Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
eta unknown wrote:9W have trans-atlantic codeshares with AF/KL/DL & VS. The YYZ route, even via AMS, has less ME competition due to bilateral restrictions- witness PK kept YYZ, but cut JFK. I believe there are plans for gradual Asia region expansion, but that's about it at present.
dtw2hyd wrote:Probably not, definitely it shouldn't.
9hr flights are far more profitable than 14hr flights, in terms of fuel burn and crew cost.
India-USA ULH flights end up being 2-stop for most passengers. Defeats the purpose.
No airline/alliance can match SkyTeam's 1-stop option count, as 9W connects more Indian cities with AMS/CDG/LHR
Also, have you seen EK's load factors to the USA? There is a recent thread.
iyerhari wrote:EY also has a stake of approx. 25% in 9W and if I remember the papers well, Naresh Goyal was keen for the investment to tide through the wave of bad times. This is going to be interesting - DL and EY do not see each other eye to eye and EY has not been doing all that great in the US.
Flying Belgian wrote:Do you have the link ? I cannot find it...
Thx in advance !
factsonly wrote:Jet Airways has the benefit of not one, but multiple connections to North America via AMS/CDG:
tlecam wrote:If anything, I’d prefer that Jet expand the number of cities in India that they connect to CDG and AMS.
I believe that they added Chennai to Paris and Bangalore to AMS within the past 6 months to compliment Delhi and Mumbai.
anshabhi wrote:I would love to see the following happening (with B737Max)!!:
http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=jai-auh-cdg, ... 0x360&PM=*
all the routes are well inside the range of Max-8 .
tlecam wrote:If anything, I’d prefer that Jet expand the number of cities in India that they connect to CDG and AMS.
I believe that they added Chennai to Paris and Bangalore to AMS within the past 6 months to compliment Delhi and Mumbai.
CaliguyNYC wrote:DL giving up EWR-AMS is a big loss for 9W because EWR is probably the #1 US destination from India. DL’s 757 EWR-CDG is the min one can offer (premium pax will not like it especially on a total 18+ hour flight from India - all in). I think Jet should start EWR-AMS and SFO-AMS once they are part of the JV. Keeping YYZ-AMS also makes sense. KL can retime their SFO & YYZ flights to optimize customer choice and their hub waves.
anshabhi wrote:I would love to see the following happening (with B737Max)!!:
http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=jai-auh-cdg, ... 0x360&PM=*
all the routes are well inside the range of Max-8 .
anshabhi wrote:I think Jet airways is not allowed to operate direct flights to US because of copyright issues with another airline named Jet Aiways in US, who registered first.
LAX772LR wrote:anshabhi wrote:I think Jet airways is not allowed to operate direct flights to US because of copyright issues with another airline named Jet Aiways in US, who registered first.
That's not true by any means.
Ignoring the fact that 9W has already operated to the US; the quoted scenario isn't even the proper application of law:
trademark would bar "use" of a name or mark by a competing company, not copyright.
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:In hindsight it's such a shame 9W gave up on SFO. The timing dictating pulling back, but AI has found that link particularly profitable.
Kashmon wrote:Jet's goal is to be the feeder airline for overseas airlines.
Connecting India to the World is not its priority.
binayak wrote:Kashmon wrote:Jet's goal is to be the feeder airline for overseas airlines.
Connecting India to the World is not its priority.
So great info...........You must be the next CEO of the company . So all foreign airlines please take a note ..you don't have to physically enter India to serve it .you have 9W !! Till today I knew that only Indian media can talk about "priorities" of airlines ..now I see that there are many more who can just predict them.
By the way some questions for you..
Why didn't jet cancel their decade old 789 order?
Why is 9W trying to add new medium haul destinations with the 737 max they'll receive?
Why did jet give up regional business (ATR aircrafts) to focus more on int'l ops if it had to be a mere feeder airline internationally ?
To gain some brand recognition you always start as a feeder . Strong tie ups work once you are well prepared to go long haul. The only airline in India which is still avoiding such tie ups is AI and we all know their condition now.
Kashmon wrote:binayak wrote:Kashmon wrote:Jet's goal is to be the feeder airline for overseas airlines.
Connecting India to the World is not its priority.
So great info...........You must be the next CEO of the company . So all foreign airlines please take a note ..you don't have to physically enter India to serve it .you have 9W !! Till today I knew that only Indian media can talk about "priorities" of airlines ..now I see that there are many more who can just predict them.
By the way some questions for you..
Why didn't jet cancel their decade old 789 order?
Why is 9W trying to add new medium haul destinations with the 737 max they'll receive?
Why did jet give up regional business (ATR aircrafts) to focus more on int'l ops if it had to be a mere feeder airline internationally ?
To gain some brand recognition you always start as a feeder . Strong tie ups work once you are well prepared to go long haul. The only airline in India which is still avoiding such tie ups is AI and we all know their condition now.
thanks so much
but considering how old Jet is
the fact that they cannot sustain direct flights to North America is evidence of incompetence...
but then this is the same airline that is actively trying to reduce its market share in the Indian domestic market... ( soon it will be feeding nothing)
Can't wait till Indigo starts flying long haul- an airline who's business model is truly about connecting Indians and not being the "slave" carrier of foreign airlines.
Jet had such a huge head start but failed....
as for being the CEO
Last I checked Indigo despite being way younger has made more money than Jet....
anshabhi wrote:I think Jet airways is not allowed to operate direct flights to US because of copyright issues with another airline named Jet Aiways in US, who registered first.
lightsaber wrote:tlecam wrote:If anything, I’d prefer that Jet expand the number of cities in India that they connect to CDG and AMS.
I believe that they added Chennai to Paris and Bangalore to AMS within the past 6 months to compliment Delhi and Mumbai.
That would be the wisest course for 9W to connect more Indian cities to AMS and CDG.
Trying to do everything almost took under Jet before the GFC. What 9W needs is to use the range of the MAX to Asia and Europe and develop an Asian hub partner.
Lightsaber
binayak wrote:Interesting thread about my favorite airline so thought of posting
EY is currently in a bad situation and so 9W cannot only depend on them.
Let us compare 9W AF KL JV with UA LH JV.
UA-LH JV: The two airlines want primarily the India US traffic to be flowing through FRA hub and thus LH has connected FRA with with 4 destinations in India. However UA also flies EWR-BOM and EWR-DEL.with connections at EWR end. This means the traffic is flowing through both FRA and EWR so a choice is for the traveller to decide where to connect.
Similarly the 9W AF KL JV can make traffic flow through CDG, AMS and maybe BOM (??) in future . I think in the long run 9W will non stop from India to at least 2-3 US cities. Demand has always been increasing and in recent years 9W is trying to woo as many premium pax from BOM as possible. This further provokes them to start routes like BOM-JFK etc else there will be a huge market untapped. They have 10 789s in their order books .
The main drawback of the entire 9W JV is that there is no choice of timing to the traveller . Now there are a lot of premium pax who are not comfortable flying at wee hours at night . What 9W can do is have something like this
BOM 22:00 JFK 05:00
JFK 09:30 BOM 10:00
This will be like a late evening departure (from home) for most of the crowd instead of a mid night one. Plus allow 36 cities in India to have one stop to some cities of the US. Similar schedule for destinations like ORD etc can also be made . Pax to places like DTW , IAH, DFW , etc can still be funneled through AMS with KL.
binayak wrote:Interesting thread about my favorite airline so thought of posting
The main drawback of the entire 9W JV is that there is no choice of timing to the traveller . Now there are a lot of premium pax who are not comfortable flying at wee hours at night . What 9W can do is have something like this
BOM 22:00 JFK 05:00
JFK 09:30 BOM 10:00
This will be like a late evening departure (from home) for most of the crowd instead of a mid night one. Plus allow 36 cities in India to have one stop to some cities of the US. Similar schedule for destinations like ORD etc can also be made . Pax to places like DTW , IAH, DFW , etc can still be funneled through AMS with KL.
hohd wrote:9W should use its extensive code share advantage at AMS to fly to more destinations from AMS to India. They should add HYD and MAA and may be even COK or AMD. I think MAA to AMS would be better than the current MAA to CDG. Also 9W has failed in its US strategy, when AI and AC expanded and increased nonstops on the North America to India market, Jet did not act especially when the oil prices were low. Now I think it is too late.
lightsaber wrote:tlecam wrote:If anything, I’d prefer that Jet expand the number of cities in India that they connect to CDG and AMS.
I believe that they added Chennai to Paris and Bangalore to AMS within the past 6 months to compliment Delhi and Mumbai.
That would be the wisest course for 9W to connect more Indian cities to AMS and CDG.
Trying to do everything almost took under Jet before the GFC. What 9W needs is to use the range of the MAX to Asia and Europe and develop an Asian hub partner.
Lightsaber
CaliguyNYC wrote:I agree on timings. That said, would 9:30am allow for DL's first bank to arrive into JFK. For JFK-BOM nonstop to work, I think DL/9W need connections on both sides. So maybe a little latter. If they go any latter from 10am or so, the connection might get too long wrt west coast red eyes. So its either like a 10:30am latest departure or 3pm (to allow the 6am west coast flights to arrive). Anyway don't know how DL's JFK hub works other than there is a bank for 6pm EU flights.
vadodara wrote:CaliguyNYC wrote:I agree on timings. That said, would 9:30am allow for DL's first bank to arrive into JFK. For JFK-BOM nonstop to work, I think DL/9W need connections on both sides. So maybe a little latter. If they go any latter from 10am or so, the connection might get too long wrt west coast red eyes. So its either like a 10:30am latest departure or 3pm (to allow the 6am west coast flights to arrive). Anyway don't know how DL's JFK hub works other than there is a bank for 6pm EU flights.
DL tried both JFK & ATL non-stops to BOM. Didnt work. Granted, with a smaller aircraft it may be viable. DL also has a slightly better operation out of JFK these days.
However, what about BOM? Does/can 9W create a bank of flights to make it as a 'true' hub?
vadodara wrote:CaliguyNYC wrote:I agree on timings. That said, would 9:30am allow for DL's first bank to arrive into JFK. For JFK-BOM nonstop to work, I think DL/9W need connections on both sides. So maybe a little latter. If they go any latter from 10am or so, the connection might get too long wrt west coast red eyes. So its either like a 10:30am latest departure or 3pm (to allow the 6am west coast flights to arrive). Anyway don't know how DL's JFK hub works other than there is a bank for 6pm EU flights.
DL tried both JFK & ATL non-stops to BOM. Didnt work. Granted, with a smaller aircraft it may be viable. DL also has a slightly better operation out of JFK these days.
However, what about BOM? Does/can 9W create a bank of flights to make it as a 'true' hub?
CaliguyNYC wrote:VS flies the MAN-US flights because of much more UK origin, I think 9W flying the mentioned routes also makes sense because of Indian pax.
subramak1 wrote:DL should try now, the economy is about twice as big as 8 years ago when DL last flew to India. It could probably work but start with BOM . This will help Jet add additional feed into BOM . If they can work out an arrangement like DEL has in the international terminal to allow for immigration checks at final destination point, it would be great
Subu
DobboDobbo wrote:CaliguyNYC wrote:VS flies the MAN-US flights because of much more UK origin, I think 9W flying the mentioned routes also makes sense because of Indian pax.
Further to this, there is reason to beleive VS and Jet (in conjunction with other partners) are planning to route more India-US traffic via MAN:
https://blueswandaily.com/virgin-atlant ... -partners/
"It is understood that Virgin Atlantic is working on an arrangement with its shareholder Delta Air Lines and Indian carrier Jet Airways to support the strong demand for flights between India and both the UK and the US. Delta already has a partnership with Jet Airways to offer connections between the US and India via Amsterdam Schiphol, but a complementary arrangement is being discussed to potentially also route passengers via Manchester using both Jet Airways and Virgin Atlantic equipment."
klm617 wrote:With this being said then we should expect VS to start Detroit Manchester flights.
EddieDude wrote:klm617 wrote:With this being said then we should expect VS to start Detroit Manchester flights.
I think JFK or ATL make more sense for nonstop 9W or DL service to/from India. ATL because of its DL megahub status, with endless connections throughout the DL network in the U.S. and other markets. JFK because of its huge amount of O&D traffic plus some connection potential.
vadodara wrote:CaliguyNYC wrote:I agree on timings. That said, would 9:30am allow for DL's first bank to arrive into JFK. For JFK-BOM nonstop to work, I think DL/9W need connections on both sides. So maybe a little latter. If they go any latter from 10am or so, the connection might get too long wrt west coast red eyes. So its either like a 10:30am latest departure or 3pm (to allow the 6am west coast flights to arrive). Anyway don't know how DL's JFK hub works other than there is a bank for 6pm EU flights.
DL tried both JFK & ATL non-stops to BOM. Didnt work. Granted, with a smaller aircraft it may be viable. DL also has a slightly better operation out of JFK these days.
However, what about BOM? Does/can 9W create a bank of flights to make it as a 'true' hub?
CaliguyNYC wrote:binayak wrote:The main drawback of the entire 9W JV is that there is no choice of timing to the traveller . Now there are a lot of premium pax who are not comfortable flying at wee hours at night . What 9W can do is have something like this
BOM 22:00 JFK 05:00
JFK 09:30 BOM 10:00
This will be like a late evening departure (from home) for most of the crowd instead of a mid night one. Plus allow 36 cities in India to have one stop to some cities of the US. Similar schedule for destinations like ORD etc can also be made . Pax to places like DTW , IAH, DFW , etc can still be funneled through AMS with KL.
I agree on timings. That said, would 9:30am allow for DL's first bank to arrive into JFK. For JFK-BOM nonstop to work, I think DL/9W need connections on both sides. So maybe a little latter. If they go any latter from 10am or so, the connection might get too long wrt west coast red eyes. So its either like a 10:30am latest departure or 3pm (to allow the 6am west coast flights to arrive). Anyway don't know how DL's JFK hub works other than there is a bank for 6pm EU flights.