Qmans
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:20 am

qf002 wrote:
qantas747 wrote:
I would love QF to be a little more interesting across the tasman. Beat NZ to the punch and operate CBR-AKL. Bring back ADL-AKL and go year round to PER.


I agree, particularly with CBR-AKL. It's a route that is going to happen eventually anyway so QF might as well grab the first mover advantage while NZ is preoccupied with other things. It's also a route where QF's two class configuration will give them an advantage over NZ's single class A320s.


Could we see American or United beat both NZ and Qf to the punch and launch a CBR tag flight from either their LAX or SFO Auckland services.
That would make things interesting. Most likely wont happen though but you never know
 
TasFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:29 am

qf002 wrote:
qantas747 wrote:
I would love QF to be a little more interesting across the tasman. Beat NZ to the punch and operate CBR-AKL. Bring back ADL-AKL and go year round to PER.


I agree, particularly with CBR-AKL. It's a route that is going to happen eventually anyway so QF might as well grab the first mover advantage while NZ is preoccupied with other things. It's also a route where QF's two class configuration will give them an advantage over NZ's single class A320s.


I agree too, but please add HBA-AKL to the list!
 
SYDSpotter
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:30 am

Qmans wrote:
Could we see American or United beat both NZ and Qf to the punch and launch a CBR tag flight from either their LAX or SFO Auckland services.
That would make things interesting. Most likely wont happen though but you never know


I highly doubt it, if QF or NZ don't think the current works with 737's/A320's then a 789 won't be feasible.
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angusjt
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:42 am

qantas747 wrote:
I would love QF to be a little more interesting across the tasman. Beat NZ to the punch and operate CBR-AKL. Bring back ADL-AKL and go year round to PER.


ADL/CBR/PER-AKL seem like obvious choices, maybe something a bit more ambitious like SYD-ROT/DUD & HBA-AKL. I also wonder if there's ever been consideration to operate 717s across the Tasman.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:55 am

qf002 wrote:
I agree, particularly with CBR-AKL. It's a route that is going to happen eventually anyway so QF might as well grab the first mover advantage while NZ is preoccupied with other things. It's also a route where QF's two class configuration will give them an advantage over NZ's single class A320s.

I'm surprised NZ didn't come up with AKL-CBR and AKL-HBA as part of their response to the divorce with VA. Other commentators (was it Blue Swan?) seem to think that it's just a matter of "watch this space" regarding these routes being opened by NZ. We'll see. NZ's advantage over QF is that CBR-AKL would feed their Americas routes, while AKL-CBR on QF would feed . . . nothing.
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planemanofnz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:04 am

DavidByrne wrote:
QF would feed . . . nothing.

It's not as a big a feeder hub as NZ would have, but it can hardly be said to be "nothing."

QF can feed the AKL - LAX flight, if the US DOT approves the AA-QF JV in the next few months (perhaps that approval is what QF is waiting for).

There's also JQ's short-haul networks, in addition to other partners, like FJ to NAN / SUV (the latter having government traffic from CBR) and LA.

Image

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C.
 
qantas747
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:27 am

planemanofnz wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
QF would feed . . . nothing.

It's not as a big a feeder hub as NZ would have, but it can hardly be said to be "nothing."

QF can feed the AKL - LAX flight, if the US DOT approves the AA-QF JV in the next few months (perhaps that approval is what QF is waiting for).

Cheers,

C.


CBR-AKL would not be about feed for QF, it would be about expanding capacity in SYD and MEL for peak services that would have been taken by CBR pax. Similar to how the PER route first started for CBR. It opened up key peak capacity on the major markets and helped with yields. AKL could do the same, the only question would be over timing, as perhaps thats why QF wont start, they would rather push the connections through various parts of the day rather than funnel all these pax to the one flight time.

Having said that though, timed right you could have the morning ADL-CBR operate through to AKL and come back in the afternoon to connect with the evening flight. As long as the ADL- CBR sector remained domestic so there wasnt such a need to get to the airport so early, then it could work and be much faster for ADL pax while again opening up capacity for SYD

The 717s would seem like an ideal fit, but AFAIK they are not setup for international or longer overwater ops.
 
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JBusworth
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:39 am

I think that QF needs to have flights out of ADL, CBR and PER to AKL. It would help to create those connections in their network from NZ to Australia and allow them to more effectively compete against AirNZ. I for one think that QF should have international flights out of ADL even if it is just AKL.
 
zkncj
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:44 am

If there is really engough “constant” demand for AKL-CBR wouldn’t NZ and QF be already operating it? They both would have pretty good insights into how many passengers are connecting from/to CBR via SYD and Melbourne.

VA was probably the best to have started it fleet wise, although now with the e190s gone it’s now more limited.

Are VA’s couple of 73G’s ETOPS rated? Maybe with an upgraded J product they could be useful for AKl-CBR.

On something like? AKL-CBR-WLG-CBR-AKL
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:46 am

JBusworth wrote:
I think that QF needs to have flights out of ADL, CBR and PER to AKL. It would help to create those connections in their network from NZ to Australia and allow them to more effectively compete against AirNZ. I for one think that QF should have international flights out of ADL even if it is just AKL.


I do strugggle to see how QF can’t make AKl-PER work year round, Is NZ now doing CHC-PER year round?
 
kriskim
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:06 am

zkncj wrote:
JBusworth wrote:
I think that QF needs to have flights out of ADL, CBR and PER to AKL. It would help to create those connections in their network from NZ to Australia and allow them to more effectively compete against AirNZ. I for one think that QF should have international flights out of ADL even if it is just AKL.


I do strugggle to see how QF can’t make AKl-PER work year round, Is NZ now doing CHC-PER year round?


Different dynamics, NZ can connect PER pax with its hub at AKL connecting onwards to Nth America and Sth America as well as the Pacific, thus creating more demand. QF already does the same thing, but via SYD and MEL. For AKL pax, QF can only offer onwards connections to LHR, however with possible flights to JNB and CDG planned, it might change for QF. At the moment QF is mainly catering for O&D traffic.
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TasFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:14 am

qantas747 wrote:

The 717s would seem like an ideal fit, but AFAIK they are not setup for international or longer overwater ops.


The 717 was operated successfully by JQ domestically on HBA-BNE, which is 965nm; CBR-AKL is 1244nm, and HBA-AKL is 1301nm.
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:26 am

vhebb wrote:
That EK B77W SYD changes dont make sense, the departure from SYD is before the aircraft arrives?


EK seems to be playing things smart by realizing when there is too much capacity in the market and adjusting accordingly.

It’s 4th daily into SYD with an A380 was ambitious, especially along with the other moves by EY and QR to expand their SYD presence around the same time.

I still think EY is most vulnerable in the market, but it has far less options overall than EK, which can instead choose to move aircraft across a far larger network when it needs to.

EK has also shown that it is nimble in its moves in BNE, pulling back where it needs to until it feels the market has adjusted accordingly.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:57 am

TasFlyer wrote:
qantas747 wrote:

The 717s would seem like an ideal fit, but AFAIK they are not setup for international or longer overwater ops.


The 717 was operated successfully by JQ domestically on HBA-BNE, which is 965nm; CBR-AKL is 1244nm, and HBA-AKL is 1301nm.


It’s not the range that is an issue, apparently he aircraft aren’t equipped with life rafts (?) or some other equipment required for extended overwater flights (crossing the Bass Straight does not require an overwater equipped aircraft).
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:06 am

IndianicWorld wrote:
vhebb wrote:
That EK B77W SYD changes dont make sense, the departure from SYD is before the aircraft arrives?


EK seems to be playing things smart by realizing when there is too much capacity in the market and adjusting accordingly.

It’s 4th daily into SYD with an A380 was ambitious, especially along with the other moves by EY and QR to expand their SYD presence around the same time.

I still think EY is most vulnerable in the market, but it has far less options overall than EK, which can instead choose to move aircraft across a far larger network when it needs to.

EK has also shown that it is nimble in its moves in BNE, pulling back where it needs to until it feels the market has adjusted accordingly.


A fourth A380 wasn’t particularly ambitious given that it replaced QF1/2 almost seat-for-seat. The problem is that the banks fed by EK416/417 is their smallest and that therefore limits demand. From a yield perspective they need a second flight flying wingtip-to-wingtip with EK412/313, but 15 hours down time is highly inefficient which is why they have quite neatly segmented the market into 3: (1) EK412/413 which is pretty consistently the most expensive*, (2) EK418/419 which offer similar times but via BKK which picks up more value conscious traffic, (3) EK414/415 and EK416/417 which sit somewhere in the middle, with relatively less desirable times but direct.

*EK do not offer T fares in Economy and O fares in Business (O in Economy or I in Business if sold via Qantas) on EK413, EK407 and EK435. Low yield traffic is quite literally barred from these services.

Etihad and Qatar would kill to have that much pricing power. It shows just how dominant Emirates is in this market, both through the strength of their own brand and via the Qantas partnership.
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Milesdependent
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:22 am

Anyone know if it’s possible to book a revenue flight on the QF a320s in WA, or are they just being used for mining charters?
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:28 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:
vhebb wrote:
That EK B77W SYD changes dont make sense, the departure from SYD is before the aircraft arrives?


EK seems to be playing things smart by realizing when there is too much capacity in the market and adjusting accordingly.

It’s 4th daily into SYD with an A380 was ambitious, especially along with the other moves by EY and QR to expand their SYD presence around the same time.

I still think EY is most vulnerable in the market, but it has far less options overall than EK, which can instead choose to move aircraft across a far larger network when it needs to.

EK has also shown that it is nimble in its moves in BNE, pulling back where it needs to until it feels the market has adjusted accordingly.


A fourth A380 wasn’t particularly ambitious given that it replaced QF1/2 almost seat-for-seat. The problem is that the banks fed by EK416/417 is their smallest and that therefore limits demand. From a yield perspective they need a second flight flying wingtip-to-wingtip with EK412/313, but 15 hours down time is highly inefficient which is why they have quite neatly segmented the market into 3: (1) EK412/413 which is pretty consistently the most expensive*, (2) EK418/419 which offer similar times but via BKK which picks up more value conscious traffic, (3) EK414/415 and EK416/417 which sit somewhere in the middle, with relatively less desirable times but direct.

*EK do not offer T fares in Economy and O fares in Business (O in Economy or I in Business if sold via Qantas) on EK413, EK407 and EK435. Low yield traffic is quite literally barred from these services.

Etihad and Qatar would kill to have that much pricing power. It shows just how dominant Emirates is in this market, both through the strength of their own brand and via the Qantas partnership.


From SYD, given that QF still has their daily A380 flights going via SIN to LHR, along with the upgauges to EY and QR’s 2nd daily, I disagree that starting the 4th daily with an A380 from the start wasn’t particularly ambitious. This move just shows that it was considered a bit of a misstep so early, but it will manage its capacity on the route in light of that.

The good thing as you state though is that EK is in a far stronger position to control yields, whereas EY in particular now has quite a weak position to fill its flights.

Moves like this just show that EK is willing to make changes m where it can to maximise its opportunities to make money, instead of just choosing to fight for every last passenger to fill seats.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:44 am

zkncj wrote:
I do strugggle to see how QF can’t make AKl-PER work year round, Is NZ now doing CHC-PER year round?

CHC-PER is scheduled for a five-month season from early Dec to April some time IIRC. I think that’s an extension over previous years?
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BAeRJ100
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:54 am

Milesdependent wrote:
Anyone know if it’s possible to book a revenue flight on the QF a320s in WA, or are they just being used for mining charters?


It's bookable via the QF website. A quick search for tomorrow shows it operating PER-KTA as QF1650.
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:14 pm

zkncj wrote:
JBusworth wrote:
I think that QF needs to have flights out of ADL, CBR and PER to AKL. It would help to create those connections in their network from NZ to Australia and allow them to more effectively compete against AirNZ. I for one think that QF should have international flights out of ADL even if it is just AKL.


I do strugggle to see how QF can’t make AKl-PER work year round, Is NZ now doing CHC-PER year round?


As I have pointed out many times before PER-AKL is quite seasonal. NZ does not offer a daily service year round to PER. Again in May that will drop down to 6 weekly. Having 2 carriers on the route during the winter months would trash yields. However saying that it would be nice to see QF on the PER-AKL route on a more regular basis, NZ has had it far too good on the route for too long not to mention this past summer the service from NZ was unreliable at best
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:25 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
qf789 wrote:
VA to increase flights to NZ

SYD-AKL to go 3 daily on weekdays, 2 daily on weekends

MEL-AKL increases from 11 weekly to double daily

BNE-AKL 2 daily except Saturday’s, third flight will operate Monday mornings one way and Friday evenings the other way

MEL-CHC goes from 4 weekly to a daily service

MEL-ZQN new service 3 weekly, 4 weekly during busier periods

SYD-WLG new service 4 weekly

BNE-WLG reduced from 2 daily to 9 weekly

All other routes no change

https://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-austral ... ource=hero

Good luck to VA, but they're in a "quadruple whammy" situation right now:

* Increased capacity by NZ will put pressure on them
* Loss of pax booked on VA flights by NZ will reduce their loads (at the same time that they're increasing capacity)
* Some of the VA-booked pax will at the same time defect to QF because the offering is not going to be nearly as convenient as the VA/NZ JV offered.
* And now, with the decision to increase their offering significantly, they've got a whole lot more seats to fill that they need to find pax for

I don't know how good the VA marketing strategy is in Australia, but I can assure you that here in NZ there is almost zero VA marketing in major newspapers, radio, TV etc. If they want to attract NZers to fill these new flights (and to fill up the old ones as well) then they have a serious marketing and image issue to get on with.

As I say, good luck to them. But I think it will be a very difficult task to get themselves independently established on the Tasman.


Marketing in newspapers, radio and TV is no where near as effective as what it use to be so I think you need to look at the bigger picture. Today businesses of all sizes market through the internet such as google ads, facebook, twitter, own website, etc which are far more effective than newspapers, radio or TV. Today people are online all the time whether it be on their phones, tablets, computers etc and personally have seen through my own business most business today comes in online, not through print media or radio or TV.
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planemanofnz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:29 pm

qf789 wrote:
As I have pointed out many times before PER-AKL is quite seasonal.

I see potential for QF to be year-round, because if the AA-QF JV is approved, AKL - LAX will likely go year-round, and we might see AKL - DFW, to support PER - AKL's feed. Further, once QF builds up its PER hub with a few more flights after LHR, like JNB, CDG and FRA, there will be more AKL feed too. These connections neaturalise the seasonality of O&D traffic.

I also note that:

1. Yield may be improving, as business traffic from WA to New Zealand surged by ~18% in 2017 (albeit with overall WA visitor arrivals to New Zealand declining in 2017).
2. Only ~50% of WA visitor arrivals to New Zealand use non-stop services - the rest transit in the likes of SYD (likely on QF), so QF could push them on a non-stop flight.

See: https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-r ... ember-2017.

Cheers,

C.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:10 pm

qf789 wrote:
Marketing in newspapers, radio and TV is no where near as effective as what it use to be so I think you need to look at the bigger picture. Today businesses of all sizes market through the internet such as google ads, facebook, twitter, own website, etc which are far more effective than newspapers, radio or TV. Today people are online all the time whether it be on their phones, tablets, computers etc and personally have seen through my own business most business today comes in online, not through print media or radio or TV.

Maybe VA already use social media etc to market - but I don't see it in what I view online. Irrespective, I believe they have a mountain to climb in building an image in New Zealand as a go-to carrier, which they need to do, given the capacity increases now in the market. and the fact that they currently provide 30% of the JV capacity but sell only 20% of the fares. Presumably they sell more than 20% of the fares in Australia, but that would mean they sell less than 20% in New Zealand. Good luck to them; they'll need it!
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sq256
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:54 pm

VA also carries the DL and (shortly) HX and HU codes as codeshare partners on a number of Trans-Tasman flights. I do wonder what % of traffic from DL is on VA metal for Trans-Tasman flights.
 
georgiabill
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:18 pm

Could QF'S 744ER'S do SYD-IST-SYD without taking a significant payload hit? Is there a large enough market to justify a 3x or 4x service?

With AI flying DEL-MEL-SYD-DEL and DEL-SYD-MEL-DEL service is there room for QF to enter the market?
 
zkncj
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:04 pm

kriskim wrote:
I do strugggle to see how QF can’t make AKl-PER work year round, Is NZ now doing CHC-PER year round?


Different dynamics, NZ can connect PER pax with its hub at AKL connecting onwards to Nth America and Sth America as well as the Pacific, thus creating more demand. QF already does the same thing, but via SYD and MEL. For AKL pax, QF can only offer onwards connections to LHR, however with possible flights to JNB and CDG planned, it might change for QF. At the moment QF is mainly catering for O&D traffic.[/quote]

Maybe its more of an route for JQ when they get there A321NEO's?
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:59 pm

georgiabill wrote:
Could QF'S 744ER'S do SYD-IST-SYD without taking a significant payload hit? Is there a large enough market to justify a 3x or 4x service?

With AI flying DEL-MEL-SYD-DEL and DEL-SYD-MEL-DEL service is there room for QF to enter the market?


No and no.

SYD-IST would be, by far, the longest flight in te world. It’s almost 300mi further than DOH-AKL and only about 150mi shorter than a hypothetical SIN-JFK. The 747-400ER doesn’t come close to having the range, this is 777-200LR or A350-900ULR territory. I doubt that even 787-9 could do it. Even if it was possible the demand isn’t there. Turkey is a relatively small market from Australia and without feed from the rest of Europe it would simply not work.

Notwithstanding that Air India have flown DEL-SYD-DEL or DEL-MEL-DEL as standalone flights for several years now, there is no sense in Qantas (or anyone else) flying Australia-India non-stop. This is a very large market, but the demand is not centered in any one market. On the Australian end it is distributed between SYD, MEL, BNE, PER etc and on the Indian end between DEL, BOM, BLR, MAA etc. Therefore no one route has particularly high demand. The most efficient way to serve the market is therefore the current approach of running a scissor hub over SIN, which Qantas do in partnership with 9W.
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redroo
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:22 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
georgiabill wrote:
Could QF'S 744ER'S do SYD-IST-SYD without taking a significant payload hit? Is there a large enough market to justify a 3x or 4x service?

With AI flying DEL-MEL-SYD-DEL and DEL-SYD-MEL-DEL service is there room for QF to enter the market?


No and no.

SYD-IST would be, by far, the longest flight in te world. It’s almost 300mi further than DOH-AKL and only about 150mi shorter than a hypothetical SIN-JFK. The 747-400ER doesn’t come close to having the range, this is 777-200LR or A350-900ULR territory. I doubt that even 787-9 could do it. Even if it was possible the demand isn’t there. Turkey is a relatively small market from Australia and without feed from the rest of Europe it would simply not work.

Notwithstanding that Air India have flown DEL-SYD-DEL or DEL-MEL-DEL as standalone flights for several years now, there is no sense in Qantas (or anyone else) flying Australia-India non-stop. This is a very large market, but the demand is not centered in any one market. On the Australian end it is distributed between SYD, MEL, BNE, PER etc and on the Indian end between DEL, BOM, BLR, MAA etc. Therefore no one route has particularly high demand. The most efficient way to serve the market is therefore the current approach of running a scissor hub over SIN, which Qantas do in partnership with 9W.


I’ve often thought QF could make a go of Perth to India and funnel everyone through Perth... but it’s notoriously low yield.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:47 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
TasFlyer wrote:
qantas747 wrote:

The 717s would seem like an ideal fit, but AFAIK they are not setup for international or longer overwater ops.


The 717 was operated successfully by JQ domestically on HBA-BNE, which is 965nm; CBR-AKL is 1244nm, and HBA-AKL is 1301nm.


It’s not the range that is an issue, apparently he aircraft aren’t equipped with life rafts (?) or some other equipment required for extended overwater flights (crossing the Bass Straight does not require an overwater equipped aircraft).


Correct - the B717 is only approved (at type certificate level) to operate up to 60 minutes from a suitable diversion field. On a Tasman crossing, this requirement adds a considerable amount of extra flying - it basically means a CBR/HBA - AKL service would have to fly overhead SYD then take a relatively northerly routing to stay close to NLK. I did have some rough maps showing this, but sadly lost them with a drive failure a few months ago. From memory, it would add around 45-60 minutes flying time to a CBR-AKL.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:48 am

Last nights CX138 SYD-HKG diverted to CNS squawking 7700

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/statu ... 1182265344
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CHI2DFW
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:06 am

With regards to new BNE-US routes, what do SEA and DFW offer at BNE? QF does DFW-SYD and could easily do SEA-SYD with current equipment.

NZ has already announced ORD with UA. QF would fall further behind if they wait 3-5 years for ORD. QF started DFW via BNE westbound initially.

I can see SEA-SYD due to AS.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:14 am

IMHO Air NZ's announce trans-tasman flight changes aren't nearly enough additional capacity, and I think NZ have much more to come.
Under the JV both NZ and VA stated or implied that VA contributed 30% of the capacity, but only 20% of the revenue. Air NZ's additional capacity amounts to about a 15% increase in seat numbers... shouldn't this be more like 20-30% increase in an attempt to put capacity pressure on VA and QF?
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:47 am

CHI2DFW wrote:
With regards to new BNE-US routes, what do SEA and DFW offer at BNE? QF does DFW-SYD and could easily do SEA-SYD with current equipment.

NZ has already announced ORD with UA. QF would fall further behind if they wait 3-5 years for ORD. QF started DFW via BNE westbound initially.

I can see SEA-SYD due to AS.


DFW offers connections through AA's megahub which is something LAX simply can't match in terms of its breadth. There also aren't many places you can't get to from DFW so ORD doesn't add anything substantial to QF's North American network that isn't already covered by DFW. Added to that, having multiple flights into DFW gives redundancy in case something goes wrong with one of the flights.

Now that we have MEL-SFO coming online year round I'd like to see both MEL and BNE connected through to DFW before QF adds another US destination. That means QF will have:

- SYD/MEL/BNE - LAX
- SYD/MEL/BNE - DFW
- SYD/MEL - SFO
- LAX - JFK

If anything I'd like to see QF add YVR year round from BNE using the spare 789 capacity they have coming on board.
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 5082
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:22 am

The next QF A380 going in for repaint will be -OQL. Aircraft will ferry to DXB on the 21st of April after operating the SYD-SIN QF81.

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
TasFlyer
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:55 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:39 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
TasFlyer wrote:

The 717 was operated successfully by JQ domestically on HBA-BNE, which is 965nm; CBR-AKL is 1244nm, and HBA-AKL is 1301nm.


It’s not the range that is an issue, apparently he aircraft aren’t equipped with life rafts (?) or some other equipment required for extended overwater flights (crossing the Bass Straight does not require an overwater equipped aircraft).


Correct - the B717 is only approved (at type certificate level) to operate up to 60 minutes from a suitable diversion field. On a Tasman crossing, this requirement adds a considerable amount of extra flying - it basically means a CBR/HBA - AKL service would have to fly overhead SYD then take a relatively northerly routing to stay close to NLK. I did have some rough maps showing this, but sadly lost them with a drive failure a few months ago. From memory, it would add around 45-60 minutes flying time to a CBR-AKL.


Something like this (had to put the 60min ETOPS/400nm around NLK manually):

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=AKL-HBA%2FCBR%0D%0ANLK&R=400nm%40NLK&MS=wls&DU=mi&E=60&EV=397&EU=kts
 
TN486
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:08 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:26 am

^^ Noting that NLK is notorious for horrible weather, is it a really good idea to offer NLK as an alternate??
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
User avatar
angusjt
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:08 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:18 am

TasFlyer wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:

It’s not the range that is an issue, apparently he aircraft aren’t equipped with life rafts (?) or some other equipment required for extended overwater flights (crossing the Bass Straight does not require an overwater equipped aircraft).


Correct - the B717 is only approved (at type certificate level) to operate up to 60 minutes from a suitable diversion field. On a Tasman crossing, this requirement adds a considerable amount of extra flying - it basically means a CBR/HBA - AKL service would have to fly overhead SYD then take a relatively northerly routing to stay close to NLK. I did have some rough maps showing this, but sadly lost them with a drive failure a few months ago. From memory, it would add around 45-60 minutes flying time to a CBR-AKL.


Something like this (had to put the 60min ETOPS/400nm around NLK manually):

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=AKL-HBA%2FCBR%0D%0ANLK&R=400nm%40NLK&MS=wls&DU=mi&E=60&EV=397&EU=kts


Could LDH work as a diversion airport? I'm aware it's not very big and its only about 900m long but adding it to the map it made CBR-AKL look more feasible.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=AKL-CBR%0D%0AWLG-CBR%0D%0ANLK%0D%0ALDH&R=400nm%40NLK%0D%0A400nm%40LDH&MS=wls&DU=mi&E=60&EV=397&EU=kts
 
DeltaB717
Posts: 1467
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:20 am

TN486 wrote:
^^ Noting that NLK is notorious for horrible weather, is it a really good idea to offer NLK as an alternate??


Well, no! Which just strengthens my case that the B717, as much as I love them, isn't the aircraft for trans-Tasman. If NLK is excluded as an alternate, then the B717 could not be flown across the Tasman without a change to its type certificate, and there's no chance of that happening.
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:07 am

angusjt wrote:
TasFlyer wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:

Correct - the B717 is only approved (at type certificate level) to operate up to 60 minutes from a suitable diversion field. On a Tasman crossing, this requirement adds a considerable amount of extra flying - it basically means a CBR/HBA - AKL service would have to fly overhead SYD then take a relatively northerly routing to stay close to NLK. I did have some rough maps showing this, but sadly lost them with a drive failure a few months ago. From memory, it would add around 45-60 minutes flying time to a CBR-AKL.


Something like this (had to put the 60min ETOPS/400nm around NLK manually):

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=AKL-HBA%2FCBR%0D%0ANLK&R=400nm%40NLK&MS=wls&DU=mi&E=60&EV=397&EU=kts


Could LDH work as a diversion airport? I'm aware it's not very big and its only about 900m long but adding it to the map it made CBR-AKL look more feasible.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=AKL-CBR%0D%0AWLG-CBR%0D%0ANLK%0D%0ALDH&R=400nm%40NLK%0D%0A400nm%40LDH&MS=wls&DU=mi&E=60&EV=397&EU=kts


If flying a Dash 8- 200.

QF keep the 200 in the fleet for Lord Howe.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 1828
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:04 am

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-temasek-holdings-hna-group-airlines-e/exclusive-singapores-temasek-interested-in-buying-into-hnas-hong-kong-airlines-source-idUSKBN1HO0IX

Interesting potential here. SQ are reportedly doing due diligence on HNA with a view in taking a significant though not majority stake. Obviously the main game here is HKG slots but it would also mean that SQ would increase their boardroom influence with VA. At the moment it seems this wouldn't be a big change as SQ are still supportive of the current board and management but it would mean SQ would have a greater say in any privatisation and subsequent control.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 789, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
Qantas16
Posts: 525
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:43 am

angusjt wrote:
TasFlyer wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:

Correct - the B717 is only approved (at type certificate level) to operate up to 60 minutes from a suitable diversion field. On a Tasman crossing, this requirement adds a considerable amount of extra flying - it basically means a CBR/HBA - AKL service would have to fly overhead SYD then take a relatively northerly routing to stay close to NLK. I did have some rough maps showing this, but sadly lost them with a drive failure a few months ago. From memory, it would add around 45-60 minutes flying time to a CBR-AKL.


Something like this (had to put the 60min ETOPS/400nm around NLK manually):

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=AKL-HBA%2FCBR%0D%0ANLK&R=400nm%40NLK&MS=wls&DU=mi&E=60&EV=397&EU=kts


Could LDH work as a diversion airport? I'm aware it's not very big and its only about 900m long but adding it to the map it made CBR-AKL look more feasible.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=AKL-CBR%0D%0AWLG-CBR%0D%0ANLK%0D%0ALDH&R=400nm%40NLK%0D%0A400nm%40LDH&MS=wls&DU=mi&E=60&EV=397&EU=kts


No. A 717 could not safely land / take off from LDH so it certainly could not be a diversion airport. It will be 737's or nothing for HBA/CBR/ADL-AKL.
 
SYDSpotter
Posts: 706
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:10 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:36 am

tullamarine wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-temasek-holdings-hna-group-airlines-e/exclusive-singapores-temasek-interested-in-buying-into-hnas-hong-kong-airlines-source-idUSKBN1HO0IX

Interesting potential here. SQ are reportedly doing due diligence on HNA with a view in taking a significant though not majority stake. Obviously the main game here is HKG slots but it would also mean that SQ would increase their boardroom influence with VA. At the moment it seems this wouldn't be a big change as SQ are still supportive of the current board and management but it would mean SQ would have a greater say in any privatisation and subsequent control.


It's Temasek and not SQ looking at the stake according to the article, yes Temasek is a majority owner in SQ but this potential investment isn't necessarily linked to SQ. One can be sure that CX will come out swinging if SQ is anywhere near this if the Jetstar HK experience is anything to go by.
319_320_321_332_333_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W_789
 
sq256
Posts: 270
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:53 am

tullamarine wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-temasek-holdings-hna-group-airlines-e/exclusive-singapores-temasek-interested-in-buying-into-hnas-hong-kong-airlines-source-idUSKBN1HO0IX

Interesting potential here. SQ are reportedly doing due diligence on HNA with a view in taking a significant though not majority stake. Obviously the main game here is HKG slots but it would also mean that SQ would increase their boardroom influence with VA. At the moment it seems this wouldn't be a big change as SQ are still supportive of the current board and management but it would mean SQ would have a greater say in any privatisation and subsequent control.


Don't get too excited. It is not SQ that's interested.
It's actually SQ's parent company Temasek that's interested and SQ is not associated with their parent company's interest in HX.

SQ has had many chances in the past to invest more in VA in the past and they have not taken those opportunities, strongly suggesting they are either happy with the status quo or are planning to draw down without withdrawing entirely from their VA stake.

Reuters wrote:
A second source familiar with the matter said HNA is looking to raise funds for the Hong Kong airlines and Temasek is a potential investor.

Buying into the Hong Kong airlines would help Temasek get an aviation foothold closer to mainland China, in a market dominated by Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd (0293.HK).

Temasek is the majority shareholder in Singapore Airlines Ltd (SIAL.SI), which sources said was not associated with the potential investment in the Hong Kong airlines
 
c933103
Posts: 2340
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:23 pm

tullamarine wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-temasek-holdings-hna-group-airlines-e/exclusive-singapores-temasek-interested-in-buying-into-hnas-hong-kong-airlines-source-idUSKBN1HO0IX

Interesting potential here. SQ are reportedly doing due diligence on HNA with a view in taking a significant though not majority stake. Obviously the main game here is HKG slots but it would also mean that SQ would increase their boardroom influence with VA. At the moment it seems this wouldn't be a big change as SQ are still supportive of the current board and management but it would mean SQ would have a greater say in any privatisation and subsequent control.

Seems like HNA currently only indirectly hold 27% stake in HX?
 
DeltaB717
Posts: 1467
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:20 am

Philippine Airlines has re-announced 4x weekly A321neo service MNL-BNE, effective 2 July 2018, and replacing the current 3x weekly A343 service.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... july-2018/
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 640
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:43 am

c933103 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-temasek-holdings-hna-group-airlines-e/exclusive-singapores-temasek-interested-in-buying-into-hnas-hong-kong-airlines-source-idUSKBN1HO0IX

Interesting potential here. SQ are reportedly doing due diligence on HNA with a view in taking a significant though not majority stake. Obviously the main game here is HKG slots but it would also mean that SQ would increase their boardroom influence with VA. At the moment it seems this wouldn't be a big change as SQ are still supportive of the current board and management but it would mean SQ would have a greater say in any privatisation and subsequent control.

Seems like HNA currently only indirectly hold 27% stake in HX?

HNA was very cautious not to fall into another Jetstar HK trap when setting up the HX ownership issue.... However it's 45% of HX held by Grand China Air (a subsidiary within HNA group) while Mung Kin Keung, the only other shareholder, apparently has strong relationship with HNA group. So that gives the virtual ownership for HNA.

Michael
 
Sylus
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:14 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:59 am

Qantas16 wrote:
angusjt wrote:
TasFlyer wrote:

Something like this (had to put the 60min ETOPS/400nm around NLK manually):

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=AKL-HBA%2FCBR%0D%0ANLK&R=400nm%40NLK&MS=wls&DU=mi&E=60&EV=397&EU=kts


Could LDH work as a diversion airport? I'm aware it's not very big and its only about 900m long but adding it to the map it made CBR-AKL look more feasible.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=AKL-CBR%0D%0AWLG-CBR%0D%0ANLK%0D%0ALDH&R=400nm%40NLK%0D%0A400nm%40LDH&MS=wls&DU=mi&E=60&EV=397&EU=kts


No. A 717 could not safely land / take off from LDH so it certainly could not be a diversion airport. It will be 737's or nothing for HBA/CBR/ADL-AKL.



Doesn't the 717 have 75min ETOPS? Probably still doesn't help its case across the tasman
 
Deepinsider
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:36 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:12 pm

787 RR Troubles. Perth and some East Coast ports affected.
Take a look at this reschedule by NZ for just one week!
Incredible that they've set up all the logistics involved;
Catering, Crewing, Cargo, pax reservations.....etc
What a fantastic effort.
https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/travel- ... 3MGlii7RwS
 
usssla
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:36 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:33 pm

eamondzhang wrote:
c933103 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-temasek-holdings-hna-group-airlines-e/exclusive-singapores-temasek-interested-in-buying-into-hnas-hong-kong-airlines-source-idUSKBN1HO0IX

Interesting potential here. SQ are reportedly doing due diligence on HNA with a view in taking a significant though not majority stake. Obviously the main game here is HKG slots but it would also mean that SQ would increase their boardroom influence with VA. At the moment it seems this wouldn't be a big change as SQ are still supportive of the current board and management but it would mean SQ would have a greater say in any privatisation and subsequent control.

Seems like HNA currently only indirectly hold 27% stake in HX?

HNA was very cautious not to fall into another Jetstar HK trap when setting up the HX ownership issue.... However it's 45% of HX held by Grand China Air (a subsidiary within HNA group) while Mung Kin Keung, the only other shareholder, apparently has strong relationship with HNA group. So that gives the virtual ownership for HNA.

Michael


The jetstar HK failed to obtain the AOC is not due to the ownership.

The main reason is the key functions of the jetstar HK like route planning, aircraft ordering are not performed by the management of jetstar HK . At the hearing, the key management (like CEO) have not idea how to perform these key function.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 5887
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:42 pm

Deepinsider wrote:
787 RR Troubles. Perth and some East Coast ports affected.
Take a look at this reschedule by NZ for just one week!
Incredible that they've set up all the logistics involved;
Catering, Crewing, Cargo, pax reservations.....etc
What a fantastic effort.
https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/travel- ... 3MGlii7RwS


What fantastic effort might that be?

Lets reframe that to the 7 cancelled flights for the next week are all to PER. This is the same airline who said when they started the NZ177/178 rotation that it would be aimed at US connections however during December and January could only offer passengers the US connections transfer with minimum transfer time once a week instead of the supposedly 3 times a week. In other words NZ has been unreliable and have given their PER customers the middle finger. Well at least they are being consistent. Hence why its time for a real airline that doesn't treat their customer base as mugs to start PER-AKL.

I also wonder how many passengers VA will be flying to PER over the next week for NZ via the east coast.
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