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Ab345
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Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:33 pm

Some interesting quotes from STC today..

During an 11 April media briefing at Hamburg airport – while the Aircraft Interiors Expo was being held elsewhere in the city – Clark said the A380 was "vital" to Emirates and represented "still the best unique selling point that anybody has got".

But he adds: "They don't have the A380. And the A380 gives us enormous capability that a normal twin doesn't [provide]."

The double-deck aircraft's cabin allows carriers to provide a generous product "because you have so much more space", especially in economy class – which Clark describes as "exceptional" on Emirates.

It also took 16 options, which will be exercised "sooner rather than later", says Clark. The options would extend deliveries by two years until 2029, Airbus has said.

"You get ultra-long visions with small aeroplanes like the 787-9 and the A350-900LR, whatever. [But] you are still in a twin," he says.


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... em-447681/
 
Kindanew
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:48 pm

Sir Tim is simply an Airbus fanboy.
Everybody knows the A380 is impossible to make a profit with. :)
Last edited by Kindanew on Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Channex757
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:51 pm

The plane has the same halo effect that the original 747 had for Pan Am and TWA. It's a huge change from the preceding generation of airliners and as it's both big and exceptionally comfortable, that halo effect draws in passengers.

Even if the route is actually a 777 operated one, the A380 still has that star effect that brings passengers to the airline. The average punter doesn't have detailed aviation knowledge, they just see Emirates as the Ritzy middle-eastern airline with that double decker flying palace. It's a great marketing tool, just as Concorde was for BA and AF.
 
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keesje
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:54 pm

He just doesn't understand, this is a quad!
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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Jayafe
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:36 pm

TC has just earned his 0.1% discount in the next order
 
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PerfectGriffin
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:36 pm

I'm surprised they still keep the bar in the plane. I've been only a few times but it's always been relatively empty up there. Might as well put more seats in that space.
 
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Jayafe
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:40 pm

PerfectGriffin wrote:
I'm surprised they still keep the bar in the plane. I've been only a few times but it's always been relatively empty up there. Might as well put more seats in that space.


Because a few more Y seats will generate more revenue than attracting high yield passengers with amenities? Well, number suggest TV is right and you are wrong. The A380 has more than enough seats, in any current configuration already.
 
BlatantEcho
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:12 pm

Used the bar earlier this year on DXB-SFO. Packed.
 
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DDR
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:22 pm

Jayafe wrote:

Because a few more Y seats will generate more revenue than attracting high yield passengers with amenities? Well, number suggest TV is right and you are wrong. The A380 has more than enough seats, in any current configuration already.


Agree with Jayafe. No A380 is lacking in seats. The best option for operators is to keep the amenities for the high yielding passengers and give economy passengers more legroom and space.
 
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DWC
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:27 pm

PerfectGriffin wrote:
I'm surprised they still keep the bar in the plane. I've been only a few times but it's always been relatively empty up there. Might as well put more seats in that space.

That's because you have not followed EK's marketing well.
Nor STC extatic on how "it's one big party up there" ( speaking of the upper-deck bar ).

And now with EK's revamped spirits offering, be sure that EK's loyal premium passengers will be more than happy to flock in back :

Emirates announced this week that they’ve revamped their spirits offerings in all three classes of service. This new selection has been designed by an in-house team of experts who spent two years working with suppliers to curate their offerings. Emirates takes their alcohol seriously — after all, this is also the airline that has invested 500 million USD in their wine program
[...]
Every time that I think Emirates can’t be more over-the-top, they prove me wrong…
https://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2018/04/13/emirates-hennessy-paradis-imperial/
 
Arion640
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:28 pm

PerfectGriffin wrote:
I'm surprised they still keep the bar in the plane. I've been only a few times but it's always been relatively empty up there. Might as well put more seats in that space.


STC once said it's a great marketing tool as a businessmen love to see themselves standing at a bar inflight, networking and socialising etc.

He said they could get away with ditching the F showers but the bar has to stay.
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Peterwk146
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:41 pm

Kindanew wrote:
Sir Tim is simply an Airbus fanboy.
Everybody knows the A380 is impossible to make a profit with. :)

May I ask on what basis do you make that statement?
Do you have firm evidence from A380 operators?
I for one don't know that the A380 is impossible to make a profit with.
 
Begues
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:01 pm

Channex757 wrote:
The plane has the same halo effect that the original 747 had for Pan Am and TWA. It's a huge change from the preceding generation of airliners and as it's both big and exceptionally comfortable, that halo effect draws in passengers.

Even if the route is actually a 777 operated one, the A380 still has that star effect that brings passengers to the airline. The average punter doesn't have detailed aviation knowledge, they just see Emirates as the Ritzy middle-eastern airline with that double decker flying palace. It's a great marketing tool, just as Concorde was for BA and AF.


In an era of insane uncomfort in tourist class, flying the A380 is an utter luxury, it is more comfortable than any other airliner in service today.
 
Kindanew
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:12 am

Peterwk146 wrote:
Kindanew wrote:
Sir Tim is simply an Airbus fanboy.
Everybody knows the A380 is impossible to make a profit with. :)

May I ask on what basis do you make that statement?
Do you have firm evidence from A380 operators?
I for one don't know that the A380 is impossible to make a profit with.


The smiley face was to denote sarcasm.
 
itisi
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:15 am

I don't care what anyone says. The A380 is the best plane I've flown on, space, smooth and comfortable, I'm talking about economy... where it matters and where most of us fly.
737-300/400/500 ... are NOT classics :)
 
Fiend
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:28 am

itisi wrote:
I don't care what anyone says. The A380 is the best plane I've flown on, space, smooth and comfortable, I'm talking about economy... where it matters and where most of us fly.


I agree, as a passenger the A380 is so much nicer to fly in compared to other aircraft....
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:45 am

Only experienced one A380 Y Class trip on BA LHR-YVR in 2016. It was like floating on a cloud, almost no engine noise, no turbulence little awareness of the climb and descent. No other plane even comes close to the Y experience in an A380.
 
JustSomeDood
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:01 am

And yet it took Airbus threatening to shut down their A380 production line for EK to order their most recent A380s, actions speak louder than words and it seems that even EK is struggling to find uses for all their incoming A380s...
 
chiawei
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:22 am

Fiend wrote:
itisi wrote:
I don't care what anyone says. The A380 is the best plane I've flown on, space, smooth and comfortable, I'm talking about economy... where it matters and where most of us fly.


I agree, as a passenger the A380 is so much nicer to fly in compared to other aircraft....


Yeah right- you still get the same economy seat, you still get the same business class seat.

Unless you are flying first- A380 is not much nicer to fly compare to other.
 
chiawei
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:26 am

ACCS300 wrote:
Only experienced one A380 Y Class trip on BA LHR-YVR in 2016. It was like floating on a cloud, almost no engine noise, no turbulence little awareness of the climb and descent. No other plane even comes close to the Y experience in an A380.


Just because a flight is smooth- doesn't meant the airplane itself is a huge factor.

Having flown A380 many times- the only thing i agree is the engine noise- because on SQ and LH- both business class is on the upper deck. Engine sound don't magically disappear :D
 
EChid
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:33 am

JustSomeDood wrote:
And yet it took Airbus threatening to shut down their A380 production line for EK to order their most recent A380s, actions speak louder than words and it seems that even EK is struggling to find uses for all their incoming A380s...


How do you read that? EK's utilization of their current A380 fleet is very high. It's their 777 utilization that is lower due to a variety of issues (pilot shortage, variety of leases ending, age, etc.).
 
jumbojet
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:45 am

so one out of several hundred airline CEO's thinks this. Not very impressive.
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:49 am

Trying to get some more airlines to bite so Airbus doesn't kill the program
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
AvObserver
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:05 am

The A380 undoubtedly works very well for Emirates; no surprise Tim Clark is a fan. Problem is it doesn't work quite as well for its other operators since none seem to need any additional frames. And the remaining airlines seem to have no interest in it whatsoever. So Clark can espouse its advantages over normal twins all he wants but that model seems to work only for EK, a super carrier. His praise sounds almost like an Airbus sales pitch but it won't resonate with anyone other than EK execs and shareholders. Sure passengers LOVE it but that's so far not translating into sales beyond Emirates but the latest lifeline buys Airbus more time to try to entice others. Without the NEO EK itself wants, that's a daunting proposition. And the twins Clark dismisses as competition keep improving; the A350, B787 and the coming 777X designed mainly for Emirates are a bit more than normal twins and are compelling alternatives, at least for all other carriers. But of course, the normal rules of airline operation don't apply to EK so I'm sure they'll be happily flying A380s for decades to come, even if other airlines won't be.
 
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:08 am

jumbojet wrote:
so one out of several hundred airline CEO's thinks this. Not very impressive.

:checkmark:

That was my reading of it.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
DarthLobster
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:21 am

Only when it’s full, Tim. Only when it’s full...
 
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:29 am

LAX772LR wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
so one out of several hundred airline CEO's thinks this. Not very impressive.

:checkmark:
That was my reading of it.

It took one Christopher Columbus to get to America ( even if he thought he got to India ) & one Werner von Braun to make Rockets, one MOL to build Europe's largest airline & one Tony Fernandes to do the same in Malaysia, while all laughed or didn't even see the possibility. Geniuses are rare & all the other people, even medalled CEO's, lag behind.

EK is now the world's largest LH airline & no one saw it coming when the A380 was launched.
Both STC & of course John Leahy said they didn't undertand why other airlines aren't getting their strategy right.
If SQ can fly 19 whale-jets, so could AF, BA, LH ( well, they have as many 748s ) & a few others, but they are risk averse. The result is that the Europe/Asia traffic growth was totally captured by the ME3, with admitedly lower costs than the Legacies.
Now my point is not to restart all the conversations we've already had ad nauseam, but just to point out that EK knew what they were doing, looked far into the future & actually have succeeded, to the point of emulating QR & EY - TK to a lesser extent.
THAT, demanded VISION ! Which the EU3 don't have. SIA have it.
 
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:33 am

DWC wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
so one out of several hundred airline CEO's thinks this. Not very impressive.

:checkmark:
That was my reading of it.

It took one Christopher Columbus to get to America ( even if he thought he got to India ) & one Werner von Braun to make Rockets

...but it'll take the lifespan of a thousand head scratchers, to figure out what the heck this has to do with the issue at hand.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Fiend
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:34 am

chiawei wrote:
Fiend wrote:
itisi wrote:
I don't care what anyone says. The A380 is the best plane I've flown on, space, smooth and comfortable, I'm talking about economy... where it matters and where most of us fly.


I agree, as a passenger the A380 is so much nicer to fly in compared to other aircraft....


Yeah right- you still get the same economy seat, you still get the same business class seat.

Unless you are flying first- A380 is not much nicer to fly compare to other.


The A380 doesn't feel as cramped or as claustrophobic as a 3-4-3 777 or a 3-3-3 787.... Given a choice on a flight operated by EK, I would choose the A380 every time, not a sardine can 777.
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:35 am

Fiend wrote:
The A380 doesn't feel as cramped or as claustrophobic as a 3-4-3 777 or a 3-3-3 787.... Given a choice on a flight operated by EK, I would choose the A380 every time, not a sardine can 777.

Gonna be funny when it eventually (and arguably, inevitably) gets utilized for 11 abreast in high density; especially as the 1st-iteration's life cycle ages.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:54 am

Only 13 airline CEO's opinions matter and we hear no negativity from the other 12 at all, even Malaysian who had difficult times has now found the aircraft does fulfil its role rather well. Only SQ has parked a few of their early build and leased aircraft and they were replaced with new builds. We'll see what ANA has to say in the future and who ever takes the used aircraft in the future.
The thing is that when the A380 was conceived the industry was in a different place than today and certainly airlines that once operated the 747 could have easily done a one for one swap and been more profitable on those routes where the 747 was profitable. But, we don't live back then and many airlines decided that growth was better using smaller aircraft as a safer way to go, that's safer profit wise of course.
As for comfort levels we all know that airlines dictate the seat type and spacing and we see that with the 777 and 787 in particular who now carry 10 and 9 abreast respectively where in the past they were 9 and 8 although the 787 suffered this early on and I think only the Japanese had their 787 in the original intended configuration. As for smoothness I've had enough turbulent flights on all aircraft types including the A380 and you still need to buckle up and get shaken about. Sound and noise? Yes I've been around a long time and the early jets were screamers even on the inside but they are getting better and it depends where you sit but having said that modern aircraft are much quieter even in just the last 20 years, 777 is ok, the A380 is better and the 787 is about the same but I think the A350 is the quietest one on the inside so far of the big aircraft anyway. Maybe when the GTF get's big enough we could experience C series type sound which by all accounts is very quiet indeed.

I still believe if the A380 was a Boeing more people would be raving about it and the three remaining US carriers that could use them would all have them.
I remember when the DC-3 was new!
 
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:00 am

Fiend wrote:
chiawei wrote:
Fiend wrote:

I agree, as a passenger the A380 is so much nicer to fly in compared to other aircraft....


Yeah right- you still get the same economy seat, you still get the same business class seat.

Unless you are flying first- A380 is not much nicer to fly compare to other.


The A380 doesn't feel as cramped or as claustrophobic as a 3-4-3 777 or a 3-3-3 787.... Given a choice on a flight operated by EK, I would choose the A380 every time, not a sardine can 777.


Agreed. 380 is a much better choice to fly especially for long, transoceanic route. Really like 777 but personally can't stand GE90 when flying in Y.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:12 am

ERJ135 wrote:
I still believe if the A380 was a Boeing more people would be raving about it and the three remaining US carriers that could use them would all have them.


oh brother. your thoughts were all fine till you had to drop that.

The US3 not only can't use them, they cannot (thus far) use the 748, 777x and have few 77W. Point is- the US3 has little need in their current ops for large planes. There's no need to foster the easily disproved narrative that US carriers have any preference for Boeing. Simply not true. US carriers have *always* had endless appetite for CRJ, EMB, Fokkers, Saabs, and yes - Airbus.
 
JustSomeDood
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:24 am

ERJ135 wrote:
Only 13 airline CEO's opinions matter and we hear no negativity from the other 12 at all, even Malaysian who had difficult times has now found the aircraft does fulfil its role rather well. Only SQ has parked a few of their early build and leased aircraft and they were replaced with new builds. We'll see what ANA has to say in the future and who ever takes the used aircraft in the future.

I still believe if the A380 was a Boeing more people would be raving about it and the three remaining US carriers that could use them would all have them.


So only the ceos who currently do operate A380s opinions matter? Airbus's order book disagrees, as do the countless major Airlines who likely did take a look at the A380s and decided it didn't fit their route structure to order them.

As for the US3, they were among the last adopters of 77Ws (DL still doesn't have them), none of them ordered the 777X or A35K), these actions suggests that they don't even need to replace their 744 capacity 1-for-1, let alone get way more capacity with A380s
 
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:45 am

EK's success (albeit flat recently) with the A380 is entirely dependent on DXB's location and EK's scissor-hub strategy. If you don't have all three factors in your business model (A380, DXB, and scissor-hub strategy), you have no need for 100+ A380s, or any new A380s. That's why only STC wants more A380s and no other CEO is interested. EK is "the ME bubble that worked" as a result of its first-to-market (in that business model) advantage, leaving two nearby, but later, bubbles rapidly contracting despite implementing the same business model.
 
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zeke
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:07 am

WPvsMW wrote:
EK's success (albeit flat recently) with the A380 is entirely dependent on DXB's location and EK's scissor-hub strategy. If you don't have all three factors in your business model (A380, DXB, and scissor-hub strategy), you have no need for 100+ A380s, or any new A380s. That's why only STC wants more A380s and no other CEO is interested. EK is "the ME bubble that worked" as a result of its first-to-market (in that business model) advantage, leaving two nearby, but later, bubbles rapidly contracting despite implementing the same business model.


I don’t agree, EKs business model in my view is high volume lower yields. The airline simply could not work with a fleet of mid size twins only. The large twins and quads gets them high volumes. With high volumes they can reduce their overheads which makes them super competitive in the marketplace.
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:20 am

zeke wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
EK's success (albeit flat recently) with the A380 is entirely dependent on DXB's location and EK's scissor-hub strategy. If you don't have all three factors in your business model (A380, DXB, and scissor-hub strategy), you have no need for 100+ A380s, or any new A380s. That's why only STC wants more A380s and no other CEO is interested. EK is "the ME bubble that worked" as a result of its first-to-market (in that business model) advantage, leaving two nearby, but later, bubbles rapidly contracting despite implementing the same business model.


I don’t agree, EKs business model in my view is high volume lower yields. The airline simply could not work with a fleet of mid size twins only. The large twins and quads gets them high volumes. With high volumes they can reduce their overheads which makes them super competitive in the marketplace.



I really wonder how much net profit EK makes on a yearly basis ...... while the 380 is a giant whale.... filling the entire airplane on a regular basis and maintenance costs for those planes has to be insane.
 
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:26 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Fiend wrote:
The A380 doesn't feel as cramped or as claustrophobic as a 3-4-3 777 or a 3-3-3 787.... Given a choice on a flight operated by EK, I would choose the A380 every time, not a sardine can 777.

Gonna be funny when it eventually (and arguably, inevitably) gets utilized for 11 abreast in high density; especially as the 1st-iteration's life cycle ages.

Then it will be just another sardine can, similar what the most airlines are offering in most Boeing products. And the vast majority of passengers won't care.
 
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TheRedBaron
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:56 am

The A380 is the equivalent of penis envy for Boeing Lovers. It will be produced till 2028-29, and if BA and others order a few dozen more it will keep A net a very interesting place to be in the next 2 decades...

TRB
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LAX772LR
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:56 am

marcelh wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Fiend wrote:
The A380 doesn't feel as cramped or as claustrophobic as a 3-4-3 777 or a 3-3-3 787.... Given a choice on a flight operated by EK, I would choose the A380 every time, not a sardine can 777.

Gonna be funny when it eventually (and arguably, inevitably) gets utilized for 11 abreast in high density; especially as the 1st-iteration's life cycle ages.

Then it will be just another sardine can, similar what the most airlines are offering in most Boeing products. And the vast majority of passengers won't care.

:checkmark: Bingo.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:58 am

FlyHappy wrote:
US carriers have *always* had endless appetite for CRJ, EMB, Fokkers, Saabs, and yes - Airbus.


However you should concede Airbus [widebodies] were fashionably late to the party in the U.S.A. Eastern of course was first to test the water and subsequent A300 sales in the USA, while most welcome to me, were a tad flat. I've been an aviation enthusiast since around the time Eastern got those first A300s and eventually expanded their fleet of them, so I have some tenure with U.S. Airline fleet composition from that perspective. Thankfully more have flown across the Atlantic with N-registrations in the decades since.

I'm also pleased the Airbus narrow body types have enjoyed success in the U.S.A. as a result of our airlines willingness to go there.
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seahawk
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Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:59 am

He just ordered some additional A380, he can hardly be honest and tell the press that he bought inefficient behemoth.
 
marcelh
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:51 am

LAX772LR wrote:
marcelh wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Gonna be funny when it eventually (and arguably, inevitably) gets utilized for 11 abreast in high density; especially as the 1st-iteration's life cycle ages.

Then it will be just another sardine can, similar what the most airlines are offering in most Boeing products. And the vast majority of passengers won't care.

:checkmark: Bingo.

I'm happy to be part of the minority who cares, so the only Boeing I fly in Y is the 747. Luckily for me Lufthansa has some :biggrin:
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:59 am

seahawk wrote:
He just ordered some additional A380, he can hardly be honest and tell the press that he bought inefficient behemoth.


Well if he's lying why would he have bought more of the i'nefficient behemoth ' ?

It may not work for everyone but it works for EK.

Crikey, he dispatches 4 a day on 14 hour missions from SYD to DXB. He says Sydney is a goldmine. EK is just different to alot of carriers.
 
parapente
Posts: 2562
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:42 pm

Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:46 am

Anybody who has tried their A380's on biz and economy must know how good their offering is.Sir T has got himself and his airline into a phenomenal place.Fairly untouchable I would say ( re ME 1,2,3 discussion).Coming up behind are two more phenomenal aircaft from Boeing (he is no Airbus fan boy - but an Emirates fan boy).
For me the interest is why he has not been tempted to put in a premium class.Economy is so good- on the A 380 that he may judge it unnecessary.Mind you that's not the case on the 773's.
Perhaps he is protecting his business load factors? I'm not really sure.I would have though a prem' class. Would do rather well.Especially on his higher density A380's there is a great space behind biz for it.
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 1109
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:39 am

zeke wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
EK's success (albeit flat recently) with the A380 is entirely dependent on DXB's location and EK's scissor-hub strategy. If you don't have all three factors in your business model (A380, DXB, and scissor-hub strategy), you have no need for 100+ A380s, or any new A380s. That's why only STC wants more A380s and no other CEO is interested. EK is "the ME bubble that worked" as a result of its first-to-market (in that business model) advantage, leaving two nearby, but later, bubbles rapidly contracting despite implementing the same business model.


I don’t agree, EKs business model in my view is high volume lower yields. The airline simply could not work with a fleet of mid size twins only. The large twins and quads gets them high volumes. With high volumes they can reduce their overheads which makes them super competitive in the marketplace.


I respect your opinion, but EK is the ONLY airline that has succeeded in 100+ A380s ... and "high volume lower yields" is essentially the core LCC strategy (but not with whalejets). Therefore, EK's business model has a secret sauce no other A380 or "high volume lower yield" operator has, which secret sauce is (i) DXB as a (ii) scissor hub for (iii) whalejets. "High volume lower yields" doesn't work for a whalejet fleet without (i) and (ii). Even with (i), (ii), and (iii), the business model can fail... just ask QR and EY.
 
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idp5601
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:47 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Fiend wrote:
The A380 doesn't feel as cramped or as claustrophobic as a 3-4-3 777 or a 3-3-3 787.... Given a choice on a flight operated by EK, I would choose the A380 every time, not a sardine can 777.

Gonna be funny when it eventually (and arguably, inevitably) gets utilized for 11 abreast in high density; especially as the 1st-iteration's life cycle ages.

I don't think full-service airlines would be crazy enough to go with 11-abreast (unless it's the A380plus). The seat width would be roughly the same as a 9-abreast A330 or a 10-abreast A350, and luckily we haven't seen many airlines (save for LCCs and charters) adopt that.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 13380
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:28 am

There is a limited but significant place for the A380, serving airports with limited slots, timing of operations at either end and high demand year round like LHR where fares can be high enough to cover their costs. A380's will also work best with those airlines like the EK that have lower financing and labor costs as well as have a large enough fleet size of them to make it financially efficient. Still, the biggest 777's and A350's may still be a better choice for all but a few airlines for most long haul and even ULH work, as have a better balance of capacity and so better fare yields and thus profits in day to day use vs. the A380.
 
brindabella
Posts: 378
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:38 am

Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:52 am

ERJ135 wrote:
..., even Malaysian who had difficult times has now found the aircraft does fullfil its role rather well.


That's news. Got a link for that?

ERJ135 wrote:
I still believe if the A380 was a Boeing more people would be raving about it and the three remaining US carriers that could use them would all have them.


You should keep up better.

The reviews assessing the likely damage of an EU vs USA trade-fight show that the likely damage to Airliner OEMs would be far more to ...

The EU (EG Airbus) !

Why?

Because there is a much greater penetration of AB frames in the USA skies than there are BA frames flying in the EU skies.
Your slip is showing, IMO.

cheers
Billy
 
WIederling
Posts: 6245
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Tim Clark: A380's advantages over twinjets still 'enormous'

Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:57 am

idp5601 wrote:
I don't think full-service airlines would be crazy enough to go with 11-abreast (unless it's the A380plus). The seat width would be roughly the same as a 9-abreast A330 or a 10-abreast A350, and luckily we haven't seen many airlines (save for LCCs and charters) adopt that.


IMU: 11 abreast on the A380 is still pretty comfy and well above the current run of sardine can 777 @10across.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... on-397207/

--> 18" seats!

in simplistic terms:
8 across ( 10 "lanes") to 9 across loses 11% seat width to fit the same space
9 across ( 11 "lanes") to 10 across loses 10% seat width
10 across ( 12 "lanes") to 11 across loses 9% seat width ..
i.e. the wider the craft the less loss of comfort for adding a seat.

The A380 ( and the A330 too ) already starts out more comfy
while the 777 ( and even more the 787) already starts from a more cramped baseline.
Last edited by WIederling on Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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