CRJ Loses Wheel After Takeoff Behind SWA1380

ual763 · Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:29 pm

You may not have seen too much about this in the news, as it was overshadowed by the SWA incident on the same day, but it had the potential to be a whole lot worse than it was. Anyways, a Delta (ExpressJet) CRJ-700 made an emergency landing at Dulles after losing an entire main wheel on takeoff from LGA. The plane is currently inside the signature hangars at Dulles being inspected. You also won’t see it in the news stories, but I was talking to the mechanic ExpressJet sent up here to Dulles, and according to him, the plane took off immediately behind the SWA1380 flight the other day that encountered an uncontaned engine fire. What a coincidence! Anyways, he was saying he’s been doing this for 28 years, and he’s never seen the whole entire wheel just up and come off. Apparently the only thing left was the brakes...

It was pretty funny though, because he was joking about the write-up the pilots put in the mx log at the end of the flight. Apparently, they wrote in the log that the anti-skid inop light came on and needs fixed. Haha well no sh*t, the entire wheel just came off.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr- ... 542f14a23d

GalaxyFlyer · Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:48 pm

How’d they know the wheel came off? The only indication was the ANTISKID-INOP posting on the EICAS.

GF

Spacepope · Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:52 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
How’d they know the wheel came off? The only indication was the ANTISKID-INOP posting on the EICAS.

GF

My guess would be by someone seeing the big wheel bouncing happily down the runway....

sw733 · Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:52 pm

Spacepope wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
How’d they know the wheel came off? The only indication was the ANTISKID-INOP posting on the EICAS.

GF

My guess would be by someone seeing the big wheel bouncing happily down the runway....

This made me laugh out loud, thanks

ual763 · Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:52 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
How’d they know the wheel came off? The only indication was the ANTISKID-INOP posting on the EICAS.

GF

They knew. They were told it came off. They also were holding for hours to get the weight down as low as possible for the emergency landing at Dulles. If it was just an anti-skid issue they would’ve continued on to their intended destination, and probably wouldn’t have declared an emergency. Luckily, the other main tire didn’t pop on landing. But, the nuts were “completely melted” according to the mechanic.

Also, they wrote the entry in the mx log after powering everything down. I’m sure one of the pilots would’ve walked down the stairs to actually look at the missing wheel as soon as they shut down, before filling out the paperwork.

evank516 · Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:58 pm

What is the connection with WN1380 though? Could something have happened with the 737's engine at LGA such as debris flying off to cause the CRJ to lose a wheel?

sw733 · Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:01 pm

evank516 wrote:
What is the connection with WN1380 though? Could something have happened with the 737's engine at LGA such as debris flying off to cause the CRJ to lose a wheel?

Absolutely - debris from one aircraft can cause damage (sometimes significant) on an aircraft departing (or landing) after it. Concorde is an example of this.

ual763 · Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:02 pm

evank516 wrote:
What is the connection with WN1380 though? Could something have happened with the 737's engine at LGA such as debris flying off to cause the CRJ to lose a wheel?

I don’t know. That’s the mystery. One would think that if debris was ran over, that the tire would pop. But, it did not. The whole thing, wheel and all, just came off. But, it does raise concerns that it happened immediately behind the SWA flight.

At what point did the SWA engine fail? It failed in cruise right? I almost wonder if there was FOD on the runway that the SWA ingested, that potentially weakened the fan-blade and then when reaching cruise, it simply gave way. Maybe this same patch of hypothetical FOD, then caused this. Really strange all-around, but the coincidence is too strong to ignore in my opinion.

evank516 · Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:05 pm

ual763 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
What is the connection with WN1380 though? Could something have happened with the 737's engine at LGA such as debris flying off to cause the CRJ to lose a wheel?

I don’t know. That’s the mystery. One would think that if debris was ran over, that the tire would pop. But, it did not. The whole thing, wheel and all, just came off. But, it does raise concerns that it happened immediately behind the SWA flight.

So then the question is whether or not any debris was reported on the runway at LGA, obviously not otherwise they would have shut down the runway.

GalaxyFlyer · Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:12 pm

Spacepope wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
How’d they know the wheel came off? The only indication was the ANTISKID-INOP posting on the EICAS.

GF

My guess would be by someone seeing the big wheel bouncing happily down the runway....

Well, having nose wheel and a main come off the C-5; no one knew until we blocked in. In fact, most crews never knew, either, so it’s possible.

GF

metaldirtnskin · Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:13 pm

Spacepope wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
How’d they know the wheel came off? The only indication was the ANTISKID-INOP posting on the EICAS.

GF

My guess would be by someone seeing the big wheel bouncing happily down the runway....

Please tell me someone made a "you picked a fine time to leave me, loose wheel" joke a la NASCAR.

estorilm · Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:22 pm

ual763 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
How’d they know the wheel came off? The only indication was the ANTISKID-INOP posting on the EICAS.

GF

They knew. They were told it came off. They also were holding for hours to get the weight down as low as possible for the emergency landing at Dulles. If it was just an anti-skid issue they would’ve continued on to their intended destination, and probably wouldn’t have declared an emergency. Luckily, the other main tire didn’t pop on landing. But, the nuts were “completely melted” according to the mechanic.

Also, they wrote the entry in the mx log after powering everything down. I’m sure one of the pilots would’ve walked down the stairs to actually look at the missing wheel as soon as they shut down, before filling out the paperwork.

Which nuts had melted? Securing the missing wheel? Aren't there safety cables on all the wheel nuts, etc?

Luckily he had quite a long runway to coax it down gently at IAD.

I was hoping someone would post a thread about this.

JAAlbert · Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:26 pm

Did a mechanic forget to properly attach the wheel after maintenance of some sort?

hOMSaR · Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:42 pm

It's a good thing they decided to divert to IAD and not PHL.

ual763 · Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:45 pm

estorilm wrote:
Which nuts had melted? Securing the missing wheel?

I’m honestly not sure.

m007j · Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:52 pm

Spacepope wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
How’d they know the wheel came off? The only indication was the ANTISKID-INOP posting on the EICAS.

GF

My guess would be by someone seeing the big wheel bouncing happily down the runway....

Boeing... Boeing... Boeing....

I'll see myself out.

bradyj23 · Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:10 pm

m007j wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
How’d they know the wheel came off? The only indication was the ANTISKID-INOP posting on the EICAS.

GF

My guess would be by someone seeing the big wheel bouncing happily down the runway....

Boeing... Boeing... Boeing....

I'll see myself out.

LOL. Well played.

As for it being behind WN I think it is just coincidence. Have we even proved this is true and not just hearsay from a mechanic? The WN flight had a failure at altitude. If it had dropped something on the runway the engine would've had an issue much sooner. As for the nuts being melted/sheared off...if true... then wow. That takes a lot of force. No safety wire will prevent that. Sounds like something mechanical and not hitting something on the runway. In the end I think the 2 incidents were just a coincidence.

PSU.DTW.SCE · Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:13 pm

I remember hearing about I think a NW DC-9 about 20 years ago losing a tire on takeoff from MDW and it going through the perimeter fence and hitting a car.

SumChristianus · Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:14 pm

Are they investigating this connection. Something that caused both would make sense....
big story.....

estorilm · Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:32 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
Are they investigating this connection. Something that caused both would make sense....
big story.....

They are forced to investigate this anyways, so I'm sure if there's a connection they'll make it in the process.

As others have said - I can't imagine any FOD causing a wheel to separate from the aircraft. In fact I'm essentially positive the events are unrelated due to the fact that the TIRE itself was still inflated. That sounds 100% like maintenance to me.

N14AZ · Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:39 pm

ual763 wrote:
The plane is currently inside the signature hangars at Dulles being inspected.

May I ask, what is a signature hangar? I am currently in Asia and it seems using the word „signature“ is kind of a fashion... signature dinner... signature massage... signature everywhere ... So what is a signature hangar?

metaldirtnskin · Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:41 pm

N14AZ wrote:
ual763 wrote:
The plane is currently inside the signature hangars at Dulles being inspected.

May I ask, what is a signature hangar? I am currently in Asia and it seems using the word „signature“ is kind of a fashion... signature dinner... signature massage... signature everywhere ... So what is a signature hangar?

Most likely Signature Flight Support (an FBO).

HeeseokKoo · Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:48 pm

There were a handful of flights that took off between those two. They were fortunate to avoid the debris. Or should all these aircrafts need an inspection.

Tookoff time (assuming all used the same runway; there could be more flights than these)
WN1380 73W 1043 (diverted)
DL5313 CR9 1043
AA3969 ERD 1044
DL6118 E75 1046
AC707 319 1048
DL5315 CR2 1049
UA6260 CR7 1052
DL5668 CR7 1054
DL5967 E75 1055
AA2733 32B 1057
DL3992 CR9 1058
DL5507 CR7 1059 (diverted)

Spacepope · Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:09 pm

HeeseokKoo wrote:
There were a handful of flights that took off between those two. They were fortunate to avoid the debris. Or should all these aircrafts need an inspection.

Tookoff time (assuming all used the same runway; there could be more flights than these)
WN1380 73W 1043 (diverted)
DL5313 CR9 1043
AA3969 ERD 1044
DL6118 E75 1046
AC707 319 1048
DL5315 CR2 1049
UA6260 CR7 1052
DL5668 CR7 1054
DL5967 E75 1055
AA2733 32B 1057
DL3992 CR9 1058
DL5507 CR7 1059 (diverted)

What debris from the WN flight? It lost its parts over Pennsylvania. ..

ual763 · Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:17 pm

HeeseokKoo wrote:
There were a handful of flights that took off between those two. They were fortunate to avoid the debris. Or should all these aircrafts need an inspection.

Tookoff time (assuming all used the same runway; there could be more flights than these)
WN1380 73W 1043 (diverted)
DL5313 CR9 1043
AA3969 ERD 1044
DL6118 E75 1046
AC707 319 1048
DL5315 CR2 1049
UA6260 CR7 1052
DL5668 CR7 1054
DL5967 E75 1055
AA2733 32B 1057
DL3992 CR9 1058
DL5507 CR7 1059 (diverted)

So this seems to confirm that it was hearsay from the mechanic. However, since they still departed within about 15minutes of each other off of the same runway, I'm sure they will investigate to see if they are linked in some way. But, I agree, it sounds likely that it was a maintenance issue on the CR7.

ual763 · Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:19 pm

N14AZ wrote:
ual763 wrote:
The plane is currently inside the signature hangars at Dulles being inspected.

May I ask, what is a signature hangar? I am currently in Asia and it seems using the word „signature“ is kind of a fashion... signature dinner... signature massage... signature everywhere ... So what is a signature hangar?

The hangars at Signature Flight Support. Basically, the GA ramp at Dulles. They have really large hangars. They literally have the aircraft set atop a bunch of cardboard so as not to scuff their immaculately clean floor.

richierich · Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:41 pm

metaldirtnskin wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
How’d they know the wheel came off? The only indication was the ANTISKID-INOP posting on the EICAS.

GF

My guess would be by someone seeing the big wheel bouncing happily down the runway....

Please tell me someone made a "you picked a fine time to leave me, loose wheel" joke a la NASCAR.

I love a good Kenny Rogers joke...never seen one on airliners.net before!
Very odd but this was almost certainly just a coincidence.

BruceSmith · Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:44 pm

FlightAware has WN1380 taking off at 10:43AM and DL5507 at 10:59AM. I'm guessing that LGA is busy enough that there were several planes departing between these two, what's the likelihood of a FOD connection with several aircraft between the two flights? Links courtesy AVHerald.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA ... /KLGA/KDAL
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KLGA/KRIC

ual763 · Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:54 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
ual763 wrote:
They also were holding for hours to get the weight down as low as possible for the emergency landing at Dulles.

Holding for hours? Like three or four hours? That seems pretty long for a CR7.

That’s just what he mechanic said. I haven’t looked at the actual flightaware page for the flight yet though.

MartijnNL · Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:54 pm

ual763 wrote:
They also were holding for hours to get the weight down as low as possible for the emergency landing at Dulles.

Holding for hours? Like three or four hours? That seems pretty long for a CR7.

ual763 · Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:56 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
ual763 wrote:
They also were holding for hours to get the weight down as low as possible for the emergency landing at Dulles.

Holding for hours? Like three or four hours? That seems pretty long for a CR7.

So after looking at the flightaware page, they made a few 360s after takeoff and then vectored quite a ways to the south instead of holding. Looks like it added an extra 45minutes to an hour to the normal flight time.

litz · Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:05 pm

It'll be interesting to find out if this was a sheared axle, or improperly torqued nuts ...

Both have happened before, but it's not exactly a common thing.

SumChristianus · Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:28 pm

Could both planes have been handled by the same maintenance/ground servicing/something? Just seems to much of a coincidence for there not to be a connection. I'd assume they checked the runway....
Drones.....hmmmm...perhaps?

HeeseokKoo · Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:42 pm

Spacepope wrote:
What debris from the WN flight? It lost its parts over Pennsylvania. ..

I spoke hypothetically since this thread is about a possibility that two incidents are related.

estorilm · Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:51 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
Could both planes have been handled by the same maintenance/ground servicing/something? Just seems to much of a coincidence for there not to be a connection. I'd assume they checked the runway....
Drones.....hmmmm...perhaps?

Neither were based out of the departure airport, not the same engines/parts, staff, companies, maintenance contractors, aircraft age, etc etc - the ONLY thing they had in common was the piece of pavement they touched that day.

Again, only way one aircraft could impact the other on T/O roll would be FOD. As established, other planes departed after SW, and the tire itself didn't blow.

Drone = IF it was capable of destroying a CFM56 at T/O power, it would have happened at low altitude. They were at ~30,000ft. Drone taking a wheel off of a 70,000lb CRJ-700?

It's weird, but I think that's about it.

hivue · Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:57 pm

ual763 wrote:
that encountered an uncontaned engine fire.

A what?

ual763 wrote:
I don’t know. That’s the mystery.

Everything we don't know is a mystery.

jumbojet · Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:15 pm

ual763 wrote:
MartijnNL wrote:
ual763 wrote:
They also were holding for hours to get the weight down as low as possible for the emergency landing at Dulles.

Holding for hours? Like three or four hours? That seems pretty long for a CR7.

So after looking at the flightaware page, they made a few 360s after takeoff and then vectored quite a ways to the south instead of holding. Looks like it added an extra 45minutes to an hour to the normal flight time.

That's quite a difference. From 3 to 4 hours down to 45 minutes. Why would the OP not check with flightaware first before posting an obviously erroneous holding time? I can only surmise that if this had been a UAE flight, the correct holding time would have been investigated and posted.

ual763 · Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:42 pm

hivue wrote:
ual763 wrote:
that encountered an uncontaned engine fire.

A what?
[quote/]

Sorry, meant "failure"

WesternDC6B · Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:46 pm

m007j wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
How’d they know the wheel came off? The only indication was the ANTISKID-INOP posting on the EICAS.

GF

My guess would be by someone seeing the big wheel bouncing happily down the runway....

Boeing... Boeing... Boeing....

I'll see myself out.

Boeing, Boeing, Gone!

ual763 · Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:47 pm

jumbojet wrote:
ual763 wrote:
MartijnNL wrote:
Holding for hours? Like three or four hours? That seems pretty long for a CR7.

So after looking at the flightaware page, they made a few 360s after takeoff and then vectored quite a ways to the south instead of holding. Looks like it added an extra 45minutes to an hour to the normal flight time.

That's quite a difference. From 3 to 4 hours down to 45 minutes. Why would the OP not check with flightaware first before posting an obviously erroneous holding time? I can only surmise that if this had been a UAE flight, the correct holding time would have been investigated and posted.

Sorry dude, I got my numbers from the what the ExpressJet mechanic said on the airport hotel shuttle at Dulles. What difference does it make to you? I literally corrected myself a few minutes later after looking it up on flightaware. The fact that you think I'm somehow denigrating Delta, is obnoxious.

jumbojet · Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:22 pm

ual763 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
ual763 wrote:

So after looking at the flightaware page, they made a few 360s after takeoff and then vectored quite a ways to the south instead of holding. Looks like it added an extra 45minutes to an hour to the normal flight time.

That's quite a difference. From 3 to 4 hours down to 45 minutes. Why would the OP not check with flightaware first before posting an obviously erroneous holding time? I can only surmise that if this had been a UAE flight, the correct holding time would have been investigated and posted.

Sorry dude, I got my numbers from the what the ExpressJet mechanic said on the airport hotel shuttle at Dulles. What difference does it make to you? I literally corrected myself a few minutes later after looking it up on flightaware. The fact that you think I'm somehow denigrating Delta, is obnoxious.

I find it hard to believe that some as knowledgable as you in this industry would even think for a moment that a CRJ circling for 4 hours would be correct and you only thought to correct yourself after some other poster raised the prospect of that amount of time aloft for a CRJ was wrong.

CATIIIevery5yrs · Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:50 pm

This whole thread needs to be locked before some news reporter actually thinks one event had to do with the other.

ual763 · Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:05 pm

jumbojet wrote:
ual763 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

That's quite a difference. From 3 to 4 hours down to 45 minutes. Why would the OP not check with flightaware first before posting an obviously erroneous holding time? I can only surmise that if this had been a UAE flight, the correct holding time would have been investigated and posted.

Sorry dude, I got my numbers from the what the ExpressJet mechanic said on the airport hotel shuttle at Dulles. What difference does it make to you? I literally corrected myself a few minutes later after looking it up on flightaware. The fact that you think I'm somehow denigrating Delta, is obnoxious.

I find it hard to believe that some as knowledgable as you in this industry would even think for a moment that a CRJ circling for 4 hours would be correct and you only thought to correct yourself after some other poster raised the prospect of that amount of time aloft for a CRJ was wrong.

Go back and look. I wasn’t even the one that said “3-4 hours”. Literally, all I said was they were holding “for hours”, not “four hours”.

twinotter · Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:27 pm

It's possible there was an evil spirit lingering around the runways at KLGA that morning that both planes encountered.

hivue · Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:32 pm

ual763 wrote:
[Sorry, meant "failure"

And I don't believe the WN engine failure has been classified as "uncontained."

rbavfan · Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:35 pm

ual763 wrote:
You may not have seen too much about this in the news, as it was overshadowed by the SWA incident on the same day, but it had the potential to be a whole lot worse than it was. Anyways, a Delta (ExpressJet) CRJ-700 made an emergency landing at Dulles after losing an entire main wheel on takeoff from LGA. The plane is currently inside the signature hangars at Dulles being inspected. You also won’t see it in the news stories, but I was talking to the mechanic ExpressJet sent up here to Dulles, and according to him, the plane took off immediately behind the SWA1380 flight the other day that encountered an uncontaned engine fire. What a coincidence! Anyways, he was saying he’s been doing this for 28 years, and he’s never seen the whole entire wheel just up and come off. Apparently the only thing left was the brakes...

It was pretty funny though, because he was joking about the write-up the pilots put in the mx log at the end of the flight. Apparently, they wrote in the log that the anti-skid inop light came on and needs fixed. Haha well no sh*t, the entire wheel just came off.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr- ... 542f14a23d

There have been many wheels come off planes over the years. Some they found & some landed in the water and probably sank.

LupineChemist · Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:41 pm

twinotter wrote:
It's possible there was an evil spirit lingering around the runways at KLGA that morning that both planes encountered.

Hopefully Department of Energy can lend some proton packs to the NTSB. This could be serious.

DiamondFlyer · Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:20 pm

Not real surprising coming from ASA (or what's left of it), considering that they're a dead airline walking by December.

Max Q · Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:57 pm

Not a big deal unless you lose both wheels you still have one left

Unnecessary hysteria

klm617 · Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:21 am

Could it be that some sort of runway condition could have caused damage to both aircraft ?

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