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stevend08
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DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:35 am

In the minutes for this week's board meeting, DFW is set to approve a $20 million deal with AA to redo the terminal E satelite and add 6 additional jet bridges.

https://www.dfwairport.com/apps/board/d ... 05,%202018 (pg 9)

With the 8 gates already at the satelite for narrowbody aircraft this is sounding like gates for AA Eagle as the terminal E satelite's now 14+ gates would be perfect for small RJ jets.
Now that the Terminal B TRIP renovation is complete and all gates are now back, this is sounding like some crazy Eagle expansion planned at DFW.

On top of that in the same document DFW is to study the feasibility of extending the sterile FIS connector in Terminal B further down to gate B6.

The document states that "The extension of the Terminal B/D connector would allow for significant international capacity in
Terminal D during the peak by relocating American narrow body aircraft from Terminal D to Terminal B"

Sounds like the airport is trying to clear space in the lower D gates for more intl carriers in the afternoon?
Now if only they drop some hints on Terminal F ;)
 
jplatts
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:04 am

A connector walkway between Terminal C and Terminal E should be added at DFW if AA plans on operating out of the Terminal E Satellite. There are walkways connecting Terminals A, B, C, and D to each other, but there are no walkways connecting Terminal E to the other terminals. The connector walkway between Terminal C and Terminal E will allow passengers to walk to the other terminals at DFW without having to reclear security in the event of an problem with the Skylink train.
 
Sooner787
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:23 am

jplatts wrote:
A connector walkway between Terminal C and Terminal E should be added at DFW if AA plans on operating out of the Terminal E Satellite. There are walkways connecting Terminals A, B, C, and D to each other, but there are no walkways connecting Terminal E to the other terminals. The connector walkway between Terminal C and Terminal E will allow passengers to walk to the other terminals at DFW without having to reclear security in the event of an problem with the Skylink train.


I suspect a connector walkway will be part of the plans for renovating or rebuilding Terminal C.

Catch is, when will Term C start renovations?
 
stevend08
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:57 am

Sooner787 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
A connector walkway between Terminal C and Terminal E should be added at DFW if AA plans on operating out of the Terminal E Satellite. There are walkways connecting Terminals A, B, C, and D to each other, but there are no walkways connecting Terminal E to the other terminals. The connector walkway between Terminal C and Terminal E will allow passengers to walk to the other terminals at DFW without having to reclear security in the event of an problem with the Skylink train.


I suspect a connector walkway will be part of the plans for renovating or rebuilding Terminal C.

Catch is, when will Term C start renovations?


I don't think C will ever see a full TRIP renovation. Already spent a lot adding new restaurants and shops.
 
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AAlaxfan
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:46 am

For those of us not familiar with the acronym, what is "TRIP"?
 
stevend08
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:04 am

AAlaxfan wrote:
For those of us not familiar with the acronym, what is "TRIP"?


TRIP was the major renovation project of the original terminals at DFW which includes Terminal A,B,C, and E
Terminal C was not renovated as a result of cost overruns.

The project involved closing roughly a third of the terminal down at a time while keep the other two thirds of the terminal operational.
 
ahj2000
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:26 am

AAlaxfan wrote:
For those of us not familiar with the acronym, what is "TRIP"?

Terminal Renovation Improvement Program or something like that. They closed down a section of gates at a time in each of AB and E to modernize. But,of course, not C, the only terminal I ever seem to I fly in/out/through. (Bitter???...definitely not)
 
TXRoadMan
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:45 pm

To be pedantic... "Terminal Renewal and Improvement Program"

Does anyone know what Eagle flights are currently operating out of E? Is it still only the EV CR7s?
 
stevend08
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:46 pm

TXRoadMan wrote:
To be pedantic... "Terminal Renewal and Improvement Program"

Does anyone know what Eagle flights are currently operating out of E? Is it still only the EV CR7s?


Yep..all EV.. I believe all the CR2s are gone now
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:11 pm

When AA began moving into Terminal 2E (now A) in the early 80s, their first priority was getting the connector to 3E (now C) built. In the interim, AA drove the mobile lounges they had briefly used at LGA down to DFW and used them to connect 2E and 3E. IMHO, a connector between the southern end of C and the northern end of E is a must, even if today's Skylink system is more robust than the Airtrans system DFW used in the early 80s. Airtrans was outside the secured area, whereas Skylink operates inside the secure area, but still, a connector building with moving sidewalks is a must.
 
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IrishAyes
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:33 pm

man, that would be a PITA for connections to go from the Satellite at E all the way to another connecting flight at one of the other terminals.

It looks like the only existing carrier using E Satellite is Air Canada (and WestJet during the summer).

Does anyone know which airlines use gates E2, E34 and D5?
 
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william
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:37 pm

millionsofmiles wrote:
When AA began moving into Terminal 2E (now A) in the early 80s, their first priority was getting the connector to 3E (now C) built. In the interim, AA drove the mobile lounges they had briefly used at LGA down to DFW and used them to connect 2E and 3E. IMHO, a connector between the southern end of C and the northern end of E is a must, even if today's Skylink system is more robust than the Airtrans system DFW used in the early 80s. Airtrans was outside the secured area, whereas Skylink operates inside the secure area, but still, a connector building with moving sidewalks is a must.


AA’s AirtAAn was accessed from the secured areas.
 
ChuckSchumer
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:39 pm

IrishAyes wrote:
man, that would be a PITA for connections to go from the Satellite at E all the way to another connecting flight at one of the other terminals.

It looks like the only existing carrier using E Satellite is Air Canada (and WestJet during the summer).

Does anyone know which airlines use gates E2, E34 and D5?
Spirit also uses the satellite for their morning departures.

E2 is a United gate and E34 is an American Eagle gate.

Edit: D5 if I recall is a shared gate. From what I can remember when I pass by it on Skylink I've seen Avianca, Interjet, Volaris, and American use it.
 
AA737-823
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:13 pm

This surprises me.
I am glad that the E Satellite will remain in use- I really like it out there.
But I would figure that AA would strong arm other carriers to move out there, so that they could have the more prime real estate gates in main E.
In the past few years, during TRIP, we've seen Delta out there, and United, and Alaska, and jetBlue if I'm not mistaken, at varying points in the project.
It would make sense, to me, to stick perhaps United and Alaska out there in their own little world, complete with the United Club, and let AA have the E gates that UA/AS had. Or B6, etc.


william wrote:
AA’s AirtAAn was accessed from the secured areas.


...AA's AirtrAAin was built OVER A DECADE after the events he's talking about, by adding stations and tracks to the EXISTING AirTrans system.
You're talking about two different modes of transportation that occupied the same space.
 
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william
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:25 pm

With the stinger added to Teminal A and now AA Eagle taking over the satellite (for us old timer's it will always be the "Delta" satellite), that's some serious increase in operations. Unless the Terminal E operation will be AA main line. Skylink is so efficient and fast it really doesn't matter where at DFW that AA has a gate.
 
OKCDCA
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:31 pm

AA737-823 wrote:
This surprises me.
I am glad that the E Satellite will remain in use- I really like it out there.
But I would figure that AA would strong arm other carriers to move out there, so that they could have the more prime real estate gates in main E.
In the past few years, during TRIP, we've seen Delta out there, and United, and Alaska, and jetBlue if I'm not mistaken, at varying points in the project.
It would make sense, to me, to stick perhaps United and Alaska out there in their own little world, complete with the United Club, and let AA have the E gates that UA/AS had. Or B6, etc.

Agree with you here. Maybe not strong arm, but entice another carrier. Since they’re willing to front the money and be reimbursed by the airport, why not approach UA or DL and just tell them they will pay for everything and maybe throw in some other incentives like building a new lounge.

It’ll be interesting to see how much more flying AA adds from DFW with the extra capacity. Also is there any chance this is pre-emptive move by AA to prevent anybody from expanding at DFW without having to get Terminal F built?
 
AAtakeMeAway
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:01 pm

I didn’t see anything in the minutes about an additional Admirals Club :grumpy:
 
stevend08
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:49 pm

ChuckSchumer wrote:
IrishAyes wrote:
man, that would be a PITA for connections to go from the Satellite at E all the way to another connecting flight at one of the other terminals.

It looks like the only existing carrier using E Satellite is Air Canada (and WestJet during the summer).

Does anyone know which airlines use gates E2, E34 and D5?
Spirit also uses the satellite for their morning departures.

E2 is a United gate and E34 is an American Eagle gate.

Edit: D5 if I recall is a shared gate. From what I can remember when I pass by it on Skylink I've seen Avianca, Interjet, Volaris, and American use it.


E2 is a overflow gate and is mainly unused at the moment. It is technically not a United gate.

D5 is actually a busgate. If you walk down to the end of Terminal D at D6
(which is a shared gate), you'll see gate D6 proper and then right next to the door is "D5". They spent the better half of last year adding the bus gate at the end so that when the future Terminal F ramp is complete this year and those hardstand spaces open up, they have more places to bus pax out.
 
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jsnww81
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:58 pm

That'll sure be a hike from B6 to the FIS facility at the northwest corner of Terminal D.

As for a connector from Terminal C to Terminal E, I wouldn't hold my breath. There's been no conclusive decision about what's going to happen to C... a major investment like a permanent connector won't happen until then. Remember that AA has been operating out of a "temporary" extension at the southern end of C for about 30 years now. The last six or seven gates are modular construction (architecturally very similar to United's lovely concourse at IAD) that was tacked on around 1987-88 and have endured to this day.

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
I didn’t see anything in the minutes about an additional Admirals Club :grumpy:


Agree that if there's going to be Eagle expansion on E, it's time for a club. And perhaps a relocation of the Terminal B club to a spot that's actually convenient for most passengers, too.
 
TXRoadMan
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:05 pm

jsnww81 wrote:
And perhaps a relocation of the Terminal B club to a spot that's actually convenient for most passengers, too.

Of all the times I've taken the Skylink around B, even as late as this week, it just dawned on me... What about all of the upper level space on B? I'm guessing that those were originally BN offices, perhaps they're being used today, but maybe not... Would any of that be a viable space for an AC?

I've said on this very forum that I like the B club, even in spite of its location, but even I'm pretty tired of schlepping it to the stinger now. A relocation to the middle of B would be welcome.
 
khinstorff
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:13 am

OKCDCA wrote:
It’ll be interesting to see how much more flying AA adds from DFW with the extra capacity. Also is there any chance this is pre-emptive move by AA to prevent anybody from expanding at DFW without having to get Terminal F built?


This is a great point. I hope we hear something over the next 12-18 months about F/a C renovation.
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:32 am

william wrote:
millionsofmiles wrote:
When AA began moving into Terminal 2E (now A) in the early 80s, their first priority was getting the connector to 3E (now C) built. In the interim, AA drove the mobile lounges they had briefly used at LGA down to DFW and used them to connect 2E and 3E. IMHO, a connector between the southern end of C and the northern end of E is a must, even if today's Skylink system is more robust than the Airtrans system DFW used in the early 80s. Airtrans was outside the secured area, whereas Skylink operates inside the secure area, but still, a connector building with moving sidewalks is a must.


AA’s AirtAAn was accessed from the secured areas.


Not in those days. AA did not get its own system until around 1991. During the time period I described in my post, the early 1980s, there was one system...the one that was shared amongst all airlines and terminals, AND that one operated on the landslide OUTSIDE security. The ONLY airside Airtrans in those days was the employee side which served all terminals and the North and South Rmployee Parking lots but which, somewhat ingeniously, used the same tracks.

AA developed its own system which operated on the same tracks as the Airport-wide Airtrans but which was accessed on the secure side. This system began operating around 1991. It was at this time that Airtrans service ceased to the employee parking lot and reverted to buses.

I love how people on this forum, in their rush to correct, get it all wrong themselves.
Last edited by millionsofmiles on Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:39 am

AA737-823 wrote:
This surprises me.
I am glad that the E Satellite will remain in use- I really like it out there.
But I would figure that AA would strong arm other carriers to move out there, so that they could have the more prime real estate gates in main E.
In the past few years, during TRIP, we've seen Delta out there, and United, and Alaska, and jetBlue if I'm not mistaken, at varying points in the project.
It would make sense, to me, to stick perhaps United and Alaska out there in their own little world, complete with the United Club, and let AA have the E gates that UA/AS had. Or B6, etc.


william wrote:
AA’s AirtAAn was accessed from the secured areas.


...AA's AirtrAAin was built OVER A DECADE after the events he's talking about, by adding stations and tracks to the EXISTING AirTrans system.
You're talking about two different modes of transportation that occupied the same space.



Thank you, AA 737-823. I guess “William” was too busy looking for ways to correct someone, he forgot to actually read what I wrote. :D
 
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jsnww81
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:21 am

I remember the fanfare when the TrAAm (later renamed the "TrAAin") opened in 1991. The big new secure-side stations were built in open courtyards that had sat between the A, B and C sections of 2E and 3E. They were very early-1990s modern and a sharp contrast from the terminal interiors.

2E and 3E were joined by the connector sometime in the 1982-84 period, but before the TrAAm opened, the options for connecting pax were 1.) make the long walk on foot using the 2E-3E connector or 2.) leave security, go downstairs and ride the Airtrans, then re-clear security. As millionsofmiles said, that was the rationale for adding the infill stations and creating the TrAAm out of one of the existing Airtrans lines.

Of course, the Airtrans-TrAAm was still slow, jerky and prone to breakdowns, so almost immediately it seemed like DFW was talking about adding an upper-level bi-directional people mover, which ultimately became the Skylink that we know and love today.

Fun fact: when DFW opened and for many years afterward, there was a fee to ride the Airtrans. I believe it was dropped at some point in the early-mid 1980s when it became an important conduit for AA connecting passengers. I can remember my parents dropping coins in the Airtrans turnstiles on visits to DFW when I was very young.
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:23 am

jsnww81 wrote:
I remember the fanfare when the TrAAm (later renamed the "TrAAin") opened in 1991. The big new secure-side stations were built in open courtyards that had sat between the A, B and C sections of 2E and 3E. They were very early-1990s modern and a sharp contrast from the terminal interiors.

2E and 3E were joined by the connector sometime in the 1982-84 period, but before the TrAAm opened, the options for connecting pax were 1.) make the long walk on foot using the 2E-3E connector or 2.) leave security, go downstairs and ride the Airtrans, then re-clear security. As millionsofmiles said, that was the rationale for adding the infill stations and creating the TrAAm out of one of the existing Airtrans lines.

Of course, the Airtrans-TrAAm was still slow, jerky and prone to breakdowns, so almost immediately it seemed like DFW was talking about adding an upper-level bi-directional people mover, which ultimately became the Skylink that we know and love today.

Fun fact: when DFW opened and for many years afterward, there was a fee to ride the Airtrans. I believe it was dropped at some point in the early-mid 1980s when it became an important conduit for AA connecting passengers. I can remember my parents dropping coins in the Airtrans turnstiles on visits to DFW when I was very young.


Thank you, jsnww81. I'm enjoying this walk down memory lane with you and AA737-823. I was based at DFW in the Internatiomal operation (IDF) from 1988-1990. Our crew lounge for IDF was on the ramp level in 2E, and the only trips IDF crew would work out of 3E were the two HNLs, flights 5 and 7. It was a long trek over to gate 28 or 29 after we signed in. I recall they when I was based at LGA, our DC-10 trips to LGA and EWR also left from 28 and 29. (During my 3 years at LGA, i mainly flew DFW turns out of LGA and EWR with 4 hour sit times, during which I'd sit with my crew in the Host International coffee shop at the north end of 3E, also long gone.

When I was in tenth grade, my parents sent me to study for two months in Durango, Mexico. I flew AA to DFW (AA295) where I connected to BN51 to MEX. I remember the turnstiles in the Airtrans station, but they appeared to be broken. I had read that it cost a quarter to ride so I was ready with quarters but I didn't need them. By the time I began flying in 1984, the turnstiles were gone. When I was based at SFO from 1987-1988, we also had a lot of sit time at DFW and would go over to the Hyatt for lunch on the Airtrans, The Hyatt East tower (now gone) had a great soda fountain/coffee shop.

Looking back at old terminal maps, it amazes me for how long AA shared 2E with other airlines like Piedmont and Continental. Prior to the Texas International merger, Continental was in 4E with Delta but since 2E was originally Texas Internstional and Frontier, I guess 2E won out. We had to deadhead in November 1984 on Delta from DFW-ABQ, and the gate area's carpeting featured Continental meatballs. This fascinated me. My fellow flight attendants, not so much. Eastern and Lufthansa also remained in 2E for years.

I don't go through DFW much, but whenever I'm at the north end of 3E, I remember with a certain bit of nostalgia the TRAAM station there. By the time the TRAAM started operating, I was at LAX, and remember being bumped back to Domestic, and seeing the TRAAM ststion for the first time. I was impressed.

Just as LGA and EWR DC-10 flights seemed to arrive and depart gates 28 and 29 in 3E, it seemed that when I was based at SFO, we would arrive at gate 23 in 2E, (I only worked the DC-10), and when I went to IDF, I frequently worked 606 to SJU, which came through from LAX, and that was always at gate 23 also. There seemed to be a lot or consistency back then in gate assignments, driven, in part, I guess, by the configuration and wing clearances of certain gates. I seem to remembet the Lufthansa 747 and the AA 747SP, in the 1988-1990 time period, using gates 19 and 20. I may be off by a few gates, though.
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:47 am

The mobile lounges I referred to in a previous post that were employed to shuttle passengers between 3E and 2E prior to the construction of the connector building had an interesting history. AA had purchased them for LGA, and, in fact, had constructed a gate area/holding room in the hangar that would serve several flights at a time. The gate area windows faced the landslide area and on the back wall of the holding room were several doors built into the hangar wall, labelled A, B,C. These were the doorways into the mobile lounges which pulled into the hangar and then transported the passengers to the aircraft on the hard stand.

This was abandoned...and the mobile lounges moved to DFW by the time I started...and I heard a few stories as to why they were a flop at LGA.

Our Flight Service office was moved to the gate area/holding room, and still boasted the signature AA red and blue stripe carpeting of the era.

Those mobile lounges came in handy as a temporary measure at DFW. I sure would have loved to see the armada as they drove from LGA to DFW, unless they partially disassembled them and placed the bodies on flat beds, or something like that.
 
dfdubflyer
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:34 pm

Man that would be a brutal connection to get all the way out to the E satellite if you were short on time. I wonder if there are any routes so heavily o&d they could put those primarily out there?
 
stevend08
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:35 pm

jsnww81 wrote:
That'll sure be a hike from B6 to the FIS facility at the northwest corner of Terminal D.

As for a connector from Terminal C to Terminal E, I wouldn't hold my breath. There's been no conclusive decision about what's going to happen to C... a major investment like a permanent connector won't happen until then. Remember that AA has been operating out of a "temporary" extension at the southern end of C for about 30 years now. The last six or seven gates are modular construction (architecturally very similar to United's lovely concourse at IAD) that was tacked on around 1987-88 and have endured to this day.

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
I didn’t see anything in the minutes about an additional Admirals Club :grumpy:


Agree that if there's going to be Eagle expansion on E, it's time for a club. And perhaps a relocation of the Terminal B club to a spot that's actually convenient for most passengers, too.


Speaking of Admirals Clubs, the Terminal D AC is closing this week for 2 years as they split the current space into a new flagship lounge and admirals club.
 
deltaffindfw
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:45 pm

All this nostalgia of the TrAAin made me look it up on Wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vought_Airtrans
 
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william
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:19 am

millionsofmiles wrote:
william wrote:
millionsofmiles wrote:
When AA began moving into Terminal 2E (now A) in the early 80s, their first priority was getting the connector to 3E (now C) built. In the interim, AA drove the mobile lounges they had briefly used at LGA down to DFW and used them to connect 2E and 3E. IMHO, a connector between the southern end of C and the northern end of E is a must, even if today's Skylink system is more robust than the Airtrans system DFW used in the early 80s. Airtrans was outside the secured area, whereas Skylink operates inside the secure area, but still, a connector building with moving sidewalks is a must.


AA’s AirtAAn was accessed from the secured areas.


Not in those days. AA did not get its own system until around 1991. During the time period I described in my post, the early 1980s, there was one system...the one that was shared amongst all airlines and terminals, AND that one operated on the landslide OUTSIDE security. The ONLY airside Airtrans in those days was the employee side which served all terminals and the North and South Rmployee Parking lots but which, somewhat ingeniously, used the same tracks.

AA developed its own system which operated on the same tracks as the Airport-wide Airtrans but which was accessed on the secure side. This system began operating around 1991. It was at this time that Airtrans service ceased to the employee parking lot and reverted to buses.

I love how people on this forum, in their rush to correct, get it all wrong themselves.


If I offended you I apologize. Yes, your history of Airtans is correct except it debuted when the airport opened in the mid 70s. You stated Airtrans was outside of security and it was except for AA's ingenious use of Airtran for its own purpose which was inside security.
Last edited by william on Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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william
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:29 am

deltaffindfw wrote:
All this nostalgia of the TrAAin made me look it up on Wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vought_Airtrans


The infrastructure for Airtrans is still standing. The right of way is still standing alongside International Parkway in front of Terminal D.
 
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william
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:32 am

jsnww81 wrote:
I remember the fanfare when the TrAAm (later renamed the "TrAAin") opened in 1991. The big new secure-side stations were built in open courtyards that had sat between the A, B and C sections of 2E and 3E. They were very early-1990s modern and a sharp contrast from the terminal interiors.

2E and 3E were joined by the connector sometime in the 1982-84 period, but before the TrAAm opened, the options for connecting pax were 1.) make the long walk on foot using the 2E-3E connector or 2.) leave security, go downstairs and ride the Airtrans, then re-clear security. As millionsofmiles said, that was the rationale for adding the infill stations and creating the TrAAm out of one of the existing Airtrans lines.

Of course, the Airtrans-TrAAm was still slow, jerky and prone to breakdowns, so almost immediately it seemed like DFW was talking about adding an upper-level bi-directional people mover, which ultimately became the Skylink that we know and love today.

Fun fact: when DFW opened and for many years afterward, there was a fee to ride the Airtrans. I believe it was dropped at some point in the early-mid 1980s when it became an important conduit for AA connecting passengers. I can remember my parents dropping coins in the Airtrans turnstiles on visits to DFW when I was very young.


Was the connector built the same time they built the Terminal area control tower?

I have walked from AA Eagles old gates on the north side of 2E to the last gate on the then new 3E extension on the south side of the termainl. I was told it was a mile walk.
 
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jsnww81
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:36 am

millionsofmiles wrote:
Looking back at old terminal maps, it amazes me for how long AA shared 2E with other airlines like Piedmont and Continental. Prior to the Texas International merger, Continental was in 4E with Delta but since 2E was originally Texas Internstional and Frontier, I guess 2E won out. We had to deadhead in November 1984 on Delta from DFW-ABQ, and the gate area's carpeting featured Continental meatballs. This fascinated me. My fellow flight attendants, not so much. Eastern and Lufthansa also remained in 2E for years.


People remember 2W as the "everybody else" terminal (before the honor went to 4E/Terminal E in the late 2000s) but for much of the 1980s it was a shared title between 2E and 2W. 2W had Northwest, USAir, United, Pan Am, Braniff II, Mexicana, Thai, Air New Zealand and Air Canada, all departing from Braniff-decorated gates with globe lamps, big neon gate numbers and leather "saddle" seats. 2E had American in its southern third, but the northern two thirds were home to a whole mess of airlines - Piedmont, Ozark, Midway, TWA, Eastern (who started out in 3E back in 1974), Western, Republic, Frontier, Continental and Lufthansa. The "logo pillars" in the middle of International Parkway for 2E and 2W were always fun to look at.

American started "manifest destiny"-ing its way northward in 2E in the late 1980s, and one by one the airlines there moved across the street. Continental and Eastern were two of the last to move, if memory serves... Eastern was in 2W for only a few short months before they shut down. The same process repeated in 2W about ten years later and all the non-hubbing carriers were sent to 4E. It's crazy to remember what DFW used to be like...
 
N587NK
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:30 am

E2 is a United gate and E34 is an American Eagle gate.

Actually E34 is very much a Spirit gate. I believe American Eagle is gates E35-E38(old US Airways gates)
 
N587NK
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:52 am

OK. I just found out NK no longer uses E34, AA leased it out. NK has E18, E31-E33 plus the satellite when needed
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:02 am

jsnww81 wrote:
millionsofmiles wrote:
Looking back at old terminal maps, it amazes me for how long AA shared 2E with other airlines like Piedmont and Continental. Prior to the Texas International merger, Continental was in 4E with Delta but since 2E was originally Texas Internstional and Frontier, I guess 2E won out. We had to deadhead in November 1984 on Delta from DFW-ABQ, and the gate area's carpeting featured Continental meatballs. This fascinated me. My fellow flight attendants, not so much. Eastern and Lufthansa also remained in 2E for years.


People remember 2W as the "everybody else" terminal (before the honor went to 4E/Terminal E in the late 2000s) but for much of the 1980s it was a shared title between 2E and 2W. 2W had Northwest, USAir, United, Pan Am, Braniff II, Mexicana, Thai, Air New Zealand and Air Canada, all departing from Braniff-decorated gates with globe lamps, big neon gate numbers and leather "saddle" seats. 2E had American in its southern third, but the northern two thirds were home to a whole mess of airlines - Piedmont, Ozark, Midway, TWA, Eastern (who started out in 3E back in 1974), Western, Republic, Frontier, Continental and Lufthansa. The "logo pillars" in the middle of International Parkway for 2E and 2W were always fun to look at.

American started "manifest destiny"-ing its way northward in 2E in the late 1980s, and one by one the airlines there moved across the street. Continental and Eastern were two of the last to move, if memory serves... Eastern was in 2W for only a few short months before they shut down. The same process repeated in 2W about ten years later and all the non-hubbing carriers were sent to 4E. It's crazy to remember what DFW used to be like...



While based at DFW in 1988, a college friend came to visit and I drove her out to DFW for her NWA flight to MEM. Of course, NWA operated out of 2W, and what I found when we arrived made me, as an avgeek, want to cry. The terminal had the BN decor: globe lamps and saddle chairs included, but it all looked REALLY tatty AND the floor was bare concrete in areas. Having flown BN through 2W in 1978 at the outset of the expansion, and having seen it in its heyday, it was really hard to look at, As my friend boarded her NWA DC-9-10 from the nearly deserted terminal, I was transported back in time in mind's eye when every gate would have been filled with one of BN's colorful fleet.

I have an AA DFW terminal diagram from the month I began and it really is shocking to see how little of 2E we had at the time. When I began, large parts of 3E still had the large holding areas serving multiple gates, Each gate only consisted of an entry area off of the terminal corridor. All setting was in the large holding areas down the corridor. This was the original configuration for 3E at DFW. I don't know if 2E was originally configured the same way but when AA moved into it, it had the standard individual gate areas and was far more pleasant than 3E. 2W had individual gate areas, and when I flew there in 1978, each gate had its own security screening, like Kansas City. In the 2W case, you went through the scanner to gain entry to the jetbridge.

I believe Lufthansa was the last of the other airlines to leave 2E. AA handled their FRA-DFW-MEX 747 flight.

When I was based at DFW, Delta was marketing its DFW operation as "Easy Street", in much the same way that Eastern had marketed its MCI hub years earlier.
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:07 am

william wrote:
millionsofmiles wrote:
william wrote:

AA’s AirtAAn was accessed from the secured areas.


Not in those days. AA did not get its own system until around 1991. During the time period I described in my post, the early 1980s, there was one system...the one that was shared amongst all airlines and terminals, AND that one operated on the landslide OUTSIDE security. The ONLY airside Airtrans in those days was the employee side which served all terminals and the North and South Rmployee Parking lots but which, somewhat ingeniously, used the same tracks.

AA developed its own system which operated on the same tracks as the Airport-wide Airtrans but which was accessed on the secure side. This system began operating around 1991. It was at this time that Airtrans service ceased to the employee parking lot and reverted to buses.

I love how people on this forum, in their rush to correct, get it all wrong themselves.


If I offended you I apologize. Yes, your history of Airtans is correct except it debuted when the airport opened in the mid 70s. You stated Airtrans was outside of security and it was except for AA's ingenious use of Airtran for its own purpose which was inside security.


You just can't help yourself, can you? In your zeal to correct someone, you're an epic fail in reading comprehension. Nowhere in any of my posts did I state when the AirTrans debuted. My posts speak of the period during which AA began occupying 2E and beyond. As others have pointed out, you demonstrate an inability to focus on dates.

Then you take MY point about AirTrans operating outside security except for AA's use of the same system for the TRAAIN, and attempt to pass it off as your own, making it appear as if you are correcting me.

Are you for real?
 
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william
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:11 pm

millionsofmiles wrote:
william wrote:
millionsofmiles wrote:

Not in those days. AA did not get its own system until around 1991. During the time period I described in my post, the early 1980s, there was one system...the one that was shared amongst all airlines and terminals, AND that one operated on the landslide OUTSIDE security. The ONLY airside Airtrans in those days was the employee side which served all terminals and the North and South Rmployee Parking lots but which, somewhat ingeniously, used the same tracks.

AA developed its own system which operated on the same tracks as the Airport-wide Airtrans but which was accessed on the secure side. This system began operating around 1991. It was at this time that Airtrans service ceased to the employee parking lot and reverted to buses.

I love how people on this forum, in their rush to correct, get it all wrong themselves.


If I offended you I apologize. Yes, your history of Airtans is correct except it debuted when the airport opened in the mid 70s. You stated Airtrans was outside of security and it was except for AA's ingenious use of Airtran for its own purpose which was inside security.


You just can't help yourself, can you? In your zeal to correct someone, you're an epic fail in reading comprehension. Nowhere in any of my posts did I state when the AirTrans debuted. My posts speak of the period during which AA began occupying 2E and beyond. As others have pointed out, you demonstrate an inability to focus on dates.

Then you take MY point about AirTrans operating outside security except for AA's use of the same system for the TRAAIN, and attempt to pass it off as your own, making it appear as if you are correcting me.

Are you for real?

:o um...ok
 
mhkansan
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:29 pm

I'm glad to see the E satellite utilized for AA flights. The Expressjet flights already have longer MCTs than other AA to AA connections at DFW, it won't be too much harder to program that in for these flights as well. Right now, it is my favorite place to kill a few hours at DFW since there is usually nobody over there and some of the largest and cleanest bathrooms in the airport. This will free up some gates in B to be used for mainline arriving international flights. I believe that B6, the lowest gate not on the connector, is still striped for mainline aircraft already.

I do hope that someday soon an airside connecting walkway is constructed between E and C!
 
deltaffindfw
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:11 pm

Officially approved by DFW Airport Board - 15 total gates in Sat E. AA hopes to be at 900 flights/day at DFW by spring of 2019.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ame ... -satellite
 
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IrishAyes
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:00 pm

jsnww81 wrote:
[quote="millionsofmiles"2W had Northwest, USAir, United, Pan Am, Braniff II, Mexicana, Thai, Air New Zealand and Air Canada, all departing from Braniff-decorated gates with globe lamps, big neon gate numbers and leather "saddle" seats. 2E had American in its southern third, but the northern two thirds were home to a whole mess of airlines - Piedmont, Ozark, Midway, TWA, Eastern (who started out in 3E back in 1974), Western, Republic, Frontier, Continental and Lufthansa. The "logo pillars" in the middle of International Parkway for 2E and 2W were always fun to look at.

American started "manifest destiny"-ing its way northward in 2E in the late 1980s, and one by one the airlines there moved across the street. Continental and Eastern were two of the last to move, if memory serves... Eastern was in 2W for only a few short months before they shut down. The same process repeated in 2W about ten years later and all the non-hubbing carriers were sent to 4E. It's crazy to remember what DFW used to be like...


Ya. It was pretty interesting what developments took place in the late 1990's when AA took over some of the 2W (by then called, "B" gates) and built out a new pier on the south end as well as A-B connector. AA stationed high-frequency, hub-to-hub flights like LAX, ORD, SJC, and RDU from B, presumably as a means for making it easier for high-volume O&D travelers to enter and exit the facilities. Air Canada and UNITED had gates 1, 2-4 in 2W, but shifted those down to 10, while NW moved to E, CO, US, HP, WP, TW, YX, National, Frontier, and others I'm forgetting remained in the lower gates at B. LH, BA, KE, and JL stayed at the lower ends of B. I was surprised that when AF flew to DFW briefly in Summer 2001 that KE did not relocate to E, which would have made much more sense as it would have been co-located with SkyTeam founding members DL, AF, and AM, and there was a FIS in E that was likely not being fully utilized?

It was also interesting to see what changes took place in the early 2000's leading to Delta pulling the plug on their DFW "Easy Street" hub in early 2005. Over the years, DL gradually converted the vast majority of routes from DFW to regional from mainline. I recall back in the early 2000s, you would find mainline to markets like BTR, ELP, JAN, COS, etc. By the mid-2000s, markets like JFK, OAK, and DCA were on RJs. It was nuts! CO had moved to E, but then moved back to B when it switched from SkyTeam to Star. Then, more airlines started to move to E when AA/MQ took over more of B. Continental came BACK to E when UA came over.
Last edited by IrishAyes on Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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chepos
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:06 pm

jsnww81 wrote:
millionsofmiles wrote:
Looking back at old terminal maps, it amazes me for how long AA shared 2E with other airlines like Piedmont and Continental. Prior to the Texas International merger, Continental was in 4E with Delta but since 2E was originally Texas Internstional and Frontier, I guess 2E won out. We had to deadhead in November 1984 on Delta from DFW-ABQ, and the gate area's carpeting featured Continental meatballs. This fascinated me. My fellow flight attendants, not so much. Eastern and Lufthansa also remained in 2E for years.


People remember 2W as the "everybody else" terminal (before the honor went to 4E/Terminal E in the late 2000s) but for much of the 1980s it was a shared title between 2E and 2W. 2W had Northwest, USAir, United, Pan Am, Braniff II, Mexicana, Thai, Air New Zealand and Air Canada, all departing from Braniff-decorated gates with globe lamps, big neon gate numbers and leather "saddle" seats. 2E had American in its southern third, but the northern two thirds were home to a whole mess of airlines - Piedmont, Ozark, Midway, TWA, Eastern (who started out in 3E back in 1974), Western, Republic, Frontier, Continental and Lufthansa. The "logo pillars" in the middle of International Parkway for 2E and 2W were always fun to look at.

American started "manifest destiny"-ing its way northward in 2E in the late 1980s, and one by one the airlines there moved across the street. Continental and Eastern were two of the last to move, if memory serves... Eastern was in 2W for only a few short months before they shut down. The same process repeated in 2W about ten years later and all the non-hubbing carriers were sent to 4E. It's crazy to remember what DFW used to be like...


Not to hijack the thread, but I never knew TG and NZ served DFW. Wow, that is interesting.
 
osupoke07
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:20 pm

deltaffindfw wrote:
Officially approved by DFW Airport Board - 15 total gates in Sat E. AA hopes to be at 900 flights/day at DFW by spring of 2019.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ame ... -satellite


For comparison, based on this 2016 graphic from Delta, Delta operates(ed) at least 960 peak flights per day at ATL. Not sure if there is an updated number anywhere.

https://news.delta.com/hartsfield-jacks ... al-airport
 
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IrishAyes
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:44 pm

chepos wrote:

Not to hijack the thread, but I never knew TG and NZ served DFW. Wow, that is interesting.


Ya :) Some cool history:

Air New Zealand

It flew AKL-PPT-DFW-LGW from 25OCT87 - 29OCT88 on a 747, 1x weekly
It then changed to AKL-HNL-DFW-LGW from 30OCT88 - 21MAR90 on a 747, also 1x weekly

Source: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... n-service/

TG I'm a bit less certain, but it was BKK-NRT-SEA-DFW on a 747 (or A310?)

http://www.experiencetheskies.com/thai- ... -35-years/
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:48 pm

Wow 100 more daily flights that's some serious growth lets start speculating on all the new cities....
 
jetero
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:52 pm

jsnww81 wrote:
Fun fact: when DFW opened and for many years afterward, there was a fee to ride the Airtrans.


There was a fee to use the toilets when DFW opened.
 
OKCDCA
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:20 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
Wow 100 more daily flights that's some serious growth lets start speculating on all the new cities....

No joke! I'm trying to think of what cities are left for AA to connect DFW to. I can think of some places in the far Northeast and Northwest but most of the ones I'm thinking of, at least in the Northeast are only supporting E145's to PHL. Maybe some of the smaller cities in the Southeast that only have CLT service will gain some flights? I do like what the article said about E140 and E145 flights being based out of the satellite, that should keep it from getting too crowded in there. I would assume that these new regional gates should be able to handle any Eagle aircraft should the need arise. Should be interesting to see what happens and I would assume AA is ready to get started on this project right away to be ready for Spring 2019.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:44 pm

Upstate NY, All of New England, Some Canada, Anything left in Mexico? If you move some of the NB Mexico flights to B that's more Wide-body Internationals and then any extra Mainline flying freed up in B. I'm having real trouble thinking of cities? Charleston WVA? I'd assume 100 new flights means at least 20-30 new cities just guessing.
 
Brandon757
Posts: 242
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:50 pm

Yeah, you have to figure this is finally when DFW-BUF starts.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: DFW Terminal E Satelite for AA & More Intl out of B

Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:58 pm

The other possibility is to beef up Dallas to the Caribbean.

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