Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

sand26391 · Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:39 pm

Yes A320s! My bad, for a sec I thought 6E has only A320s

dtw2hyd · Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:35 pm

I think folks here are missing the gravity of the situation. But looking at current ICAO scores FAA downgrade is necessary. This is coming from a guy who defended India and got banned from a.net when last time FAA downgraded India.

India 2012 - 2017
Legislation 85.71 - 57.14
Organisation 57.14 - 61.54
Licensing 89.61 - 26.04
Operations 87.7 - 83.45
Airworthiness 91.07 - 89.71
Accident Investigation 75.26 - 32.35
Air Nav 55.78 - 64
Aerodromes 87.42 - 36.6

How could India go down the hill so fast?

unrave · Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:34 pm

2 neos and 1ATR as documented in the orders and delivery thread

binayak · Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:09 pm

Recently bed bugs were spotted in AI EWR BOM flight that too in J class. Few children were bitten too.
This is the one who wants to hold on to its flying rights to LHR although unused.
Politics has truly destroyed the airline. Never was the cleanliness of AI planes questioned till early 2000s.

sand26391 · Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:46 pm

AI... embarassing India worldwide, national Shame indeed.

unrave · Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:06 am

June 2018 domestic traffic figures

June 2018 (June 2017): 11.33m (9.57m) +18.4%
46thconsecutive month of double digit air traffic growth!

YTD June 2018 (YTD June 2017): 68.48m (56.15m) +22%

IndiGo has further consolidated its market share to 41.3%, its highest ever.

Another stellar month/quarter of air traffic growth. IndiGo's results on 30 Jul will tell us how profitable it was.

binayak · Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:49 am

Market share of spicejet and AI are too close. (12.1% &12.5%). So will in next few months SG become third largest Indian carrier? My bets are they will in next month itself.

unrave · Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:29 am

UDAN next round:
Aviation minister has announced in the parliament that in the next round of UDAN 56 unserved and 17 underserved airports as well as 31 heliports will be connected.

But what is the use? It will still be deemed a failure unless it results in a direct flight from DTW to HYD :lol:

binayak · Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:19 am

Recent news say that LH has dropped PNQ flight. is it temporary or permanent?

sand26391 · Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:51 am

Temporary

dtw2hyd · Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:53 am

Interesting to know LH dropped PNQ, I thought India-Europe IT outsourcing/automotive business was increasing?

Maybe Eurowings will pick up this route or LH wants to use the bilaterals somewhere else.

sabby · Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:42 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Interesting to know LH dropped PNQ, I thought India-Europe IT outsourcing/automotive business was increasing?

Maybe Eurowings will pick up this route or LH wants to use the bilaterals somewhere else.

That is probable. I hear that many days the 748 from BLR goes fully packed. May be BLR will finally get the A380 ? Or a second daily to MUC ala BOM/DEL. If they do add a MUC daily to BLR that could free the 748 to ULH routes and have A359/A333 combo. I doubt HYD/CCU have grown enough to get back LH. The MAA A343 can get upgauged as well.

sand26391 · Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:52 pm

No new frequencies will be added, FRA-PNQ will re-start soon probably with a difft A/C apparently.

So here we go, Officially 6E has dropped its WB Long Haul plans. So has SG, now finally we all can stop about these 2 carriers starting WB ops anytime in the next 12-18 months.

IndiGo may delay its low-cost, long-haul flight plan over high fuel price
“No wide-body as of now. Flying long-haul routes with wide-body and filling the planes is a different ball game. Not so soon. The A321 LR is definitely being considered,” said a person who is aware of the plan. The person said that the airline, instead, will increase its international destinations in the Middle East, South East Asia and China. IndiGo will launch flights to Phuket, Istanbul, Abu Dhabi, Hong Kong, Kuwait, Maldives and Kuala Lumpur between October to March. There will be the announcement of more destinations in due course as we have rights to fly into markets like Kuwait, Abu Dhabi, Male, Jeddah and Hong Kong. IndiGo’s focus remains on providing lowest fare travel for the fast-growing Indian market and its close neighbours. The airline has not ordered wide-body aircraft at this time." IndiGo’s rival SpiceJet has also shelved plans of launching flights to London citing high aircraft acquisition cost.

For more: https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 447_1.html

Apparently 1 of the route proposed is BLR-HKG, not sure if A320 can do the route(?) though.

binayak · Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:00 pm

sabby wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Interesting to know LH dropped PNQ, I thought India-Europe IT outsourcing/automotive business was increasing?

Maybe Eurowings will pick up this route or LH wants to use the bilaterals somewhere else.

That is probable. I hear that many days the 748 from BLR goes fully packed. May be BLR will finally get the A380 ? Or a second daily to MUC ala BOM/DEL. If they do add a MUC daily to BLR that could free the 748 to ULH routes and have A359/A333 combo. I doubt HYD/CCU have grown enough to get back LH. The MAA A343 can get upgauged as well.

Any chance of BOM having the 748 year round after this?

binayak · Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:15 pm

sand26391 wrote:

So here we go, Officially 6E has dropped its WB Long Haul plans. So has SG, now finally we all can stop about these 2 carriers starting WB ops anytime in the next 12-18 months.

IndiGo may delay its low-cost, long-haul flight plan over high fuel price
“No wide-body as of now. Flying long-haul routes with wide-body and filling the planes is a different ball game. Not so soon. The A321 LR is definitely being considered,” said a person who is aware of the plan. The person said that the airline, instead, will increase its international destinations in the Middle East, South East Asia and China. IndiGo will launch flights to Phuket, Istanbul, Abu Dhabi, Hong Kong, Kuwait, Maldives and Kuala Lumpur between October to March. There will be the announcement of more destinations in due course as we have rights to fly into markets like Kuwait, Abu Dhabi, Male, Jeddah and Hong Kong. IndiGo’s focus remains on providing lowest fare travel for the fast-growing Indian market and its close neighbours. The airline has not ordered wide-body aircraft at this time." IndiGo’s rival SpiceJet has also shelved plans of launching flights to London citing high aircraft acquisition cost.

For more: https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 447_1.html

Apparently 1 of the route proposed is BLR-HKG, not sure if A320 can do the route(?) though.

Yeh toh hona hi tha!

That "fuel price " thing is just another excuse. LHLCC could've never worked out for an Indian airline the way the taxes are structured here.

BLR HKG if happens will be on an a321LR. That too I think is another PR to scare 9W off. You can't just work with mass capacity dumping for these medium hauls.

dtw2hyd · Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:17 pm

sabby wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Interesting to know LH dropped PNQ, I thought India-Europe IT outsourcing/automotive business was increasing?

Maybe Eurowings will pick up this route or LH wants to use the bilaterals somewhere else.

That is probable. I hear that many days the 748 from BLR goes fully packed. May be BLR will finally get the A380 ? Or a second daily to MUC ala BOM/DEL. If they do add a MUC daily to BLR that could free the 748 to ULH routes and have A359/A333 combo. I doubt HYD/CCU have grown enough to get back LH. The MAA A343 can get upgauged as well.

MUC-BLR is a good idea. Probably will set a new low floor in fares. SkyTeam lowest itineraries include CDG or BLR, so CDG-BLR will be their next move.

Slash787 · Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:37 pm

Man, I had hopes from Indigo, India really does need a low cost airline for Medium to Long Haul. As a budget traveller even If I save Rs. 10 to 15k then it does makes a difference to me.

Well Spicejet is also "planning" to get some WB but even they are saying they still need to figure out the correct Aircraft.

Indigo starting Phuket and Maldives is bad news for GoAir. They were supposed to start those destinations this year but nothing came out of it cause of the A320neo delays and Pilot Shortage.

lightsaber · Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:04 pm

sand26391 wrote:
No new frequencies will be added, FRA-PNQ will re-start soon probably with a difft A/C apparently.

So here we go, Officially 6E has dropped its WB Long Haul plans. So has SG, now finally we all can stop about these 2 carriers starting WB ops anytime in the next 12-18 months.

IndiGo may delay its low-cost, long-haul flight plan over high fuel price
“No wide-body as of now. Flying long-haul routes with wide-body and filling the planes is a different ball game. Not so soon. The A321 LR is definitely being considered,” said a person who is aware of the plan. The person said that the airline, instead, will increase its international destinations in the Middle East, South East Asia and China. IndiGo will launch flights to Phuket, Istanbul, Abu Dhabi, Hong Kong, Kuwait, Maldives and Kuala Lumpur between October to March. There will be the announcement of more destinations in due course as we have rights to fly into markets like Kuwait, Abu Dhabi, Male, Jeddah and Hong Kong. IndiGo’s focus remains on providing lowest fare travel for the fast-growing Indian market and its close neighbours. The airline has not ordered wide-body aircraft at this time." IndiGo’s rival SpiceJet has also shelved plans of launching flights to London citing high aircraft acquisition cost.

For more: https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 447_1.html

Apparently 1 of the route proposed is BLR-HKG, not sure if A320 can do the route(?) though.

I thought Indigo would have made a profit on long haul. Meh... It isn't a bad strategy to

binayak · Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:14 pm

Slash787 wrote:
Man, I had hopes from Indigo, India really does need a low cost airline for Medium to Long Haul. As a budget traveller even If I save Rs. 10 to 15k then it does makes a difference to me.

Well Spicejet is also "planning" to get some WB but even they are saying they still need to figure out the correct Aircraft.

Indigo starting Phuket and Maldives is bad news for GoAir. They were supposed to start those destinations this year but nothing came out of it cause of the A320neo delays and Pilot Shortage.

Well don't lose hopes. Foreign LCCs have started to arrive at Indian airports. Till the govt fixes the taxes, the best thing for an indian carrier will be to have strong partners.

binayak · Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:19 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
MUC-BLR is a good idea. Probably will set a new low floor in fares. SkyTeam lowest itineraries include CDG or BLR, so CDG-BLR will be their next move.

Sorry.... please can you explain that a bit. I'm not able to comprehend properly that why CDG BLR should be ST next move because the lowest itineraries include CDG and BLR?

binayak · Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:26 am

Recently 9W 116 was diverted to Bucharest due to medical emergency. The cabin crew and on board doctors had done a wonderful job. However our Indian media won't cover up that but will instead publish this

https://www.news18.com/news/india/mumba ... 19995.html

VTORD · Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:51 am

binayak wrote:
Recently 9W 116 was diverted to Bucharest due to medical emergency. The cabin crew and on board doctors had done a wonderful job. However our Indian media won't cover up that but will instead publish this

https://www.news18.com/news/india/mumba ... 19995.html

Yeah I read that one. You can run, you can hide but you can't escape Suhel Seth! How does this moron find the time to have an opinion on everything from Mumbai rains to airline diversions :bigmouth:

unrave · Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:52 am

It's been a bumper year for Surat airport. International connections, IndiGo's big bang entry and now 24x7 operations have been permitted.

unnayan · Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:31 am

Have a look at schedule of Surat Airport - hope this is the official site..but time to update

http://suratairport.com/flight_schedule.html

sand26391 · Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:27 am

As of now AIX has proposed STV-SHJ flight. Dont think STV will get a DXB connection though.. esp with slot issues at DXB. But with 24x7 hrs ops STV will get a lot more flights in the coming months!

AirIndia · Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:02 pm

unrave wrote:
It's been a bumper year for Surat airport. International connections, IndiGo's big bang entry and now 24x7 operations have been permitted.

There is going to be a big party in Surat tonight. Bootleggers be alerted!

dtw2hyd · Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:06 pm

Deja Vu All Over Again.

FAA audited India's DGCA between July 16, 2018, to July 20, 2018, following ICAO audit findings. Will submit a written report in 30 days. 90 days to fix issues.
India's DGCA singing same old "very satisfactory" tune.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/aviatio ... it-1887683

unrave · Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:02 pm

Oh no, the FAA has made observations in its audit. Surely this is the end of Indian aviation as we know it.

VTORD · Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:36 pm

unrave wrote:
Oh no, the FAA has made observations in its audit. Surely this is the end of Indian aviation as we know it.

No it's not but surely it should also be cause for concern that India is ranked below Pakistan and Nepal? Clearly the infrastructure is not keeping up with the pace of growth? That's a legitimate point mate.

binayak · Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:53 am

Wow this is great!! Guys remember last time when DGCA had taken records of the number of snags where indigo's had the lowest despite facing neo issues? Now read this
https://m.economictimes.com/industry/tr ... 111737.cms
No wonder that this airline is surviving on its PR and not to mention support from previous govt although it's profitable.

unrave · Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:58 am

binayak wrote:
No wonder that this airline is surviving on its PR and not to mention support from previous govt although it's profitable.

Huh> Do you really believe that IndiGo of all airlines survives on PR?

binayak · Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:55 am

unrave wrote:
Huh> Do you really believe that IndiGo of all airlines survives on PR?

I didn't mean to disappoint you. There are many things on which 6E survives but PR has indeed played a major role in covering up their wrongs. Same thing doesn't happen to others.

dtw2hyd · Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:58 am

binayak wrote:
Wow this is great!! Guys remember last time when DGCA had taken records of the number of snags where indigo's had the lowest despite facing neo issues? Now read this
https://m.economictimes.com/industry/tr ... 111737.cms
No wonder that this airline is surviving on its PR and not to mention support from previous govt although it's profitable.

6E probably has a higher number of older A320s than AI and Air Asia India, including some of the old King Fisher's (supposed to be non-air-worthy) frames per a.net. That must be adding to technical snag count on top of GTF issues. CEO and COO abruptly resigned but everything is awesome.

unrave · Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:21 am

Oh no, IndiGo has seen a couple of C suite exits. Surely this means IndiGo is one the verge of collapse.

binayak · Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:55 pm

unrave wrote:
Oh no, IndiGo has seen a couple of C suite exits. Surely this means IndiGo is one the verge of collapse.

No no. I don't think this news has anything to do with 6E 's existence. Now that they haven't ordered WBs, they'll survive in the foreseeable future.

dtw2hyd · Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:20 pm

Just to give an idea about AI's fleet age

..................................Qty.. Avg(Max) age
Airbus A319..............19 9.8(11.8) Years
Airbus A320-200........9 5.3(8.5) Years
Airbus A320neo........20 0.8(1.5) Years
Airbus A321..............20 9.7(11.2) Years
Boeing 777...............18 7.9(10.8) Years
Boeing 787...............27 4.1(4.5) Years

Fleet avg 6.79 years. Their oldest frame is 11.8 years old.

Scheduled to return/deactivate/store/retire
Airbus A319 3 11.8 Years (SCA/B/C)
Boeing 747 4 23.1 Years
Airbus A320-200 2 24.5 Years (ESE/L)

CaliguyNYC · Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:23 pm

binayak wrote:
Wow this is great!! Guys remember last time when DGCA had taken records of the number of snags where indigo's had the lowest despite facing neo issues? Now read this
https://m.economictimes.com/industry/tr ... 111737.cms
No wonder that this airline is surviving on its PR and not to mention support from previous govt although it's profitable.

Seriously you think indigo survives on PR and ministers. What a cynical pov. Indigo has managed to create a very enviable network in India. Connecting city pairs that many thought would never see regular flights for years. That is how they have thrived. Technical snags rarely make it to the news. India is weird in that a flight gets diverted and there is an editorial in the paper. The press in India seems to be about $$$ (or rather Rs) or you get slammed. Im sure Indigo will turn things around.

dtw2hyd · Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:42 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
The press in India seems to be about $$$ (or rather Rs) or you get slammed.

Depends on how you want to structure the deal, ie., the story to be covered or not to be covered.

It is 650 Euros per month per media group to cover up your bad news. You have to pay more to drum up competitors negative coverage. One has to pay 20 media groups for carpet coverage.

Or pay social media warriors(SMW) at INR 50 per post. I am guessing low-cost social media warriors(LCSMW) charge INR 20 per post. You will get a Digital Influencer to coordinate all social media activity.

In one case morning chow-chow-bath breakfast, afternoon Angus beef burger lunch, and MG Road beer worked well.

unrave · Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:13 pm

When an NRI comments: 100% speculation. 0% facts.

binayak · Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:27 pm

New technology at our airports
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 484975.ece

MrMir · Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:26 am

unrave wrote:
When an NRI comments: 100% speculation. 0% facts.

Please focus on aviation in this thread please. We don't want another thread to get shut down because of the kinda nonsense you keep sprouting.

Interesting factoid I found while looking at LH's ops in India: Every route they operate to India is on a different aircraft, if I'm not mistaken - 380/350 to DEL, 744/330 to BOM, and 748 to BLR.

vadodara · Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:33 pm

unrave wrote:
It's been a bumper year for Surat airport. International connections, IndiGo's big bang entry and now 24x7 operations have been permitted.

True that! And so are airports like Gauhati, Indore and so forth.

vadodara · Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:36 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
binayak wrote:
Wow this is great!! Guys remember last time when DGCA had taken records of the number of snags where indigo's had the lowest despite facing neo issues? Now read this
https://m.economictimes.com/industry/tr ... 111737.cms
No wonder that this airline is surviving on its PR and not to mention support from previous govt although it's profitable.

Seriously you think indigo survives on PR and ministers. What a cynical pov. Indigo has managed to create a very enviable network in India. Connecting city pairs that many thought would never see regular flights for years. That is how they have thrived. Technical snags rarely make it to the news. India is weird in that a flight gets diverted and there is an editorial in the paper. The press in India seems to be about $$$ (or rather Rs) or you get slammed. Im sure Indigo will turn things around.

Well, the last time Air India was a leader when it was the first major airline with an all B707 fleet. Then, it was JRD at helm. Most present day journo's havent seen the risk (and the rewards that come with it) being a leader. Give them some time and space.

unrave · Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:40 pm

MrMir wrote:
unrave wrote:
When an NRI comments: 100% speculation. 0% facts.

Please focus on aviation in this thread please. We don't want another thread to get shut down because of the kinda nonsense you keep sprouting.

Tired of calling out senseless comments.

binayak · Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:41 pm

MrMir wrote:
unrave wrote:
When an NRI comments: 100% speculation. 0% facts.

Please focus on aviation in this thread please. We don't want another thread to get shut down because of the kinda nonsense you keep sprouting.

Interesting factoid I found while looking at LH's ops in India: Every route they operate to India is on a different aircraft, if I'm not mistaken - 380/350 to DEL, 744/330 to BOM, and 748 to BLR.

BOM gets the 748/350 during winter season. Just imagine if without a proper Indian partner they are trying their best to attract Indian pax, what they could've achieved had there been a proper Indian partner of LH group ? I expect Vistara to be it.

unrave · Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:49 pm

binayak wrote:
I expect Vistara to be it.

Unfortunately SQ does not have a history of playing nice with *A partners, and given that both LH and SQ compete for India US traffic, I don't see them coming together.

BawliBooch · Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:53 pm

As per sources, Airforce wants to expand its training school at Belgaum airport and this is causing issues with expansion of civil flights to this airport. HBX which is 70 kms away, is being offered as an alternative airport for 3 cities Hubli, Dharwad & Belgaum. Airforce has offered to vacate its operations at HBX and move completely to IXG. Some airlines have already shifted ops from IXG to HBX (or will do so in the next few months).

IXG got a new terminal building in the civil enclave in 2016 after spending millions. Runway was also expanded to receive A320 aircraft but ran into issues with encroachments in the approach funnel. If the Airforce does takeover IXG for its expanded training base, thats millions of dollars spent on the civil terminal wasted!

BawliBooch · Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:11 pm

The 2 problems with expanding long haul from Pune is a-Runway length - restricted to narrowbody aircraft and b-Slots at a major airforce base.

PNQ/VAPO is a civil enclave in a very large Air force base. Though the terminal in the civil enclave itself has expanded enormously in 10 years, the runway is still the same. LH/PrivatAir 737-800 aircraft are flying non-stop only one way, and refuelling in Bulgaria/UAE on the return.

Second issue is with slots. They are being given slots only on 6 days/week for some reason. On Saturdays, IAF has extra training sorties between 1000 & 1400 hours. Perhaps this was the deal breaker.

IndianAirlines did operate a test flight in the 90's using an A300 to DEL. Air India inaugaral BOM-PNQ-DXB and vv in 2006 was also operated with an A310-300, so widebodies can technically land there. Maybe the runway can be expanded slightly to allow A330 operations to Europe?

If runway expansion doesnt go through, we will have to await PrivatAir/LH acquiring A321LR's for restart of MUC/FRA-PNQ

binayak · Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:59 pm

unrave wrote:
Unfortunately SQ does not have a history of playing nice with *A partners, and given that both LH and SQ compete for India US traffic, I don't see them coming together.

Currently we have another Indian airline which is partially owned by an ME airline but it also has strong partnership with a US airline which can't bare the existence of ME3 .
Conclusion... Everyone wants to have an Indian partner and thus will forget who is your friend or enemy to get it.

vadodara · Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:25 pm

binayak wrote:
I expect Vistara to be it.

So SQ has not had good luck with managing investments/alliances. Its last foray into Virgin was no different. The real issue is SQ has a very limited network. For all its success, it only flies to 60 odd cities with additional cities served by Scoot/Silk Air. Its main business are its non-stops to US/Europe plus as a transfer hub. The transfer business, especially its kangaroo routes, disappeared with the advent of likes of EK. Neither did its alliance with Virgin pan out because in reality, SQ is looking to feed passengers into SIN.

Vistara will work to the extent it cannot afford to expand too fast into wide-bodies. If it is smart, it will pick-up neighboring international routes with narrow bodies and use them to feed traffic to US West Coast/Japan/Oz thru SIN. It will still need a strategy for US E Coast/S America that does not involve SQ.

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