tys777
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:26 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
To be fair to Allegiant, I don't even think they would have done this. They always seem to have plenty of spares - I think even they would have organized a rescue flight...


Except that they do. I flew them once and got caught on the front end of a hurricane, instead of cancelling, they pushed everything back including running double segments on a couple routes. Even had a very helpful call center that accommodated a rescheduling request outside of the alert area.
 
P1aneMad
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:37 pm

You pay peanuts, you buy monkeys.
 
Flighty
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:41 pm

enilria wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Q wrote:
Why can't SY where USA airport can't go to MSP for cancel flight. Why can't SY fly ferry to Los Cabos to pick it up? SY can fly to MSP close nearby like RST or DBQ or DSM stay there for a few hours or overnight then snow is clear up fly back to MSP that's it. How stupid SY management are?

Q


No room in the fleet in the current schedule.

If they send a ferry flight then you disrupt say 800 people instead of 400.

They either should have put the people on other airlines and paid the bill like a normal airline, or run a flight in the middle of the night like Delta often does and pick them up at 4am thereby not significantly disrupting the day time schedule.

This is the type of behavior that invites new laws on the industry.


This won't be forgotten. At a minimum, Sun Country's CEO should be fired. Today.

They might have found a legal loophole here, but it's going to cost them more than they ever imagined. It's a sad day. So many people's careers are tarnished when you see something like this. And it's very CNN/Drudge friendly so it might well light up the news cycle today.
Last edited by Flighty on Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:44 pm

tys777 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
To be fair to Allegiant, I don't even think they would have done this. They always seem to have plenty of spares - I think even they would have organized a rescue flight...


Except that they do. I flew them once and got caught on the front end of a hurricane, instead of cancelling, they pushed everything back including running double segments on a couple routes. Even had a very helpful call center that accommodated a rescheduling request outside of the alert area.


I agree with you - that is what I trying to say. People are saying this move by SY is "G4-like" because the CEO came from Allegiant but I think this behaviour by SY is below even G4's standards of service...
 
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MSPSXMFLIER
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:49 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
MSPSXMFLIER wrote:
If we're honest with ourselves? Come on, jetBlue needs to get established here just like Southwest did and now look at the destinations you can take from MSP on Southwest. I fly SY for the first class seating, non-stops and for being able to leave out of T2, but who knows how much longer that will be true for me?


Hey, you're preaching to the choir!
I'll be happy to have JetBlue grow into MSP, but given their east coast focus, I question how many no-stop destinations they would ever chose to offer... here's to hoping.
Oh, and WN's service in MSP isn't exactly comprehensive..... I'm guessing you don't fly them too often either ;)

I’ve loved flying SY for more than a decade for my trips to Vegas, Puerto Rico, Costa Rica and St. Maarten. Yeah, jetBlue is east coast focused, but if it should eventually end up that this new management team flies SY into the ground, I’d like to have another option for my travels aside from DL. I’m not a Spirit or Allegiant flier (and not likely to be after the 60 Minutes piece, but I digress). Sure, non-stops are nice from MSP, but having to stop in ATL or BOS certainly won’t deter me from travelling, it will just be another change I’ll adapt to. My friends living on the east coast use B9 regularly for trips to Florida and the Caribbean and have quite positive reviews about them so that’s why I’m looking forward to their arrival in this market. Like you say, here’s to hoping they see a strong potential for this market in offering a number of cities direct from MSP. I flew WN once and that was plenty for me. I can say, ‘been there, done that’.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:50 pm

P1aneMad wrote:
You pay peanuts, you buy monkeys.


FYI - SY to Mexico/Caribbean destinations is very often *more* expensive than the comparable non-stops on Delta. SY has not been operating for 40 years based on "peanut fares".

Even still, a low fare isn't a justified invitation for callous abandonment. Basic decency calls for more.
 
tys777
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:57 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
tys777 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
To be fair to Allegiant, I don't even think they would have done this. They always seem to have plenty of spares - I think even they would have organized a rescue flight...


Except that they do. I flew them once and got caught on the front end of a hurricane, instead of cancelling, they pushed everything back including running double segments on a couple routes. Even had a very helpful call center that accommodated a rescheduling request outside of the alert area.


I agree with you - that is what I trying to say. People are saying this move by SY is "G4-like" because the CEO came from Allegiant but I think this behaviour by SY is below even G4's standards of service...


My apologies, you did say that. Apparently my reading comrehension was not up to par when I first woke up.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:14 pm

enilria wrote:
They either should have put the people on other airlines and paid the bill like a normal airline, or run a flight in the middle of the night like Delta often does and pick them up at 4am thereby not significantly disrupting the day time schedule.

This is the type of behavior that invites new laws on the industry.

Agreed. This is the stuff media and law makers will eat-up and rightfully so. The delivery of the message, especially coming from the CEO is incredibly tone-deaf and infuriating.

As others have said, its one thing if the airline has a weather event and at least attempts to reaccomodate you. It may take a few days to clear-out the backlog or get alternative flights, and as a passenger you may not like the option, but at least they give you an option if all else fails. Yes, you "are on your own" if you want to try to make alternate plans to get home earlier through other modes/options but not every passenger is as travel savy, willing/able to do so on their own means.

My flights got cancelled on DL over the weekend since I was to have connected over MSP. DL rebooked me on flights a day later which I was prepared to do so, but I ended up buying a cheap one-way on NK to get back to DTW. I requested a refund/credit for the DL segment not flown, and at the end of the day it was still cheaper that paying for extra night at a hotel and better use of my time to get home.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:33 pm

Here's a thought exercise:

It is true that many of SY's beach flights to Mexico and Carribean are filled with hotel packages booked directly thru them, particularly the smaller seasonal destinations such as ZIH, MZT. CUN is their only year round int'l destination of this type that I am aware of. CUN being what it is, likely has a higher % of package bookings that come thru Expedia and others. Personally, I've booked a CUN package thru vacationexpress in the past.

A route like SJU , I strongly suspect, is heavily geared to the cruise industry. As such, many of those cruise passengers will have booked thru even more specialized cruise agents.

All this is to wonder aloud: if cruise booking operators get nervous about SY's ability/willingness to handle IRROPS , might they drop SY (possibly killing SJU)? After all, cruise packages seem to have an even higher level of integration than land bookings. Then, as Expedia also handles cruise sales, might they drop SY completely for all bookings?

Not to be overly dramatic, but couldn't even a small event like this have a very large domino effect on a carrier like SY whose int'l ops are so dependent on package bookings?
Last edited by FlyHappy on Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:38 pm

jordanh wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
I have no idea why you insist on being obtuse. I really don't.
I've read many of your posts in the past, and the lingering impression is: "wow, that dude really does not like Delta" . All fine, I don't really care for Delta either.


Perhaps one obtuse poster got booted from his cush union position at NW and went to SY... to make excuses for them...that would explain a lot...

...just speculating... ;)


And the arrogance of some posters is a clear example of why the combined DL/NW FA group chose not to be unionized.

Any updates on the Sun Country predicament? Has anyone from the media asked the CEO why a plane wasn't chartered?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:41 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
enilria wrote:
They either should have put the people on other airlines and paid the bill like a normal airline, or run a flight in the middle of the night like Delta often does and pick them up at 4am thereby not significantly disrupting the day time schedule.



This is the kind of experience that invites government mandates. Apart from standard duty of care (meals, phone calls, and a hotel room) I can outline three options from Wash DC:

1. The carrier sends one of its planes there to depart within 24 hours

2. The carrier can charter an aircraft to depart within 24 hours

3. The carrier can book passengers over to other scheduled carriers, paying up to full published (J, Y) fares, with departures within 24 hours

Carriers that fail to do that pay a significant fine, on the order of 3x the cost of walk-up fares. Carriers that fail twice to do that within one year get their license to fly yanked. They will find adequate staff and aircraft to rebook passengers under those conditions. You'll need to find your own way home is not an acceptable treatment of U.S. passengers.

Minnesota SY passengers, write to your Congressman.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:45 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:

This is the kind of experience that invites government mandates. Apart from standard duty of care (meals, phone calls, and a hotel room) I can outline three options from Wash DC:

1. The carrier sends one of its planes there to depart within 24 hours

2. The carrier can charter an aircraft to depart within 24 hours

3. The carrier can book passengers over to other scheduled carriers, paying up to full published (J, Y) fares, with departures within 24 hours

Carriers that fail to do that pay a significant fine, on the order of 3x the cost of walk-up fares. Carriers that fail twice to do that within one year get their license to fly yanked. They will find adequate staff and aircraft to rebook passengers under those conditions.

Minnesota SY passengers, write to your Congressman.


Your principles are great, but these ideas wouldn't even get a low-level congressional committee hearing. Structurally, the US legislative process is so lop-sidely pro-business as to be laughable. Particularly this Congress, Administration and Judiciary.
 
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DDR
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:52 pm

Honest question, what if a stranded family does not have the money to purchase walk up fares on another carrier to get out of Mexico?
 
stlgph
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:54 pm

jumbojet wrote:
jordanh wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
I have no idea why you insist on being obtuse. I really don't.
I've read many of your posts in the past, and the lingering impression is: "wow, that dude really does not like Delta" . All fine, I don't really care for Delta either.


Perhaps one obtuse poster got booted from his cush union position at NW and went to SY... to make excuses for them...that would explain a lot...

...just speculating... ;)


And the arrogance of some posters is a clear example of why the combined DL/NW FA group chose not to be unionized.

Any updates on the Sun Country predicament? Has anyone from the media asked the CEO why a plane wasn't chartered?


Jude Bricker: "our policy is the right policy."
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
stlgph
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:55 pm

My favorite part...while all this is going down, SY's social media team was posting promos for Mexican vacations.


....why not?
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
jumbojet
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:59 pm

DDR wrote:
Honest question, what if a stranded family does not have the money to purchase walk up fares on another carrier to get out of Mexico?


Some stranger will eventually buy them one way tickets home. Seriously, what do you think will happen? I suppose they can stay there till Sun Country restarts service to that part of Mexico. I bet there are still some people that are stranded. Not everyone has the capabilities to buy XX number of tickets home on such short notice.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:02 pm

jumbojet wrote:
DDR wrote:
Honest question, what if a stranded family does not have the money to purchase walk up fares on another carrier to get out of Mexico?


Some stranger will eventually buy them one way tickets home. Seriously, what do you think will happen? I suppose they can stay there till Sun Country restarts service to that part of Mexico. I bet there are still some people that are stranded. Not everyone has the capabilities to buy XX number of tickets home on such short notice.


Hopefully, they were wise and purchased good travel insurance that will cover the expenses for them. Otherwise, there are buses from MZT to MSP...
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:12 pm

jumbojet wrote:
DDR wrote:
Honest question, what if a stranded family does not have the money to purchase walk up fares on another carrier to get out of Mexico?


Some stranger will eventually buy them one way tickets home. Seriously, what do you think will happen? I suppose they can stay there till Sun Country restarts service to that part of Mexico. I bet there are still some people that are stranded. Not everyone has the capabilities to buy XX number of tickets home on such short notice.


well, SY won't be starting MZT until fall, so that's a pickle.
and frankly, if a family doesn't have a credit card with enough juice to pay for a walk up fare, they're gonna have an immediate bigger problem in that they need to eat and sleep..... right away.

The reality is there isn't going to be anyone aside from one or two odd cases (not likely families) that **absolutely** cannot get home on their own dime; this is not to say that it might not be a serious financial hardship - lets say $3000+ for a family of four and one or more lost days of work.

As far as the odd case of a truly indignant person, if a US citizen comes to the attention of the Mexican authorities as functionally homeless, the US consulate/embassy will be contacted and they will intervene. Happens all the time on other continents. Its not a nice "free ride home".......
 
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enilria
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:14 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
enilria wrote:
They either should have put the people on other airlines and paid the bill like a normal airline, or run a flight in the middle of the night like Delta often does and pick them up at 4am thereby not significantly disrupting the day time schedule.



This is the kind of experience that invites government mandates. Apart from standard duty of care (meals, phone calls, and a hotel room) I can outline three options from Wash DC:

1. The carrier sends one of its planes there to depart within 24 hours

2. The carrier can charter an aircraft to depart within 24 hours

3. The carrier can book passengers over to other scheduled carriers, paying up to full published (J, Y) fares, with departures within 24 hours

Carriers that fail to do that pay a significant fine, on the order of 3x the cost of walk-up fares. Carriers that fail twice to do that within one year get their license to fly yanked. They will find adequate staff and aircraft to rebook passengers under those conditions. You'll need to find your own way home is not an acceptable treatment of U.S. passengers.

Minnesota SY passengers, write to your Congressman.

NYT just picked up the story. It will be in Washington, DC as a bill I suspect.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:17 pm

Delta could go in for the kill: "Wanna fly a top carrier and get home in time? Fly Delta! Wanna fly a 3rd rate carrier and get stranded? Fly Sun Country!"

I already see this banner flying over the check in counters at MSP...
 
Flighty
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:24 pm

SY is going to be rattled harder than they've ever experienced by this. A nationwide PR firestorm is not a pretty thing. I hope they survive it. Right now I put their odds at 60% and the CEO's odds at 25%.
 
jchaase
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:30 pm

How much would a charter have cost the company? $150k? Small price to pay for the trouble they’re having now. Night night, SY!
 
Aliqiout
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:33 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
jordanh wrote:
And you clearly don't understand everybody else's position. We are focused on what the end result means for passengers - and we believe most passengers would, when conditions make it necessary, prefer that the airline help them arrive home a couple of days late... rather than being told the airline is washing its hands of the job, and leaving it for those passengers to find some way back. That "difference" is not a fantasy.

Yes, you said that... so prove it. When is the last time a "legacy" airline totally abandoned their passengers, making no provision at all to get them home from a destination? Absolutely no options... even a delayed flight?

Please enlighten us...

No, you're clearly still focused on the manner/delivery of the stranding and not the end result for passengers. The end result for untold numbers of PAX every year is the same for those on this SY flight, and that's what really matters. They have to pay their way home with someone else because their airline won't/can't get them home in an acceptable manner. Until you acknowledge that, you're just spinning your wheels. I've proven this over and over. You can even read a news report from recent meltdowns. I'm not repeating it all again. It's up to you to accept reality.

If you can't see the difference between an airline that provides transport 3 days late because of a major weather event and an airline that provides nothing for their passengers stranded in a foreign country I am not sure it's worth having a discussion.

There would still be a story if it took 3 days for SY to get everyone back, but not a big enough storey to potentially permanently damage an airlines reputation.

We all wish airlines would do more to help passengers, but not doing as much as we would like is very different than not doing anything at all.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:50 pm

SY would have needed to ferry an empty aircraft to MZT regardless of the snow conditions at MSP. This will cost SY a lot more than they think. The pax would have needed to find hotel arrangements for one night, which is far less expensive than buying another airline ticket out of MZT.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
berari
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:11 pm

Credit card companies that offer travel insurance, would they cover passengers in such situations for re-accommodation as a result of disruptions such as this?
 
User avatar
SteveXC500
Posts: 405
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:19 pm

stlgph wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
jordanh wrote:

Perhaps one obtuse poster got booted from his cush union position at NW and went to SY... to make excuses for them...that would explain a lot...

...just speculating... ;)


And the arrogance of some posters is a clear example of why the combined DL/NW FA group chose not to be unionized.

Any updates on the Sun Country predicament? Has anyone from the media asked the CEO why a plane wasn't chartered?


Jude Bricker: "our policy is the right policy."



I believe the local media did reach out to SY for comment and they basically said it wasn't "cost effective" to move planes around to accommodate the passengers.
 
stlgph
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:30 pm

Flighty wrote:
SY is going to be rattled harder than they've ever experienced by this. A nationwide PR firestorm is not a pretty thing. I hope they survive it. Right now I put their odds at 60% and the CEO's odds at 25%.


$69 to Vegas and no one will care.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
nine4nine
Posts: 235
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:07 pm

I hope another airline steps in for some very positive PR and ferries in an aircraft and picks them up. What a hero they would be!!
717 727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 742 748 752 753 762 763 772 773 DC9 MD80/88/90 DC10 319 320 321 332 333 CS100 CRJ200 Q400 E175 E190 ERJ145 EMB120
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:13 pm

stlgph wrote:
Flighty wrote:
SY is going to be rattled harder than they've ever experienced by this. A nationwide PR firestorm is not a pretty thing. I hope they survive it. Right now I put their odds at 60% and the CEO's odds at 25%.


$69 to Vegas and no one will care.
Sounds great.
But what if you need a return trip?
I don't reckon $138 for an empty promise to bring me home again is good value at all.
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
Here I am stuck at 994; each time I'm tempted to post, I find myself wondering who will even read it / what is the point?
Or maybe I've just got nothing left to say.
 
klakzky123
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:46 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Flighty wrote:
SY is going to be rattled harder than they've ever experienced by this. A nationwide PR firestorm is not a pretty thing. I hope they survive it. Right now I put their odds at 60% and the CEO's odds at 25%.


$69 to Vegas and no one will care.
Sounds great.
But what if you need a return trip?
I don't reckon $138 for an empty promise to bring me home again is good value at all.


Well this is the same deal as Spirit and Frontier. The issue is that those airlines don't really trade on their brands. They compete almost solely on price. SY actually had very strong positive brand recognition in Minnesota. You could guarantee that the old SY would charter a flight back to Mexico (either on their own metal or someone else's). SY's brand is arguably its most important asset (at least in Minnesota). Outside of Minnesota, perhaps lower prices will be enough to keep planes filled. Mr. Bricker claimed he could deliver on a lower cost model while retaining Sun Country's image and service. Well this is definitely a terrible start.

It'll be interesting to see how they go forward from here.
 
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ual747den
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:01 pm

I can't believe that they did this and are allowed to get away with it! We all know that the last minute one-way walk-up fare is going to be WAY higher than what these people paid for their ticket when booking their vacation. I am someone that is hardly ever for government intervention on private business but now that we know something so heinous can be allowed by law we need to have a change to the law and make airline legally responsible for getting their passengers home. I understand that things happen that are out of the airlines' control but to completely strand people in a foreign country with no way home is completely unacceptable. If these people were inconvenienced for a couple days then SunCountry finally got them home I would feel completely different about it. Although that would suck and some people might have to sleep in the airport for a while at least they are getting home. These people are completely stranded and if they don't have the money to pay for the ticket on a different airline they are completely screwed! What are those people in that situation supposed to do? The only thing I can think of is call the embassy and try to get deported!!! I would hope in that situation there would be some nice employees at the other airlines willing to give them a buddy pass to at least get them back into the country and I would imagine that will happen.

The is terrible, I cannot say it enough. I really hope that someone is able to find some loophole and sue the hell out of them for this mess.
Frontier Airlines - Low Fares Done Right
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:07 pm

jumbojet wrote:
And the arrogance of some posters is a clear example of why the combined DL/NW FA group chose not to be unionized.

Any updates on the Sun Country predicament? Has anyone from the media asked the CEO why a plane wasn't chartered?


The only thing more humorous than a standard personal attack (which means they must not be able to debate with facts) is the attack being so erroneous!

Aliqiout wrote:
If you can't see the difference between an airline that provides transport 3 days late because of a major weather event and an airline that provides nothing for their passengers stranded in a foreign country I am not sure it's worth having a discussion.

There would still be a story if it took 3 days for SY to get everyone back, but not a big enough storey to potentially permanently damage an airlines reputation.

We all wish airlines would do more to help passengers, but not doing as much as we would like is very different than not doing anything at all.


And another. You're also misunderstanding and barking up the wrong tree. This isn't about the message. It's about the end result of having to take a refund and find alternate transportation after an airline failure. Untold numbers have this happen to them every year. Why are they not a story? Where's the outrage? I'll give you the answer. It's all in the delivery, even though the inconvenience for them is identical and for the same reasons.

I have told you the difference you're talking about. It goes like this:

Story 1: Sorry folks, but we can't get you out of here for 3 days. We know this isn't actually an option for most of you, but too bad, this is all we want to do for you. Either pay up and wait, or pay up for an alternate last-minute way to get home. A refund will be waiting for you when you get there. Thank you for your business.

Story 2: Sorry folks, we can't get out you of here. Here's your refund. Good luck finding as you pay up for alternate arrangements.

MIflyer12 wrote:
This is the kind of experience that invites government mandates. Apart from standard duty of care (meals, phone calls, and a hotel room) I can outline three options from Wash DC:

1. The carrier sends one of its planes there to depart within 24 hours

2. The carrier can charter an aircraft to depart within 24 hours

3. The carrier can book passengers over to other scheduled carriers, paying up to full published (J, Y) fares, with departures within 24 hours


I treat new legislation with high caution, but I'd be interested in something like this. Maybe tweak option 3 to where a refund of that last-minute amount is what's required. Usually seats on other carriers simply aren't available. Also there should be interline agreements. How about make that a requirement.
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2389
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:23 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
I treat new legislation with high caution, but I'd be interested in something like this. Maybe tweak option 3 to where a refund of that last-minute amount is what's required. Usually seats on other carriers simply aren't available. Also there should be interline agreements. How about make that a requirement.


A new requirement is actually quite simple. How the carrier in question gets it done shouldn't really matter. If a passenger buys a roundtrip ticket on airline 'A', than airline 'A" should be required to fulfill the obligation of the contract (the ticket) and get the passenger home in a 'reasonable' amount of time. If the contract is broken, than the airline gets fined the equivalent of standard fees to charter a plane.
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2389
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:31 pm

stlgph wrote:
ual763 wrote:
stlgph wrote:

No room in the fleet in the current schedule.

If they send a ferry flight then you disrupt say 800 people instead of 400.


Isn’t a good portion of Sun Country’s fleet meant for Charter ops? I find it hard to believe “all” of their planes are called for. Even if they don’t have a plane available the next day, make a trip in two days or something and put your customers in a hotel that night. Surely, they’ll have at least 1 backup plane? Especially on the charter side of the business.


I said it once, I'll say it again: no room in the current schedule with the available fleet.


as others have said, Then you charter a plane. Pretty simple.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:37 pm

jumbojet wrote:
stlgph wrote:
ual763 wrote:

Isn’t a good portion of Sun Country’s fleet meant for Charter ops? I find it hard to believe “all” of their planes are called for. Even if they don’t have a plane available the next day, make a trip in two days or something and put your customers in a hotel that night. Surely, they’ll have at least 1 backup plane? Especially on the charter side of the business.


I said it once, I'll say it again: no room in the current schedule with the available fleet.


as others have said, Then you charter a plane. Pretty simple.


Couldn’t they just have arranged with other carriers to get people home? There were no seats on AS through SEA, or AA through DFW, for example?
 
jetwet1
Posts: 2558
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:43 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Delta has such a PR opportunity.

Fly a plane down there and offer them $199 plus taxes to get home. The MSP media will love it and will be very cheap publicity! additionally they will win over some flyers to be loyal to delta forever.


100%, find a plane, find a crew, load it with food and drink, then fly down and rescue these people. DL is missing a golden opportunity.

stlgph wrote:

I said it once, I'll say it again: no room in the current schedule with the available fleet.


It doesn't matter, wet lease something, cancel one of the Laughlin flights (put them on a flight to Vegas and bus them down), when your ops are so MSP centric, this is just a massive fail.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:50 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
stlgph wrote:

I said it once, I'll say it again: no room in the current schedule with the available fleet.


as others have said, Then you charter a plane. Pretty simple.


Couldn’t they just have arranged with other carriers to get people home? There were no seats on AS through SEA, or AA through DFW, for example?


That’s the danger of not being in IATA. Ironically if the ticket had been booked on Volaris or Interjet, they’re IATA members and thus rebooking can be done. SY isn’t an IATA member. In the USA, the IATA members in passenger operations are the Big 3, Hawaiian, Alaska, and JetBlue only. I suspect that tour operators will deal with someone like Volaris going forward.
Last edited by aemoreira1981 on Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:55 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
Untold numbers have this happen to them every year. Why are they not a story? Where's the outrage? I'll give you the answer. It's all in the delivery, even though the inconvenience for them is identical and for the same reasons.



No its not - its not "all in the delivery". No matter how many times you repeat your dogmatic view. Yeah, we get it - you want to know why the malfeasance of the Big Boys isn't as loudly decried (which itself is debatable, but that's not the point here).

Sun Country didn't try. Not even a little bit. They did not dispatch what were to be ferry flights to SJD and MZT (ferry because these were the last flights of the season) at all. They simply decided early, before the runways had closed that they would just strand the pax, and provide refunds.

Then they did a very, very poor job of notifying the pax. They closed their (presumably outsourced) call center/customer service at the scheduled 6pm closing time. Which of course, was already overwhelmed and unreachable for several hours. Their last remaining contact point (social media), was of course, of no help.

They cut and run on their passengers in two secondary Mexican cities and packed it in for the weekend.

That's not what normal airlines do - no matter how many times you claim.
That's not what normal businesses of any kind, that have any shred of customer service ethos do - no matter how many times you claim.

Despise the big players all you want, but they will try to improve a situation, knowing full well they cannot satisfy or accomodate everyone. Sun Country did nothing.
Part of my outrage (and I reasonably think I speak for some segment of SY loyalists), isn't that the inaction is poor, its that they have a long documented history of simply being better than this. They've been thru ups and downs, different owners, bankruptcy, strike, over decades. Yet, thru all that - they've never sh*t on their customers like this; and frankly - neither have any significant carrier in the US that I can recall.

Stop telling us that other pax on other carriers sometimes have to find their own way home. Yeah, we know that. But that wasn't because their carrier made ZERO effort, as is the case here.

It ain't the message. It ain't the delivery. It's the lack of effort, and basic regard for the people who send you their money, and give you their trust.
 
Rbgso
Posts: 296
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:15 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:13 pm

Given how airlines arbitrarily assign segment costs to their ticket prices, I wouldn't be surprised if people get less than 50% refund.
 
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ODwyerPW
Posts: 1303
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:24 pm

Just seems like they should have found a way to get their north country passengers out of Mexico and back home..... what's harder.... book a charter or do damage control..... someone failed to do a proper cost/benefit analysis...
learning never stops.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 995
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:25 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
You're also misunderstanding and barking up the wrong tree. This isn't about the message. It's about the end result of having to take a refund and find alternate transportation after an airline failure. Untold numbers have this happen to them every year. Why are they not a story? Where's the outrage? I'll give you the answer. It's all in the delivery, even though the inconvenience for them is identical and for the same reasons.

Story 1: Sorry folks, but we can't get you out of here for 3 days. We know this isn't actually an option for most of you, but too bad, this is all we want to do for you. Either pay up and wait, or pay up for an alternate last-minute way to get home. A refund will be waiting for you when you get there. Thank you for your business.

Story 2: Sorry folks, we can't get out you of here. Here's your refund. Good luck finding as you pay up for alternate arrangements.

Is it really as black and white as that?

I'm sure I heard tell that a more caring airline would not only bring you home three days late, but they would pony up for some accommodation & meals in the meantime. Did I imagine that?
Some would also offer you the option of a simple refund, the same as SY except they didn't make it an option.
And in many cases, they would offer some sort of bribe, starting at $100 and reaching the dizzy heights of a free first class upgrade on your next flight with them.

But you've gone straight for "this is all we want to do for you. Either pay up & wait, or pay up for an alternate flight..."
Is this really the only solution provided in the majority of cases? If it is, then I've been very lucky myself.

So, name names; who are all these airlines that don't offer any sweeteners or attend basic human needs?
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
Here I am stuck at 994; each time I'm tempted to post, I find myself wondering who will even read it / what is the point?
Or maybe I've just got nothing left to say.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:31 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
.


Since you're clearly going to ignore reality of what every airline has done, then there's no point debating it with you. No wonder we rarely get meaningful discussions or action about airline practices. It's not about the sin in this case. It's about the attitude of the sinner. When the same end results aren't treated equally, nothing positive is accomplished, and it means this "outrage" is at best misplaced. Thank goodness our legal system doesn't work this way.
 
davescj
Posts: 1252
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:46 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:31 pm

What SY did is simply beyond the pale. It would be interesting if people started posting this to their own facebook account (or similar). The more shame that goes SY's way, the better. That and notify any tour operator/travel agent you know so that they can warn their own customers to buy insurance.

I've read quite the debate over what DL would do in a similar situation. FWIW, I've been on DL when weather stranded me domestically with 5 co-workers. I had status, they did not. We were given hotel vouchers and received a discount (which was at least something) and we were out the next day. SY....crickets to the customers. It is simply beyond the pale of corporate misbehavior.
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
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ER757
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:36 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
SY would have needed to ferry an empty aircraft to MZT regardless of the snow conditions at MSP. This will cost SY a lot more than they think. The pax would have needed to find hotel arrangements for one night, which is far less expensive than buying another airline ticket out of MZT.

I was thinking the same thing - since this was to be the last flight out for the season, there wasn't a cancelled flight from MSP to MZT - plane would have had to come from somewhere else. Why not fly it in, RON until the storm in MSP clears and send everyone home happy? I guess I must be missing something........
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:45 pm

Rbgso wrote:
Given how airlines arbitrarily assign segment costs to their ticket prices, I wouldn't be surprised if people get less than 50% refund.


Interestingly, SY clearly breaks down each segment cost when you book a R/T, and often the eastern Mexican destinations cost more on the return, which I believe is based on flight time (because of presumed winds). Since MZT and and SJD are fairly west, those segments might be equal or even reversed. But mostly, the difference is trivial in Y, more noticeable in J.

Having said that, I think a high % of pax (MZT more than SJD) likely purchased packages w/hotel, where the airfare cost isn't apparent to them. In particular, packages booked directly with SY, often include a "discount", which is obviously an incentive/subsidy from the resort being booked. SY could easily play shenanigans with what the refund amount should be with these customers. Never in a million years would I have previously questioned their integrity on something as simple as refund, but at this point, they have shown themselves to be despicable, so who knows.

It goes without saying (though I am saying it) that SY owes these customers (on every conceivable moral, if not legal level) far, far more than a simple 50% discount on the airfare portion of their spend. But as CEO guy says: "our policy is the right policy". Puke.
 
FlyHappy
Posts: 639
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:52 pm

ER757 wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
SY would have needed to ferry an empty aircraft to MZT regardless of the snow conditions at MSP. This will cost SY a lot more than they think. The pax would have needed to find hotel arrangements for one night, which is far less expensive than buying another airline ticket out of MZT.

I was thinking the same thing - since this was to be the last flight out for the season, there wasn't a cancelled flight from MSP to MZT - plane would have had to come from somewhere else. Why not fly it in, RON until the storm in MSP clears and send everyone home happy? I guess I must be missing something........


This is easy.
Because SY didn't want to take 2 aircraft (one for MZT, one for SJD), out of action for their scheduled duties Saturday night, Sunday, and possibly beyond. Also, they didn't want to pay for crew to overnight/overtime, and whatever airport fees are in play at those respective airports.

I can forgive the lack of slack on the aircraft (though there's no convincing me that canceling/delaying a domestic route isn't wiser, especially an easy to rebook station), but the lack of any add'l effort with other carriers, charters, or even a freakin' token handout/promise of a stipend for a night or two is unforgivable.
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 1776
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:54 pm

Handful of seats still left today on AS from MZT and SJD to LAX...get 'em while they last.

This is going to cost SY a heck of a lot more than flying a plane down to pick up the people they've stranded. It sounds like their new ULCC model has then on thin ice in MSP...any last hometown goodwill they were carrying is now gone.
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 2221
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:14 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
. Untold numbers have this happen to them every year. Why are they not a story? Where's the outrage?



So, name names; who are all these airlines that don't offer any sweeteners or attend basic human needs?

I'm curious too...if this happens as much as MSPNWA asserts, then it would be plastered across the news a lot more here. I've heard some one-off stories about FR doing this in Europe as their services often aren't daily on a lot of their routes...and we all see it when carriers go under. But I have yet to EVER see something like this happen stateside. So please, provide some references when making statements like this, MSPNWA.
 
Flydude1063
Posts: 7
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:37 pm

stlgph wrote:
Flighty wrote:
SY is going to be rattled harder than they've ever experienced by this. A nationwide PR firestorm is not a pretty thing. I hope they survive it. Right now I put their odds at 60% and the CEO's odds at 25%.


$69 to Vegas and no one will care.



Exactly. A week from now if the consumer sees a fare $10 cheaper than DL, they won't hesitate to book with SY. People are quick to forget if they save a few bucks. I just don't see this being the SY killer than so many are making it out to be.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 2084
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Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:53 pm

Was there any reason they could not have flown passengers to SLC or Denver?
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