xjetflyer2001
Topic Author
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:20 pm

What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:24 pm

I know it's only January but United Airlines Mainline flights gained 1.9% while Southwest gained 10.4%, United with United Express included gained 4.9% in Passenger numbers.
If you count Mainline flights only then Southwest already has more customers in January than United had 1,436,392 vs 1,384,664 but with United Express United totaled 1,972,006 pax

What would happen if/when at this rate Southwest overtakes United as the busiest carrier at Denver Airport? Anything?
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5244
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:25 pm

Nothing unless WN decides to fly to places like GTF, GJT, ISN, DIK, and all the other airports that makes DEN's domestic flying high margin.
Next flight: IAH-IST-TXL-IST-IAH on TK in J
 
blockski
Posts: 242
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Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:39 pm

Why would you only count mainline flying?
 
xjetflyer2001
Topic Author
Posts: 161
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Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:51 pm

blockski wrote:
Why would you only count mainline flying?


I didn't only count Mainline flying, I put Mainline only numbers plus Mainline and Express numbers, Southwest only has mainline.
 
jplatts
Posts: 1492
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Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:54 pm

UA's codeshare and Star Alliance partners AC, CM, and LH all have nonstop flights to DEN, and AC, CM, and LH can connect passengers onto UA flights to other UA destinations in the U.S. at DEN. UA can also connect passengers onto AC, CM, and LH flights at DEN.

The market will still be there for a UA hub operation at DEN, even if WN overtakes UA at DEN, since UA has nonstop service to domestic destinations not served by WN from its DEN hub and since UA can connect passengers to international destinations that WN does not serve at DEN.
Last edited by jplatts on Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
SumChristianus
Posts: 492
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Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:00 pm

WN has already overtaken UA on many routes IND/STL/BNA/BWI/MKE/MCI/ABQ?/PHX/etc., and overall, in terms of capacity and local traffic. UA serves more destinations and more international destinations, and is trying to make a comeback, recently declaring that DEN along with ORD and IAH, would be its three focuses for growth. While I'd like to see UA pull ahead and turn DEN into its version of ATL, with 50% capacity growth already rumored/stated by Scott Kirby, I think WN will continue to grow as well, making it hard for them. DEN is profitable for UA (the most profitable hub at UA according to Scott)
Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1391543&p=20327999&hilit=united+airlines#p20327999

FSDan wrote:
UA finalized their June schedules about two weeks ago (I've been watching closely over the past month or two), and there are lots of cool upgauges throughout the system. I think the following mainline additions are noteworthy (some may have been this way for a little while or are seasonal resumptions, but they stuck out in my mind as routes that have very recently been all or mostly RJs):

DEN-YYZ (1x mainline)
DEN-EUG (1x mainline)
DEN-MFR (1x mainline)
DEN-FCA (2x mainline)
DEN-MSO (2x mainline)
DEN-BUR (1x mainline)
DEN-CLT (2x mainline)
DEN-RIC (2x mainline)
DEN-ORF (1x mainline)


It's three steps forward, two steps back for UA in terms of growth, DEN-MCI went back to all regional for example, but I think DEN has great potential for UA.

They just need to add a few more banks and continue the above trend.

With F9 cutting back (on a long term basis) both carriers should do fine, but UA is better placed than it was years ago, when there was talk of closing the DEN hub.
A Traddie wannaby---UA DL LH NW AA --- Next IND-DEN UA CR7
"Born in Wonder, Brought to Wisdom"
 
SPREE34
Posts: 1671
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:58 pm

What would happen? The City of Denver would be way behind on adding the needed gates and infrastructure. Oh,....wait,.....that's happening now.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 2221
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:17 pm

SPREE34 wrote:
What would happen? The City of Denver would be way behind on adding the needed gates and infrastructure. Oh,....wait,.....that's happening now.

Heh...show me ONE airport in the US that is proactive in future growth and renovations.
 
EvanWSFO
Posts: 483
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Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:20 pm

What would happen? A lot of blue 737's. UA isn't going to let WN pass them.
 
ucdtim17
Posts: 434
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Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:28 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
WN has already overtaken UA on many routes IND/STL/BNA/BWI/MKE/MCI/ABQ?/PHX/etc., and overall, in terms of capacity and local traffic.


Also replaced UA entirely on DEN-OAK
 
727LOVER
Posts: 7884
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:44 pm

xjetflyer2001 wrote:
What would happen if/when at this rate Southwest overtakes United as the busiest carrier at Denver Airport? Anything?


It already has

Dec 2017
WN 158798
UA 1478518

https://www.flydenver.com/sites/default ... evised.pdf


Jan 2018
WN 1436392
UA 1384664

https://www.flydenver.com/sites/default ... denver.pdf
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1433
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Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:50 pm

I would "Luv" to see Southwest Airlines have a larger presence and fly more passengers to even more cities from Denver.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of.
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1433
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:56 pm

And when it comes to EUG / MFR - DEN, why not have only one mainline departure in the morning and return at night. Then the rest of the flights go to SFO.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of.
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 787
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Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:15 pm

You’d likely see a different story if you measured ASMs. I’m fairly certainly WN is also #1 domestically on emplanements so it’s not surprising to see them #1 in Denver.
 
sldispatcher
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Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:47 pm

Doesn't UAL still hold a yield advantage? And who cares what percent of the total market you have if you are leading in the revenue side of things? Didn't testosterone markers like number of flights/size of planes keep the industry in a tailspin for a couple of decades?

From what I can tell, UAL has quite a few markets to increase frequency on if they can (a) figure out more banks at DEN and (b) get the aircraft to do it with.

Since I have to drive 3 - 4 hours for the closest WN flight vs. 18 minutes for the closest UAL flight...guess which one earns my business and my $$?
 
739er
Posts: 35
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Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:55 pm

    WHERE can you go on this planet with Southwest’s Rapid Rewards?

    WHERE can’t you go on this planet with United Airlines’ MileagePlus?

    Just sayin’
     
    caljn
    Posts: 195
    Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:37 pm

    Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

    Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:48 am

    While you got to credit WN for their model and respect their remarkably quick turn arounds, no Economy Plus makes their product untenable for frequent flyers. Especially trips over 90 minutes.
     
    planespotter20
    Posts: 167
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    Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

    Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:58 am

    All of Denver would be sucked into a black hole formed by the singularity created once UA is surpassed. Colorado would implode, causing a massive seismic shift that causes Yellowstone to erupt, forever ending the United States of America as the country is buried in 10 meters of ash.

    In all seriousness, not much would change, except that a new leader would be present in the DEN airport and UA would feel pretty salty.
     
    jplatts
    Posts: 1492
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    Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

    Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:06 am

    739er wrote:
      WHERE can you go on this planet with Southwest’s Rapid Rewards?

      WHERE can’t you go on this planet with United Airlines’ MileagePlus?

      Just sayin’


      WN does serve MDW, DAL, HOU, ISP, LGB, and OAK, but UA does not serve any of these 6 destinations. However, UA does serve ORD, DFW, IAH, LGA, EWR, LAX, SNA, SFO, and SJC.

      There are also some smaller destinations in the Pacific Northwest and Mountain West that are not served by UA but that are served by DL out of its SLC and/or SEA hubs.
       
      DfwRevolution
      Posts: 9152
      Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

      Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

      Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:13 am

      caljn wrote:
      While you got to credit WN for their model and respect their remarkably quick turn arounds, no Economy Plus makes their product untenable for frequent flyers. Especially trips over 90 minutes.


      That's dead, dead wrong. WN has huge loyalty from frequent fliers because of their high frequencies, direct flights, flexible terms, and consistent product. Untenable? You don't know what you're talking about.
      I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
       
      727200
      Posts: 449
      Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:31 pm

      Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

      Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:17 am

      739er wrote:
        WHERE can you go on this planet with Southwest’s Rapid Rewards?

        WHERE can’t you go on this planet with United Airlines’ MileagePlus?

        Just sayin’


        TOUCHE! Conversation over.

        I have always said just stand in the lobby of both carriers and look at the clientele. Its pretty obvious where the dollars are going to based on customer profile.
         
        fry530
        Posts: 109
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        Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

        Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:19 am

        As long as UA isn’t bleeding money in DEN, which according to Kirby that’s not the case, it wouldn’t really result in any negative change. They may even be more aggressive in competing with WN.

        DEN is a multi hub city. It has been for a long time, and it’s growing which means that only becomes more feasible. WN and UA can have large hubs here simoultaneously, especially if F9 keeps doing what they’re doing.
        319 320 321 332 333 722 733 735 73G 738 739 744 752 763 772 77W CR2 CR7 Q400 E145 E170 DC10 MD80
        AA BA BD CO DL EI HP NW NZ UA U2 WN
         
        Busyboy2
        Posts: 42
        Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:57 am

        Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

        Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:33 am

        dc10lover wrote:
        I would "Luv" to see Southwest Airlines have a larger presence and fly more passengers to even more cities from Denver.


        As soon as we get more Aircraft It's going to happen.
         
        caljn
        Posts: 195
        Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:37 pm

        Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

        Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:44 am

        DfwRevolution wrote:
        caljn wrote:
        While you got to credit WN for their model and respect their remarkably quick turn arounds, no Economy Plus makes their product untenable for frequent flyers. Especially trips over 90 minutes.


        That's dead, dead wrong. WN has huge loyalty from frequent fliers because of their high frequencies, direct flights, flexible terms, and consistent product. Untenable? You don't know what you're talking about.



        "you don't know what you're talking about." (Let me guess, you're single?)
        I do know what I will put up with...as an A-List member and frequent traveler I choose WN yes, because of their high frequencies. But when UA has a comparable departure time I will fly them and happily enjoy E+. Other FF's may be fine endurinig over 90 minute discomfort, not me.
         
        DfwRevolution
        Posts: 9152
        Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

        Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

        Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:00 am

        caljn wrote:
        DfwRevolution wrote:
        caljn wrote:
        While you got to credit WN for their model and respect their remarkably quick turn arounds, no Economy Plus makes their product untenable for frequent flyers. Especially trips over 90 minutes.


        That's dead, dead wrong. WN has huge loyalty from frequent fliers because of their high frequencies, direct flights, flexible terms, and consistent product. Untenable? You don't know what you're talking about.



        "you don't know what you're talking about." (Let me guess, you're single?)
        I do know what I will put up with...as an A-List member and frequent traveler I choose WN yes, because of their high frequencies. But when UA has a comparable departure time I will fly them and happily enjoy E+. Other FF's may be fine endurinig over 90 minute discomfort, not me.


        Your individual preference is not representative of the population. You are making a claim that is verifiably wrong.
        I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
         
        caljn
        Posts: 195
        Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:37 pm

        Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

        Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:01 am

        DfwRevolution wrote:
        caljn wrote:
        DfwRevolution wrote:

        That's dead, dead wrong. WN has huge loyalty from frequent fliers because of their high frequencies, direct flights, flexible terms, and consistent product. Untenable? You don't know what you're talking about.



        "you don't know what you're talking about." (Let me guess, you're single?)
        I do know what I will put up with...as an A-List member and frequent traveler I choose WN yes, because of their high frequencies. But when UA has a comparable departure time I will fly them and happily enjoy E+. Other FF's may be fine endurinig over 90 minute discomfort, not me.


        Your individual preference is not representative of the population. You are making a claim that is verifiably wrong.



        My individual preference is not representative of the population? Thank you! Mom was right, I am special!
         
        SkyVoice
        Posts: 184
        Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:34 pm

        Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

        Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:55 am

        While cal & Dfw are busy exchanging pleasantries, I shall attempt to steer this thread back on course.

        xjetflyer2001 wrote:
        What would happen if/when at this rate Southwest overtakes United as the busiest carrier at Denver Airport? Anything?


        Nothing, really. Maybe I could see United attempting something like the TORQUE program that they had back in the 1980s when they were putting the screws to Frank Lorenzo's Continental over at Stapleton. But, it's an entirely different world today. And, while Frontier is but a shadow of its former DEN self, the current incarnation of Frontier has a very loyal following in & around the Mile High City, and that will continue.
        "Son, don't ever try to make sense out of nonsense." - my grandmother
         
        compensateme
        Posts: 2384
        Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

        Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

        Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:15 am

        739er wrote:
          WHERE can you go on this planet with Southwest’s Rapid Rewards?

          WHERE can’t you go on this planet with United Airlines’ MileagePlus?

          Just sayin’


          Seriously? Unless you’re a true UA FF — and weee talking about a percentage of the population that’s in the single digits — you ain’t going anywheee for a long, long time. And beyond that, you’ve been reading too much FlyerTalk - the average family is more concerned about getting to Grandma’s or takinf a trip to Disney World than they are flying
          To Asia..
          If you are an American who drives an auto built by a foreign-owned company yet complains about your favorite airline buying Airbus, then you are nothing more than a whiny hypocrite.
           
          Rdh3e
          Posts: 3291
          Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

          Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

          Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:26 am

          727LOVER wrote:
          It already has

          An abject failure to understand the data. You are not including United Express.

          Additionally, in terms of growth a good way to look at it is what carriers are doing in their schedules.

          Q2 2018 YOY Flights
          UA +11.0% (~41 additional daily departures YOY)
          WN +0.3% (~0.5 additional daily departures YOY)

          Q2 2018 YOY Seats
          UA +7.3% (~2,950 additional daily seats YOY)
          WN +2.1% (~620 additional daily seats YOY)
           
          slcdeltarumd11
          Posts: 3845
          Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

          Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

          Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:15 am

          Lets remember Frontier gave back gates which allowed Delta to move into A, and Southwest to gain more and control all of C. That was a really needed move for Southwest. They will continue to need more gates, but that really helped.

          Will Denver be a two hub airport YES. But both airlines do lots of connections so its not a really a problem its a huge transfer operation for both. O&D is the gravy on top but both can make money there. Its not big enough for three hubs but that is old news. Who is one versus two is not a metric either airline cares about its making money that matters, they are both large.
           
          User avatar
          ADent
          Posts: 999
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          Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

          Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:33 am

          Nothing really.
          UA has B concourse and WN C. The city is expanding both.

          How is the airfield doing with all this traffic? The train is getting pretty full.
           
          BC77008
          Posts: 414
          Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:48 pm

          Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

          Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:24 pm

          xjetflyer2001 wrote:

          What would happen if/when at this rate Southwest overtakes United as the busiest carrier at Denver Airport? Anything?

          United will pack up and move back to Stapleton, and they will take the DEN airport code with them! :lol:
          MY favorite airline and hub is bigger and/or better than YOUR favorite airline and hub!
           
          739er
          Posts: 35
          Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:53 am

          Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

          Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:53 pm

          compensateme wrote:
          739er wrote:
            WHERE can you go on this planet with Southwest’s Rapid Rewards?

            WHERE can’t you go on this planet with United Airlines’ MileagePlus?

            Just sayin’


            Seriously? Unless you’re a true UA FF — and weee talking about a percentage of the population that’s in the single digits — you ain’t going anywheee for a long, long time. And beyond that, you’ve been reading too much FlyerTalk - the average family is more concerned about getting to Grandma’s or takinf a trip to Disney World than they are flying
            To Asia..

            Well, Ok... Grandma's... Disney...got it. International air travel? Wow! What was I thinking? ... Luv it!
            Last edited by 739er on Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:09 pm, edited 4 times in total.
             
            simairlinenet
            Posts: 771
            Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:24 am

            Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

            Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:02 pm

            To inject some reality into this debate, here are scheduled numbers for 2018 from current OAG data.

            Departures/Day
            United 418 / 58%
            Southwest 161 / 22%
            Frontier 37 / 5%
            Other 108 / 15%

            Destinations
            United 149
            Frontier 80
            Southwest 67

            Seats/Day
            United 43,605 / 48%
            Southwest 24,742 / 27%
            Frontier 6,716 / 7%
            Other 15,949 / 18%

            ASMs/Day
            United 42.7 million / 46%
            Southwest 23.1 million / 25%
            Frontier 6.5 million / 7%
            Other 21.4 million / 23%
             
            compensateme
            Posts: 2384
            Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

            Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

            Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:34 pm

            739er wrote:
            Well, Ok... Grandma's... Disney...got it. International air travel? Wow! What was I thinking? ... Luv it!


            In 20 years, when you collect enough UA miles to fly international business, be sure to write a trip report about it!!!
            If you are an American who drives an auto built by a foreign-owned company yet complains about your favorite airline buying Airbus, then you are nothing more than a whiny hypocrite.
             
            739er
            Posts: 35
            Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:53 am

            Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

            Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:45 pm

            compensateme wrote:
            739er wrote:
            Well, Ok... Grandma's... Disney...got it. International air travel? Wow! What was I thinking? ... Luv it!


            In 20 years, when you collect enough UA miles to fly international business, be sure to write a trip report about it!!!


            Uh,...ok 20 years. Meanwhile, enjoy Tucson layovers and M.U.L.E. ;)
             
            airfrnt
            Posts: 2125
            Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:05 am

            Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

            Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:43 pm

            A few things to this discussion:
            1) Both UA and WN plan aggressive international and domestic expansions of their Denver hub.
            2) Denver is adding a massive amount of gates to keep up with the demand. Each concourse will be fully built out within the next 6-7 years, plus the main terminal is being expanded with a new security configuration.
            3) Denver itself is growing, which is part of the driving force.
            4) It remains to be seen if the international growth will continue, or can be continued given Norwegians health, and the large growth of other carriers (particularly European). It's worth nothing that mos to of the international grown is _not_ UA.
             
            User avatar
            FA9295
            Posts: 808
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            Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

            Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:19 pm

            I don't think Southwest will be overtaking United at DEN anytime soon:

            https://www.airlinereporter.com/2018/04 ... -airlines/

            According to this article, DEN is United's most profitable hub.
            Next flights:
            PDX-MSP-PDX (Delta)
            PDX-LAX-MIA (American)
            MCO-DFW-PDX (American)
             
            727LOVER
            Posts: 7884
            Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

            Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

            Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:28 pm

            Rdh3e wrote:
            727LOVER wrote:
            It already has
            An abject failure to understand the data. You are not including United Express.


            I understand the data, thank you. :roll: You are correct about UAX...and, I did that ON PURPOSE. That is how airports report traffic data.
            Airports have separate contracts with regionals on rent, leases, fees, etc.
            They report regional traffic as separate.

            I am curious, how does Denver media categorize DEN's largest airline.
            "We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
             
            mattnrsa
            Posts: 389
            Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2002 12:27 pm

            Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

            Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:14 pm

            simairlinenet wrote:
            To inject some reality into this debate, here are scheduled numbers for 2018 from current OAG data.

            Departures/Day
            United 418 / 58%
            Southwest 161 / 22%
            Frontier 37 / 5%
            Other 108 / 15%

            ...and with the renewed focus on growth, UA will be at approximately 460 departures this summer.
             
            boilerla
            Posts: 402
            Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:30 am

            Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

            Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:18 pm

            compensateme wrote:
            739er wrote:
            Well, Ok... Grandma's... Disney...got it. International air travel? Wow! What was I thinking? ... Luv it!


            In 20 years, when you collect enough UA miles to fly international business, be sure to write a trip report about it!!!

            It's really not that difficult. My next trip on UA is a paid J ticket on the company dime to Asia which will earn me 40,500 award miles. The trip after that is 7,400 miles--that's for a domestic flight. A one way saver ticket to Europe in J is 60k so I'm basically there; I got 4 saver tickets last year to Europe so they're not that hard to find if you know what you're doing. If you have a Chase card, you can get the 60k just with purchases.

            It's no wonder airlines are upping the prices for award tickets since they give out miles like candy. And UA FF's in hub cities like Denver know it too; why do you think it's near impossible to get a complimentary upgrade these days? I know 1Ks who upgrade every flight over a couple of hours using their miles simply because they earn so many per trip, it's stupid to take a chance on a CPU.
             
            strfyr51
            Posts: 2908
            Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

            Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

            Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:11 pm

            ucdtim17 wrote:
            SumChristianus wrote:
            WN has already overtaken UA on many routes IND/STL/BNA/BWI/MKE/MCI/ABQ?/PHX/etc., and overall, in terms of capacity and local traffic.


            Also replaced UA entirely on DEN-OAK

            They didn't replace UA at Oakland. UA pulled out of OAK over some "Dingbat" reason about the Terminal upgrades they weren't going to get!!.
            A LOT of us UAL'ers were hacked off about it too !! But it is what it is..
             
            compensateme
            Posts: 2384
            Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

            Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

            Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:37 pm

            boilerla wrote:
            compensateme wrote:
            739er wrote:
            Well, Ok... Grandma's... Disney...got it. International air travel? Wow! What was I thinking? ... Luv it!


            In 20 years, when you collect enough UA miles to fly international business, be sure to write a trip report about it!!!

            It's really not that difficult. My next trip on UA is a paid J ticket on the company dime to Asia...


            Yes, it is that difficult. What percentage of the population do you believe travels on company-paid international business? I’d bet it’s in the low single digits. For those people, MP may be the other program. To everyone else, RR is certainly worthy.

            BTW, I travel several times a year in company-paid international business, and the last place I’d ever spend my miles on is international business. I like to spend my vacations traveling to or with family.

            My whole point is in response to the implied assertion that only a fool would choose RR — for many people, it’s a better program than MP.
            If you are an American who drives an auto built by a foreign-owned company yet complains about your favorite airline buying Airbus, then you are nothing more than a whiny hypocrite.
             
            Swadian
            Posts: 341
            Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:56 am

            Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

            Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:35 pm

            UA seems to always be trying to fight back at hubs like DEN, LAX, ORD, and IAD. I find it surprising they fly out of LGA at all, especially LGA-MTJ.

            Concur that UA will do fine in DEN but not sure how they expect more growth from a city that's already overserved for its size (DEN is the 4th largest airport in the US by passenger numbers but not even in the Top 10 largest metro areas).
            SMS Markgraf
            Streamliner Lines Motorcoach Scheduler
             
            slcdeltarumd11
            Posts: 3845
            Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

            Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

            Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:19 pm

            Swadian wrote:
            UA seems to always be trying to fight back at hubs like DEN, LAX, ORD, and IAD. I find it surprising they fly out of LGA at all, especially LGA-MTJ.

            Concur that UA will do fine in DEN but not sure how they expect more growth from a city that's already overserved for its size (DEN is the 4th largest airport in the US by passenger numbers but not even in the Top 10 largest metro areas).


            That is a Saturday only flight in ski season and i think its revenue guaranteed by Telluride Resort. Its basically easy money and United is the largest carrier at that airport, so it makes sense for them to fly it.
             
            subramak1
            Posts: 107
            Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:21 pm

            Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

            Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:23 pm

            DfwRevolution wrote:
            caljn wrote:
            While you got to credit WN for their model and respect their remarkably quick turn arounds, no Economy Plus makes their product untenable for frequent flyers. Especially trips over 90 minutes.


            That's dead, dead wrong. WN has huge loyalty from frequent fliers because of their high frequencies, direct flights, flexible terms, and consistent product. Untenable? You don't know what you're talking about.


            What I love about WN is the high frequency, flexiblity, what I dont like is lack of premium product like domestic first class. However WN knows what works for them, I know what I want - so they are no longer my preferred carrier

            Subu
             
            ucdtim17
            Posts: 434
            Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:38 pm

            Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

            Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:26 pm

            strfyr51 wrote:
            ucdtim17 wrote:
            SumChristianus wrote:
            WN has already overtaken UA on many routes IND/STL/BNA/BWI/MKE/MCI/ABQ?/PHX/etc., and overall, in terms of capacity and local traffic.


            Also replaced UA entirely on DEN-OAK

            They didn't replace UA at Oakland. UA pulled out of OAK over some "Dingbat" reason about the Terminal upgrades they weren't going to get!!.
            A LOT of us UAL'ers were hacked off about it too !! But it is what it is..


            How’s that not replacing? UA used to fly DEN-OAK, then WN started, then UA pulled out. Maybe displaced is more precise but “replace” is also clearly correct.
             
            boilerla
            Posts: 402
            Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:30 am

            Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

            Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:51 pm

            Swadian wrote:
            UA seems to always be trying to fight back at hubs like DEN, LAX, ORD, and IAD. I find it surprising they fly out of LGA at all, especially LGA-MTJ.

            Concur that UA will do fine in DEN but not sure how they expect more growth from a city that's already overserved for its size (DEN is the 4th largest airport in the US by passenger numbers but not even in the Top 10 largest metro areas).

            DEN is not served based on its metro size, but its geographic location. It's centrally located in the western US, which is growing very fast.

            The DEN connections are driving the growth, not O&D.
             
            simairlinenet
            Posts: 771
            Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:24 am

            Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

            Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:32 am

            boilerla wrote:
            DEN is not served based on its metro size, but its geographic location. It's centrally located in the western US, which is growing very fast.

            In addition, DEN's remote geographic location helps make O&D demand for air travel strong for the population base. Similarly, PHL (where people can easily drive to major cities) is weakened by this effect.
             
            SPREE34
            Posts: 1671
            Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

            Re: What would happen at DEN if Southwest overtakes United?

            Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:27 pm

            ADent wrote:
            ........How is the airfield doing with all this traffic? The train is getting pretty full.


            Yup, and no plans to fix that, that the city has mentioned. Iv'e said it before, they blew it when the didn't do it Atlanta style giving you the option to walk. Denver should be out there boring a new route as we type.
            I don't understand everything I don't know about this.

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