Recently I stumbled upon an article stating that Jet Airways (9W) was interested in returning to the US. But that was posted in late 2016. Over a year later, 9W has not made any gestures (as far as I know) of returning to EWR, JFK, or SFO. It also makes me wonder why they kept YYZ flights by rerouting it through Amsterdam instead of axing it like with EWR. Competition from UA, AI, and recently EK I guess?

They are entering a code share agreement with AF/KLM and Delta so I doubt there will be direct flights but there will be more options!!

I hope not. They need to make a profit and not showboat routes. Connections at AMS serve the purpose without the risk. Jet needs to run as a business.

9W have trans-atlantic codeshares with AF/KL/DL & VS. The YYZ route, even via AMS, has less ME competition due to bilateral restrictions- witness PK kept YYZ, but cut JFK. I believe there are plans for gradual Asia region expansion, but that's about it at present.

With fuel prices having increased 35% year over year it would be really foolish of them to return back to USA at this point in time. It is better to focus on NA via AMS CDG with AF KL as mentioned above by others.

I think Jet airways is not allowed to operate direct flights to US because of copyright issues with another airline named Jet Aiways in US, who registered first.

Jet Airways has the benefit of not one, but multiple connections to North America via AMS/CDG:

Example, today's JET Airways Departures to North America from AMS:

- 08:35 ATL 9W 8006 Jet Airways
- 09:20 DTW 9W 8013 Jet Airways
- 09:50 IAH 9W 8803 Jet Airways
- 09:50 SFO 9W 8815 Jet Airways
- 09:55 LAX 9W 8809 Jet Airways
- 09:55 JFK 9W 8002 Jet Airways
- 10:00 PDX 9W 8019 Jet Airways
- 10:15 SEA 9W 8020 Jet Airways
- 10:20 DTW 9W 8011 Jet Airways
- 10:20 SLC 9W 8022 Jet Airways
- 10:30 MSP 9W 8016 Jet Airways
- 10:35 ATL 9W 8007 Jet Airways
- 10:55 JFK 9W 8003 Jet Airways
- 11:15 BOS 9W 8009 Jet Airways
- 12:10 YYZ 9W 0234 Jet Airways
- 12:25 YYC 9W 8823 Jet Airways
- 12:25 ORD 9W 8813 Jet Airways
- 12:35 SFO 9W 8612 Jet Airways
- 12:45 LAX 9W 8810 Jet Airways
- 12:50 MSP 9W 8017 Jet Airways
- 13:00 DTW 9W 8012 Jet Airways
- 13:00 ATL 9W 8008 Jet Airways
- 13:20 IAD 9W 8801 Jet Airways
- 13:25 JFK 9W 8805 Jet Airways
- 14:30 MEX 9W 8892 Jet Airways
- 14:30 SEA 9W 8021 Jet Airways
- 14:35 BOS 9W 8010 Jet Airways
- 14:40 MCO 9W 7905 Jet Airways
- 15:15 MSP 9W 8018 Jet Airways
- 15:20 YUL 9W 8819 Jet Airways
- 15:20 YVR 9W 8821 Jet Airways
- 15:25 DTW 9W 8014 Jet Airways

and so it continues.........

Probably not, definitely it shouldn't.
9hr flights are far more profitable than 14hr flights, in terms of fuel burn and crew cost.
India-USA ULH flights end up being 2-stop for most passengers. Defeats the purpose.
No airline/alliance can match SkyTeam's 1-stop option count, as 9W connects more Indian cities with AMS/CDG/LHR

Also, have you seen EK's load factors to the USA? There is a recent thread.

eta unknown wrote:

9W have trans-atlantic codeshares with AF/KL/DL & VS. The YYZ route, even via AMS, has less ME competition due to bilateral restrictions- witness PK kept YYZ, but cut JFK. I believe there are plans for gradual Asia region expansion, but that's about it at present.

Plus they profit from the codeshare deal Westjet has with Air France-KLM. Westjet doesn't fly to Paris or Amsterdam themselves. That would leave those routes entirely to Air France-KLM which is not enough. Therefor they let Jet Airways operate the Amsterdam - Toronto flights.

In the USA this is a different story since the American codeshare partner for Air France-KLM is Delta. Unlike Westjet, Delta has a broad international network that includes Amsterdam and Paris. Together with Air France-KLM operating to the USA this is enough to fill the demand, they don't need Jet Airways as a third carrier within the group on these routes.

EY also has a stake of approx. 25% in 9W and if I remember the papers well, Naresh Goyal was keen for the investment to tide through the wave of bad times. This is going to be interesting - DL and EY do not see each other eye to eye and EY has not been doing all that great in the US.

dtw2hyd wrote:

Probably not, definitely it shouldn't.
9hr flights are far more profitable than 14hr flights, in terms of fuel burn and crew cost.
India-USA ULH flights end up being 2-stop for most passengers. Defeats the purpose.
No airline/alliance can match SkyTeam's 1-stop option count, as 9W connects more Indian cities with AMS/CDG/LHR

Also, have you seen EK's load factors to the USA? There is a recent thread.

Do you have the link ? I cannot find it...

Thx in advance !

iyerhari wrote:

EY also has a stake of approx. 25% in 9W and if I remember the papers well, Naresh Goyal was keen for the investment to tide through the wave of bad times. This is going to be interesting - DL and EY do not see each other eye to eye and EY has not been doing all that great in the US.

I was about to ask - how much is due to the masters in AUH wanting the feed through their hub not over flying it? Wasn’t that the idea behind the 9W purchase? Greater access to India?

I doubt it would be public access, but be curious to see the US traffic flow comparison between AUH, and AMS?

Flying Belgian wrote:

Do you have the link ? I cannot find it...

Thx in advance !

Here it is.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1391889

factsonly wrote:

Jet Airways has the benefit of not one, but multiple connections to North America via AMS/CDG:

LHR, too. Delta got Virgin Atlantic in on the action. AMS/CDG/LHR work great as scissor hubs USA/India.

If anything, I’d prefer that Jet expand the number of cities in India that they connect to CDG and AMS.

I believe that they added Chennai to Paris and Bangalore to AMS within the past 6 months to compliment Delhi and Mumbai.

9W is still not part of the transatlantic JV that KL/AF/DL have (you could say they are virtually part of it because cooperation is so tight, but it is not a JV with revenue and cost sharing and metal neutral). KL/AF have a metal neutral JV with Jet between EU and India (I believe). DL giving up EWR-AMS is a big loss for 9W because EWR is probably the #1 US destination from India. DL’s 757 EWR-CDG is the min one can offer (premium pax will not like it especially on a total 18+ hour flight from India - all in). I think Jet should start EWR-AMS and SFO-AMS once they are part of the JV. Keeping YYZ-AMS also makes sense. KL can retime their SFO & YYZ flights to optimize customer choice and their hub waves. The reason I picked these three airports for 9W to fly is because they are the biggest NA-India markets that see a lot of India origin pax. Just like VS flies the MAN-US flights because of much more UK origin, I think 9W flying the mentioned routes also makes sense because of Indian pax. On a side note, both EWR (for Manhattan business crowd) and SFO could stand to have a first class option to AMS. Aside from pax flying F all the way to India (and some top level execs still get those perks in those cities for long flights), it would give F on the long haul part for people who then connecting on a short KLM flight to EU. Just my 2 cents

tlecam wrote:

If anything, I’d prefer that Jet expand the number of cities in India that they connect to CDG and AMS.

I believe that they added Chennai to Paris and Bangalore to AMS within the past 6 months to compliment Delhi and Mumbai.

I would love to see the following happening (with B737Max)!!:

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=jai-auh-cdg, ... 0x360&PM=*

all the routes are well inside the range of Max-8 .

anshabhi wrote:

I would love to see the following happening (with B737Max)!!:

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=jai-auh-cdg, ... 0x360&PM=*

all the routes are well inside the range of Max-8 .

How does that help USA traffic? It will still be 2 stops if connecting through AMS/CDG/LHR.

Moreover DL/AF/KL will not be happy if 9W starts funneling passengers through EY's hub

tlecam wrote:

If anything, I’d prefer that Jet expand the number of cities in India that they connect to CDG and AMS.

I believe that they added Chennai to Paris and Bangalore to AMS within the past 6 months to compliment Delhi and Mumbai.

That would be the wisest course for 9W to connect more Indian cities to AMS and CDG.

Trying to do everything almost took under Jet before the GFC. What 9W needs is to use the range of the MAX to Asia and Europe and develop an Asian hub partner.

Lightsaber

CaliguyNYC wrote:

DL giving up EWR-AMS is a big loss for 9W because EWR is probably the #1 US destination from India. DL’s 757 EWR-CDG is the min one can offer (premium pax will not like it especially on a total 18+ hour flight from India - all in). I think Jet should start EWR-AMS and SFO-AMS once they are part of the JV. Keeping YYZ-AMS also makes sense. KL can retime their SFO & YYZ flights to optimize customer choice and their hub waves.

Hmm, easy enough for DL/KL to add those xxx-AMS flights if they think the volume and fares are there. Delta has been working TATL destinations and frequencies pretty hard just to keep flying up to comply with JV rules for the pilots..

anshabhi wrote:

I would love to see the following happening (with B737Max)!!:

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=jai-auh-cdg, ... 0x360&PM=*

all the routes are well inside the range of Max-8 .

Jet moving its scissor hub from BRU to AMS was part one of the plan. Part two was adding narrowbody flights between AUH and second/third tier Indian cities to connect with Ethiad's flights to North America. The AMS scissor hub was to be primarily a hub for European connections.

In hindsight it's such a shame 9W gave up on SFO. The timing dictating pulling back, but AI has found that link particularly profitable.

anshabhi wrote:

I think Jet airways is not allowed to operate direct flights to US because of copyright issues with another airline named Jet Aiways in US, who registered first.

That's not true by any means.

Ignoring the fact that 9W has already operated to the US; the quoted scenario isn't even the proper application of law:
trademark would bar "use" of a name or mark by a competing company, not copyright.

I was in a LHR hotel the other day (around 3.5 stars) and it happened to be their (9W) crew hotel.

So, I was sitting in the lounge and they all started coming down and sat down around me. They initiated a few smiles. The purser was giving a brief and I must say, the brief was so enjoyable to hear and so professional. The purser sounded like a pleasure to work with (I told her that). It’s an airline that seems to genuinely uphold service and safety to the highest standards and promotes an enjoyable working environment.

Anyways, back to the topic...

LAX772LR wrote:

anshabhi wrote:

I think Jet airways is not allowed to operate direct flights to US because of copyright issues with another airline named Jet Aiways in US, who registered first.

That's not true by any means.

Ignoring the fact that 9W has already operated to the US; the quoted scenario isn't even the proper application of law:
trademark would bar "use" of a name or mark by a competing company, not copyright.

Allegedly, US Treasury took more than a year to figure out who really owns the airline.

Interesting thread about my favorite airline so thought of posting
EY is currently in a bad situation and so 9W cannot only depend on them.
Let us compare 9W AF KL JV with UA LH JV.
UA-LH JV: The two airlines want primarily the India US traffic to be flowing through FRA hub and thus LH has connected FRA with with 4 destinations in India. However UA also flies EWR-BOM and EWR-DEL.with connections at EWR end. This means the traffic is flowing through both FRA and EWR so a choice is for the traveller to decide where to connect.
Similarly the 9W AF KL JV can make traffic flow through CDG, AMS and maybe BOM (??) in future . I think in the long run 9W will non stop from India to at least 2-3 US cities. Demand has always been increasing and in recent years 9W is trying to woo as many premium pax from BOM as possible. This further provokes them to start routes like BOM-JFK etc else there will be a huge market untapped. They have 10 789s in their order books .
The main drawback of the entire 9W JV is that there is no choice of timing to the traveller . Now there are a lot of premium pax who are not comfortable flying at wee hours at night . What 9W can do is have something like this
BOM 22:00 JFK 05:00
JFK 09:30 BOM 10:00
This will be like a late evening departure (from home) for most of the crowd instead of a mid night one. Plus allow 36 cities in India to have one stop to some cities of the US. Similar schedule for destinations like ORD etc can also be made . Pax to places like DTW , IAH, DFW , etc can still be funneled through AMS with KL.

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

In hindsight it's such a shame 9W gave up on SFO. The timing dictating pulling back, but AI has found that link particularly profitable.

9W flew BOM PVG SFO . So it was not a non stop flight . They were given badly timed slots at PVG so could not use fifth freedom properly . Thus the flight did not last long.
AI started SFO 8 years after 9W had left and there is a good difference b/w the demand for SFO in 2007 and 2016.

Jet's goal is to be the feeder airline for overseas airlines.
Connecting India to the World is not its priority.

Kashmon wrote:

Jet's goal is to be the feeder airline for overseas airlines.
Connecting India to the World is not its priority.

So great info...........You must be the next CEO of the company . So all foreign airlines please take a note ..you don't have to physically enter India to serve it .you have 9W !! Till today I knew that only Indian media can talk about "priorities" of airlines ..now I see that there are many more who can just predict them.
By the way some questions for you..
Why didn't jet cancel their decade old 789 order?
Why is 9W trying to add new medium haul destinations with the 737 max they'll receive?
Why did jet give up regional business (ATR aircrafts) to focus more on int'l ops if it had to be a mere feeder airline internationally ?
To gain some brand recognition you always start as a feeder . Strong tie ups work once you are well prepared to go long haul. The only airline in India which is still avoiding such tie ups is AI and we all know their condition now.

binayak wrote:

Kashmon wrote:

Jet's goal is to be the feeder airline for overseas airlines.
Connecting India to the World is not its priority.

So great info...........You must be the next CEO of the company . So all foreign airlines please take a note ..you don't have to physically enter India to serve it .you have 9W !! Till today I knew that only Indian media can talk about "priorities" of airlines ..now I see that there are many more who can just predict them.
By the way some questions for you..
Why didn't jet cancel their decade old 789 order?
Why is 9W trying to add new medium haul destinations with the 737 max they'll receive?
Why did jet give up regional business (ATR aircrafts) to focus more on int'l ops if it had to be a mere feeder airline internationally ?
To gain some brand recognition you always start as a feeder . Strong tie ups work once you are well prepared to go long haul. The only airline in India which is still avoiding such tie ups is AI and we all know their condition now.

thanks so much
but considering how old Jet is
the fact that they cannot sustain direct flights to North America is evidence of incompetence...
but then this is the same airline that is actively trying to reduce its market share in the Indian domestic market... ( soon it will be feeding nothing)

Can't wait till Indigo starts flying long haul- an airline who's business model is truly about connecting Indians and not being the "slave" carrier of foreign airlines.

Jet had such a huge head start but failed....

as for being the CEO
Last I checked Indigo despite being way younger has made more money than Jet....

Kashmon wrote:

binayak wrote:

Kashmon wrote:

Jet's goal is to be the feeder airline for overseas airlines.
Connecting India to the World is not its priority.

So great info...........You must be the next CEO of the company . So all foreign airlines please take a note ..you don't have to physically enter India to serve it .you have 9W !! Till today I knew that only Indian media can talk about "priorities" of airlines ..now I see that there are many more who can just predict them.
By the way some questions for you..
Why didn't jet cancel their decade old 789 order?
Why is 9W trying to add new medium haul destinations with the 737 max they'll receive?
Why did jet give up regional business (ATR aircrafts) to focus more on int'l ops if it had to be a mere feeder airline internationally ?
To gain some brand recognition you always start as a feeder . Strong tie ups work once you are well prepared to go long haul. The only airline in India which is still avoiding such tie ups is AI and we all know their condition now.

thanks so much
but considering how old Jet is
the fact that they cannot sustain direct flights to North America is evidence of incompetence...
but then this is the same airline that is actively trying to reduce its market share in the Indian domestic market... ( soon it will be feeding nothing)

Can't wait till Indigo starts flying long haul- an airline who's business model is truly about connecting Indians and not being the "slave" carrier of foreign airlines.

Jet had such a huge head start but failed....

as for being the CEO
Last I checked Indigo despite being way younger has made more money than Jet....

Not to nitpick, but they do sustain direct flights to North America. They fly to YYZ. It's not non-stop granted, but it is a daily direct flight.

As for other destinations, as Air Canada has shown, the right aircraft can make all the difference. They now fly 12x weekly non stop to India from Toronto, and daily from Vancouver, the 789 does the majority of that flying. It has the ability to help 9W extend their reach significantly provided they are smart about utilization, configuration and routing. They have the advantage of one of the fastest growing international markets are their home, they really have no excuse.

anshabhi wrote:

I think Jet airways is not allowed to operate direct flights to US because of copyright issues with another airline named Jet Aiways in US, who registered first.

So how come they flew to destinations like JFK, EWR and SFO for almost 7 - 8 years? The US flights were discontinued at the point when they switched hubs from BRU to AMS and entered into the arrangement with KL/DL.....

lightsaber wrote:

tlecam wrote:

If anything, I’d prefer that Jet expand the number of cities in India that they connect to CDG and AMS.

I believe that they added Chennai to Paris and Bangalore to AMS within the past 6 months to compliment Delhi and Mumbai.

That would be the wisest course for 9W to connect more Indian cities to AMS and CDG.

Trying to do everything almost took under Jet before the GFC. What 9W needs is to use the range of the MAX to Asia and Europe and develop an Asian hub partner.

Lightsaber

Probably, all the 777/A330's are already accounted for flights to LHR/AMS (& CDG). Further expansion will in all likelihood require new aircraft.

Only 737 MAX on orders, which actually is a wise move.

9W should use its extensive code share advantage at AMS to fly to more destinations from AMS to India. They should add HYD and MAA and may be even COK or AMD. I think MAA to AMS would be better than the current MAA to CDG. Also 9W has failed in its US strategy, when AI and AC expanded and increased nonstops on the North America to India market, Jet did not act especially when the oil prices were low. Now I think it is too late.

binayak wrote:

Interesting thread about my favorite airline so thought of posting
EY is currently in a bad situation and so 9W cannot only depend on them.
Let us compare 9W AF KL JV with UA LH JV.
UA-LH JV: The two airlines want primarily the India US traffic to be flowing through FRA hub and thus LH has connected FRA with with 4 destinations in India. However UA also flies EWR-BOM and EWR-DEL.with connections at EWR end. This means the traffic is flowing through both FRA and EWR so a choice is for the traveller to decide where to connect.
Similarly the 9W AF KL JV can make traffic flow through CDG, AMS and maybe BOM (??) in future . I think in the long run 9W will non stop from India to at least 2-3 US cities. Demand has always been increasing and in recent years 9W is trying to woo as many premium pax from BOM as possible. This further provokes them to start routes like BOM-JFK etc else there will be a huge market untapped. They have 10 789s in their order books .
The main drawback of the entire 9W JV is that there is no choice of timing to the traveller . Now there are a lot of premium pax who are not comfortable flying at wee hours at night . What 9W can do is have something like this
BOM 22:00 JFK 05:00
JFK 09:30 BOM 10:00
This will be like a late evening departure (from home) for most of the crowd instead of a mid night one. Plus allow 36 cities in India to have one stop to some cities of the US. Similar schedule for destinations like ORD etc can also be made . Pax to places like DTW , IAH, DFW , etc can still be funneled through AMS with KL.

I agree on timings. That said, would 9:30am allow for DL's first bank to arrive into JFK. For JFK-BOM nonstop to work, I think DL/9W need connections on both sides. So maybe a little latter. If they go any latter from 10am or so, the connection might get too long wrt west coast red eyes. So its either like a 10:30am latest departure or 3pm (to allow the 6am west coast flights to arrive). Anyway don't know how DL's JFK hub works other than there is a bank for 6pm EU flights.

binayak wrote:

Interesting thread about my favorite airline so thought of posting
The main drawback of the entire 9W JV is that there is no choice of timing to the traveller . Now there are a lot of premium pax who are not comfortable flying at wee hours at night . What 9W can do is have something like this
BOM 22:00 JFK 05:00
JFK 09:30 BOM 10:00
This will be like a late evening departure (from home) for most of the crowd instead of a mid night one. Plus allow 36 cities in India to have one stop to some cities of the US. Similar schedule for destinations like ORD etc can also be made . Pax to places like DTW , IAH, DFW , etc can still be funneled through AMS with KL.

I like the above timings. It offers good connections at BOM at decent timings. Now 9W has to bulk up its domestic network. At least at BOM it allowed Indigo and Spicejet to add more services, when it could have done so. At JFK, not sure if there are any destinations to connect (especially on the return from JFK). Perhaps a tie up with JetBlue (unless it has an agreement with DL to not use any other carrier in US).

hohd wrote:

9W should use its extensive code share advantage at AMS to fly to more destinations from AMS to India. They should add HYD and MAA and may be even COK or AMD. I think MAA to AMS would be better than the current MAA to CDG. Also 9W has failed in its US strategy, when AI and AC expanded and increased nonstops on the North America to India market, Jet did not act especially when the oil prices were low. Now I think it is too late.

In all probability, Jet does not have spare aircraft to add flts to AMS (or CDG) from other Indian cities.

Does Jet have money to buy new aircraft?

lightsaber wrote:

tlecam wrote:

If anything, I’d prefer that Jet expand the number of cities in India that they connect to CDG and AMS.

I believe that they added Chennai to Paris and Bangalore to AMS within the past 6 months to compliment Delhi and Mumbai.

That would be the wisest course for 9W to connect more Indian cities to AMS and CDG.

Trying to do everything almost took under Jet before the GFC. What 9W needs is to use the range of the MAX to Asia and Europe and develop an Asian hub partner.

Lightsaber

They have just added connectivity to Haneda with ANA at HKG/BKK and SIN.

The Delta guys seem to know how to run a 'commercial' operation.

CaliguyNYC wrote:

I agree on timings. That said, would 9:30am allow for DL's first bank to arrive into JFK. For JFK-BOM nonstop to work, I think DL/9W need connections on both sides. So maybe a little latter. If they go any latter from 10am or so, the connection might get too long wrt west coast red eyes. So its either like a 10:30am latest departure or 3pm (to allow the 6am west coast flights to arrive). Anyway don't know how DL's JFK hub works other than there is a bank for 6pm EU flights.

DL tried both JFK & ATL non-stops to BOM. Didnt work. Granted, with a smaller aircraft it may be viable. DL also has a slightly better operation out of JFK these days.

However, what about BOM? Does/can 9W create a bank of flights to make it as a 'true' hub?

vadodara wrote:

CaliguyNYC wrote:

I agree on timings. That said, would 9:30am allow for DL's first bank to arrive into JFK. For JFK-BOM nonstop to work, I think DL/9W need connections on both sides. So maybe a little latter. If they go any latter from 10am or so, the connection might get too long wrt west coast red eyes. So its either like a 10:30am latest departure or 3pm (to allow the 6am west coast flights to arrive). Anyway don't know how DL's JFK hub works other than there is a bank for 6pm EU flights.

DL tried both JFK & ATL non-stops to BOM. Didnt work. Granted, with a smaller aircraft it may be viable. DL also has a slightly better operation out of JFK these days.

However, what about BOM? Does/can 9W create a bank of flights to make it as a 'true' hub?

Guess it's time to try 3 weekly out of Detroit being that Mahindra is opening up an assembly plant north of Detroit might be just what is needed to make this flight work.

DL should try now, the economy is about twice as big as 8 years ago when DL last flew to India. It could probably work but start with BOM . This will help Jet add additional feed into BOM . If they can work out an arrangement like DEL has in the international terminal to allow for immigration checks at final destination point, it would be great

Subu

vadodara wrote:

CaliguyNYC wrote:

I agree on timings. That said, would 9:30am allow for DL's first bank to arrive into JFK. For JFK-BOM nonstop to work, I think DL/9W need connections on both sides. So maybe a little latter. If they go any latter from 10am or so, the connection might get too long wrt west coast red eyes. So its either like a 10:30am latest departure or 3pm (to allow the 6am west coast flights to arrive). Anyway don't know how DL's JFK hub works other than there is a bank for 6pm EU flights.

DL tried both JFK & ATL non-stops to BOM. Didnt work. Granted, with a smaller aircraft it may be viable. DL also has a slightly better operation out of JFK these days.

However, what about BOM? Does/can 9W create a bank of flights to make it as a 'true' hub?

Maybe with their A359s it is doable, but I think US-India non-stop is just not workable currently. AI is making it work to EWR/JFK and SFO (I think LAX is coming as well), but I'm interested to see if they actually make money. UA makes it work from EWR, but they have a perfect situation = city with enough front-of-the-plane and relatively wealthy VFR traffic, and tons of UA feed as well.

It's pretty telling UA hasn't tried to start it from SFO or LAX. I just think that route is way too tough to play on with a glut of one-stop options that when taking the ME3 can connect into India ex-BON/DEL into the secondary cities that many are travelling to anyway.

CaliguyNYC wrote:

VS flies the MAN-US flights because of much more UK origin, I think 9W flying the mentioned routes also makes sense because of Indian pax.

Further to this, there is reason to beleive VS and Jet (in conjunction with other partners) are planning to route more India-US traffic via MAN:

https://blueswandaily.com/virgin-atlant ... -partners/


"It is understood that Virgin Atlantic is working on an arrangement with its shareholder Delta Air Lines and Indian carrier Jet Airways to support the strong demand for flights between India and both the UK and the US. Delta already has a partnership with Jet Airways to offer connections between the US and India via Amsterdam Schiphol, but a complementary arrangement is being discussed to potentially also route passengers via Manchester using both Jet Airways and Virgin Atlantic equipment."

subramak1 wrote:

DL should try now, the economy is about twice as big as 8 years ago when DL last flew to India. It could probably work but start with BOM . This will help Jet add additional feed into BOM . If they can work out an arrangement like DEL has in the international terminal to allow for immigration checks at final destination point, it would be great

Subu

I agree DTW-BOM is a win win this is a big hole in the Delta network.

DobboDobbo wrote:

CaliguyNYC wrote:

VS flies the MAN-US flights because of much more UK origin, I think 9W flying the mentioned routes also makes sense because of Indian pax.

Further to this, there is reason to beleive VS and Jet (in conjunction with other partners) are planning to route more India-US traffic via MAN:

https://blueswandaily.com/virgin-atlant ... -partners/


"It is understood that Virgin Atlantic is working on an arrangement with its shareholder Delta Air Lines and Indian carrier Jet Airways to support the strong demand for flights between India and both the UK and the US. Delta already has a partnership with Jet Airways to offer connections between the US and India via Amsterdam Schiphol, but a complementary arrangement is being discussed to potentially also route passengers via Manchester using both Jet Airways and Virgin Atlantic equipment."

With this being said then we should expect VS to start Detroit Manchester flights.

klm617 wrote:

With this being said then we should expect VS to start Detroit Manchester flights.

I think JFK or ATL make more sense for nonstop 9W or DL service to/from India. ATL because of its DL megahub status, with endless connections throughout the DL network in the U.S. and other markets. JFK because of its huge amount of O&D traffic plus some connection potential.

EddieDude wrote:

klm617 wrote:

With this being said then we should expect VS to start Detroit Manchester flights.

I think JFK or ATL make more sense for nonstop 9W or DL service to/from India. ATL because of its DL megahub status, with endless connections throughout the DL network in the U.S. and other markets. JFK because of its huge amount of O&D traffic plus some connection potential.

They already serve JFK and ATL from Manchester so Detroit is the next logical add.

I would say JFK-BOM because you get huge O&D plus premium traffic. Most major cities in India would be one stop to JFK. From ATL I would do DEL because you would offer a ton of cities in the US and thereby get premium traffic (that needs to go to smaller towns in the US).

vadodara wrote:

CaliguyNYC wrote:

I agree on timings. That said, would 9:30am allow for DL's first bank to arrive into JFK. For JFK-BOM nonstop to work, I think DL/9W need connections on both sides. So maybe a little latter. If they go any latter from 10am or so, the connection might get too long wrt west coast red eyes. So its either like a 10:30am latest departure or 3pm (to allow the 6am west coast flights to arrive). Anyway don't know how DL's JFK hub works other than there is a bank for 6pm EU flights.

DL tried both JFK & ATL non-stops to BOM. Didnt work. Granted, with a smaller aircraft it may be viable. DL also has a slightly better operation out of JFK these days.

However, what about BOM? Does/can 9W create a bank of flights to make it as a 'true' hub?

Correction......DL's JFK BOM non stop flight worked well right from day 1. I got this info from a ten year old thread which was about AI's BOM JFK non stop struggling. In 2007-08 DL,AI ran parallel JFK BOM non stops where the former had a PLF of 70% while the latter was struggling at 30%. It was DL's poor decision to shift it to ATL .
For more info please go to that thread titled "AI BOM JFK non stop struggling"

CaliguyNYC wrote:

binayak wrote:

The main drawback of the entire 9W JV is that there is no choice of timing to the traveller . Now there are a lot of premium pax who are not comfortable flying at wee hours at night . What 9W can do is have something like this
BOM 22:00 JFK 05:00
JFK 09:30 BOM 10:00
This will be like a late evening departure (from home) for most of the crowd instead of a mid night one. Plus allow 36 cities in India to have one stop to some cities of the US. Similar schedule for destinations like ORD etc can also be made . Pax to places like DTW , IAH, DFW , etc can still be funneled through AMS with KL.

I agree on timings. That said, would 9:30am allow for DL's first bank to arrive into JFK. For JFK-BOM nonstop to work, I think DL/9W need connections on both sides. So maybe a little latter. If they go any latter from 10am or so, the connection might get too long wrt west coast red eyes. So its either like a 10:30am latest departure or 3pm (to allow the 6am west coast flights to arrive). Anyway don't know how DL's JFK hub works other than there is a bank for 6pm EU flights.

Actually I prioritized BOM side connections more while deciding the timings. Well if in this way 2-3 places in the US (maybe ORD,SFO) is connected by 9W non stop the entire JV will thus:
Allow BOM BLR MAA DEL pax one stop access to 35 destinations in NA.
Allow JFK, ORD,SFO pax one stop access to 36 cities across India.and also a choice of timings to the premium pax from India to these 3 destinations.
Well that will be something the ME3 can not even dream of !!
One more thing can UA FF still use their miles on 9W flights ? I remember AA FF can no more use their miles on 9W.