why they need the CSeries. The CS100 can handle EYW, and they can do it from JFK and BOS too.

Still hoping for a second DAB flight, at least from like February/March until May. I think they can manage it.
 
Brickell305
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon May 21, 2018 2:26 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
Plenty of places to go from MCO, its a issue of not enough aircraft right now. I'd forget about MCO to FLL/MIA though. The new high speed train is going all the way to the airport in MCO and it just won't be worth the hassle to fly for most people. RSW to MCO and MCO/FLL to the panhandle might work.

Service to key west would be great too, but I think there is a issue with the e190's on that runway when its wet.

I'm pretty certain that FLL-MCO is to facilitate connections on both ends and not for local traffic. Most local traffic already drives. The high speed train will take away from that local traffic that drives. It won't have a significant impact on connections.
 
evank516
Posts: 1442
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon May 21, 2018 3:40 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
Plenty of places to go from MCO, its a issue of not enough aircraft right now. I'd forget about MCO to FLL/MIA though. The new high speed train is going all the way to the airport in MCO and it just won't be worth the hassle to fly for most people. RSW to MCO and MCO/FLL to the panhandle might work.

Service to key west would be great too, but I think there is a issue with the e190's on that runway when its wet.

I'm pretty certain that FLL-MCO is to facilitate connections on both ends and not for local traffic. Most local traffic already drives. The high speed train will take away from that local traffic that drives. It won't have a significant impact on connections.


The only thing about introducing intra-Florida service is that they are competing against their own codeshare partner.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon May 21, 2018 4:33 pm

BOS-IND
BOS-MCI
BOS-STL
 
NWADTWE16
Posts: 575
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:12 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon May 21, 2018 6:49 pm

They can have their code-share partner beef up their intra florida routes then, but I cant stand it when people just assume we drive and we like it, WE DONT!
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
tphuang
Posts: 1913
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon May 21, 2018 6:52 pm

There were definite talks of JetBlue adding service to Tallahassee a while back but it never worked out. I see no reason why is can’t happen down the road. Of course, they are probably going to add places like ind stl and cvg first.
 
tphuang
Posts: 1913
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Thu May 24, 2018 9:54 pm

More generic news, http://www.citizentribune.com/news/busi ... 31f66.html

Jetblue is pick FLL as the home of their travel product subsidiary. I wonder if we will see more of this kind of shift over time with the much lower corporate tax in Florida.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Thu May 24, 2018 10:21 pm

evank516 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
Plenty of places to go from MCO, its a issue of not enough aircraft right now. I'd forget about MCO to FLL/MIA though. The new high speed train is going all the way to the airport in MCO and it just won't be worth the hassle to fly for most people. RSW to MCO and MCO/FLL to the panhandle might work.

Service to key west would be great too, but I think there is a issue with the e190's on that runway when its wet.


Which is why they need the CSeries. The CS100 can handle EYW, and they can do it from JFK and BOS too.

Still hoping for a second DAB flight, at least from like February/March until May. I think they can manage it.


MEM had a PDEW of 100 a day to BOS with no direct service. It's rather business-centric and with potential O&D market stimulation of having a nonstop, it seems BOS/MEM would be a good fit for a CS100.

MEM, while being smaller than IND or CVG, would have no direct competition. It may trigger Delta to add BOS/MEM but I doubt it. Add in FLL and that would be a nice start. There's also no direct service to JFK so that's the next evolution of service.

But... they need to grow the mid America dots.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sun May 27, 2018 9:40 pm

Looks like one of the BOS-SEA flights has been re-timed (at least on Saturdays). Now departs 6 pm.
 
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Dieuwer
Posts: 365
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 6:09 pm

Recently flew JetBlue for the first time ORD-BOS and I have to say that ORD seems like a dump.
First of all, the ticket counters are hard to find since most of the terminal is occopied by AA. And hell will probably freeze over first before AA will direct to you a B6 desk. No signage whatsoever. Secondly, The flight departure monitors are so tiny, the departure data are very hard to read. The TSA Precheck line was fine though.
After security, the "L" side of the terminal is bare bones. And once again there is no signage but stuffed with AA display boards. Sure their is a tiny B6 display at the beginning of "L", but if you missed that you might wander around for a while wondering where B6 is supposed to depart from.

In summary, B6 needs to step up its game at ORD. Sue the airport if necessary to get what they need to run a quality operation. If not, perhaps it is an option to relocate to MDW?
 
tphuang
Posts: 1913
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 7:01 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Recently flew JetBlue for the first time ORD-BOS and I have to say that ORD seems like a dump.
First of all, the ticket counters are hard to find since most of the terminal is occopied by AA. And hell will probably freeze over first before AA will direct to you a B6 desk. No signage whatsoever. Secondly, The flight departure monitors are so tiny, the departure data are very hard to read. The TSA Precheck line was fine though.
After security, the "L" side of the terminal is bare bones. And once again there is no signage but stuffed with AA display boards. Sure their is a tiny B6 display at the beginning of "L", but if you missed that you might wander around for a while wondering where B6 is supposed to depart from.

In summary, B6 needs to step up its game at ORD. Sue the airport if necessary to get what they need to run a quality operation. If not, perhaps it is an option to relocate to MDW?

I think the plan is after ORD revamp happens, they will move to T5 with more counter space and another gate and won't be dominated by AA presence. But hopefully they can show enough of flights to ORD that they will get more space before then.
 
evank516
Posts: 1442
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 7:26 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Recently flew JetBlue for the first time ORD-BOS and I have to say that ORD seems like a dump.
First of all, the ticket counters are hard to find since most of the terminal is occopied by AA. And hell will probably freeze over first before AA will direct to you a B6 desk. No signage whatsoever. Secondly, The flight departure monitors are so tiny, the departure data are very hard to read. The TSA Precheck line was fine though.
After security, the "L" side of the terminal is bare bones. And once again there is no signage but stuffed with AA display boards. Sure their is a tiny B6 display at the beginning of "L", but if you missed that you might wander around for a while wondering where B6 is supposed to depart from.

In summary, B6 needs to step up its game at ORD. Sue the airport if necessary to get what they need to run a quality operation. If not, perhaps it is an option to relocate to MDW?


I flew them on JFK-ORD last year, and frankly, despite the 5 hour delay due to weather between New York and Chicago, it is what it is. It's O'Hare, and jetBlue's presence there is essentially token. They fly there just so they can say they fly there so they can attract their customer base on the east coast to use them for travel to Chicago. L is connected with the rest of the facilities throughout terminal 3 so if you want better amenities, take a quick walk. It's not that far. I found my gate just fine there as well.
 
tphuang
Posts: 1913
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:03 am

At some point, B6 will need to add a new focus city to expand into. I think the only airport with enough gate space and catchment area that makes even remote sense is IAD. They already have a focus city type of operation at DCA of 30 flights. I think B6 can build an operation of 40 to 50 flights at IAD to compliment their 30 flights at DCA. DCA is maxed out and Northern Virginia is growing. The condition for IAD blossoming is there, even if it has been stagnant for many years. Just like their successful expansion at JFK, B6’s low cost may make certain flights more workable than for a legacy carrier. IAD may be UA’s least profitable profitable focus city. Airline industry isn’t going to stay in this high cycle forever. During a downturn, IAD is the most likely airport to be disregarded by UA. B6 may find it an opportunity like it did with JFK/BOS back in the days.

To start off, I think B6 should move the JAX/PBI/TPA to IAD and use those slots to enter LGA slots. Looking at fares numbers as below, I don’t think they will do that much worse at IAD. Here is numbers based on 2017 Q4 data.
CityPair Distance Carrier Boarded AvgFare LF AvgAsm
DCABOS 399 AA 211303 173.63 79.20% 137.52
DCABOS 399 YX 5070 191.12 81.35% 155.48
DCABOS 399 B6 132529 162.26 77.78% 126.2
IADBOS 413 B6 37623 156.32 73.05% 114.2
IADBOS 413 UA 99695 171.85 84.08% 144.48
IADBOS 413 YV 2114 207.77 94.38% 196.09

DCAMIA 919 AA 209646 184.26 82.71% 152.41
DCAFLL 899 WN 42387 133.74 80.45% 107.59
DCAFLL 899 B6 78069 164.38 86.36% 141.96
IADFLL 901 WN 18764 117.40 64.42% 75.63
IADFLL 901 UA 47041 179.53 76.41% 137.19
DCAMCO 759 AA 102130 145.18 89.89% 130.5
DCAMCO 759 WN 50775 121.28 93.59% 113.51
DCAMCO 759 B6 73119 145.05 86.53% 125.52
IADMCO 758 WN 26071 105.19 91.67% 96.42
IADMCO 758 F9 29255 69.55 89.03% 61.92
IADMCO 758 UA 112745 178.37 92.42% 164.85
DCATPA 814 AA 66373 171.67 84.45% 144.98
DCATPA 814 WN 48003 143.83 91.61% 131.76
DCATPA 814 B6 15751 156.47 85.60% 133.94
IADTPA 811 UA 73488 180.24 88.79% 160.04
DCAJAX 634 OH 1196 200.95 93.15% 187.18
DCAJAX 634 YX 20108 180.86 84.53% 152.88
DCAJAX 634 B6 28942 144.96 79.08% 114.63
DCAJAX 634 ZW 5622 177.83 88.54% 157.44
IADJAX 630 YV 18562 183.29 90.73% 166.31

DCACHS 444 OH 32655 159.26 84.73% 134.95
DCACHS 444 YX 3709 154.51 85.62% 132.29
DCACHS 444 B6 29608 127.87 79.59% 101.77
IADCHS 441 ZW 2750 137.09 88.71% 121.61
IADCHS 441 YV 34961 157.20 91.08% 143.19
DCABDL 313 ZW 2742 149.97 88.45% 132.65
DCABDL 313 OH 14644 158.58 81.43% 129.13
DCABDL 313 YX 20005 146.15 84.64% 123.7
DCABDL 313 B6 25386 118.20 77.87% 92.05
IADBDL 326 UA 20796 151.10 86.19% 130.24
IADBDL 326 YV 31844 157.16 93.59% 147.09
DCABUF 296 OH 7274 170.52 81.28% 138.6
DCABUF 296 YX 15457 151.32 63.56% 96.17
IADBUF 283 ZW 11888 169.80 86.77% 147.35
IADBUF 283 YV 8408 199.46 87.04% 173.6
DCARDU 227 G7 25965 134.64 73.41% 98.84
DCARDU 227 OH 27013 175.46 81.94% 143.78
DCARDU 227 9E 2797 146.05 51.83% 75.7
DCARDU 227 YX 17839 164.45 80.66% 132.65
IADRDU 224 UA 43580 147.67 76.85% 113.48
IADRDU 224 YV 23390 165.65 93.58% 155.02
DCAPWM 482 OH 38671 166.01 77.49% 128.65
IADPWM 493 ZW 7118 172.49 90.68% 156.4
DCAPVD 356 OH 32469 161.25 79.93% 128.88
DCAPVD 356 WN 40170 104.85 77.55% 81.31
DCAPVD 356 YX 1616 143.51 88.60% 127.14
IADPVD 371 ZW 4293 199.89 90.38% 180.65
IADPVD 371 YV 21031 158.11 89.68% 141.8
DCAALB 318 OH 20624 170.06 75.31% 128.07
DCAALB 318 ZW 12174 183.02 81.98% 150.04
IADALB 325 YV 4068 188.76 90.80% 171.4
DCAMSY 969 AA 17042 187.35 71.83% 134.58
DCAMSY 969 WN 43014 172.57 82.53% 142.43
DCAMSY 969 OH 9493 241.25 82.12% 198.11
DCAMSY 969 YX 18920 220.23 75.44% 166.14
IADMSY 955 UA 33264 210.63 80.32% 169.19
IADMSY 955 YV 6022 231.38 91.88% 212.6

In this case WN is doing 15 to 20% worse on IADMCO vs DCAMCO, but that maybe due to its smaller operation at IAD and worse schedule there. UA performance at IAD is a little better than AA performance at DCA. Now I know UA’s numbers are inflated due to its connection options and lack of competition, but I think the difference in yield much less than what WN has experienced. For example, B6’s yield difference on IAD/DCA-BOS is under 10%. With a larger operation and better schedule at IAD, B6 may narrow the yield difference even further. For example, B6 gets better yield at JFK vs LGA on the same routes despite the fact LGA is the preferred airport for New Yorkers.

Now, here are the yields of some beyond the perimeter cities.
CityPair Distance Carrier Boarded AvgFare LF AvgAsm
IADLAX 2288 AA 31026 270.58 91.47% 247.49
IADLAX 2288 VX 46917 258.15 90.96% 234.81
IADLAX 2288 UA 179392 343.39 87.30% 299.77
IADSFO 2419 VX 39613 317.67 69.04% 219.32
IADSFO 2419 UA 217208 421.58 77.25% 325.67
IADSAN 2253 UA 74985 436.66 83.60% 365.06
IADLAS 2065 F9 28382 91.560 86.64% 79.32
IADLAS 2065 UA 51618 285.77 93.05% 265.9
DCAAUS 1315 WN 28952 270.69 93.01% 251.76
IADAUS 1297 F9 12538 88.270 88.17% 77.82
IADAUS 1297 UA 26273 255.20 78.24% 199.67
IADAUS 1297 YV 23014 301.34 92.89% 279.91

All of this looks pretty good compared to the numbers I’ve seen out of JFK and BOS. Again, this is most likely inflated for UA due to its connections, but even VX’s number of LAX/SFO is better than its numbers out of BOS/JFK/EWR.

To start off, B6 should move its 6 flights to PBI/TPA/JAX to IAD from DCA and add additional flights of 2 daily to FLL/MCO along with one to RSW/SRQ. Add additional service to focus cities with at least 4 flights to JFK/BOS along with a daily flight to SJU. Add beyond perimeter flights, with multiple daily mint flights to SFO & LAX + flights to LAS/SAN/AUS/BUR/OAK (avoiding major legacy fortress hubs)

After that, B6 should look to replicate the success it has to the Caribbean from BOS/JFK. There is no reason DC & North Virginia area can’t eventually have as much Caribbean flying as Boston area. Starting with leisure, they can add daily flight to CUN/MBJ/PUJ/BGI/BDA + seasonal/sub daily schedule to places like AUA/CUR/GCM/PLS/NAS. If things go well, they can even start adding capital cities like BOG/PTY/SDQ/PAP/MEX that’s more heavy on VFR and business traffic.

Finally, they can look to add within perimeter flights to leisure locations like MSY/ACK/MVY/EYW and other places with good B6 presence and no dominant legacy presence like BUF/BDL/RDU/CHS/PVD/ALB/SAV. And if the performance up to this point is okay, they can look to expand further. I think MWAA will provide more gate access if B6 shows the desire to expand further. They have committed to expanding at MCO. Given the low yield nature there, I’m not sure they’d actually do better with an expansion there vs at IAD.
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:22 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Recently flew JetBlue for the first time ORD-BOS and I have to say that ORD seems like a dump.
First of all, the ticket counters are hard to find since most of the terminal is occopied by AA. And hell will probably freeze over first before AA will direct to you a B6 desk. No signage whatsoever. Secondly, The flight departure monitors are so tiny, the departure data are very hard to read. The TSA Precheck line was fine though.
After security, the "L" side of the terminal is bare bones. And once again there is no signage but stuffed with AA display boards. Sure their is a tiny B6 display at the beginning of "L", but if you missed that you might wander around for a while wondering where B6 is supposed to depart from.

In summary, B6 needs to step up its game at ORD. Sue the airport if necessary to get what they need to run a quality operation. If not, perhaps it is an option to relocate to MDW?

They were forced to move from L5 to L2 recently from the city. L5 was their gate for several years but the city moved B6 to L2 so NK can have all of the gates on the north side of L. L2 is a red headed stepchild of a gate. It was one of the gates AA was forced to give up after the merger. Frontier took it over and the gate never got much love and attention. B6 is supposed to move to G sometime next year.
 
Blerg
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:12 am

What about Texas? Could we see them expand there in the future and where from?
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1433
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:24 am

If JetBlue wanted to move most if not all of their flights to Burbank, is this possible and is there enough gate space?
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of.
 
tphuang
Posts: 1913
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:03 pm

Blerg wrote:
What about Texas? Could we see them expand there in the future and where from?

I can't see them adding there anytime soon. Too much WN/AA/UA presence. AUS focus city is a pipe dream at this point imo. Although I get the feeling SAT is underserved and adding some flights there might work. They don't seem to be in much of a hurry. Still got a few airport in middle of the country like IND/STL/CVG/CMH/MCI that they need to add first.
 
Blerg
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:05 pm

tphuang wrote:
Blerg wrote:
What about Texas? Could we see them expand there in the future and where from?

I can't see them adding there anytime soon. Too much WN/AA/UA presence. AUS focus city is a pipe dream at this point imo. Although I get the feeling SAT is underserved and adding some flights there might work. They don't seem to be in much of a hurry. Still got a few airport in middle of the country like IND/STL/CVG/CMH/MCI that they need to add first.


I am still hoping they will expand in Chicago. They are quite weak there, even from their main hubs in New York and Boston. Most of their flights from New York are on Embraers from what I've seen.
 
tphuang
Posts: 1913
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:07 pm

Agreed. Chicago is probably the biggest weakness in their network given that BOS/NYC/FLL/MCO all should have a lot of demand there. They need more than 1 gate though.

Looking at JetBlue schedule extension. I don't see any major changes with mint. JFK-LAX is back at 11 daily.

Now, looking at frequencies out of BOS on major business routes for the 2019 Winter season
BOS-ORD -> 5 a day - so the increase they added a little while back is sticking through winter
BOS-ATL -> 5 a day - no reduction, sticking through while WN/NK cuts back
BOS-CLT -> 3 a day - again, increase they added got extended
BOS-RDU -> 6 a day - again, increase got extended
BOS-CLE/DTW/MSP -> 3 a day - all same schedule
BOS-PHL -> 6 a day - no change despite DL entrance
BOS-EWR -> 6 a day - pretty impressive if they can stick with this through the winter. They were as low as 2 a day on this last winter. 6 is their high for summer
BOS-DC Area -> 10 a day to DCA, 6 a day to BWI and 3 a day to IAD. No changes



Interestingly, EWR is at 31 daily flight in Jan/Feb, which is an increase over last year. Might get to 33 daily flight by March and April for the next extension. Definitely tight over there unless they can get more gates.
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