There was a Cayman Airways flight at MSP today (delayed in typical KX fashion). Does anyone know what was up with that?

usflyer msp wrote:

There was a Cayman Airways flight at MSP today (delayed in typical KX fashion). Does anyone know what was up with that?

Most likely a charter.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/276991/icelandair-increases-minnapolis-service-in-s18/


Icelandair increases Minnapolis service in S18

Icelandair in recent schedule update is expanding service on Reykjavik Keflavik – Minneapolis/St. Paul route, during peak season. From 18MAY18 to 12SEP18, the airline will operate this route 11 weekly, instead of 7. Planned operation as follows.

FI657 KEF1645 – 1805MSP 75W x7
FI657 KEF1645 – 1805MSP 75T 7
FI659 KEF1655 – 1815MSP 75W x247

FI656 MSP1930 – 0630+1KEF 75W x7
FI656 MSP1930 – 0630+1KEF 75T 7
FI658 MSP1940 – 0640+1KEF 75W x247

Today will be the busiest day in the history of MSP and tomorrow is expected to be the second business. So far all reports is that everything is running smooth as the the Super Bowl attendees fly out:

http://www.startribune.com/smooth-start ... 472727323/

Another thread mentioned the 11AM MSP-PHL team charter. It was via American A332. A very rare visitor to MSP. There were many unusual operations out of there today. American put A321s MSP to PHL, a first, AFAIK. United put a 752 on both MSP BOS and PHL. Southwest appeared to bulk up services although I do not know how it compares to their normal.

2017 was a record year, 2018 should be too. Previous record was 2005:

http://www.startribune.com/2017-was-rec ... 473957213/

2017 was record-setting year for number of passengers at MSP
The 38 million passengers flew in or out of the airport's two terminals, beating the old mark set in 2005.

MSP 2017 figures are in.
Passengers 38,034,341 up 1.4%
Operations 416,213 up 0.7%
Cargo 229,440 metric tons up 11%
60% local passengers and 40% connecting passengers
159 nonstop destinations of which 58 are served by multiple airlines

Norwegian considering MSP.
https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/news/phil ... 20Bulletin

With a A321? To LGW? That seems.... Problematic....

FlyHappy wrote:

With a A321? To LGW? That seems.... Problematic....

Curious, how??

SteveXC500 wrote:

FlyHappy wrote:

With a A321? To LGW? That seems.... Problematic....

Curious, how??

MSP to LGW is over 4000 miles. This is barely within the range of an A321neoLR, but a high-density version like DY would most likely fly would struggle with the route....

usflyer msp wrote:

SteveXC500 wrote:

FlyHappy wrote:

With a A321? To LGW? That seems.... Problematic....

Curious, how??

MSP to LGW is over 4000 miles. This is barely within the range of an A321neoLR, but a high-density version like DY would most likely fly would struggle with the route....

and that's eastbound; west, into the wind, DL11 (LHR-MSP) has been taking 9:15+ lately. That's a lot of flight time, and LGW is further than LHR
I just can't see an LCC choosing MSP over DTW, and certainly not PHL. Why fly at the ragged edge when there are larger and closer markets?

As capable as the 321LR is, midwest/TATL is still widebody territory.

Thanks. I just find it odd Norwegian would consider the route if it was nearly impossible to fly it with their A321LR.

SteveXC500 wrote:

Thanks. I just find it odd Norwegian would consider the route if it was nearly impossible to fly it with their A321LR.

To be fair, it often seems like Norwegian doesn't really know what they're doing.

MSP-LGW is 3,500 nautical miles. The A321LR has a range of 4,000 nautical miles, so its doable but pushing it going west.

af773atmsp wrote:

MSP-LGW is 3,500 nautical miles. The A321LR has a range of 4,000 nautical miles, so its doable but pushing it going west.

True but add 30 extra passengers and TATL headwinds and this flight will be visiting Gander regularly westbound...

You do realize that DY is flying 737-800 and 787.!! While WizzAir is flying A321. ????

big staff reduction at MSP from Sun Country

http://www.startribune.com/sun-country- ... 474606963/

NeBaNi wrote:

I would love for jetBlue to look into MSP. After growing used to flying them on the east coast, I really missed their service when I moved to MSP.

You must not have heard or read the news that jetBlue will begin service from MSP to Boston, using T2, starting May 3, 2018. Been waiting a long time for this to happen!

Just saw the story on job cuts at SY. I hope this doesn't hurt customer services at all. The company started to hire their own employees because of contractor issues in Passenger Service and Grooming.

sunking737 wrote:

You do realize that DY is flying 737-800 and 787.!! While WizzAir is flying A321. ????

DY is getting the A321LR in 2019

ck8msp wrote:

big staff reduction at MSP from Sun Country

http://www.startribune.com/sun-country- ... 474606963/

Tempting to criticize SY, but this is nothing more than the worldwide, cross industry move to outsource for lower labor costs. Still, sucks for employees.
But somehow, I missed the sale of SY from the Davis family to the equity firm. Now the Jude Bricker hire makes sense.

MSPSXMFLIER wrote:

NeBaNi wrote:

I would love for jetBlue to look into MSP. After growing used to flying them on the east coast, I really missed their service when I moved to MSP.

You must not have heard or read the news that jetBlue will begin service from MSP to Boston, using T2, starting May 3, 2018. Been waiting a long time for this to happen!

Lol yeah, I've heard. I wrote that post over 2 years ago, well before jetBlue announced intentions to serve MSP.

With C-series deliveries imminent, is there a possibility that MSP will be their main base replacing some of the older regional jets?

Lightningzap- No! No Cseries base for MSP. Firat base will be NYC, then LAX. MSP may get a 717 base when the Cseries is fully up and running in LAX.

Wingnut

MSP IIRC is Closed due to WX. Its ugly here folks, damn ugly.

sunking737 wrote:

MSP IIRC is Closed due to WX. Its ugly here folks, damn ugly.

Unless you flew you Mazatlan on Sun Country. It's even uglier.

Last outbound on 4/14 looks to have been Delta 589 to Seattle on a 757-200 at 13:17 local. It is now 18:07 local. Lots of longhaul diversions. The first DL AMS-MSP went to Detroit, the second to Cincinnati, and the third to Kennedy. Haneda went to Detroit, Paris went to Detroit, and Heathrow went to Cincinnati. I live near downtown Minneapolis and was just outside, and I would say there is between 8 and 10 inches already. Biggest April blizzard since 1983.

sunking737 wrote:

MSP IIRC is Closed due to WX. Its ugly here folks, damn ugly.

Pretty nice up here in DLH for a change. Windy as heck, but missing the snow so far

stlgph wrote:

sunking737 wrote:

MSP IIRC is Closed due to WX. Its ugly here folks, damn ugly.

Unless you flew you Mazatlan on Sun Country. It's even uglier.

hey! I was on SY MSP-MZT barely 4 months ago, and it was wonderful (granted, J/F) - whats the beef ?

SY cancelled their last flight of the season into MZT, told those on the return into MSP to find their own way home

Today was a great example of why DTW & MSP are so important for each other in DL’s Network. I applaud the DTW team for taking care of MSP’s widebody and domestic flights while continuing to run their own operations, the WB gates at DTW were slammed (on my way to MCO). MSP has provided the same service to DTW when they were in need a few years ago during a freak November snowstorm.

Rumors that RWY 4 has opened up. Sun Country had a honor flight land in DLH about a hour ago, and they just received clearance to MSP and are being de-iced. Which is good as a UA 319 landed at the same time and cant access an open gate due to the cluster up here. Saw a picture of the ramp; complete mess.

Also, Delta just got DL10 to LHR out, so it looks like MSP is somewhat operating.

tys777 wrote:

Rumors that RWY 4 has opened up. Sun Country had a honor flight land in DLH about a hour ago, and they just received clearance to MSP and are being de-iced. Which is good as a UA 319 landed at the same time and cant access an open gate due to the cluster up here. Saw a picture of the ramp; complete mess.

Also, Delta just got DL10 to LHR out, so it looks like MSP is somewhat operating.

Yes, runway 4 operations were happening on an off yesterday afternoon and this morning due to very gusty north winds. I left MSP yesterday afternoon after arriving from DAY at about 14:50 local, and they were operating on 4 for inbounds and outbounds, and it was a hot mess. I saw 757 go around when a 717 didn't get off the ground in time. They were stacked up on approach with a long line on the ground. Not a good airport for a 1-runway operation.

And yes, DL10 did leave, but MSP is not "somewhat operating". DL 10 was the only departure today after the last Delta outbound to Seattle at 1:17pm this afternoon. They rolled at 23:17 local, and during that window the snow was less intense than it had been earlier. My guess is they need that 767 in London, and since there was a window to operate, they did it. But no other flights have left in the last 12 hours.

TW870 wrote:

tys777 wrote:

Rumors that RWY 4 has opened up. Sun Country had a honor flight land in DLH about a hour ago, and they just received clearance to MSP and are being de-iced. Which is good as a UA 319 landed at the same time and cant access an open gate due to the cluster up here. Saw a picture of the ramp; complete mess.

Also, Delta just got DL10 to LHR out, so it looks like MSP is somewhat operating.

Yes, runway 4 operations were happening on an off yesterday afternoon and this morning due to very gusty north winds. I left MSP yesterday afternoon after arriving from DAY at about 14:50 local, and they were operating on 4 for inbounds and outbounds, and it was a hot mess. I saw 757 go around when a 717 didn't get off the ground in time. They were stacked up on approach with a long line on the ground. Not a good airport for a 1-runway operation.

And yes, DL10 did leave, but MSP is not "somewhat operating". DL 10 was the only departure today after the last Delta outbound to Seattle at 1:17pm this afternoon. They rolled at 23:17 local, and during that window the snow was less intense than it had been earlier. My guess is they need that 767 in London, and since there was a window to operate, they did it. But no other flights have left in the last 12 hours.

A SY 737 has landed after DL10 left and another one is due shortly after running Laughlin charters.

My comment on 4 being open was for this evening. I'm well aware of the days ops/challanges. A departure and a couple of arrivals counts as somewhat operational again in my book. Especially after 10 hours closed.

Does it stay that way long enough for the airport to be functioning in the am? We will see. A lot of overnight diverts at outstations.

Link to previous thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1339829

stlgph wrote:

SY cancelled their last flight of the season into MZT, told those on the return into MSP to find their own way home

This company is finding new an amazing ways to drive away customers.

Elementalism wrote:

stlgph wrote:

SY cancelled their last flight of the season into MZT, told those on the return into MSP to find their own way home

This company is finding new an amazing ways to drive away customers.

Is this event factual? Anybody have a reference? I have some small skepticism that SY would literally strand US tourists in Mexico.
But the way Elementalism worded things, its as if SY stranded people in MSP ?

Minneapolis/St Paul Intl (KMSP) is currently experiencing:

departure delays an average of 38 minutes
inbound flights delayed at their origin an average of 4 hours 53 minutes due to snow and ice
arrival delays for airborne aircraft an average of 54 minutes

This is as of 1030 CDT local 4/15/18

FlyHappy wrote:

Elementalism wrote:

stlgph wrote:

SY cancelled their last flight of the season into MZT, told those on the return into MSP to find their own way home

This company is finding new an amazing ways to drive away customers.

Is this event factual? Anybody have a reference? I have some small skepticism that SY would literally strand US tourists in Mexico.
But the way Elementalism worded things, its as if SY stranded people in MSP ?

No, SY really did just abandon the passengers in MZT. They were just like too bad, so sad, we are done. Welcome to the new Sun Country --
https://www.facebook.com/dklyberg/posts/10214597116354348
https://www.facebook.com/tim.ackerson.9/posts/10157305781209838

FlyHappy wrote:

Elementalism wrote:

stlgph wrote:

SY cancelled their last flight of the season into MZT, told those on the return into MSP to find their own way home

This company is finding new an amazing ways to drive away customers.

Is this event factual? Anybody have a reference? I have some small skepticism that SY would literally strand US tourists in Mexico.
But the way Elementalism worded things, its as if SY stranded people in MSP ?

Yes, it's factual. I don't come on here just to slap up complete b.s.

sunking737 wrote:

Minneapolis/St Paul Intl (KMSP) is currently experiencing:

departure delays an average of 38 minutes
inbound flights delayed at their origin an average of 4 hours 53 minutes due to snow and ice
arrival delays for airborne aircraft an average of 54 minutes

This is as of 1030 CDT local 4/15/18

I saw this. Right now it looks like they are departing on 4 and arriving on 35, which is a highly unusual configuration. Winds don't appear to be that strong right now (I am in south minneapolis), and the only reason I can think of to use this configuration would be snow removal or very, very strong north winds. Visibility is very good - so I am not sure why flightaware is showing that long delay. Anyone know why they are using this configuration?

usflyer msp wrote:

FlyHappy wrote:

Elementalism wrote:

This company is finding new an amazing ways to drive away customers.

Is this event factual? Anybody have a reference? I have some small skepticism that SY would literally strand US tourists in Mexico.
But the way Elementalism worded things, its as if SY stranded people in MSP ?

No, SY really did just abandon the passengers in MZT. They were just like too bad, so sad, we are done. Welcome to the new Sun Country --
https://www.facebook.com/dklyberg/posts/10214597116354348
https://www.facebook.com/tim.ackerson.9/posts/10157305781209838

I see this was just yesterday, Saturday 4/14. This is very disappointing to me personally.

As SY points to the weather event in MSP, the bothersome part is that the empty aircraft clearly could have left MSP (runways not closed til later) or any other city the plane would have originated from (Dallas and Florida are possibilities), its that it could not have landed at MSP. So SY canceled based on the unwillingness to put the pax on the ground closer to home (Chicago, what have you).

My question - does SY avoid some kind of actual legal or fiscal obligation by not operating the flight at all, versus flying out of MZT and diverting somewhere in an attempt to wait out MSP weather? Is this purely a bottom dollar decision that a diversion (likely to an airport with no replacement crew) would cause pilot time-out and they didn't want to incur the cost of dead-heading a crew and providing passenger compensation?

I actually can see the cold calculation that I think SY took, bigger PR and $ hit to fly the pax and leave overnight in a different US city than to cancel outright, refund and leave in Mexico. My only question is would it be legal for SY to leave pax in Dallas (even having refunded the fare) but NOT provide a return to MSP ?

I'm not defending what they did, but I think I get it.
This sucks all around.

One wonders if old ownership would have acted in the same way. Hard to imagine.

The SY fleet doesn't have any spares. Instead of inconveniencing 800 people, they instead will leave it at the 400 or whatever

Tough call there. We all know that if a flight cancels due to weather, you are responsible to pay for your hotel. The ticket you buy does not promise to get you there that day. But, the ticket does pretty much promise to get you there. Just refunding people’s money in case of a weather cancellation (as I assume SY did) is not good enough IMO although it is probably legal.

TW870 wrote:

sunking737 wrote:

Minneapolis/St Paul Intl (KMSP) is currently experiencing:

departure delays an average of 38 minutes
inbound flights delayed at their origin an average of 4 hours 53 minutes due to snow and ice
arrival delays for airborne aircraft an average of 54 minutes

This is as of 1030 CDT local 4/15/18

I saw this. Right now it looks like they are departing on 4 and arriving on 35, which is a highly unusual configuration. Winds don't appear to be that strong right now (I am in south minneapolis), and the only reason I can think of to use this configuration would be snow removal or very, very strong north winds. Visibility is very good - so I am not sure why flightaware is showing that long delay. Anyone know why they are using this configuration?

My guess is due to the winds from last night forcing 4 to be used for takeoffs 30L and 30R need to be plowed. And we still have winds coming out of the North. Though not anywhere the force like yesterday. Landing on 35 allows them to use 4 100% for takeoff and speed up operations.

In case you didn't know SY is down 4 737 right now. 2 737-800 belonging to Transavia have returned to AMS, and 2 737-700 are in IND for heavy MX. They also are doing DOD charters which have been scheduled for several months ahead of time. SY still has 3 more 337-800 of Transavia to return soon.

stlgph wrote:

The SY fleet doesn't have any spares. Instead of inconveniencing 800 people, they instead will leave it at the 400 or whatever

yeah, I get the nature of their small, and seasonal fleet.

But I think we can both agree that "inconveniencing" a plane full of people at LAX, SEA, DFW is one thing, and literally leaving a plane load of MSP origin vacationers (the "home town", right?) in a secondary location in a foreign country is quite another. Lets not forget that a high % of those passengers would have been "vacation package" customers who booked flight, hotel, ground transfer directly from SY. While this does not change any legalities, I think SY shoulders a higher moral obligation to fulfill the promise of the "package".

At a bare minimum, SY should have made an effort to assist pax with finding an alternate path home.
I'm gonna guess that this return flight was lightly loaded, and that played into their decision.

Regardless - its a fail for SY, and rings familiar with the other lowly regarded LCC's that they apparently are emulating.

FlyHappy wrote:

stlgph wrote:

The SY fleet doesn't have any spares. Instead of inconveniencing 800 people, they instead will leave it at the 400 or whatever

yeah, I get the nature of their small, and seasonal fleet.

But I think we can both agree that "inconveniencing" a plane full of people at LAX, SEA, DFW is one thing, and literally leaving a plane load of MSP origin vacationers (the "home town", right?) in a secondary location in a foreign country is quite another. Lets not forget that a high % of those passengers would have been "vacation package" customers who booked flight, hotel, ground transfer directly from SY. While this does not change any legalities, I think SY shoulders a higher moral obligation to fulfill the promise of the "package".

At a bare minimum, SY should have made an effort to assist pax with finding an alternate path home.
I'm gonna guess that this return flight was lightly loaded, and that played into their decision.

Regardless - its a fail for SY, and rings familiar with the other lowly regarded LCC's that they apparently are emulating.

SY should have tried to contract with Interjet for a subservice to get their MZT and SJD pax home tonight or tomorrow. Interjet has plenty of planes sitting around. Everything to MSP on every carrier is pretty much full until Tuesday so most of the passengers are going to be stuck in MZT/SJD for a minimum of 3 days on top of the costs of the new ticket. Once the media gets a hold of this, SY is going to get ripped apart.

FlyHappy wrote:

stlgph wrote:

The SY fleet doesn't have any spares. Instead of inconveniencing 800 people, they instead will leave it at the 400 or whatever

yeah, I get the nature of their small, and seasonal fleet.

But I think we can both agree that "inconveniencing" a plane full of people at LAX, SEA, DFW is one thing, and literally leaving a plane load of MSP origin vacationers (the "home town", right?) in a secondary location in a foreign country is quite another. Lets not forget that a high % of those passengers would have been "vacation package" customers who booked flight, hotel, ground transfer directly from SY. While this does not change any legalities, I think SY shoulders a higher moral obligation to fulfill the promise of the "package".

At a bare minimum, SY should have made an effort to assist pax with finding an alternate path home.
I'm gonna guess that this return flight was lightly loaded, and that played into their decision.

Regardless - its a fail for SY, and rings familiar with the other lowly regarded LCC's that they apparently are emulating.

Another big difference is that DL has hubs at LAX and SEA, and DL also has several daily nonstops to MSP from SEA and LAX. In addition, AS also has multiple daily nonstops to MSP from SEA, and AA also has several daily nonstops to MSP from DFW. There are more options for getting passengers back to MSP from LAX, SEA, and DFW than there are from secondary locations in foreign countries, even though passengers who are stranded at LAX, SEA, or DFW might have to purchase a ticket on another airline to get back to MSP.