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STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:21 am
by Alexdk
It has been discussed that DL STR-ATL flight is largely devoted to the Mercedes factory in Alabama. Yet it is whole 300 km (200mi) from the airport. Is BHM to small to support the scheduled flights from STR by DE or EW? Are there any STR-BHM charters or at least business jet flights?
Same question for MUC-CLT. What is the approximate share of LH’s traffic on this route connected to the BMW plant? Did AA/US ever do/consider such a route? Are there any MUC-GSP charters or business jet flights (there are definitely cargo flights)?

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:07 am
by Midwestindy
Alexdk wrote:
It has been discussed that DL STR-ATL flight is largely devoted to the Mercedes factory in Alabama. Yet it is whole 300 km (200mi) from the airport. Is BHM to small to support the scheduled flights from STR by DE or EW? Are there any STR-BHM charters or at least business jet flights?
Same question for MUC-CLT. What is the approximate share of LH’s traffic on this route connected to the BMW plant? Did AA/US ever do/consider such a route? Are there any MUC-GSP charters or business jet flights (there are definitely cargo flights)?


The DL STR-ATL is because of Mercedes US headquarters in ATL, not the factory in Alabama, although the factory close by probably helps.

BHM is way too small for flight to STR, they don't even have service to LAX, SFO, SEA, BOS, e.t.c

No idea on the MUC-CLT route though

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:33 am
by Cubsrule
Midwestindy wrote:
Alexdk wrote:
It has been discussed that DL STR-ATL flight is largely devoted to the Mercedes factory in Alabama. Yet it is whole 300 km (200mi) from the airport. Is BHM to small to support the scheduled flights from STR by DE or EW? Are there any STR-BHM charters or at least business jet flights?
Same question for MUC-CLT. What is the approximate share of LH’s traffic on this route connected to the BMW plant? Did AA/US ever do/consider such a route? Are there any MUC-GSP charters or business jet flights (there are definitely cargo flights)?


The DL STR-ATL is because of Mercedes US headquarters in ATL, not the factory in Alabama, although the factory close by probably helps.

BHM is way too small for flight to STR, they don't even have service to LAX, SFO, SEA, BOS, e.t.c

No idea on the MUC-CLT route though


STR-ATL predates MBUSA’s move to Atlanta by decades.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:44 am
by klm617
Cubsrule wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Alexdk wrote:
It has been discussed that DL STR-ATL flight is largely devoted to the Mercedes factory in Alabama. Yet it is whole 300 km (200mi) from the airport. Is BHM to small to support the scheduled flights from STR by DE or EW? Are there any STR-BHM charters or at least business jet flights?
Same question for MUC-CLT. What is the approximate share of LH’s traffic on this route connected to the BMW plant? Did AA/US ever do/consider such a route? Are there any MUC-GSP charters or business jet flights (there are definitely cargo flights)?


The DL STR-ATL is because of Mercedes US headquarters in ATL, not the factory in Alabama, although the factory close by probably helps.

BHM is way too small for flight to STR, they don't even have service to LAX, SFO, SEA, BOS, e.t.c

No idea on the MUC-CLT route though


STR-ATL predates MBUSA’s move to Atlanta by decades.



Exactly it has nothing to do with the automotive industry I am sure that premium revenue helps now but at it's inception I think it was more for military traffic between the south and southern Germany. So it was the Star hub and it's connections that made this flight possible and the BMW contracts that keep it going

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:47 am
by klm617
Alexdk wrote:
It has been discussed that DL STR-ATL flight is largely devoted to the Mercedes factory in Alabama. Yet it is whole 300 km (200mi) from the airport. Is BHM to small to support the scheduled flights from STR by DE or EW? Are there any STR-BHM charters or at least business jet flights?
Same question for MUC-CLT. What is the approximate share of LH’s traffic on this route connected to the BMW plant? Did AA/US ever do/consider such a route? Are there any MUC-GSP charters or business jet flights (there are definitely cargo flights)?



MUC-CLT was started when CLT was a Star hub and I'm sure it had the contracts to keep the flight viable after US Airways left star to join American.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:00 pm
by LAX772LR
Midwestindy wrote:
The DL STR-ATL is because of Mercedes US headquarters in ATL

...except that ATL-STR was launched 29yrs before Mercedes moved their headquarters to metro ATL. ;)

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:33 pm
by ahj2000
klm617 wrote:
Alexdk wrote:
It has been discussed that DL STR-ATL flight is largely devoted to the Mercedes factory in Alabama. Yet it is whole 300 km (200mi) from the airport. Is BHM to small to support the scheduled flights from STR by DE or EW? Are there any STR-BHM charters or at least business jet flights?
Same question for MUC-CLT. What is the approximate share of LH’s traffic on this route connected to the BMW plant? Did AA/US ever do/consider such a route? Are there any MUC-GSP charters or business jet flights (there are definitely cargo flights)?



MUC-CLT was started when CLT was a Star hub and I'm sure it had the contracts to keep the flight viable after US Airways left star to join American.

Someone may be able to correct me, but I believe that CLT was a stop on the way to IAH for a while. As things progressed in CLT (USAir hub expansion, growth of CLT’s German businesses (most of which are in Southern Germany), BMW) it merited its own flight. Now, even without the *A hub here, CLT can still support a while flight to Munich a day (Local traffic to India often uses LH now) I believe someone here posted that they also get 20-30 pax interlining off the AA hub network.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:42 pm
by klm617
ahj2000 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Alexdk wrote:
It has been discussed that DL STR-ATL flight is largely devoted to the Mercedes factory in Alabama. Yet it is whole 300 km (200mi) from the airport. Is BHM to small to support the scheduled flights from STR by DE or EW? Are there any STR-BHM charters or at least business jet flights?
Same question for MUC-CLT. What is the approximate share of LH’s traffic on this route connected to the BMW plant? Did AA/US ever do/consider such a route? Are there any MUC-GSP charters or business jet flights (there are definitely cargo flights)?



MUC-CLT was started when CLT was a Star hub and I'm sure it had the contracts to keep the flight viable after US Airways left star to join American.

Someone may be able to correct me, but I believe that CLT was a stop on the way to IAH for a while. As things progressed in CLT (USAir hub expansion, growth of CLT’s German businesses (most of which are in Southern Germany), BMW) it merited its own flight. Now, even without the *A hub here, CLT can still support a while flight to Munich a day (Local traffic to India often uses LH now) I believe someone here posted that they also get 20-30 pax interlining off the AA hub network.



You are correct CLT was originally routed FRA-CLT-IAH I believe 3 days a week and then it was discontinued and brought back as MUC-CLT when US Airways was part of Star. It was stand alone in the beginning when it was operated out of FRA when CLT was a Piedmont hub.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:46 pm
by MIflyer12
Alexdk wrote:
It has been discussed that DL STR-ATL flight is largely devoted to the Mercedes factory in Alabama. Yet it is whole 300 km (200mi) from the airport. Is BHM to small to support the scheduled flights from STR by DE or EW?


Yes, BHM is too small for scheduled TATL passenger service.

Delta has nine mainline ATL-BHM flights today.

Daimler is in STR but not all of the German automotive industry is. Delta also has DUS-ATL. FRA-ATL and MUC-ATL. Hamburg would complete it but that's been gone for ~20 years, IIRC.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:08 pm
by Midwestindy
klm617 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

The DL STR-ATL is because of Mercedes US headquarters in ATL, not the factory in Alabama, although the factory close by probably helps.

BHM is way too small for flight to STR, they don't even have service to LAX, SFO, SEA, BOS, e.t.c

No idea on the MUC-CLT route though


STR-ATL predates MBUSA’s move to Atlanta by decades.



Exactly it has nothing to do with the automotive industry


Nothing to do with the auto industry??? Did I read that correctly?

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:11 pm
by TWFlyGuy
One other piece that probably helps ATL-STR is that the acquisition of PanAm's TATL gave DL a large FF base, especially in Germany. So, they had an instant audience. It's not the biggest or most important factor but definitely helps.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:52 pm
by BENAir01
Though this is also a recent development, Porsche’s US headquarters are in ATL and their global headquarters are in STR so nowadays both Mercedes-Benz and Porsche can support the flight.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:17 pm
by FSDan
Alexdk wrote:
It has been discussed that DL STR-ATL flight is largely devoted to the Mercedes factory in Alabama. Yet it is whole 300 km (200mi) from the airport.


I don't think more than a few dozen people on any given day would be flying this route specifically for the factory in Alabama. I'm sure Mercedes and Porsche help make the flight viable by providing some consistent high value traffic, but don't think this flight would survive if DL couldn't fill the rest of the plane with vacationers bound for Florida, the West Coast, etc...

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:31 pm
by mxaxai
FSDan wrote:
Alexdk wrote:
It has been discussed that DL STR-ATL flight is largely devoted to the Mercedes factory in Alabama. Yet it is whole 300 km (200mi) from the airport.


I don't think more than a few dozen people on any given day would be flying this route specifically for the factory in Alabama. I'm sure Mercedes and Porsche help make the flight viable by providing some consistent high value traffic, but don't think this flight would survive if DL couldn't fill the rest of the plane with vacationers bound for Florida, the West Coast, etc...

The industry connections, not just Mercedes and Porsche and to more places than just to their large plants or headquarters, certainly help fill the front of the plane. Note that DL117 is used not only by STR-ATL but also by ATL-BHM. At the same time, Florida and the Carribean are and have always been popular destinations for German tourists, probably one reason for the upgauge to the 767-400ER a while back. Other connections through DL's huge hub network at ATL top it off. This is also in line with the seasonal reduction of STR-ATL to 4-6 weekly in winter.

STR-NYC has been attempted but never gained much traction compared to the Atlanta flight.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:34 pm
by jasoncrh
Delta has been flying to Stuttgart from Atlanta for nearly 30 years. They started this route way before purchasing Pan Am's Europe routes. This route was always about serving a demand from Stuttgart to the US, both on the corporate side as well as the leisure side (tons of Florida and california traffic). Any Pan Am FF base (did they even have a very strong program? Did they even serve Stuttgart with more than flights to Berlin?) was, I'm sure, inconsequential in Delta's decision to start flying to stuttgart in the mid '80s, and has little to no impact on the route's ongoing success today.

TWFlyGuy wrote:
One other piece that probably helps ATL-STR is that the acquisition of PanAm's TATL gave DL a large FF base, especially in Germany. So, they had an instant audience. It's not the biggest or most important factor but definitely helps.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:38 pm
by 2Holer4Longhaul
klm617 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

The DL STR-ATL is because of Mercedes US headquarters in ATL, not the factory in Alabama, although the factory close by probably helps.

BHM is way too small for flight to STR, they don't even have service to LAX, SFO, SEA, BOS, e.t.c

No idea on the MUC-CLT route though


STR-ATL predates MBUSA’s move to Atlanta by decades.



Exactly it has nothing to do with the automotive industry I am sure that premium revenue helps now but at it's inception I think it was more for military traffic between the south and southern Germany. So it was the Star hub and it's connections that made this flight possible and the BMW contracts that keep it going

Military traffic:
1) is very low-yielding
2) goes on charters rather often
Your point is moot.
Midwestindy wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

STR-ATL predates MBUSA’s move to Atlanta by decades.



Exactly it has nothing to do with the automotive industry


Nothing to do with the auto industry??? Did I read that correctly?

Yes you did. Its writer just doesn't like the real world very much.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:28 pm
by klm617
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

STR-ATL predates MBUSA’s move to Atlanta by decades.



Exactly it has nothing to do with the automotive industry I am sure that premium revenue helps now but at it's inception I think it was more for military traffic between the south and southern Germany. So it was the Star hub and it's connections that made this flight possible and the BMW contracts that keep it going

Military traffic:
1) is very low-yielding
2) goes on charters rather often
Your point is moot.
Midwestindy wrote:
klm617 wrote:


Exactly it has nothing to do with the automotive industry


Nothing to do with the auto industry??? Did I read that correctly?

Yes you did. Its writer just doesn't like the real world very much.


We are talking about a route that was stared over 30 years ago things were a lot different at it's inception the USA still had a HUGE military presents in Germany . When ARL-STR was started there was NO auto industry in the south FACT. Riddle me this why was DL operating ATL-DXB and then dropped it when the military dropped them as a supplier.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:38 pm
by burnsie28
MUC-ATL see's a lot of BMW traffic. I've seen many of them in business class and economy when I've been on the flights before.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:51 pm
by FSDan
burnsie28 wrote:
MUC-ATL see's a lot of BMW traffic. I've seen many of them in business class and economy when I've been on the flights before.


That makes sense - many probably connect to ATL-GSP to end up right next to the plant.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:06 pm
by CV880
Daimler=Mercedes, Freightliner trucks. There are 4 Freightliner plants within 50miles of CLT, plus the BMW factory near GSP, plus Siemens turbine plant near CLT Airport.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:28 pm
by 777Mech
FSDan wrote:
burnsie28 wrote:
MUC-ATL see's a lot of BMW traffic. I've seen many of them in business class and economy when I've been on the flights before.


That makes sense - many probably connect to ATL-GSP to end up right next to the plant.


You can follow the traffic just by the flight numbers.

DL130 is a GSP-ATL-MUC route.
DL116 is a BHM-ATL-STR route.

As for FRA, maybe someone can fill me in on why DL14 is routed SLC-ATL-FRA

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:48 pm
by zrh177
For what it's worth, Charlotte also has a sizable German population.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:52 pm
by AApilot2b
All said, hub and spoke just works for this. I’ve been on that flight and I can say that without a doubt there are more than just Mercedes Benz folks on that plane. Out of Atlanta, that flight catches all the additional traffic that would not be possible in Alabama.

Love the 767-400 that flies this route!

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:16 pm
by EMB170
Cubsrule wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Alexdk wrote:

STR-ATL predates MBUSA’s move to Atlanta by decades.


:checkmark: Indeed. At one point DL 116/117 was an L15 that continued as a tag-on to BUD from ATL.

As far as CLT-MUC goes, LH actually started that route while US was still in Star as a codeshare. I think even before that, it may have existed from CLT as a 762, but I could be wrong.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:57 pm
by RDUDDJI
CLT has quite a few German companies in the area not just in the car business. The other huge piece is all the German sub suppliers for BMW in the GSP area (i.e. Dräxlmaier, ZF (also supplies other manufacturers), ThyssenKrupp, etc.).

CV880 wrote:
Daimler=Mercedes, Freightliner trucks. There are 4 Freightliner plants within 50miles of CLT, plus the BMW factory near GSP, plus Siemens turbine plant near CLT Airport.


Daimler *Trucks*=Freightliner et al. Freightliner has minuscule traffic to Germany from CLT. Daimler Trucks (incl Freightliner) HQ is in PDX.

Also I believe one of the Freightliner plants closed during the recession.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:32 pm
by Midwestindy
klm617 wrote:
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
klm617 wrote:


Exactly it has nothing to do with the automotive industry I am sure that premium revenue helps now but at it's inception I think it was more for military traffic between the south and southern Germany. So it was the Star hub and it's connections that made this flight possible and the BMW contracts that keep it going

Military traffic:
1) is very low-yielding
2) goes on charters rather often
Your point is moot.
Midwestindy wrote:

Nothing to do with the auto industry??? Did I read that correctly?

Yes you did. Its writer just doesn't like the real world very much.


We are talking about a route that was stared over 30 years ago things were a lot different at it's inception the USA still had a HUGE military presents in Germany . When ARL-STR was started there was NO auto industry in the south FACT. Riddle me this why was DL operating ATL-DXB and then dropped it when the military dropped them as a supplier.


You are grasping for stuff here, we aren't talking about why the route existed 30 years ago, we are talking about why it exists today, and that is because
1. There are a plethora of German Auto investments in the region, that benefit from an ATL-STR flight
2. There are other german industries/companies other than auto manufacturers that have major operations in the south
3. Germans frequently travel to Florida, and ATL is DL's best hub for connecting pax to florida

But, your idea that today the ATL-STR flight has nothing to do with the auto industry simply makes no sense

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:09 pm
by iadadd
CLT and the surrounding area has a sizable German corporate presence which makes the MUC-CLT service sustainable, AA also serves FRA year round from CLT. The Star hub likely gave the service a nice cushion in its inception, but even after CLT's shift to OW, LH has proven that the market is still there. CLT is also a rapidly growing Metro area and LH can capitalize on being the only foreign carrier (minus AC) in the market. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised to see them add FRA in the near future.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:15 pm
by jporterfi
777Mech wrote:
FSDan wrote:
burnsie28 wrote:
MUC-ATL see's a lot of BMW traffic. I've seen many of them in business class and economy when I've been on the flights before.


That makes sense - many probably connect to ATL-GSP to end up right next to the plant.


You can follow the traffic just by the flight numbers.

DL130 is a GSP-ATL-MUC route.
DL116 is a BHM-ATL-STR route.

As for FRA, maybe someone can fill me in on why DL14 is routed SLC-ATL-FRA


Is it merely coincidental that the BHM-ATL portion of DL116 (operated by a 738) arrives into Concourse E, or is this designed to allow easy international connections for those transferring onto the next leg of the flight (as well as other international flights).

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:38 pm
by AVLAirlineFreq
iadadd wrote:
CLT and the surrounding area has a sizable German corporate presence which makes the MUC-CLT service sustainable, AA also serves FRA year round from CLT. The Star hub likely gave the service a nice cushion in its inception, but even after CLT's shift to OW, LH has proven that the market is still there.


Indeed. Not only is there a significant German presence, but much of it is specifically Bavarian.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:31 pm
by FSDan
jporterfi wrote:
777Mech wrote:
FSDan wrote:

That makes sense - many probably connect to ATL-GSP to end up right next to the plant.


You can follow the traffic just by the flight numbers.

DL130 is a GSP-ATL-MUC route.
DL116 is a BHM-ATL-STR route.

As for FRA, maybe someone can fill me in on why DL14 is routed SLC-ATL-FRA


Is it merely coincidental that the BHM-ATL portion of DL116 (operated by a 738) arrives into Concourse E, or is this designed to allow easy international connections for those transferring onto the next leg of the flight (as well as other international flights).


Does DL116 always arrive on E? If so, I'd imagine it's an aircraft that continues on to an international destination.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:18 pm
by factsonly
jasoncrh wrote:
Delta has been flying to Stuttgart from Atlanta for nearly 30 years. They started this route way before purchasing Pan Am's Europe routes. This route was always about serving a demand from Stuttgart to the US, both on the corporate side as well as the leisure side (tons of Florida and california traffic). Any Pan Am FF base (did they even have a very strong program? Did they even serve Stuttgart with more than flights to Berlin?) was, I'm sure, inconsequential in Delta's decision to start flying to stuttgart in the mid '80s, and has little to no impact on the route's ongoing success today.

TWFlyGuy wrote:
One other piece that probably helps ATL-STR is that the acquisition of PanAm's TATL gave DL a large FF base, especially in Germany. So, they had an instant audience. It's not the biggest or most important factor but definitely helps.


Delta launched ATL-STR as:

- DL38 ATL-AMS-STR L15 daily
- DL39 STR-AMS-ATL L15 daily

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:14 pm
by LH982
US Army has a very large presence just west of Stuttgart. It also has a considerable presence on the daily Delta service. Automotive also plays a major part, both with the big players and the myriad of small engineering companies.

It's also useful for all the people going to the US who don't fancy going via Frankfurt or Munich

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:23 pm
by PanHAM
There are at least 500 Geran firms on Location in NC , SC, GA AL A freight forwarder hat a 747, or still has that runs LUX HSV. Another freight forwarder charter serves HHN to ??? not sure if they fly to GSP direct.

For that LUX HSV flight the freight was pre-cleared and loaded on trucks for direct connection to BMW..

BTW, FRA jas a large industrial aitomobile Cluster as well

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:42 pm
by LH982
PanHAM wrote:
There are at least 500 Geran firms on Location in NC , SC, GA AL A freight forwarder hat a 747, or still has that runs LUX HSV. Another freight forwarder charter serves HHN to ??? not sure if they fly to GSP direct.

For that LUX HSV flight the freight was pre-cleared and loaded on trucks for direct connection to BMW..

BTW, FRA jas a large industrial aitomobile Cluster as well


I don't think people realise how many small and medium automotive/engineering companies there are in Germany, and how important and profitable they are. It's not all VW, Daimler, BMW and PSA

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:09 pm
by G650corpfa
Delta started flying ATL-ORY-STR then ATL-AMS-STR and at one point had ATL-STR- BUD. It was first on a L1011-500, L1011-250 then G767-300. I flew this trip as a Purser and as a LOD-German for nearly 21 years. ATL-ORY-STR on a Saturday was one of the most junior flight attendant trip do to the layover in Sindelfingen, GR. The hotel was in the middle of nowhere and the highlight of the trip was buying beer out of a vending machine. When the trip was moved as ATL-STR and the layover was at the InterContinental it became one of the most senior trips to flay. I have may great memories in my flying career.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:18 pm
by Cubsrule
FSDan wrote:
jporterfi wrote:
777Mech wrote:

You can follow the traffic just by the flight numbers.

DL130 is a GSP-ATL-MUC route.
DL116 is a BHM-ATL-STR route.

As for FRA, maybe someone can fill me in on why DL14 is routed SLC-ATL-FRA


Is it merely coincidental that the BHM-ATL portion of DL116 (operated by a 738) arrives into Concourse E, or is this designed to allow easy international connections for those transferring onto the next leg of the flight (as well as other international flights).


Does DL116 always arrive on E? If so, I'd imagine it's an aircraft that continues on to an international destination.


This is anecdotal, but it seems to me like the super short flights (BHM, GSP, CHA) are somewhat more likely to arrive on E than others. Perhaps that's because of the lack of O&D passengers and the relative inconvenience of E for those folks.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:33 pm
by DaufuskieGuy
In addition to BMW, Siemens is also HQ'd in Munich and I'm guessing they have more US employees (their worldwide # is 377,000) than BMW does. The aforementioned Siemens offices in NC support the CLT flight while ATL has both a Siemens office and is the best connecting hub for points south and west coming from Europe.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:35 pm
by EMB170
G650corpfa wrote:
Delta started flying ATL-ORY-STR then ATL-AMS-STR and at one point had ATL-STR- BUD. It was first on a L1011-500, L1011-250 then G767-300. I flew this trip as a Purser and as a LOD-German for nearly 21 years. ATL-ORY-STR on a Saturday was one of the most junior flight attendant trip do to the layover in Sindelfingen, GR. The hotel was in the middle of nowhere and the highlight of the trip was buying beer out of a vending machine. When the trip was moved as ATL-STR and the layover was at the InterContinental it became one of the most senior trips to flay. I have may great memories in my flying career.


IIRC I believe when it was ATL-STR-BUD it also even carried an MA codeshare as either MA 94/95 or 96/97. DL later moved the BUD tag to DL 146/147 as ATL-VIE-BUD before dropping BUD as a destination altogether.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:45 pm
by G650corpfa
Delta started flying ATL-ORY-STR around 1986. Delta has changed the route many times, I flew ATL-AMS-STR and at one point had ATL-STR- BUD. It was first on a L1011-500, L1011-250. At that time Delta had and the L100-500( PUD- Pan Am then United and Delta aircraft) then came the 767-300G (Gulf Airlines former aircraft). I flew this trip being on Reserve, Purser and as a LOD-German for nearly 21 years. ATL-ORY-STR on a Saturday was one of the most junior flight attendant trips due to the layover near Sindelfingen, GR. The hotel was in the middle of nowhere, but was near a shopping mall. However everything was closed on Sunday. One of the highlights of the trip was buying beer out of a vending machine at the hotel. When the trip was moved as ATL-STR non-stop and the layover was at the InterContinental and then Steigenburger Graf Zepplin hotels, it became one of the most senior trips to work. The FC and BC passengers from STR are from BMW and Mercedes. The YC passengers were tourist and US military. The flights has always been full. The transit flights were the hardest to work due to the long transit times, no crew rest and fast meal service between the transit city and STR.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:33 pm
by klm617
Midwestindy wrote:
klm617 wrote:
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
Military traffic:
1) is very low-yielding
2) goes on charters rather often
Your point is moot.

Yes you did. Its writer just doesn't like the real world very much.


We are talking about a route that was stared over 30 years ago things were a lot different at it's inception the USA still had a HUGE military presents in Germany . When ARL-STR was started there was NO auto industry in the south FACT. Riddle me this why was DL operating ATL-DXB and then dropped it when the military dropped them as a supplier.


You are grasping for stuff here, we aren't talking about why the route existed 30 years ago, we are talking about why it exists today, and that is because
1. There are a plethora of German Auto investments in the region, that benefit from an ATL-STR flight
2. There are other german industries/companies other than auto manufacturers that have major operations in the south
3. Germans frequently travel to Florida, and ATL is DL's best hub for connecting pax to florida

But, your idea that today the ATL-STR flight has nothing to do with the auto industry simply makes no sense


When the route was started it had NOTHING to do with the auto industry. Of course it now contributes revenue to the route but in 1986 Delta had no crystal ball to know the Mercedes Benz and Porsche would have had quarters in ATL of that there would be an assembly plant in AL that's what I said. ATL-STR when created was not started because of anything automotive but yes it probably contributes to DL maintaining the route today.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:59 pm
by slcdeltarumd11
The headquarters help boost these flights but they are not flying enough people to support these flights. These flights exist because they offer hundreds of one-stop connections, the HQs are just a nice bonus which makes them worth flying and profitable but not the sole reason these flights exist and are successful.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:19 pm
by awhorto1
Speaking from experience (I work in OPS in ATL) - there are very few if any guarantees on where a domestic inbound aircraft will park. It's more or less based on aircraft type - RJ's on D, 717's on C, MD-88's on B, 757 and 321's on A. 737's are a wild card. E/F can handle any aircraft type, and domestic inbounds that get gated on E/F are typically based on where that aircraft is headed next. We don't park DL 130 (GSP-ATL) on E just because 130 (ATL-MUC) leaves out of E. Thru flights are nothing more than a marketing scheme.

P.S. - Y'all should see the ramp guys unload brand spanking new Porsche's from MUC...quite the sight to see.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:53 pm
by FSDan
awhorto1 wrote:
Speaking from experience (I work in OPS in ATL) - there are very few if any guarantees on where a domestic inbound aircraft will park. It's more or less based on aircraft type - RJ's on D, 717's on C, MD-88's on B, 757 and 321's on A. 737's are a wild card. E/F can handle any aircraft type, and domestic inbounds that get gated on E/F are typically based on where that aircraft is headed next. We don't park DL 130 (GSP-ATL) on E just because 130 (ATL-MUC) leaves out of E. Thru flights are nothing more than a marketing scheme.

P.S. - Y'all should see the ramp guys unload brand spanking new Porsche's from MUC...quite the sight to see.


Is F still used for outbound flights to O&D-heavy business markets like LGA and DCA? Or is it more random than that?

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:57 pm
by asuflyer05
RDUDDJI wrote:
CLT has quite a few German companies in the area not just in the car business. The other huge piece is all the German sub suppliers for BMW in the GSP area (i.e. Dräxlmaier, ZF (also supplies other manufacturers), ThyssenKrupp, etc.).

CV880 wrote:
Daimler=Mercedes, Freightliner trucks. There are 4 Freightliner plants within 50miles of CLT, plus the BMW factory near GSP, plus Siemens turbine plant near CLT Airport.


Daimler *Trucks*=Freightliner et al. Freightliner has minuscule traffic to Germany from CLT. Daimler Trucks (incl Freightliner) HQ is in PDX.

Also I believe one of the Freightliner plants closed during the recession.


There is a significant Daimler operation outside of Charleston. There is a larger factory under construction for Mercedes-Benz Vans USA.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:57 pm
by awhorto1
FSDan wrote:
awhorto1 wrote:
Speaking from experience (I work in OPS in ATL) - there are very few if any guarantees on where a domestic inbound aircraft will park. It's more or less based on aircraft type - RJ's on D, 717's on C, MD-88's on B, 757 and 321's on A. 737's are a wild card. E/F can handle any aircraft type, and domestic inbounds that get gated on E/F are typically based on where that aircraft is headed next. We don't park DL 130 (GSP-ATL) on E just because 130 (ATL-MUC) leaves out of E. Thru flights are nothing more than a marketing scheme.

P.S. - Y'all should see the ramp guys unload brand spanking new Porsche's from MUC...quite the sight to see.


Is F still used for outbound flights to O&D-heavy business markets like LGA and DCA? Or is it more random than that?



It does vary, but due to the layout of security, it's preferred that LGA, DCA, DFW depart out of T. It's MUCH quicker for O&D pax to get in and out of T concourse, especially those early-bird flights to business centers.

Re: STR-ATL, MUC-CLT and automotive industry

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:20 pm
by airbazar
jasoncrh wrote:
Delta has been flying to Stuttgart from Atlanta for nearly 30 years. They started this route way before purchasing Pan Am's Europe routes. This route was always about serving a demand from Stuttgart to the US, both on the corporate side as well as the leisure side (tons of Florida and california traffic).

Bingo!
MBUSA may have just moved their HQ to Atlanta recently but they have always been in Stuttgart and they are a very big company that surely generates a lot of traffic to all parts of the U.S. Regardless of where the US HQ is, I'm sure this factors into why DL has been flying to STR for nearly 30 years. To say that the automotive industry has nothing to do with this route is a little naive I think.