CFRPwingALbody
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:59 am

WPvsMW wrote:
I respect your opinion, but EK is the ONLY airline that has succeeded in 100+ A380s ... and "high volume lower yields" is essentially the core LCC strategy (but not with whalejets). Therefore, EK's business model has a secret sauce no other A380 or "high volume lower yield" operator has, which secret sauce is (i) DXB as a (ii) scissor hub for (iii) whalejets. "High volume lower yields" doesn't work for a whalejet fleet without (i) and (ii). Even with (i), (ii), and (iii), the business model can fail... just ask QR and EY.


Can you list all airlines with 100+ widebodies of one type in their fleet. Please also list above 75, it's a very short list.
What amazes me is, that no airline has introduced the A380 on the LHR-JFK (and return) route.
I count daily: 8xBA, 6xVS, 4xAA & 2xDL = 20 daily flights, all are A330, A340, 777, 787 or 747. If BA introduces 2x daily A380 and reduce their schedule to 6x daily. They win two slots for other destinations, thus increase their passenger flow.
I think there are a small number of other examples like this.
 
brindabella
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:02 am

TheRedBaron wrote:
The A380 is the equivalent of penis envy for Boeing Lovers. It will be produced till 2028-29, and if BA and others order a few dozen more it will keep A net a very interesting place to be in the next 2 decades...

TRB


A very measured and helpful contribution, doing nothing but hurling insults with no attempt at any kind of a rational contribution in any way.
:sarcastic:

:redflag:

Another on my "ignore" list.

Makes 2.
Billy
 
brindabella
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:11 am

WPvsMW wrote:
zeke wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
EK's success (albeit flat recently) with the A380 is entirely dependent on DXB's location and EK's scissor-hub strategy. If you don't have all three factors in your business model (A380, DXB, and scissor-hub strategy), you have no need for 100+ A380s, or any new A380s. That's why only STC wants more A380s and no other CEO is interested. EK is "the ME bubble that worked" as a result of its first-to-market (in that business model) advantage, leaving two nearby, but later, bubbles rapidly contracting despite implementing the same business model.


I don’t agree, EKs business model in my view is high volume lower yields. The airline simply could not work with a fleet of mid size twins only. The large twins and quads gets them high volumes. With high volumes they can reduce their overheads which makes them super competitive in the marketplace.


I respect your opinion, but EK is the ONLY airline that has succeeded in 100+ A380s ... and "high volume lower yields" is essentially the core LCC strategy (but not with whalejets). Therefore, EK's business model has a secret sauce no other A380 or "high volume lower yield" operator has, which secret sauce is (i) DXB as a (ii) scissor hub for (iii) whalejets. "High volume lower yields" doesn't work for a whalejet fleet without (i) and (ii). Even with (i), (ii), and (iii), the business model can fail... just ask QR and EY.


Interesting. (I Googled "scissor hubs". Long pause. Thought I might have crashed Google - a world first! But no, eventually came up with the goods).

So - to take it further - some think TK might challenge.
I have no idea, but given your specification of (i), (ii) and (iii) ...

What say you to that?

:?:

cheers
Billy
 
JustSomeDood
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:11 am

CFRPwingALbody wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
I respect your opinion, but EK is the ONLY airline that has succeeded in 100+ A380s ... and "high volume lower yields" is essentially the core LCC strategy (but not with whalejets). Therefore, EK's business model has a secret sauce no other A380 or "high volume lower yield" operator has, which secret sauce is (i) DXB as a (ii) scissor hub for (iii) whalejets. "High volume lower yields" doesn't work for a whalejet fleet without (i) and (ii). Even with (i), (ii), and (iii), the business model can fail... just ask QR and EY.


Can you list all airlines with 100+ widebodies of one type in their fleet. Please also list above 75, it's a very short list.
What amazes me is, that no airline has introduced the A380 on the LHR-JFK (and return) route.
I count daily: 8xBA, 6xVS, 4xAA & 2xDL = 20 daily flights, all are A330, A340, 777, 787 or 747. If BA introduces 2x daily A380 and reduce their schedule to 6x daily. They win two slots for other destinations, thus increase their passenger flow.
I think there are a small number of other examples like this.


... Sabotaging their premium customer business (this is LHR-JFK, business demand is king) and putting a boatload more Y capacity on the route when TATL yields are already in the dumpster? That doesn't
sound very wise to me. If anything, I expect more frequency from high-premium smaller aircraft on this route from BA as the 744s are retired. BA would be able to free up LHR slots elsewhere simply by moving a good amount more narrowbody flying to LGW.
 
mcogator
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:12 am

chiawei wrote:
Fiend wrote:
itisi wrote:
I don't care what anyone says. The A380 is the best plane I've flown on, space, smooth and comfortable, I'm talking about economy... where it matters and where most of us fly.


I agree, as a passenger the A380 is so much nicer to fly in compared to other aircraft....


Yeah right- you still get the same economy seat, you still get the same business class seat.

Unless you are flying first- A380 is not much nicer to fly compare to other.

I'm pretty sure you're incorrect. They are actually different seats in economy on the A388 vs their T7.
“Traveling – it leaves you speechless, then turns you into a storyteller.” – Ibn Battuta
 
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keesje
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:30 am

The facts he’s by far the biggest 77W/777X customer too, makes it a bit harder harder to dismiss him :fluffy:

I’ve selected EK a few times recently because I knew my home carrier flies the 787/777 offering each passenger 2+ inch less width, by adding the extra 20 inch sea in each row. Dummies believe it only differs .7 inch per seat :rotfl:
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:46 am

Re: A380s LHR/JFK. Won't happen for two reasons:. As stated above, business pax; and FREQUENCY (which is directly related to business pax).

Re: TK. Different business model than EK/DXB/A380. IST has multiples more O&D than DXB. TK could very well use whalejets, but they don't need to assume that risk. IST is geographically a better scissor hub than the Middle East for traffic between Europe and Asia / Australasia. TK's growth after the new IST is completed will be at EK's detriment.

Re: Operators with more than 75 widebodies. Irrelevant to my point, which is the whalejet, not widebodies in general.
 
emiratesdriver
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:57 am

keesje wrote:
The facts he’s by far the biggest 77W/777X customer too, makes it a bit harder harder to dismiss him :fluffy:

I’ve selected EK a few times recently because I knew my home carrier flies the 787/777 offering each passenger 2+ inch less width, by adding the extra 20 inch sea in each row. Dummies believe it only differs .7 inch per seat :rotfl:


I’d say that by virtue of this...it shows that the 380 has a niche, and its advantages are based on circumstances.
IF you can fill it, it’s a money maker up to 10hrs or so....beyond that it in EK service it merely covers costs, as been confirmed numerous times to me, and it’s why there are more 777s than 380s in service at EK and across the planet.
 
brindabella
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:58 am

WPvsMW wrote:
Re: TK. Different business model than EK/DXB/A380. IST has multiples more O&D than DXB. TK could very well use whalejets, but they don't need to assume that risk. IST is geographically a better scissor hub than the Middle East for traffic between Europe and Asia / Australasia. TK's growth after the new IST is completed will be at EK's detriment.



Got that.

Will be watching.

As should the myriad (Look it up!) of EK/380 fans here.

(TINA! TINA!)
(Look it up!)
:D

cheers
Billy
 
JamesCousins
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:21 pm

So many people here seem to imply that Sir Tim is 'BS'ing to the press, and I simply don't feel that to be true. Whilst subsidies among the ME3 are definitely something that should not be disregarded, Emirates is easily the most profitable of all the ME carriers. The reason the airline will continue to order 380s, and exercise options is because of the inherent nature of their business model. With so much connecting traffic the more feed they can get, the more demand increases for onward travel, hence routes operated by 777s are up gauged slowly to the 380, which in its own right increases demand. Flying out of my local airport, BHX, I can choose from endless hub-oriented carriers, but I'd choose EK any-day, because of the A380.

If orchestrated correctly, the introduction of the 787-10 on lower demand routes will only drive orders for more 380s, the feed increases, routes get up-gauged.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:36 pm

I think Timmy left out a lot of fine print.

A380 is profitable only on 6hr:30m to 8hr missions and PLF is higher than BELF. To everywhere else you will be burning cash. That limits A380 pretty much to DXB-Europe routes

A380 is the worst for the economy class passengers, chaotic boarding, crowded fish bowl with not enough meal choices, late baggage arrival.

14 people getting 5-minute showers and 500+ imagining about showers. EK cancelled Jennifer Aniston ad campaign after one ad.

Aren't most EK A380s are low MTOW versions? Why is Timmy not getting all with max MTOW?
 
Bricktop
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:49 pm

I would love to fly on an A380. As a resident of NY Metro, if I did get on one it would be AF to CDG, or LH or SQ to FRA, but EWR is more convenient for me so no joy. I have no desire to go to DXB itself (or DOH/AUH for that matter) and if I was going to the Far East I would go TPAC anyway. Probably on a CX A350.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:52 pm

JamesCousins wrote:
So many people here seem to imply that Sir Tim is 'BS'ing to the press, .


Is there any medical explanation like early onset of D.
 
JamesCousins
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:53 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
JamesCousins wrote:
So many people here seem to imply that Sir Tim is 'BS'ing to the press, .


Is there any medical explanation like early onset of D.


I'm not saying that what is said to the press, and reality is often waves apart, however Emirates would not order A380s time and time again, excercising options time and time again if it didn't make good business sense. The plane clearly works incredibly well for EK..
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OA940
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:01 pm

He's right. Because the A350 and 787 are doing much worse than the A380. Yeah lets get #twinjetsareover trending people.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
JustSomeDood
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:04 pm

JamesCousins wrote:
If orchestrated correctly, the introduction of the 787-10 on lower demand routes will only drive orders for more 380s, the feed increases, routes get up-gauged.


Given that the 78J would be the smallest aircraft in EK's fleet (along with the 77L), the feed would increase with the 787-10 only if either:
-EK expands to new routes with the 787-10
-EK replaces routes from FlyDubai with the 787-10

I suspect that while the above two may very well happen to some extent, a good amount of the 78X utilization is going to be to replace 77Ws on routes to manage yields and reduce breakeven loads...
 
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:16 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
A380 is the worst for the economy class passengers, chaotic boarding, crowded fish bowl with not enough meal choices, late baggage arrival.


Yiha, and even then a huge majority of passengers beg to disagree. Y pax in the A380 (and EK between them) has been claimed by the market as a whole like the best Y experience available. And for several reasons.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:16 pm

Does Airfrance still use the A380 on the Paris - New York route ?
 
Bricktop
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:30 pm

Mortyman wrote:
Does Airfrance still use the A380 on the Paris - New York route ?

As of now, 2x daily - AF6 and AF10 are A388's.
 
tealnz
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:38 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
A380 is profitable only on 6hr:30m to 8hr missions and PLF is higher than BELF. To everywhere else you will be burning cash. That limits A380 pretty much to DXB-Europe routes

Curious. So they're simply burning cash ferrying Aussies and kiwis to Dubai? Why would they continue to do that? And why shift to non-stop Auckland-Dubai on the 380?
 
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par13del
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:48 pm

Bricktop wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
Does Airfrance still use the A380 on the Paris - New York route ?

As of now, 2x daily - AF6 and AF10 are A388's.

Hmmm....so AF is able to run the A380 to JFK without trashing its yields but BA cannot even try one daily for a busy period, summer period, winter period, holiday period,,,, I am shocked that thousands of BA clients who value frequency over "the best experience" will abandon them if they were to be so brave.
In my opinion, there has to be something more than frequency to BA not trying an A380 on the JFK route, inquiring minds would like to know.
 
Bricktop
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:52 pm

par13del wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
Does Airfrance still use the A380 on the Paris - New York route ?

As of now, 2x daily - AF6 and AF10 are A388's.

Hmmm....so AF is able to run the A380 to JFK without trashing its yields but BA cannot even try one daily for a busy period, summer period, winter period, holiday period,,,, I am shocked that thousands of BA clients who value frequency over "the best experience" will abandon them if they were to be so brave.
In my opinion, there has to be something more than frequency to BA not trying an A380 on the JFK route, inquiring minds would like to know.

Yeah, that got me thinking too. AF does 4 (AF6/8/10 and 22) daily, but apart from that there's only 1 daily on Delta, American , Norwegian and XL. JFK/LHR has way more flights than that.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:00 pm

par13del wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
Does Airfrance still use the A380 on the Paris - New York route ?

As of now, 2x daily - AF6 and AF10 are A388's.

Hmmm....so AF is able to run the A380 to JFK without trashing its yields but BA cannot even try one daily for a busy period, summer period, winter period, holiday period,,,, I am shocked that thousands of BA clients who value frequency over "the best experience" will abandon them if they were to be so brave.
In my opinion, there has to be something more than frequency to BA not trying an A380 on the JFK route, inquiring minds would like to know.


This is what I am curious about too. One would think that a major European airline that has the A380 in it's fleet would put it on this route. It works both for business and leasure travellers. I have never understood BA's policy regarding this.
 
ikramerica
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:13 pm

The reason the A380 works for them is they have an appreciably larger fleet of twins to help even out the schedules and up and down gage routes.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:15 pm

tealnz wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
A380 is profitable only on 6hr:30m to 8hr missions and PLF is higher than BELF. To everywhere else you will be burning cash. That limits A380 pretty much to DXB-Europe routes

Curious. So they're simply burning cash ferrying Aussies and kiwis to Dubai? Why would they continue to do that? And why shift to non-stop Auckland-Dubai on the 380?


It is now a who has the bigger plane issue. QF slowly slipping away and QR ramping up out of spite.

Such statements by STC puts EK's network/revenue planners in a pickle because they cannot successfully operate A380 and 777 to the same station. Because of the publicity by STC, all passengers want to book on A380 making 777 a less preferred choice.

EK A319 Executive has 14 F suites and showers. Isn't that a better option for premium passengers than A380.
 
PlaneBoo
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:15 pm

Mortyman wrote:
par13del wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
As of now, 2x daily - AF6 and AF10 are A388's.

Hmmm....so AF is able to run the A380 to JFK without trashing its yields but BA cannot even try one daily for a busy period, summer period, winter period, holiday period,,,, I am shocked that thousands of BA clients who value frequency over "the best experience" will abandon them if they were to be so brave.
In my opinion, there has to be something more than frequency to BA not trying an A380 on the JFK route, inquiring minds would like to know.


This is what I am curious about too. One would think that a major European airline that has the A380 in it's fleet would put it on this route. It works both for business and leasure travellers. I have never understood BA's policy regarding this.


The BA terminal at JFK (terminal 7) is not A380 capable.
 
caljn
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:25 pm

Indeed, and the world's largest Airbus operator is: American Airlines! Go figure...

Only as a result of the US merger.
 
JustSomeDood
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:27 pm

Mortyman wrote:
par13del wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
As of now, 2x daily - AF6 and AF10 are A388's.

Hmmm....so AF is able to run the A380 to JFK without trashing its yields but BA cannot even try one daily for a busy period, summer period, winter period, holiday period,,,, I am shocked that thousands of BA clients who value frequency over "the best experience" will abandon them if they were to be so brave.
In my opinion, there has to be something more than frequency to BA not trying an A380 on the JFK route, inquiring minds would like to know.


This is what I am curious about too. One would think that a major European airline that has the A380 in it's fleet would put it on this route. It works both for business and leisure travellers. I have never understood BA's policy regarding this.


Simple, compared to what BA primarily brings on their LHR-JFK route (Super-hi-J 747s), with 14F/86J/30W/145Y, BA's A380, with 14F/97J/55W/303Y, really doesn't gain that much more J, but has 160 more Y seats per flight on a route that has likely the highest ratio of premium to leisure demand anywhere in the world. The last thing TATL in Y needs is more capacity with the rise of Norweigian and new direct routings sprouting up everywhere. Besides, putting the older 747s on these short routings reduces their fuel burn disadvantage as part of operating costs, while the newer A380s can use their relative fuel burn advantage on longer sectors such as LHR-SIN, LHR-JNB and LHR-HKG, where the ratio of premium to leisure demand isn't quite so lopsided.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:50 pm

Hasn't Clark said he likes Y as it is? Comfortable. The sculpturing of the 777x sides will improve the comfort of that plane. Interesting both are mostly EK planes. Probably not a coincidence.
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Fiend
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:06 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Fiend wrote:
The A380 doesn't feel as cramped or as claustrophobic as a 3-4-3 777 or a 3-3-3 787.... Given a choice on a flight operated by EK, I would choose the A380 every time, not a sardine can 777.

Gonna be funny when it eventually (and arguably, inevitably) gets utilized for 11 abreast in high density; especially as the 1st-iteration's life cycle ages.


It's now 10 years since the first A380 was delivered and yet no A380 operator has gone for a high density configuration....

The same can't be said for 777 and 787.... it didn't take airlines long before they started cramming the seats in....
BAC 1-11, A300, A320, A321, A330, A340, A350, A380, B737, B747, B757, B777, B787, L1011, Fokker 100, ATR 72, MD83
 
JamesCousins
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:20 pm

JustSomeDood wrote:
JamesCousins wrote:
If orchestrated correctly, the introduction of the 787-10 on lower demand routes will only drive orders for more 380s, the feed increases, routes get up-gauged.


Given that the 78J would be the smallest aircraft in EK's fleet (along with the 77L), the feed would increase with the 787-10 only if either:
-EK expands to new routes with the 787-10
-EK replaces routes from FlyDubai with the 787-10

I suspect that while the above two may very well happen to some extent, a good amount of the 78X utilization is going to be to replace 77Ws on routes to manage yields and reduce breakeven loads...


I'm afraid I disagree. The 787-10 may operate odd 77W routes, depending on demand that will inevitably vary, but the order for 150 777X's will cover 77W retirements. The whole point of the 787-10 order, which notably includes options for 787-9s too, is to open up routes that currently don't have sufficient demand to justify a 77W. Tim Clark stated recently that most 787s will feature first class suites, showing they'll be internationally configured...
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Revelation
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:29 pm

caljn wrote:
Indeed, and the world's largest Airbus operator is: American Airlines! Go figure...

Only as a result of the US merger.

I'm not sure what your point is.

Every large legacy carrier is the result of many mergers.

I'm old enough to remember BOAC and BEA, Air Inter and UTA, LH and Air Berlin ( :biggrin: ), etc.

And since the US-AA merger we've seen AA take A320s and A321s in massive numbers.

Point is, A380 is not rejected in the US market because it's European, it's rejected because it's too big.

Airbus has placed its products in AA, UA, DL, B6, F9, NK, VX/AS, etc.

The US is Airbus's largest market.

The A380 is just the wrong product for the US market.
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:32 pm

par13del wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
Does Airfrance still use the A380 on the Paris - New York route ?

As of now, 2x daily - AF6 and AF10 are A388's.

Hmmm....so AF is able to run the A380 to JFK without trashing its yields but BA cannot even try one daily for a busy period, summer period, winter period, holiday period,,,, I am shocked that thousands of BA clients who value frequency over "the best experience" will abandon them if they were to be so brave.
In my opinion, there has to be something more than frequency to BA not trying an A380 on the JFK route, inquiring minds would like to know.

As already mentioned, JFK T7 does not have any A380 capable gates and no room to add them.

BA also wants a high volume route where it can milk its ageing 744s on without sending them all over the system.

It's about the right length (longer means fuel burn hurts more) and the 744s have a lot of F and J seats that sell well.

So, there's no big mystery, in fact it all makes a lot of sense
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:55 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Aren't most EK A380s are low MTOW versions?

Why is Timmy not getting all with max MTOW?

Maybe because you've got more wrong than right in your essay?

There is an MTOW limited A380 version around that
allows to meet some LHR super low noise limitations.

.. then why pay for higher MTOW when you don't need it?
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:21 pm

The only think we learned is that managers rarely talk bad about products they just bought.
 
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speedbored
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Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:14 am

Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:37 pm

seahawk wrote:
The only think we learned is that managers rarely talk bad about products they just bought.

Odd then, that he is claiming that the A380 has enormous advantages over twinjets, when he has bought so many more twinjets than he has A380s.

Or, maybe, what he is saying just happens to be true.
 
HHScot
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:11 pm

Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:00 pm

What an amazing amount of politically motivated comments in this thread. And on both sides of the argument.

I'll just throw my 2¢ worth in: The A380 seems to work very well for Emirates, but that doesn't mean that it would work in other markets. The US airlines were already moving away from the B747 before the A380 came along. Their reluctance to bite isn't due to it being a European product, but because it wouldn't work for them. However, those insinuating that the A380 doesn't really work for Emirates and its continued use is merely a cover up need their heads read. If it didn't work then they wouldn't have just topped up their orders again. They could have easily not taken any and then "saved face" by pointing the finger at Airbus, accusing them of pulling the plug on the program. Nobody was pointing a gun at their heads forcing them to buy again.

From my own recent experiences flying with BA in both Business and Economy in the A380 and B787, I must say that both aircraft were significantly better and more comfortable than the B777 and B747. After these flights I felt significantly less exhausted, and that despite my advancing years! :D
 
CFRPwingALbody
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:59 pm

Doesn't BA and AA have a code-share agreement via the OneWorld alliance? If this is the case there now twelve daily flights for OneWorld between LHR-JFK. I find it weird that AA isn't using the same terminal at LHR as BA. Is that also the case at JFK? (Yes according to wiki)
BA has many 747-400s and has configured several of them for this route. I had a business heavy A380 seat configuration in mind, and indeed Airbus specifically for this route developed a lower MTOW variant of the A380 (less noise). BA uses the A380 on the longer range LHR-LAX, most likely because the A380 is optimized for long range flights (>10 hours).
BA has planned to have phased out the 747 by 2024. If they replace the 747's with 777's or A350s their capacity drops. If they replace several with a premium heavy A380 and the rest with 777's or A350s they increase their capacity. I think the capacity stil increases slightly when BA drops two daily flights.
I agree the availability of A380 suitable gates at JFK is a problem, but that can be fixed. Possibly assigning terminals to alliances can happen at the same time as the terminal upgrades.

I agree with the statement that the qualities of the A380 are underestimated by many airlines. But it's a risky plane to take into a fleet, because it has the capacity of two widebodies in one plane. I think the A380 is very suitable to connect the hubs of the different alliances.
 
d8s
Posts: 72
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:50 pm

Peterwk146 wrote:
Kindanew wrote:
Sir Tim is simply an Airbus fanboy.
I for one don't know that the A380 is impossible to make a profit with.


Simple business...If it was a profit machine everyone would own them. They don't because it is tough to make profit with them...same goes for the 747-8
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:54 pm

Fiend wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Fiend wrote:
The A380 doesn't feel as cramped or as claustrophobic as a 3-4-3 777 or a 3-3-3 787.... Given a choice on a flight operated by EK, I would choose the A380 every time, not a sardine can 777.

Gonna be funny when it eventually (and arguably, inevitably) gets utilized for 11 abreast in high density; especially as the 1st-iteration's life cycle ages.

It's now 10 years since the first A380 was delivered and yet no A380 operator has gone for a high density configuration....

The same can't be said for 777 and 787.... it didn't take airlines long before they started cramming the seats in

Sure, but count the number of airlines operating either of the above, versus the A380.
Not tough to see why their operational profile evolved much more quickly, when there's that many more operators' preferences to cater to.

Image

That said, I'll be beyond shocked if we don't see 11abreast once we start seeing secondhand usage of enough A380s, or even as the first generation ages.

Airlines will look for ways to squeeze more efficiency/revenue out of them; and some (e.g. EK and AF) are quite public about it.

They're already researching the feasibility and practicality of doing so, and long since have. The fact that Airbus is actively encouraging 11abreast, just gives that much more credence to it.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
TC957
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:12 pm

BA can't use the 380 to JFK as their terminal there isn't ready to handle it. Similarly they can't use it to CPT as the airport isn't able to facilitate it - yet.
I would have thought BA would do well putting the 380 on the SYD service during the December & January peak months. The extra capacity to SIN would be a bonus too.
 
global2
Posts: 318
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:50 am

Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:15 pm

[quote="CFRPwingALbody"]Doesn't BA and AA have a code-share agreement via the OneWorld alliance? If this is the case there now twelve daily flights for OneWorld between LHR-JFK. I find it weird that AA isn't using the same terminal at LHR as BA. Is that also the case at JFK? (Yes according to wiki)

Does T5 at LHR have the room to fit AA's operation?

At JFK, BA operates it's own terminal (7) and AA has T8. If AA were ever to complete T8 it's possible BA could move in.
 
Peterwk146
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:22 am

Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:54 pm

Kindanew wrote:
Peterwk146 wrote:
Kindanew wrote:
Sir Tim is simply an Airbus fanboy.
Everybody knows the A380 is impossible to make a profit with. :)

May I ask on what basis do you make that statement?
Do you have firm evidence from A380 operators?
I for one don't know that the A380 is impossible to make a profit with.


The smiley face was to denote sarcasm.

Sorry, I missed the sarcasm unsmiley face.
 
Peterwk146
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:22 am

Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:59 pm

d8s wrote:
Peterwk146 wrote:
Kindanew wrote:
Sir Tim is simply an Airbus fanboy.
I for one don't know that the A380 is impossible to make a profit with.


Simple business...If it was a profit machine everyone would own them. They don't because it is tough to make profit with them...same goes for the 747-8


Have you got the facts behind your statement "it is tough to make profit with them" or is it a hypothesis made by you?
 
Begues
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:43 pm

Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:00 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Fiend wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Gonna be funny when it eventually (and arguably, inevitably) gets utilized for 11 abreast in high density; especially as the 1st-iteration's life cycle ages.

It's now 10 years since the first A380 was delivered and yet no A380 operator has gone for a high density configuration....

The same can't be said for 777 and 787.... it didn't take airlines long before they started cramming the seats in

Sure, but count the number of airlines operating either of the above, versus the A380.
Not tough to see why their operational profile evolved much more quickly, when there's that many more operators' preferences to cater to.

Image

That said, I'll be beyond shocked if we don't see 11abreast once we start seeing secondhand usage of enough A380s, or even as the first generation ages.

Airlines will look for ways to squeeze more efficiency/revenue out of them; and some (e.g. EK and AF) are quite public about it.

They're already researching the feasibility and practicality of doing so, and long since have. The fact that Airbus is actively encouraging 11abreast, just gives that much more credence to it.


The A380 cabin is still 28 inches wider so even with an extra seat it is still more comfortable than the 777.
 
Arion640
Posts: 1534
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:04 pm

global2 wrote:
CFRPwingALbody wrote:
Doesn't BA and AA have a code-share agreement via the OneWorld alliance? If this is the case there now twelve daily flights for OneWorld between LHR-JFK. I find it weird that AA isn't using the same terminal at LHR as BA. Is that also the case at JFK? (Yes according to wiki)

Does T5 at LHR have the room to fit AA's operation?

At JFK, BA operates it's own terminal (7) and AA has T8. If AA were ever to complete T8 it's possible BA could move in.


No T5 doesn't have enough capacity to house all of BA's flights let alone AA's aswell. In an ideal world, they'd probably want BA/IB/EI/AA/AY + maybe Qatar all under one roof.

It would probably be easier to accomodate all of BA's JFK flights at T8 than AA's LHR flights at T5.
319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 738 744 752 753 763 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75.

Concorde - a great British aircraft.
 
Armodeen
Posts: 963
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:17 am

Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:07 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:

A380 is the worst for the economy class passengers, chaotic boarding, crowded fish bowl with not enough meal choices, late baggage arrival.




If you read this thread or many of the others like it, you’ll know that the majority of people who have an opinion prefer the A380. It has real appeal and people go out of their way to fly on it.
 
Planesmart
Posts: 2880
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:11 pm

tealnz wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
A380 is profitable only on 6hr:30m to 8hr missions and PLF is higher than BELF. To everywhere else you will be burning cash. That limits A380 pretty much to DXB-Europe routes

Curious. So they're simply burning cash ferrying Aussies and kiwis to Dubai? Why would they continue to do that? And why shift to non-stop Auckland-Dubai on the 380?

Perhaps because Kiwis are very discriminating. They are prepared to pay more to fly in an A380, as EK discovered when they initially opened the route with the 777. They even started a call programme trying to switch Kiwis flying the Tasman to DXB, to the direct AKL-DXB option.

Anywhere they have flown 777 and A380 on the same route (like LGW), Y was consistently cheaper on the 777. Must be for a reason.
 
Strato2
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:12 pm

emiratesdriver wrote:
IF you can fill it, it’s a money maker up to 10hrs or so....beyond that it in EK service it merely covers costs, as been confirmed numerous times to me, and it’s why there are more 777s than 380s in service at EK and across the planet.


"If you can fill it" is a red herring that applies equally to every plane flying out there not just the Superjumbo. As for the other claim can you provide any back up to what you are saying? There are also more A320's than 777's flying. A bigger plane will almost always sell less so another red herring.
 
Planesmart
Posts: 2880
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:15 pm

WIederling wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Aren't most EK A380s are low MTOW versions?

Why is Timmy not getting all with max MTOW?

Maybe because you've got more wrong than right in your essay?

There is an MTOW limited A380 version around that
allows to meet some LHR super low noise limitations.

.. then why pay for higher MTOW when you don't need it?

Indeed.

And it incurs lower emissions fee at LHR, and attracts lower PBTH too.

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