thgsr08
Posts: 174
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:02 pm

Re: Aeromexico resumes Barcelona service

Thu May 17, 2018 3:12 am

Well, it's gone....

AeroMexico in this week’s schedule update closed reservation for its planned service resumption on Mexico City – Barcelona route, nearly 3 weeks after the airline opened for reservation.

The Skyeam member originally planned to operate this route 3 times a week with Boeing 787-8, from 01NOV18. Operational schedule is also removed from the system.

Previously filed schedule as follows.

AM033 MEX1730 – 1130+1BCN 788 246
AM034 BCN1330 – 1915MEX 788 357
:checkeredflag:
 
behramjee
Posts: 4587
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

Re: Aeromexico resumes Barcelona service

Thu May 17, 2018 5:10 am

Wasn't EKs request denied for BCN mex 5th freedom? https://airlinegeeks.com/2018/05/11/mex ... lona-stop/

So AM published and then cancelled so fast ?
 
jmmadrid
Posts: 238
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:00 pm

Re: Aeromexico resumes Barcelona service

Thu May 17, 2018 7:42 am

So AM is a dog in the manger? I hope this clears the way for EK to fly this route.
It's frustrating there's so little official information available about what is going on.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 1344
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Aeromexico resumes Barcelona service

Thu May 17, 2018 12:05 pm

jmmadrid wrote:
So AM is a dog in the manger? I hope this clears the way for EK to fly this route.
It's frustrating there's so little official information available about what is going on.

Methinks AM is the one of the two that got better off here. As IB, AR and SQ have learnt (and lot of other airlines have come to the same conclusion over the years without ever starting the route), it is difficult to make money on routes from BCN to Latin America. Yields are not near what they are to MAD or other European hubs.
As for MEX-DXB (or vice versa) demand, what could that be? No VFR, minimal business ties, no historical or cultural ties, and limited tourism opportunities (what one place offers, the other has a lot closer to home, be that beaches, historical sites, etc.). Demand MEX- beyond DXB? No huge Indian and Pakistani diaspora in Mexico, as in the US; Mexico has several direct and nonstop connections to East Asia (unlike Argentina and Brazil (sauf GRU-PEK), where EK is successful).
So what will the traffic flows be?
MEX-Africa? Quicker, and one stop less, through MAD, CDG, FRA, LHR.
MEX-India and South East Asia? Is there that much traffic, and at what yields? You get too far east from DXB and it's starting to be a big detour compared to going through China/Korea/Japan.
MEX-Middle East? What's the demand? Same remarks as for DXB are also valid for most markets here, too.

Although MEX is one of the world's biggest cities, and DXB is one of the biggest international hubs, I think they may just be too far apart in many ways for it to be viable to connect them in a profitable way. The BCN stop will fill seats, but hardly improve the yield.
 
dodgers702
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:40 pm

Re: Aeromexico resumes Barcelona service

Thu May 17, 2018 5:36 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:
So AM is a dog in the manger? I hope this clears the way for EK to fly this route.
It's frustrating there's so little official information available about what is going on.

Methinks AM is the one of the two that got better off here. As IB, AR and SQ have learnt (and lot of other airlines have come to the same conclusion over the years without ever starting the route), it is difficult to make money on routes from BCN to Latin America. Yields are not near what they are to MAD or other European hubs.
As for MEX-DXB (or vice versa) demand, what could that be? No VFR, minimal business ties, no historical or cultural ties, and limited tourism opportunities (what one place offers, the other has a lot closer to home, be that beaches, historical sites, etc.). Demand MEX- beyond DXB? No huge Indian and Pakistani diaspora in Mexico, as in the US; Mexico has several direct and nonstop connections to East Asia (unlike Argentina and Brazil (sauf GRU-PEK), where EK is successful).
So what will the traffic flows be?
MEX-Africa? Quicker, and one stop less, through MAD, CDG, FRA, LHR.
MEX-India and South East Asia? Is there that much traffic, and at what yields? You get too far east from DXB and it's starting to be a big detour compared to going through China/Korea/Japan.
MEX-Middle East? What's the demand? Same remarks as for DXB are also valid for most markets here, too.

Although MEX is one of the world's biggest cities, and DXB is one of the biggest international hubs, I think they may just be too far apart in many ways for it to be viable to connect them in a profitable way. The BCN stop will fill seats, but hardly improve the yield.


Good points there so I guess it remains to be seen if EK can make this work. One airline that has the patience and can wait and even afford to lose money is EK so im sure they have done their homework. Stay tuned i guess....


I remember reading that EK had plans to start service come November. Wonder if thats still in the books.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 1344
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Aeromexico resumes Barcelona service

Thu May 17, 2018 6:14 pm

dodgers702 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:
So AM is a dog in the manger? I hope this clears the way for EK to fly this route.
It's frustrating there's so little official information available about what is going on.

Methinks AM is the one of the two that got better off here. As IB, AR and SQ have learnt (and lot of other airlines have come to the same conclusion over the years without ever starting the route), it is difficult to make money on routes from BCN to Latin America. Yields are not near what they are to MAD or other European hubs.
As for MEX-DXB (or vice versa) demand, what could that be? No VFR, minimal business ties, no historical or cultural ties, and limited tourism opportunities (what one place offers, the other has a lot closer to home, be that beaches, historical sites, etc.). Demand MEX- beyond DXB? No huge Indian and Pakistani diaspora in Mexico, as in the US; Mexico has several direct and nonstop connections to East Asia (unlike Argentina and Brazil (sauf GRU-PEK), where EK is successful).
So what will the traffic flows be?
MEX-Africa? Quicker, and one stop less, through MAD, CDG, FRA, LHR.
MEX-India and South East Asia? Is there that much traffic, and at what yields? You get too far east from DXB and it's starting to be a big detour compared to going through China/Korea/Japan.
MEX-Middle East? What's the demand? Same remarks as for DXB are also valid for most markets here, too.

Although MEX is one of the world's biggest cities, and DXB is one of the biggest international hubs, I think they may just be too far apart in many ways for it to be viable to connect them in a profitable way. The BCN stop will fill seats, but hardly improve the yield.


Good points there so I guess it remains to be seen if EK can make this work. One airline that has the patience and can wait and even afford to lose money is EK so im sure they have done their homework. Stay tuned i guess....


I remember reading that EK had plans to start service come November. Wonder if thats still in the books.

When it comes to EK doing their homework in the region, they walked away with an F when it came to PTY. Some of the flights (when they were finally bookable after announcing PTY like 3 times) had exactly 0 (zero) bookings just a few months out. Let's hope MEX does a lot better for them, but I for one am not holding my breath.
 
dodgers702
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:40 pm

Re: Aeromexico resumes Barcelona service

Thu May 17, 2018 6:46 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
dodgers702 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Methinks AM is the one of the two that got better off here. As IB, AR and SQ have learnt (and lot of other airlines have come to the same conclusion over the years without ever starting the route), it is difficult to make money on routes from BCN to Latin America. Yields are not near what they are to MAD or other European hubs.
As for MEX-DXB (or vice versa) demand, what could that be? No VFR, minimal business ties, no historical or cultural ties, and limited tourism opportunities (what one place offers, the other has a lot closer to home, be that beaches, historical sites, etc.). Demand MEX- beyond DXB? No huge Indian and Pakistani diaspora in Mexico, as in the US; Mexico has several direct and nonstop connections to East Asia (unlike Argentina and Brazil (sauf GRU-PEK), where EK is successful).
So what will the traffic flows be?
MEX-Africa? Quicker, and one stop less, through MAD, CDG, FRA, LHR.
MEX-India and South East Asia? Is there that much traffic, and at what yields? You get too far east from DXB and it's starting to be a big detour compared to going through China/Korea/Japan.
MEX-Middle East? What's the demand? Same remarks as for DXB are also valid for most markets here, too.

Although MEX is one of the world's biggest cities, and DXB is one of the biggest international hubs, I think they may just be too far apart in many ways for it to be viable to connect them in a profitable way. The BCN stop will fill seats, but hardly improve the yield.


Good points there so I guess it remains to be seen if EK can make this work. One airline that has the patience and can wait and even afford to lose money is EK so im sure they have done their homework. Stay tuned i guess....


I remember reading that EK had plans to start service come November. Wonder if thats still in the books.

When it comes to EK doing their homework in the region, they walked away with an F when it came to PTY. Some of the flights (when they were finally bookable after announcing PTY like 3 times) had exactly 0 (zero) bookings just a few months out. Let's hope MEX does a lot better for them, but I for one am not holding my breath.


Yeah i heard that was the reason even though it was said they cancelled also because not getting all codeshare approvals that they had requested (or something related to that). I think they still have to get appropriate slots at MEX which that will be a challenge itself. Obviously they have the money to buy premium slots so it remains to be seen if it does happen their arrival/departing hours are good to have great connection flights.
 
jmmadrid
Posts: 238
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:00 pm

Re: Aeromexico resumes Barcelona service

Thu May 17, 2018 8:42 pm

The timings for this flight are going to be interesting. BCN already has 2 daily flights that connect to the small hours bank and the 8am bank in Dubai.
My understanding is that the former is the most important one, so if EK want MEX to connect to this one, the flight should leave MEX around 19:00 and land in BCN around 13:30. Leave MEX much earlier and its passengers will have to endure a longer stop in BCN. Leave MEX much later and they will miss the 15:30 departure to DXB.
Another possibility is to connect to the 22:30 departure from BCN, and to achieve this, they would have to leave MEX around 02:00am. Not even sure if it's possible.
The remaining option is to leave MEX around 14:30, land in BCN around 09:00am and the new flight BCN-DXB would leave around 11:00 and connect to the 21:00 bank in Dubai (not the best one).
To sum up, 3 possibilities: Leave MEX at 02:00, 14:30 or 19:30.
Any thoughts?
 
dcajet
Posts: 2290
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Aeromexico resumes Barcelona service

Thu May 17, 2018 10:50 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
When it comes to EK doing their homework in the region, they walked away with an F when it came to PTY. Some of the flights (when they were finally bookable after announcing PTY like 3 times) had exactly 0 (zero) bookings just a few months out. Let's hope MEX does a lot better for them, but I for one am not holding my breath.


Well, Mexico City is not Panama City. MEX is one of 3 world alpha cities in Latin America (Bs As and SP are the other two) so EK should have no problem getting feed there for BCN, DXB and beyond. As you well say, perhaps NE Asia/China are better served from MEX directly or via the US but Emirates will stimulate traffic to places like India, HK, Thailand, etc., just as they did at EZE & GRU. EK is filling every day to capacity a 77W at EZE.

I am confident EK will succeed in MEX just as they do pretty much elsewhere they fly to.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
dodgers702
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:40 pm

Re: Aeromexico resumes Barcelona service

Thu May 17, 2018 11:58 pm

dcajet wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
When it comes to EK doing their homework in the region, they walked away with an F when it came to PTY. Some of the flights (when they were finally bookable after announcing PTY like 3 times) had exactly 0 (zero) bookings just a few months out. Let's hope MEX does a lot better for them, but I for one am not holding my breath.


Well, Mexico City is not Panama City. MEX is one of 3 world alpha cities in Latin America (Bs As and SP are the other two) so EK should have no problem getting feed there for BCN, DXB and beyond. As you well say, perhaps NE Asia/China are better served from MEX directly or via the US but Emirates will stimulate traffic to places like India, HK, Thailand, etc., just as they did at EZE & GRU. EK is filling every day to capacity a 77W at EZE.

I am confident EK will succeed in MEX just as they do pretty much elsewhere they fly to.


Agree that you cannot compare MEX to PTY. Emirates has been wanting to send its metal to MEX for years. This is the closest they have been to make it happen. I think what remains is getting slots approved at a slot constraint airport. Maybe they can buys premium slots from one of the LCC just like NH did to obtain their desired slots.
 
jr1000
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:11 am

Re: Aeromexico resumes Barcelona service

Fri May 18, 2018 5:03 pm

http://www.dineroenimagen.com/carlos-ve ... erea/99229

Sorry is in Spanish, from a prominent Tourist writer in a newspaper, MEX government granted 5th freedom to EMIRATES.......Hello Mexico
 
jmmadrid
Posts: 238
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:00 pm

Re: Aeromexico resumes Barcelona service

Fri May 18, 2018 5:42 pm

jr1000 wrote:
http://www.dineroenimagen.com/carlos-velazquez/emirates-precedente-preocupante-para-la-industria-aerea/99229

Sorry is in Spanish, from a prominent Tourist writer in a newspaper, MEX government granted 5th freedom to EMIRATES.......Hello Mexico


Goodness me! That wonderful and prominent journalist claims that EK bought AIR BERLIN and part of ALITALIA...
 
dodgers702
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:40 pm

Re: Aeromexico resumes Barcelona service

Fri May 18, 2018 6:12 pm

jmmadrid wrote:
jr1000 wrote:
http://www.dineroenimagen.com/carlos-velazquez/emirates-precedente-preocupante-para-la-industria-aerea/99229

Sorry is in Spanish, from a prominent Tourist writer in a newspaper, MEX government granted 5th freedom to EMIRATES.......Hello Mexico


Goodness me! That wonderful and prominent journalist claims that EK bought AIR BERLIN and part of ALITALIA...


Hilarious! Should do his homework first. On a side note Interesting to read that at one time Korean Air was requesting fifth freedom rights on a proposed ICN-YVR-MEX route but was denied. Maybe with the SCT being maybe more liberal in a sense, KE may request it once again.

Back to topic, hopefully it one take long for EK to get appropriate slots at MEX so they can commence the route before year ends.
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6788
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

Re: Aeromexico resumes Barcelona service

Fri May 18, 2018 8:11 pm

So, I found the text of the UAE-Mexico bilateral. Fifth freedom rights have to be applied for and approved by the relevant authorities of both countries (plus obviously the third party country where the stopover airport is located).

So yes, it seems the AM decision to withdraw this route is based on the fact that EK obtained traffic rights for BCN-MEX from the Mexican authorities (and the Spanish ones). AM has been quoted by local media saying that the EK competition is unfair due to Emiraiti subsidies.

October 10, 2012 is when the treaty was signed. June 3, 2015 is the date of the enactment of the bilateral in Mexico (publication in the Official Gazette of the Federation). It became effective June 4, 2015. The treaty can be found at: http://dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codi ... 03/06/2015
Upcoming AM MEX-LAX 73H, VA LAX-MEL 77W.
 
AM744
Posts: 1456
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:05 pm

Re: Aeromexico resumes Barcelona service

Fri May 18, 2018 8:26 pm

As Eddie said, AM is denouncing "unfair competition" due to Emirates receiving "subsidies"

Sorry, only in Spanish

https://expansion.mx/empresas/2018/05/1 ... equitativa
 
laxtrii
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:56 am

Re: Aeromexico resumes Barcelona service

Fri May 18, 2018 8:51 pm

 
User avatar
ghost77
Posts: 4503
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

Re: Aeromexico resumes Barcelona service

Sun May 20, 2018 12:42 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
When it comes to EK doing their homework in the region, they walked away with an F when it came to PTY. Some of the flights (when they were finally bookable after announcing PTY like 3 times) had exactly 0 (zero) bookings just a few months out. Let's hope MEX does a lot better for them, but I for one am not holding my breath.


That's going to be fun! Although, more chances of getting people to BCN. This reminds me of:




Good chances of getting people trying to get cheap to Europe. I think all could loose some pax, BA, KL, AF, LH, AZ, AM and IMHO the most affected will be IB. Ironically, they didn't make a move in order to stop EK into BCN.


jmmadrid wrote:
The timings for this flight are going to be interesting. BCN already has 2 daily flights that connect to the small hours bank and the 8am bank in Dubai.
My understanding is that the former is the most important one, so if EK want MEX to connect to this one, the flight should leave MEX around 19:00 and land in BCN around 13:30. Leave MEX much earlier and its passengers will have to endure a longer stop in BCN. Leave MEX much later and they will miss the 15:30 departure to DXB.
Another possibility is to connect to the 22:30 departure from BCN, and to achieve this, they would have to leave MEX around 02:00am. Not even sure if it's possible.
The remaining option is to leave MEX around 14:30, land in BCN around 09:00am and the new flight BCN-DXB would leave around 11:00 and connect to the 21:00 bank in Dubai (not the best one).
To sum up, 3 possibilities: Leave MEX at 02:00, 14:30 or 19:30.
Any thoughts?


You have a point. And much more convenient to all passengers in Mexico would be to leave MEX at 19:30. How will they get the slot?????

So WHEN will EK start flying?

Ohhhhhhh and from where will EK get pilots to fly the route? They are expanding when the US has a shortage and they have a shortage and people there is trying to get back to the US ASAP?

g77
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 1979
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Aeromexico resumes Barcelona service

Sun May 20, 2018 4:01 am

MEX-BCN-DXB sounds like the upcoming AKL-DPS-DXB or the awful 02:30 BNE-SIN-DXB. These are basically 777 freight runs with pax gravy outside peak season. The yield on MEX-BCN & AKL-DPS will be terrible and good luck if LEVEL launches the route.

I think AM did the smart thing by not reinstating BCN- use the 787's on proven more lucrative routes.

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