Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Slash787 · Mon May 21, 2018 1:40 pm

binayak wrote:
Slash787 wrote:
The A330 which they are going to use, where is it being used now? or it is the one which they gave on lease? I guess to Turkish Airlines?

Yes it is the one which is currently leased to ...don't know exactly . I had previously heard Air Serbia. However wiki says Turkish Airlines.

3 Aircrafts have been leased to Turkish since 2014

pushpakvimaan · Tue May 22, 2018 5:49 pm

Another UDAN airport to soon have flights. Darbhanga Airport to be on air map of India.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 944182.cms

Interestingly, Darbhanga Airport was home airport for Darbhanga Aviation and had flights to international destinations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darbhanga_Aviation

binayak · Wed May 23, 2018 7:19 am

Vistara planning a 737MAX order. Well that's a complete fleet change.
https://www.financialexpress.com/infras ... e/1177582/
Is changing fleet type just after 3 years of service..a good sign? I think they were planning the same for a long time as last year they poached number of pilots from 9W and SG. Both use Boeing aircraft.

Slash787 · Wed May 23, 2018 2:12 pm

Vistara should have gone with the A321neo, changing their whole fleet so soon is a pretty weird and a dumb decision, for wide bodies I could have seen them going with the B787-9, but well this is weird.

binayak · Wed May 23, 2018 4:02 pm

@unrave's predictions are true . Disastrous performance by jet airways in Q4 Loss of 1045 CR. Such a pity....the airline had just recovered from losses after 10 long years in 2016. Lets see if the 737 MAX helps.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ma ... 292419.cms

dtw2hyd · Wed May 23, 2018 4:27 pm

GoI can do lot of things to help local carriers. Like reducing/eliminating duties on ATF, MRO and interest rates on working capital loans. Because GoI cannot let to that revenue stream, they are making every suffer. Just those three will increase operating margins by 5%-10%.

binayak · Wed May 23, 2018 4:33 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
GoI can do lot of things to help local carriers. Like reducing/eliminating duties on ATF, MRO and interest rates on working capital loans. Because GoI cannot let to that revenue stream, they are making every suffer. Just those three will increase operating margins by 5%-10%.

Completely agree with you . It's a pity that in an industry where pax growth YoY is in double digits , airlines continue to suffer from losses. However FSCs constitute only a small portion of the market. Maybe for the govt till the time SG and 6E are reporting profits no need to care whether 9W survives or not.

Slash787 · Wed May 23, 2018 5:15 pm

Spicejet starting flights from Madras to Manglore from June 16.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 291181.cms

VTORD · Wed May 23, 2018 6:02 pm

binayak wrote:
Vistara planning a 737MAX order. Well that's a complete fleet change.
https://www.financialexpress.com/infras ... e/1177582/
Is changing fleet type just after 3 years of service..a good sign? I think they were planning the same for a long time as last year they poached number of pilots from 9W and SG. Both use Boeing aircraft.

The article mentions that this may be closely connected with the fleet revision + integration at Silk Air. I am thinking the NEO engine issues probably played some part in to it. What engines does Vistara use on it's current fleet?

Slash787 · Wed May 23, 2018 6:15 pm

VTORD wrote:
What engines does Vistara use on it's current fleet?

CFM leap

zionite · Wed May 23, 2018 7:36 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
GoI can do lot of things to help local carriers. Like reducing/eliminating duties on ATF, MRO and interest rates on working capital loans. Because GoI cannot let to that revenue stream, they are making every suffer. Just those three will increase operating margins by 5%-10%.

Its a Pandora's Box - Duties, taxes and working capital loans rates are more or less same for all industries in India. Everyone pays duties on their fuels in India. Petrol at Rs. 80 per liter pinches me really hard. Hope GoI can reduces/eliminate duties on Petrol & Diesel first before they reduce/eliminate duties on ATF. I need to take loans at 12%+ for working capital in my business. Airlines are just glorified transport companies.

dtw2hyd · Wed May 23, 2018 8:53 pm

zionite wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
GoI can do lot of things to help local carriers. Like reducing/eliminating duties on ATF, MRO and interest rates on working capital loans. Because GoI cannot let to that revenue stream, they are making every suffer. Just those three will increase operating margins by 5%-10%.

Its a Pandora's Box - Duties, taxes and working capital loans rates are more or less same for all industries in India. Everyone pays duties on their fuels in India. Petrol at Rs. 80 per liter pinches me really hard. Hope GoI can reduces/eliminate duties on Petrol & Diesel first before they reduce/eliminate duties on ATF. I need to take loans at 12%+ for working capital in my business. Airlines are just glorified transport companies.

I think that is the problem. Indians compare personal/small business rates to enterprises and think these rates are normal. Keep in mind it is a global business.

Global rates for working capital is 3%-4%. No country imposes 40% on ATF and 50% on MRO. Middle Eastern airlines are able to get 0% Islamic financing with no repayment schedule. Its only a matter of time 6E get into this WC debt spiral.

Slash787 · Thu May 24, 2018 9:28 pm

So Delta will supposedly resume flights to Bombay from 2019, now how come suddenly Delta will get slots? what excuse does Jet Airways has now for not taking their B789's?

binayak · Fri May 25, 2018 4:03 am

Slash787 wrote:
So Delta will supposedly resume flights to Bombay from 2019, now how come suddenly Delta will get slots? what excuse does Jet Airways has now for not taking their B789's?

Delta needs 2 slots at BOM for their flight and will get it.
For 9W to take the 789s they need:
1. A proper network plan to use those 10 aircrafts.
2.Resources like crew, multiple slots not just 2.
3. A modern interior of those 789s. ( Anyways they are upgrading their product so that can be done)
4.Parking bays at an airport like BOM ( because the 789s won't be flying all day unlike the 737MAX)
5.Stable domestic business (which they don't have as per the financial reports of previous few quarters)

And I think I've told you earlier also that if jet didn't want to take those 789s they would've cancelled the order instead of deferring it. Delta is coming to BOM in 2019 so it is possible that jet might announce the deliveries of 789s by 2020. Strange that some people here still want 9W to make a rush for wide bodies like they did 10 years ago and we all know how were the consequences.

anubhav787 · Fri May 25, 2018 6:18 am

Jet Airways is starting a new flight from Lucknow to Allahabad under the UDAN Scheme. The distance is just 200 kilometres by road and the flight time is 1 Hour 5 Minutes by ATR 72. What makes the flight time so long? LKO-DEL takes 50 Minutes for a distance of 500 kilometres by a jet aircraft and 80 Minutes by a turboprop.
Also, would the flight be viable if the time taken by road is 5 hours?

Sayan777 · Fri May 25, 2018 6:26 am

If Delta is starting services to Mumbai from 2019 will they use the A350.

unrave · Wed May 30, 2018 3:14 pm

IndiGo has announced the launch of Tuticorin (TCR), making it by far the smallest airport that 6E flies to, with 3x daily flights from MAA. This also means 6E flies to five airports in TN (MAA, CJB, IXM, TRZ, TCR), the highest number of airports that 6E flies to in any state.

binayak · Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:14 pm

Vistara is expected to order six B787s and are currently deciding whether to take the -9/-10 variant.
Might be due to the good number of B777 pilots they poached from 9W last year. (my presumption)

Blerg · Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:29 pm

binayak wrote:
Vistara is expected to order six B787s and are currently deciding whether to take the -9/-10 variant.
Might be due to the good number of B777 pilots they poached from 9W last year. (my presumption)

Would these be used for flights to Europe?

CaliguyNYC · Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:53 pm

binayak wrote:
Vistara is expected to order six B787s and are currently deciding whether to take the -9/-10 variant.
Might be due to the good number of B777 pilots they poached from 9W last year. (my presumption)

I hope they take the 789. Gives them flexibility to fly regional and long haul. The Indian market can change on the dime. Good to be prepared.

unrave · Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:45 pm

The acute shortage of parking bays in major airports is benefiting the smaller airports. IndiGo has started parking an aircraft in CJB on a MAA-CJB-MAA rotation, becoming the first carrier to do so. Expect to see more aircraft parked at smaller airports.

sabby · Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:46 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
binayak wrote:
Vistara is expected to order six B787s and are currently deciding whether to take the -9/-10 variant.
Might be due to the good number of B777 pilots they poached from 9W last year. (my presumption)

I hope they take the 789. Gives them flexibility to fly regional and long haul. The Indian market can change on the dime. Good to be prepared.

I don't think range will be an issue with the 787-10. Other than the American continents, everything else is well within the range of the 787-10. In fact, they can even operate the 320Neo to most places in Europe and Asia from DEL. The reason to choose 787-9 is price, but if they can get a good deal and slots for the 787-8, that would be more pragmatic.

globetrotter94 · Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:35 pm

Slash787 wrote:
Vistara should have gone with the A321neo, changing their whole fleet so soon is a pretty weird and a dumb decision, for wide bodies I could have seen them going with the B787-9, but well this is weird.

Not to mention that flying on the 737 completely SUCKS compared to flying on any A320 family aircraft. So, from the POV of a "premium" and "comfort-based" airline, I am getting mixed messages from Vistara now. Shame.

globetrotter94 · Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:38 pm

Slash787 wrote:
binayak wrote:
Slash787 wrote:
The A330 which they are going to use, where is it being used now? or it is the one which they gave on lease? I guess to Turkish Airlines?

Yes it is the one which is currently leased to ...don't know exactly . I had previously heard Air Serbia. However wiki says Turkish Airlines.

3 Aircrafts have been leased to Turkish since 2014

LOL. Yes. Jet Airways seems to make more money as a lessor for TK than as an airline. There were even a couple TK 77Ws flying around with Indian flags for a few years in the early-2010s. Maybe Jet should reevaluate its business model and quit the airlines business and become a leasing company entirely

binayak · Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:46 pm

globetrotter94 wrote:
LOL. Yes. Jet Airways seems to make more money as a lessor for TK than as an airline. There were even a couple TK 77Ws flying around with Indian flags for a few years in the early-2010s. Maybe Jet should reevaluate its business model and quit the airlines business and become a leasing company entirely

Should have said that earlier. :roll:

But now they're doing the reverse.

binayak · Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:50 pm

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 010_1.html

From Tehran to now Bangkok/male !!
Don't know what will happen to this airline.

lightsaber · Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:08 pm

unrave wrote:
The acute shortage of parking bays in major airports is benefiting the smaller airports. IndiGo has started parking an aircraft in CJB on a MAA-CJB-MAA rotation, becoming the first carrier to do so. Expect to see more aircraft parked at smaller airports.

There is a correlary to this. Any expanding hub airport with adequate infrastructure is going to have a disproportionate quantity of crew based there. For example a line that runs (HYD or BLR) to (BOM or DEL) to XXX to (BOM or DEL) to YYY to (BOM or DEL) back to (HYD or BLR). Make up any line you want, but the larger the morning O&D wave is, the greater the number of crew that can be based, so the advantage goes to good O&D metropolitan areas with surplus gates and runway capacity.

Lightsaber

dtw2hyd · Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:12 pm

binayak wrote:
https://www.business-standard.com/article/companies/vistara-plans-to-go-global-may-soon-fly-from-delhi-to-bangkok-colombo-118060801010_1.html

From Tehran to now Bangkok/male !!
Don't know what will happen to this airline.

Have to ask, In July if court issues final ruling on Swamy's PIL about foreign investment rule violation even Vistara is in trouble along with AirAsia India. On top Tony, Mittu and several others on the hook for 5/20 bribery case. Tatas may lose both JVs. Looks like GoI payback to Tatas for not buying AI.

globetrotter94 · Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:40 pm

binayak wrote:
globetrotter94 wrote:
LOL. Yes. Jet Airways seems to make more money as a lessor for TK than as an airline. There were even a couple TK 77Ws flying around with Indian flags for a few years in the early-2010s. Maybe Jet should reevaluate its business model and quit the airlines business and become a leasing company entirely

Should have said that earlier.
But now they're doing the reverse.

How so? The aircraft are still leased, and to interpret your comment in the most literal sense, I do not see TK--or any other foreign airline, for that matter--renting spare aircraft to 9W because they can't do long-haul planning if their lives depended on it.

EK006 · Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:01 pm

binayak wrote:
https://www.business-standard.com/article/companies/vistara-plans-to-go-global-may-soon-fly-from-delhi-to-bangkok-colombo-118060801010_1.html

From Tehran to now Bangkok/male !!
Don't know what will happen to this airline.

The article states that Vistara is negotiating to order upto 60 Airbus A320neo for domestic and short-haul flights. Does this mean the rumors of them switching to an all B737 fleet for short haul no longer true?

dtw2hyd · Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:29 pm

globetrotter94 wrote:
...

How so? The aircraft are still leased, and to interpret your comment in the most literal sense, I do not see TK--or any other foreign airline, for that matter--renting spare aircraft to 9W because they can't do long-haul planning if their lives depended on it.

On airliners-india.net read signature of member the_goat.

globetrotter94 · Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:58 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
globetrotter94 wrote:
...

How so? The aircraft are still leased, and to interpret your comment in the most literal sense, I do not see TK--or any other foreign airline, for that matter--renting spare aircraft to 9W because they can't do long-haul planning if their lives depended on it.

On airliners-india.net read signature of member the_goat.

Hahahaha... that's a good one... But at least AI's "widebodies" are being phased out. Dunno if I can say the same for Jet...

Slash787 · Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:27 pm

binayak wrote:
https://www.business-standard.com/article/companies/vistara-plans-to-go-global-may-soon-fly-from-delhi-to-bangkok-colombo-118060801010_1.html

From Tehran to now Bangkok/male !!
Don't know what will happen to this airline.

Go Air was also supposed to start Tehran, Bangkok and Male, well lets see who does it first.

unrave · Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:39 am

India has turned down China's request to increase bilateal traffic rights from the present 42 weekly services to 90+. In the name of protecting Indian carriers this government continues to be against the interest of Indian fliers.

VTORD · Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:32 am

unrave wrote:
India has turned down China's request to increase bilateal traffic rights from the present 42 weekly services to 90+. In the name of protecting Indian carriers this government continues to be against the interest of Indian fliers.

We (as in Anet ) still debate the increase in bilaterals to AUH and DXB from time to time and that happened ages ago! With the general election just about a year away esp., w/ China it's a gold mine for the opposition to tom-tom during campaign season.

User001 · Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:55 am

According to the below article (towards the end), it states MAN-DEL and MAN-BLR are to be announced soon. If true, likely a 2019 start.

https://inc42.com/features/is-mancheste ... king-west/

unrave · Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:07 pm

IndiGo has announced two new rotations:
PAT-CCU-NAG-CCU-JRH-CCU-DAC-CCU-PAT from 01AUG18
BLR-RPR-BLR-VTZ-BLR-NAG-BLR-JAI-BLR from 05AUG18

Both will be operated by A320
DAC and JRH are new destinations for the airline

CollegeAviator · Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:12 pm

anubhav787 wrote:
Jet Airways is starting a new flight from Lucknow to Allahabad under the UDAN Scheme. The distance is just 200 kilometres by road and the flight time is 1 Hour 5 Minutes by ATR 72. What makes the flight time so long? LKO-DEL takes 50 Minutes for a distance of 500 kilometres by a jet aircraft and 80 Minutes by a turboprop.
Also, would the flight be viable if the time taken by road is 5 hours?

Flight time includes time for start up taxiing at departure airport, and taxiing + shut down till chocks on. That's what constitutes as flight time. Flying time, on the other hand will likely be much lesser.

Case in point: BOM PNQ is scheduled to be 1 hour but in reality flying time could be as less as 17 minutes.

sand26391 · Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:59 pm

User001 wrote:
According to the below article (towards the end), it states MAN-DEL and MAN-BLR are to be announced soon. If true, likely a 2019 start.

https://inc42.com/features/is-mancheste ... king-west/

Interesting if true. Does 9W have extra WB's to fly DEL/BLR-MAN in early 2019? Or will they get any WB leased? No news on the 9W Max routes aswell. How does/will this work out?

User001 · Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:02 pm

I don’t think Jet has the appropriate WB for the new MAN routes, especially with MAN-BOM going daily next summer, but perhaps it has the aircraft to do MAN-BLR and then Air India does DEL (to protect its market share?).

It’s also worth noting that while they don’t yet have the appropriate aircraft, IndiGo has publicly said it wants to serve MAN, and Spicejet last year applied for MAN slots. So, we do have a few options.

Slash787 · Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:07 pm

I assume the three A330's leased to Turkish airlines would be returned by the end of this year and that would be used for MAN OR they would cut down some of their Current A330 routes OR they would finally agree to take their B789's but I don't see them coming before end of 2019 or mid 2020.

Spicejet was supposed to lease some 787's and start Gatwick in 2018, but it seems it din't work out.

User001 · Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:16 pm

If 3 A330’s are due back from Turkish then they could be used to start the other 2 MAN routes.

Spicejet did apply for MAN slots for this summer, SG61/62, but obviously didn’t start due to no suitable aircraft.

Jet does seem the logical one to start the 2 new MAN routes, perhaps DEL 4 weekly and BLR 3 weekly to compliment daily BOM and thus 2 daily overall?

unrave · Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:23 am

The national beggar is back with its begging bowl. AI has requested the government for additional support of Rs 2000 crore.

atal17 · Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:07 am

Slash787 wrote:
I assume the three A330's leased to Turkish airlines would be returned by the end of this year and that would be used for MAN OR they would cut down some of their Current A330 routes OR they would finally agree to take their B789's but I don't see them coming before end of 2019 or mid 2020.

Spicejet was supposed to lease some 787's and start Gatwick in 2018, but it seems it din't work out.

I am not 100% sure on this, but I believe the A330s leased to TK, are no longer owned by 9W - they've been sold to a lessor.

http://www.jetairways.com/documents/Tra ... Q2FY17.pdf

In line with our overall deleveraging strategy we recently sold and leased back two of our 737-800
and have since sold three of A330 aircraft, which were leased out to Turkish Airways for quite
sometime now. These transactions resulted in one time loss of 130 Crores on A330 and one time gain
or 133 Crores on 737 which are reflected in other expenses and other income respectively

sand26391 · Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:02 am

Doesnt look like 9W will launch DEL/BLR-MAN. 9W has No WB available (as of now). Interesting IF it does happen, where will the A/C come from...

dtw2hyd · Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:29 am

I hope Delta is not sidetracked with the ULH publicity and continue to improve 9W fleet and network.

9W badly needs 789s, pronto.

binayak · Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:29 pm

sand26391 wrote:
Doesnt look like 9W will launch DEL/BLR-MAN. 9W has No WB available (as of now). Interesting IF it does happen, where will the A/C come from...

My prediction
DEL MAN. by 6E, SG (3 weekly each)
BLR MAN. by 9W.
However both won't come before mid 2019 .

Slash787 · Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:53 pm

Khalnayak would be very happy to see this

https://www.flickr.com/photos/737max-pr ... 653916692/

binayak · Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:07 pm

Slash787 wrote:
Khalnayak would be very happy to see this
https://www.flickr.com/photos/737max-pr ... 653916692/

This made my day !!
Hope I win their contest and get a chance to view it in their hangar.

Well neo issues have began once more
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 452499.cms

Slash787 · Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:01 pm

atal17 wrote:
I am not 100% sure on this, but I believe the A330s leased to TK, are no longer owned by 9W - they've been sold to a lessor.

http://www.jetairways.com/documents/Tra ... Q2FY17.pdf

Even I am not 100% sure on this, even I read the same thing 1 year or 2 years ago.

So at the moment Jet Airways has 4 A332 and 4 A333.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net