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DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:23 am

I assume that NZ will recommence services on WLG-BNE, ZQN-BNE etc that are currently the sole preserve of VA when the alliance terminates. Also this must surely give impetus to AKL-HBA and CBR services commencing. Just last week I flew “NZ” on AKL-MEL-HBA and that market would be entirely ceded to QF, VA and JQ without a direct service.

As an aside I mentioned to a local that we’d flown from AKL and their response was “you should have waited until Air NZ begins their direct service. “Oh yes?”, I said with faux naivety, “and when would that be?” “Next year,” was the response. My retort was to the effect that I’d been visiting HBA regularly since the days of the CHC-HBA service, and I’d been told every time that NZ would start services to AKL “next year”. Maybe this time it may turn out to be true . . . ?
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:33 am

zkncj wrote:
What would the chances of AKL-OOL becoming an 77E or 789 service with the VA friendship gone?

Could AKL really handle anymore AM peak 777/787s from NZ?

I’ve thought this must be a possibility ever since NZ moved the 787 onto AKL-ADL. It would give a WB connection from OOL to the Americas and that has to be a marketing advantage. Notwithstanding that it is primarily a leisure destination and that J class is as yet an untested market.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:33 am

Birdiey wrote:
... within the New Zealand domestic market.

IMO, they won't last in the mainline domestic New Zealand market - fares can't really go much lower than they already are on the trunk routes, and if pushed by TT to do so, JQ or NZ (likely the latter) will vigorously meet any such threat with retaliation.

Perhaps they could tag Tasman flights to secondary New Zealand cities, like SYD - AKL - IVC / NPE / PMR or SYD - WLG - HLZ / ROT / TRG, but those tags would likely only be once a day (with terrible yield), and hard to fill, given small city sizes.

IMO, they should focus on holiday routes ex-AKL / WLG / CHC, to the likes of CNS and MCY, and/or holiday routes ex-HLZ / PMR / DUD, to the likes of BNE, OOL and SYD. That'd at least give them some differentiation from JQ. Though, it's still risky.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:40 am

zkncj wrote:
What would the chances of AKL-OOL becoming an 77E or 789 service with the VA friendship gone?

I'm not sure, but D7 on AKL - OOL will no doubt be a factor against doing so - those 333's and those prices sap up a lot of the demand.

DavidByrne wrote:
I assume that NZ will recommence services on WLG-BNE, ZQN-BNE etc that are currently the sole preserve of VA when the alliance terminates.

Yes - what's more interesting though is DUD - BNE. Will VA drop that route now? Will NZ pick it up? It has to be quite a marginal flight.

Kashmon wrote:
fares can't go lower?!!

On the mainline, trunk routes, I don't think they can - fares on AKL - WLG and AKL - CHC can regularly be found for less than NZD 40.

Cheers,

C.
 
Kashmon
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:41 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Birdiey wrote:
... within the New Zealand domestic market.

IMO, they won't last in the mainline domestic New Zealand market - fares can't really go much lower than they already are on the trunk routes, and if pushed by TT to do so, JQ or NZ (likely the latter) will vigorously meet any such threat with retaliation.

Perhaps they could tag Tasman flights to secondary New Zealand cities, like SYD - AKL - IVC / NPE / PMR or SYD - WLG - HLZ / ROT / TRG, but those tags would likely only be once a day (with terrible yield), and hard to fill, given small city sizes.

IMO, they should focus on holiday routes ex-AKL / WLG / CHC, to the likes of CNS and MCY, and/or holiday routes ex-HLZ / PMR / DUD, to the likes of BNE, OOL and SYD. That'd at least give them some differentiation from JQ. Though, it's still risky.

Cheers,

C.


fares can't go lower?!!
jeez
I hope someone aggressive comes in and takes on NZ

JQ and NZ have a gentleman's agreement...
 
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Birdiey
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:44 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Birdiey wrote:
... within the New Zealand domestic market.

IMO, they won't last in the mainline domestic New Zealand market - fares can't really go much lower than they already are on the trunk routes, and if pushed by TT to do so, JQ or NZ (likely the latter) will vigorously meet any such threat with retaliation.

Perhaps they could tag Tasman flights to secondary New Zealand cities, like SYD - AKL - IVC / NPE / PMR or SYD - WLG - HLZ / ROT / TRG, but those tags would likely only be once a day (with terrible yield), and hard to fill, given small city sizes.

IMO, they should focus on holiday routes ex-AKL / WLG / CHC, to the likes of CNS and MCY, and/or holiday routes ex-HLZ / PMR / DUD, to the likes of BNE, OOL and SYD. That'd at least give them some differentiation from JQ. Though, it's still risky.

Cheers,

C.


Id love that. Hoping Hamilton gets something from this.
 
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Karlos
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:54 am

planemanofnz wrote:
CV is certainly keeping us on our toes - two more potential routes to discuss:

1. AKL - NLK - CV's ZK-PVB was in NLK last month - does anyone know why?
2. AKL - HLZ - there are rumours on a blog that CV is interested in this route.

See:
- https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ZKPVB.
- http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.co.nz/2017/0 ... ander.html (see comments section).

Cheers,

C.


Wouldn't have thought AKL-HLZ could compete with drive time when considering downtime at either end when flying vs SH1 shortened drive time once the under construction 4 laning at Te Kauwhata and the Huntly bypass are completed.
 
flyjetstar
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:01 am

I'm dubious about Tiger entering NZ domestic or Tasman. We haven't seen much expansion from Tiger in Australia and two routes have just been cut. I don't think the Virgin Group has the funds to support Tiger going after a segment of the market that JQ has currently; JQ will be aggressive in keeping any market share. They also don't, from what I can see, have the funds to launch Tiger in NZ domestically. I think it's probably JB talking a lot based on the loss of NZ and the reality will be something quite different.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:02 am

7seven7nz wrote:
concordianSYD wrote:
Two regional NZ flights that stick out somewhat as being ripe for cutting are PMR-HLZ and PMR-WLG. I don’t know the loads on these sectors but PMR-HLZ is fairly unique being non-hub at either end, and PMR-WLG, while further distance and not as well served by road is ‘similar’ to the old HLZ-AKL. Palmerston is well served in terms of destinations (four) and I wouldn’t be surprised if one day one or both of these get cut. Does anyone agree / disagree?


They have already stopped this route in the weekends and it doesn't fly from mid-December to late January each year so it seems to be heavily business reliant. I've taken it a few times - WLG -PMR and return and it seems to be reasonably busy. I'm always surprised how many disembark in PMR from HAM.

HLZ-PMR has not operated on weekends since about early 2003 when the 1900D replaced the Bandeirante. My last hard copy timetable is Sep 2001 and there were no Sat flights and just the one Sun flight with a Bandeirante.

PA515
 
Sylus
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:35 am

DavidByrne wrote:
I assume that NZ will recommence services on WLG-BNE, ZQN-BNE etc that are currently the sole preserve of VA when the alliance terminates.

Yes - what's more interesting though is DUD - BNE. Will VA drop that route now? Will NZ pick it up? It has to be quite a marginal flight.

C.


NZ served the route before the VA partnership and this route is very popular during seasonal periods (school holidays). It's been served for almost 30 years now so I don't see it being dropped without at least an attempt with TT prior. Fairly price sensitive route with minimal connections, probably a good candidate for TT. I was on the DUD-BNE flight this morning. Went out with around 150, although I realize this means nothing. ZQN will remain VA not TT as my guess, as this is an increasingly premium market and one of the strongest yield wise. A TT entry could easily result in the resumption of HLZ/PMR-BNE in a seasonal fashion.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:38 am

Sunair is finally back up and running again - it's great to see. :)

See: https://www.facebook.com/sunairflights/?ref=br_rs.

Cheers,

C.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:45 am

Sylus wrote:
NZ served the route before the VA partnership and this route is very popular during seasonal periods (school holidays). It's been served for almost 30 years now so I don't see it being dropped without at least an attempt with TT prior. Fairly price sensitive route with minimal connections, probably a good candidate for TT. I was on the DUD-BNE flight this morning. Went out with around 150, although I realize this means nothing. ZQN will remain VA not TT as my guess, as this is an increasingly premium market and one of the strongest yield wise. A TT entry could easily result in the resumption of HLZ/PMR-BNE in a seasonal fashion.


i always tend to find the NZ lounge in BNE to be packed before the VA flight to DUD - maybe so rich farmers use it frequently?
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:54 am

Could this be part of an typical NZ 'weaken the competitor' before making an move? for example for years NZ has wanted to operate within Australia, everything so far hasn't worked to well. Currently that market is crowed, but it they we're to weaken VA, then take an hit at the market..... they might have an chance to take them out?
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:26 am

Sylus wrote:
It's been served for almost 30 years now ...

Not quite - DUD's first international flight was in July 1994 (less than 24 years ago), while SJ didn't serve DUD until December 1995 (only ~22 years ago), and VA commenced DUD operations in July 2008 (less than 10 years ago).

zkncj wrote:
Could this be part of an typical NZ 'weaken the competitor' before making an move?

You mean, NZ domestically in Australia? I highly doubt that - why would NZ want to tie up its resources in a market segment that is extremely competitive, and doesn't really add anything unless non-NZ cities like CBR are served?

flyjetstar wrote:
Tiger going after a segment of the market that JQ has currently ...

There are various markets that JQ doesn't currently have on the Tasman - for example, it has no Tasman services ex-CBR, CNS, DUD, HBA, HLZ, MCY, PMR or ROT, and JQ doesn't even serve trunk routes like AKL / WLG - BNE.

Cheers,

C.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:58 am

So what is VA's strategy precisely? Now that code share with NZ is off the table things could dry up quite quickly for VA on the Tasman.
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flyjetstar
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:04 am

There are various markets that JQ doesn't currently have on the Tasman - for example, it has no Tasman services ex-CBR, CNS, DUD, HBA, HLZ, MCY, PMR or ROT, and JQ doesn't even serve trunk routes like AKL / WLG - BNE.



The obvious question is why JQ don't serve them?

If JQ aren't then Tiger aren't likely to either. They are pretty conservative and haven't really done anything inspiring in Australia.
Last edited by flyjetstar on Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:28 am

flyjetstar wrote:
If JQ aren't then Tiger aren't likely to either.

It's still not impossible - look at TT serving non-JQ destinations, like CFS. A secondary New Zealand destination could be that one exception, too.

Back in the Pacific Blue days, the VA Group had services to the likes of HLZ, when the QF Group didn't. VA hasn't been afraid of risks in the past.

In contrast to your statement above, IMHO, TT will be looking for routes that JQ doesn't serve to New Zealand, like BNE - AKL, to reduce overlap.

Cheers,

C.
 
777ER
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:05 pm

One thing interesting about the announcement of VA/NZ divorce is any lack of word on current domestic connections. VA have said in their press release that talks are still happening on domestic code shares.
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planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:28 pm

777ER wrote:
One thing interesting about the announcement of VA/NZ divorce is any lack of word on current domestic connections. VA have said in their press release that talks are still happening on domestic code shares.

Yes - could that imply that NZ is not interested in reciprocal domestic code-sharing with VA, because if it was, it would've agreed terms for this with VA pre-today's move by NZ?

Even if NZ were interested in such an arrangement, VA may not be interested, on grounds of retribution - according to the Herald, "the announcement surprised Virgin Australia."

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:53 pm

NZ321 wrote:
... things could dry up quite quickly for VA on the Tasman.

Indeed - they can't compete on product or schedule, so IMO, they'll have to compete on price, which means TT to New Zealand is likely.

Cheers,

C.
 
DavidJ08
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:50 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
777ER wrote:
One thing interesting about the announcement of VA/NZ divorce is any lack of word on current domestic connections. VA have said in their press release that talks are still happening on domestic code shares.

Yes - could that imply that NZ is not interested in reciprocal domestic code-sharing with VA, because if it was, it would've agreed terms for this with VA pre-today's move by NZ?

Quite possibly - I was just reading NZ's FAQ page about it and it mentions "After 27 October 2018 customers who wish to travel on Virgin Australia services within Australia can do so via Air New Zealand’s interline agreement with Virgin Australia."

Not sure if that's meant to be there, but if it's true and NZ pax can still fly VA on their Aus domestic (note that it's not codeshare but interline) then the sticking point would have to be on this side of the Tasman.
 
xiaotung
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:59 pm

777ER wrote:
One thing interesting about the announcement of VA/NZ divorce is any lack of word on current domestic connections. VA have said in their press release that talks are still happening on domestic code shares.


My understanding from reading the press release is they will maintain interline agreement which means you can book VA domestic flights on the same ticket (and tag bags) as your NZ trans-Tasman flight. It's no different from NZ selling tickets on AS for US connections or on MU/CZ/FM etc., for China connections. NZ also have interline agreement with QF. It just means in the future, NZ would treat VA nothing different from QF.
 
7seven7nz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:37 pm

PA515 wrote:
7seven7nz wrote:
concordianSYD wrote:
Two regional NZ flights that stick out somewhat as being ripe for cutting are PMR-HLZ and PMR-WLG. I don’t know the loads on these sectors but PMR-HLZ is fairly unique being non-hub at either end, and PMR-WLG, while further distance and not as well served by road is ‘similar’ to the old HLZ-AKL. Palmerston is well served in terms of destinations (four) and I wouldn’t be surprised if one day one or both of these get cut. Does anyone agree / disagree?


They have already stopped this route in the weekends and it doesn't fly from mid-December to late January each year so it seems to be heavily business reliant. I've taken it a few times - WLG -PMR and return and it seems to be reasonably busy. I'm always surprised how many disembark in PMR from HAM.

HLZ-PMR has not operated on weekends since about early 2003 when the 1900D replaced the Bandeirante. My last hard copy timetable is Sep 2001 and there were no Sat flights and just the one Sun flight with a Bandeirante.

PA515


Sorry I should have been clearer, I meant the WLG - PMR flights which were operating in the weekend up until a year or so ago.
 
777ER
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:07 am

Im really waiting now for the revised schedule from both NZ and VA to come out. Be interesting to see what happens with the DUD and WLG-BNE routes.

Im expecting NZ to fly WLG-BNE. Suspect VA will also keep WLG, but reduce to 1x daily as I've heard it does well with their codeshares from DL.

Could QF launch a WLG-BNE sector with EK codeshare?
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zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:11 am

777ER wrote:
Could QF launch a WLG-BNE sector with EK codeshare?


When does the EK/QF Tasman alliance renew? Could see this either getting an delayed renewal or not approved due to NZ/VA no longer being in an JV along with the recently EK Tasman exit from AKL.
 
sq256
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:22 am

Seeing that EK is slowly exiting Trans-Tasman, the long rumoured BNE-WLG extension would less likely to happen. If anything, if EK wants a presence in WLG, QF would have to fly it with their 737s.
 
a7ala
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:58 am

sq256 wrote:
Seeing that EK is slowly exiting Trans-Tasman, the long rumoured BNE-WLG extension would less likely to happen. If anything, if EK wants a presence in WLG, QF would have to fly it with their 737s.


Actually not slowly exiting the Tasman - quickly - its happened (apart from CHC-SYD)

What has happened on BNE/SYD/MEL-AKL really has no bearing with a potential BNE-WLG. They pulled out of AKL tasman because they introduced the non-stop DXB, something they wont be able to do in WLG even if the runway was extended. Surely QF and EK should be assessing each opportunity on their own merits? Maybe it wont be EK and maybe it will be QF to feed to new B787 BNE hub eg. WLG-BNE-LAX-BNE-WLG off the back of QF55/56 would fit.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:02 am

Does anyone know how much of Air Berlin's fleet is remaining to find an new home? Could NZ pickup a couple of short-term leases on A320s from AB previous fleet.

There always the option that HiFly will be back next Christmas.....
 
getluv
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:24 am

zkncj wrote:
777ER wrote:
Could QF launch a WLG-BNE sector with EK codeshare?


When does the EK/QF Tasman alliance renew? Could see this either getting an delayed renewal or not approved due to NZ/VA no longer being in an JV along with the recently EK Tasman exit from AKL.


The renewed EK/QF JBA was given final approval by the ACCC two weeks ago. It expires March 2023.

Interesting to see if NZ timed this on purpose.
You meant lose, not loose.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:37 am

getluv wrote:
zkncj wrote:
777ER wrote:
Could QF launch a WLG-BNE sector with EK codeshare?


When does the EK/QF Tasman alliance renew? Could see this either getting an delayed renewal or not approved due to NZ/VA no longer being in an JV along with the recently EK Tasman exit from AKL.


The renewed EK/QF JBA was given final approval by the ACCC two weeks ago. It expires March 2023.

Interesting to see if NZ timed this on purpose.


Don't EK/QF need approval for the New Zealand side too? Could NZ kick up an stink and get it revoked on EK reducing capacity to New Zealand.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:53 am

getluv wrote:
Considering MOT keeps approving monopoly routes with SQ and CX for NZ, I don't think so.


Yet QF/AA has so much trouble getting approved.
 
getluv
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:53 am

Considering MOT keeps approving monopoly routes with SQ and CX for NZ, I don't think so.
You meant lose, not loose.
 
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LamboAston
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:21 am

Sylus wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
I assume that NZ will recommence services on WLG-BNE, ZQN-BNE etc that are currently the sole preserve of VA when the alliance terminates.

Yes - what's more interesting though is DUD - BNE. Will VA drop that route now? Will NZ pick it up? It has to be quite a marginal flight.

C.


NZ served the route before the VA partnership and this route is very popular during seasonal periods (school holidays). It's been served for almost 30 years now so I don't see it being dropped without at least an attempt with TT prior. Fairly price sensitive route with minimal connections, probably a good candidate for TT. I was on the DUD-BNE flight this morning. Went out with around 150, although I realize this means nothing. ZQN will remain VA not TT as my guess, as this is an increasingly premium market and one of the strongest yield wise. A TT entry could easily result in the resumption of HLZ/PMR-BNE in a seasonal fashion.

I feel that the biggest problem currently with that flight is the diabolical timing - not encouraging more premium customers. It was better a few years ago with a departure sometime around 5pm. I flew it then.
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getluv
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:43 am

zkncj wrote:
getluv wrote:
Considering MOT keeps approving monopoly routes with SQ and CX for NZ, I don't think so.


Yet QF/AA has so much trouble getting approved.


On the US end perhaps, but the MOT approved the QF/AA JV. I don't know what your point is.

QF/EK's new schedule is in place anyway.
You meant lose, not loose.
 
Sylus
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:02 am

I feel that the biggest problem currently with that flight is the diabolical timing - not encouraging more premium customers. It was better a few years ago with a departure sometime around 5pm. I flew it then.


Yes this is true. The crew now overnight in DUD (which they seem to enjoy after speaking with a few) where as previously they came in and out. The one good thing about the timings is it allows full connectivity to VA's large domestic/international BNE hub in both directions - something the former timings did not allow.

planemanofnz wrote:
Sylus wrote:
It's been served for almost 30 years now ...

Not quite - DUD's first international flight was in July 1994 (less than 24 years ago), while SJ didn't serve DUD until December 1995 (only ~22 years ago), and VA commenced DUD operations in July 2008 (less than 10 years ago).
Cheers,

C.


24 years ok, but the point still stands, it's been around a long time.
 
Kashmon
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:00 pm

getluv wrote:
Considering MOT keeps approving monopoly routes with SQ and CX for NZ, I don't think so.

ah the old every route CX operates on is a monopoly....

Fares to HKG have never been lower
Fares do not go DOWN if the market is a monopoly....
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:51 pm

Kashmon wrote:
Fares to HKG have never been lower
Fares do not go DOWN if the market is a monopoly....

That's because HX is now flying to AKL, up to 2x daily - when the CX - NZ JV was originally approved by the NZCC, AKL - HKG became a monopoly route for CX and NZ (AFAIK, largely on the premise that the route was weak enough that a third carrier on it was highly unlikely, and that for the two existing carriers to maintain and/or grow capacity levels, they needed to co-operate). Therefore, once HX launched AKL, the NZCC imposed further conditions on the CX - NZ JV for its renewal, such as the launch of CHC - HKG by the JV.

FYI - code-sharing and/or revenue-sharing JV's have been approved by New Zealand's regulators in the past on multiple monopoly routes for NZ, like AKL - HKG / NRT / SFO / SIN / YVR. In some cases, the revenue-sharing JV's have been warranted, but in others, IMO, they haven't been. Purely IMO, but had the NZ - CX JV not been approved, I suspect that NZ would've maintained a daily service to HKG, albeit perhaps on a lower-density 789. HKG is, after all, arguably the highest yielding destination within the Asia-Pacific region.

Cheers,

C.
Last edited by planemanofnz on Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4060
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:59 pm

Sylus wrote:
... the point still stands, it's been around a long time.

Okay, but just because it's been around for a long time (it's only been around for less than 10 years on VA metal), doesn't mean that if it's reliant on an NZ code-sharing arrangement, that it won't be dumped without such an arrangement. If NZ leaves the route to VA (which I suspect that it will), then IMO, VA will keep it - it doesn't seem to me to be a route that's reliant on tapping into NZ's FFP base, or using NZ's lounges.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4060
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:05 am

QF and CI are seeking to code-share on Australia - New Zealand flights - such code-sharing is yet to be approved.

See: https://blueswandaily.com/qantas-applie ... ew-zeland/.

This will hopefully give CI's AKL service a bit of a boost, as it comes under pressure soon from NZ launching TPE.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4060
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:56 am

CBR has again stated that it's keen to ensure that CBR - New Zealand flights continue.

... the government is also trying to reestablish direct flights to ... New Zealand.

See: https://www.smh.com.au/politics/act/and ... 4z7yq.html.

Surely this would be a route for NZ, rather than QF, JQ, VA or TT, given NZ's AKL hub?

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4060
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:05 am

Phil Goff wants to develop "the relationship between Auckland International Airport and Hong Kong as there is significant interest from Hong Kong authorities in what our airport is doing to recruit and train its workforce."

See: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK1804/S ... c-ties.htm.

How he plans to do this, I don't know, but nevertheless, it's welcome - AKL has a number of issues and could learn a lot from a world-class mega-hub, like HKG. HKG is now the busiest long-haul destination ex-AKL.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4060
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:09 am

Another day, another drone incident at AKL - this time, causing delays: "a drone was spotted by two pilots on approach to Auckland airport at 2.46pm and was flying at an altitude of approximately 1,200 feet ... It was 3 nautical miles from runway 05 in the direction of Manukau."

See: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12027587.

Given NZ's recent comments about wanting greater regulation around the use of drones in New Zealand, it'll be interesting to see whether the CAA takes note, and imposes some sort of registration requirement for drones. What other alternatives could there be on the table?

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4060
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:11 am

WAG is now aiming to become a pilot-training hub, after the NZICPA moved to WAG late last year:

"What we want is to form an international cadet programme that would allow 200 pilots a year to be trained out of Whanganui and employed with international airlines."

See: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wanganui-chro ... d=12025095.

This will be great, and relevant given only this week Sunair were complaining about pilot shortages.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4060
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:10 am

HX is seasonally downgrading its AKL - HKG service from 7x to 5x weekly, from 1 May to 28 June.

See: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... y-changes/.

This is in line with other Asian carriers downgrading their AKL services over the New Zealand winter.

I hope HX sticks it out at AKL - it code-shares here with the likes of EY and 9W, so that should help?

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4060
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:13 am

NZ's EZE service will receive a fresh boost once Argentina reduces ground handling and navigation fees from June.

See: https://blueswandaily.com/argentina-ann ... nectivity/.

Does anyone know what impact, if any, LA's MEL launch has had on MEL connections to NZ's AKL - EZE service?

Cheers,

C.
 
DavidJ08
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:18 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:19 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
WAG is now aiming to become a pilot-training hub, after the NZICPA moved to WAG late last year:

"What we want is to form an international cadet programme that would allow 200 pilots a year to be trained out of Whanganui and employed with international airlines."

See: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wanganui-chro ... d=12025095.

This will be great, and relevant given only this week Sunair were complaining about pilot shortages.

I don't think they'll have too much relevance on the domestic scene - later on in the article they disclosed how many domestic student spots (student loan spots) they have - 16. A close read of the article reveals that it's not about domestic students at all - it's about a New Zealand business proposing to make more money, by providing overseas airlines with initial flight training services for the airlines' own cadets, who then go back to work at those airlines.

They even said themselves in the article, "The way it would work is students would apply to a selection board with the airline and the ones that are successful would be offered employment subject to passing training with us." In other words, the overseas airlines select their own students (from their own country), send them to NZ for the period of their initial flight training (PPL, MEIR, CPL), and they then go back home for license conversion training, airline training and type rating before they start flying (either as second officer on long-haul carriers, or first officer 737 or A320 on short haul carriers.)

Plenty of New Zealand training schools do training work for overseas airlines (and even more of them in Aus). The one I can think of off the top of my head is L3 in Hamilton and HX - HX has a cadet programme for Hong Kong permanent residents only, generally aimed at students out of high school or uni, who go through a comprehensive selection process, and the successful candidates are the trained from zero flight experience up to second officer by the airline. As part of that training (and in fact the first part), they get sent to Hamilton and have initial flight training with L3, then go home with a NZ CPL for further training, and work with HX. L3 also do a program with IndiGo.

On the domestic side, yes there is also a shortage, but the government has capped the number of student loan funded places in flight training, and set up the student loan to have a significant shortfall, so the domestic shortage won't be improved by commercial organisations alone - domestic candidates are limited by funding, not the capacity of the training schools. Though I will say, having training schools that do international work will definitely be helpful - I remember someone comparing flight training to a giant pyramid scheme, in which case the more international PPL/CPL candidates (who will leave NZ after training with a job in their home countries) the better off our local kids will be in their struggle to build hours as a flight instructor - the international students pile up the bottom of the pyramid so more of our locals can get further up the pyramid. And in any case, purely economically, that sweet sweet foreign airline moolah flowing into NZ is always good.
 
zkeoj
Posts: 1116
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:00 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:03 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
Phil Goff wants to develop "the relationship between Auckland International Airport and Hong Kong as there is significant interest from Hong Kong authorities in what our airport is doing to recruit and train its workforce."

See: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK1804/S ... c-ties.htm.

How he plans to do this, I don't know, but nevertheless, it's welcome - AKL has a number of issues and could learn a lot from a world-class mega-hub, like HKG. HKG is now the busiest long-haul destination ex-AKL.

Cheers,

C.


I think you got it backward - they say that HKG is interested in what AKL is doing, and thus want HKG staff to be trained in AKL: "there is significant interest from Hong Kong authorities in what our airport is doing to recruit and train its workforce."
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4060
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:56 pm

DavidJ08 wrote:
Plenty of New Zealand training schools do training work for overseas airlines ... L3 in Hamilton and HX ...

There have also been relationships between New Zealand aviation service providers (training cabin crew and/or pilots) and the likes of:

- 6E: https://www.l3airlineacademy.com/career ... -routeplan
- HU: http://www.tourism2025.org.nz/about-tou ... its-in-nz/
- QR: http://www.aviationnews.co.nz/news/52/2 ... programme/
- VN: http://www.aviationschool.co.nz/5017-2/

DavidJ08 wrote:
I will say, having training schools that do international work will definitely be helpful ...

I agree - not only do some of these international students pay significant fees, and create work for New Zealand-based instructors, but if not tied to an overseas airline, they could always be tapped into to fill future pilot shortages domestically (if not already so).

zkeoj wrote:
I think you got it backward - they say that HKG is interested in what AKL is doing, and thus want HKG staff to be trained in AKL: "there is significant interest from Hong Kong authorities in what our airport is doing to recruit and train its workforce."

HKG's interest in AKL has spurred Phil Goff to initiate a relationship between AKL and Hong Kong - what I'm saying is that I hope that in that relationship, AKL will be able to learn from Hong Kong too, given Hong Kong's successes around long-term planning. :crossfingers:

Cheers,

C.
 
DavidJ08
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:18 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:48 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
but if not tied to an overseas airline, they could always be tapped into to fill future pilot shortages domestically (if not already so).

That's the thing I was doubting, these training schools tend to market themselves to airlines as a cadet training service, rather than to individual students. I don't think there actually are many (if any) who just decide to come to this corner of the world on their own and spend exuberant amounts of money getting a NZ license without the backing of an airline back home and the promise of a job. And since the programs we see tend to be from Asia/ME carriers, I'll generalise a bit and say that overall, English would tend to be their second language, so they would have more difficulty finding employment as a flight instructor here (which, if you remember, is a vital step in NZ to build hours as the law requires a minimum of 500hrs before beginning airline training - and flight school only provides the 200-250 needed for CPL/MEIR.) Plus the immigration/visa side would be a hurdle too.
 
NZ321
Posts: 914
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:14 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Kashmon wrote:
Fares to HKG have never been lower
Fares do not go DOWN if the market is a monopoly....

That's because HX is now flying to AKL, up to 2x daily - when the CX - NZ JV was originally approved by the NZCC, AKL - HKG became a monopoly route for CX and NZ (AFAIK, largely on the premise that the route was weak enough that a third carrier on it was highly unlikely, and that for the two existing carriers to maintain and/or grow capacity levels, they needed to co-operate). Therefore, once HX launched AKL, the NZCC imposed further conditions on the CX - NZ JV for its renewal, such as the launch of CHC - HKG by the JV.

Cheers,

C.


Interesting to see that HX is reducing frequency to AKL to 5 a week.
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