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qf789
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New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:45 am

Welcome to New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018, please continue to add your comments below

Link to the March edition

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1387741
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PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:47 am

Both Hi Fly A340s have now left.

9H-FOX was AKL-SIN 0249/0812 on 28 March, later SIN-CAI.
9H-SUN was AKL-PTY 2158/1711 on 31 March.

Now just waiting for the ZK-NZE test flight.

PA515
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:05 am

Does anyone know why NZ646 was cancelled today? Caused a degree of angst at ZQN - not only was it the end of Easter; but an Easter that included Warbirds. All flights out chocka, as are hotels, and some stranded pax.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:26 am

Gasman wrote:
Does anyone know why NZ646 was cancelled today? Caused a degree of angst at ZQN - not only was it the end of Easter; but an Easter that included Warbirds. All flights out chocka, as are hotels, and some stranded pax.


Don’t no but the aircraft ZK-OXC seems to still a job in service and on schedule, must have positioned ZQN-CHC. Crew sickness?

We were in the last thread talking about the NZ fleet. There was some talk a while back about some second hand 777’s, any truth to that or updates? Thinking about it maybe some 77W’s to upgauge some existing 772 flights?
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:03 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
We were in the last thread talking about the NZ fleet. There was some talk a while back about some second hand 777’s, any truth to that or updates? Thinking about it maybe some 77W’s to upgauge some existing 772 flights?


Yet they are now using the 789/77E on daily AKL-CHC-AKL run until at-least October.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:51 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
We were in the last thread talking about the NZ fleet. There was some talk a while back about some second hand 777’s, any truth to that or updates? Thinking about it maybe some 77W’s to upgauge some existing 772 flights?

At the time I posed the question as to whether anyone could provide a source for the suggestion, or whether it was an A-net generated rumour that got legs by being repeated often enough. No one could offer a source - I suspect the discussion is entirely within the A-net community!
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:56 am

zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
We were in the last thread talking about the NZ fleet. There was some talk a while back about some second hand 777’s, any truth to that or updates? Thinking about it maybe some 77W’s to upgauge some existing 772 flights?


Yet they are now using the 789/77E on daily AKL-CHC-AKL run until at-least October.


That’s the IAH aircraft that doesn’t have enough time to go to OZ or Pacific in NS due to the 1600 departure. And some 772 flights aswell.

DavidByrne wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
We were in the last thread talking about the NZ fleet. There was some talk a while back about some second hand 777’s, any truth to that or updates? Thinking about it maybe some 77W’s to upgauge some existing 772 flights?

At the time I posed the question as to whether anyone could provide a source for the suggestion, or whether it was an A-net generated rumour that got legs by being repeated often enough. No one could offer a source - I suspect the discussion is entirely within the A-net community!


Fair enough, I must have missed that. Funny how things get said enough they become fact on here. I do enjoy speculation but only if it’s a chance of happening.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:05 am

Gasman wrote:
Does anyone know why NZ646 was cancelled today? Caused a degree of angst at ZQN - not only was it the end of Easter; but an Easter that included Warbirds. All flights out chocka, as are hotels, and some stranded pax.


ZK-OXC as NZ647 CHC-ZQN departed CHC on time and got to about WKA before returning to CHC at 1112. Then NZ550 CHC-AKL at 1413.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... c#10e70658

Also, http://thenzsource.com closed down on 25 March 2018.

PA515
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:20 am

Not sure what happened to NZ’s SYD ops today
NZ103 was rescheduled 0900 to 1030 initiallywas to be 772 OKC off NZ80 eventually departed 1640 with 772 OKF.

NZ105 scheduled 1605 departed 1930 with 77W OKQ, which came off NZ53 from NAN, usually would have been OKF off NZ102.

Seems OKC went u/s, heading to EZE now as scheduled at 2005.

NZ8 SFO at 1945 rescheduled till 2320 using OKE ex APW.
 
ADrum23
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:26 am

Curious, what are the chances we could someday see an AKL-DFW route?
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:46 am

ADrum23 wrote:
Curious, what are the chances we could someday see an AKL-DFW route?

On QF or AA maybe, but never on NZ.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:48 am

ADrum23 wrote:
Curious, what are the chances we could someday see an AKL-DFW route?

Slim, though I wouldn't write it off completely - it'd no doubt be on AA or QF metal (likely the former), likely seasonal in the summer (like AA on AKL - LAX), and only if/when AA - QF get US DOT approval for their JV. AA seems to be doing well on AKL - LAX over the summer, having upgraded its flight here last season from the 788 to the 789. If AKL - LAX doesn't go year round, I see either AKL - DFW or CHC - LAX (both only in the summer) as the front-runners for further AA expansion in New Zealand, if there is to be any at all.

Separately, with the huge development of ULH routes in this corridor of late (like AC on MEL - YVR, NZ on AKL - ORD, QF on SYD - DFW and UA on SYD - IAH), I wonder if AKL will see more ULH flights to North America in the mid-term. For example, both AC and DL have 77L's which could do AKL - YYZ and AKL - ATL, respectively, and neither carrier has a metal presence in New Zealand. AA on AKL - JFK could also be a wild card, given that they have 359's on order, which will be delivered before NZ gets any 359's or 777X's. :crossfingers:

Cheers,

C.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:43 pm

Seven Air NZ ATR 72-500s are now listed For Sale on:
http://www.myairlease.com/available/ava ... _lease_ATR
(click the top of the MSN column sorts them in numerical order)

ZK-MCB (msn 597, Nov 1999) --- Available Jun 2018
ZK-MCJ (msn 624, Dec 1999) --- Available Sep 2019
ZK-MCO (msn 628, Dec 1999) -- Available Apr 2019
ZK-MCU (msn 632, Feb 2000) ---- Available Jul 2018
ZK-MCX (msn 687, Jul 2002) ---- Available Oct 2019 (old colours)
ZK-MCY (msn 703, Feb 2003) --- Available Nov 2018 (old colours)
ZK-MCC (msn 714, Nov 2004) --- Available Dec 2019

ZK-MCA (msn 597, Oct 1999) --- now S2-AHQ with Novoair (VQ), delivered Aug 2017
ZK-MCW (msn 646, Sep 2000) --- now S2-AJK with Novoair (VQ) delivered Jan 2018

ZK-MCF (msn 600, Nov 1999) --- No info
ZK-MCP (msn 630, Jan 2000) --- No info

Thought there would be two or three additional ATRs available in 2018 as an A320 replaces three ATRs WLG-CHC in the new schedule effective 04 Apr 2018. It's possible ZK-MCF and ZK-MCP have been sold, so are not listed.

PA515
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:11 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Curious, what are the chances we could someday see an AKL-DFW route?

Slim, though I wouldn't write it off completely - it'd no doubt be on AA or QF metal (likely the former), likely seasonal in the summer (like AA on AKL - LAX), and only if/when AA - QF get US DOT approval for their JV. AA seems to be doing well on AKL - LAX over the summer, having upgraded its flight here last season from the 788 to the 789. If AKL - LAX doesn't go year round, I see either AKL - DFW or CHC - LAX (both only in the summer) as the front-runners for further AA expansion in New Zealand, if there is to be any at all.

Separately, with the huge development of ULH routes in this corridor of late (like AC on MEL - YVR, NZ on AKL - ORD, QF on SYD - DFW and UA on SYD - IAH), I wonder if AKL will see more ULH flights to North America in the mid-term. For example, both AC and DL have 77L's which could do AKL - YYZ and AKL - ATL, respectively, and neither carrier has a metal presence in New Zealand. AA on AKL - JFK could also be a wild card, given that they have 359's on order, which will be delivered before NZ gets any 359's or 777X's. :crossfingers:

Cheers,

C.


A seasonal AC AKL-YVR codeshares with NZ could be a goer. NZ added an extra 2 flights last year, a DEC-FEB 3 weekly 77L or 788/789 could work?

DL I’d imagine if anything codeshare with VA from LAX or maybe SEA since that’s an unserved market, I couldn’t see ATL.

I don’t think AA have much at JFK anymore do they? Very unlikely they would consider JFK-AKL however DFW was mentioned if LAX did ‘well’ whatever well means.
 
ADrum23
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:57 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Curious, what are the chances we could someday see an AKL-DFW route?

Slim, though I wouldn't write it off completely - it'd no doubt be on AA or QF metal (likely the former), likely seasonal in the summer (like AA on AKL - LAX), and only if/when AA - QF get US DOT approval for their JV. AA seems to be doing well on AKL - LAX over the summer, having upgraded its flight here last season from the 788 to the 789. If AKL - LAX doesn't go year round, I see either AKL - DFW or CHC - LAX (both only in the summer) as the front-runners for further AA expansion in New Zealand, if there is to be any at all.

Separately, with the huge development of ULH routes in this corridor of late (like AC on MEL - YVR, NZ on AKL - ORD, QF on SYD - DFW and UA on SYD - IAH), I wonder if AKL will see more ULH flights to North America in the mid-term. For example, both AC and DL have 77L's which could do AKL - YYZ and AKL - ATL, respectively, and neither carrier has a metal presence in New Zealand. AA on AKL - JFK could also be a wild card, given that they have 359's on order, which will be delivered before NZ gets any 359's or 777X's. :crossfingers:

Cheers,

C.


I think a AKL-DFW could work on a seasonal basis. After all, in-state rival IAH has both AKL and SYD service on the UA/NZ joint venture, I doubt both would be there if it weren't for the jv. It wouldn't at all shock me to see AA launch DFW-AKL as a response to UA's recently launched IAH-SYD route (of course, this is all contingent upon the joint venture going through, I don't see why it won't).
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:22 am

There's an interesting article in the Herald today on regional aviation - interestingly:

- There are suggestions that NZ could pull out of WRE.
- NZ turned down an offer from S8 to interline together.

See: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/102643 ... nal-routes.

Would WRE really be ahead of the likes of TIU / TUO on the NZ chopping board?

Cheers,

C.
 
DavidJ08
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:08 am

planemanofnz wrote:
- NZ turned down an offer from S8 to interline together.

A bit more context on that particular fact: it was an earlier offer that NZ turned down, the guy even elaborated on it saying "yes the technology wasn't there, whereas we've certainly got it now". Air NZ's statement (at the bottom of the article) referenced compatible booking systems as an example of what's needed for interline ops, and said that interline agreements tend to be between large long haul carriers.

Interesting re WRE, and good to hear that the smaller carriers are standing by to have a crack at whatever NZ drops. Re the more convenient timing on WSZ - naturally the small fry can approach the scheduling differently, with less logistics in fitting each particular flight around the rest of the network, whereas NZ will be pushing for maximal fleet utilisation on their relatively new aircraft (as they should). It's sort of like cargo operators - new cargo planes (A330F, 777F, 747-8F) are flown round-the-clock on long haul flights whereas the short-haul overnight-only operations are invariably done with old aircraft, sometimes converted from old passenger models, which can be acquired cheaply enough for them to sit on the tarmac during the day and still make enough money at night to earn their keep.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:14 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
DL I’d imagine if anything codeshare with VA ...

Why do you say that?

Given DL's global reach, New Zealand is definitely a hole in their network, which VA really only poorly serves for them on a code-share basis. The hole is all the more noticeable, now that AA, HA and UA all serve AKL with their own metal. Aside from SEA - SYD, I see one of ATL / JFK / SEA - AKL as DL's strongest opportunity in Australasia, particularly given 1) the JV with VA already covering LAX well, and 2) the inability to serve Australia from ATL / NYC (with them being longer than DOH - AKL).

I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of others as to which hub out of those highlighted above would suit DL most for an AKL service. IMO, SEA would make less sense, given its size and lack of differentiation from anything Australasia already has (it's just another west coast destination). While DL's biggest hub is at ATL, it's also NYC's largest carrier, and NYC would offer greater O&D traffic and yield than ATL. That being said, it'd also be more expensive to operate from NYC, given the greater distance.

Some further points for discussion:

- I assume that both the 77L and the 359 could do these routes profitably for DL?
- Would VA would be willing to extend their JV to the New Zealand - US market?
- How much would the lack of domestic AKL connections be a hindrance to DL?

Image

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:24 am

GS has revised its AKL schedule, with the following changes:

- CKG - AKL downgraded from 2x weekly to 1x weekly, effective 1 April.
- XIY - AKL suspended from 25 March to 4 June, when it resumes again.

See: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-changes/.

I assume that CGK - AKL will be upgraded again, next NW.

It's great to see XIY - AKL back again so soon, before NW.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:25 am

PPQ's last NZ flight departed this morning, with still no CV replacement announcement, "but a decision is expected in the next fortnight." I found it really interesting that, according to an RNZ journalist, "... Air New Zealand tells our reporter ... she can't speak to staff, film its signage or its last plane leaving the Kapiti Coast this morning. And then doesn't respond to requests for a statement/interview afterwards."

Image

Image

See:
- http://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=108367.
- https://twitter.com/pipkeane.
- http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.co.nz/2018/0 ... -ends.html.

Cheers,

C.
Last edited by planemanofnz on Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:36 am

Shane Jones was semi-bashing NZ again in Parliament today, and said "It is very interesting that Air New Zealand in its annual review is trumpeting new direct routes to ... Beijing" - the irony being, of course, that NZ does not serve PEK with its own metal, nor has it announced any intention to do so.

:roll:

Separately, he said that the New Zealand Airports Association "have signalled an expression of interest towards the provincial growth fund." We already know that KKE will receive fund money for upgrades. What other airports would be front-runners - perhaps CHT, to have the runway lengthened?

See: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1804/S ... pril-3.htm.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:43 am

DavidJ08 wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
- NZ turned down an offer from S8 to interline together.

A bit more context ... "yes the technology wasn't there, whereas we've certainly got it now". Air NZ's statement (at the bottom of the article) referenced compatible booking systems as an example of what's needed for interline ops, and said that interline agreements tend to be between large long haul carriers.

Sure, "tend to be," but you know that NZ already codeshares with GZ on turbo-prop flights, right? In fact, those GZ flights are operated by the SAAB340, which is what CV would be using to PPQ. Oh, and that NZ - GZ code-sharing relationship dates back to May 2007, so I'm not quite sure how NZ could turn down S8's code-share offer three years ago on the grounds of technology - unless GZ had some massively superior booking system than S8's (which I doubt).

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:03 am

CV is certainly keeping us on our toes - two more potential routes to discuss:

1. AKL - NLK - CV's ZK-PVB was in NLK last month - does anyone know why?
2. AKL - HLZ - there are rumours on a blog that CV is interested in this route.

See:
- https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ZKPVB.
- http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.co.nz/2017/0 ... ander.html (see comments section).

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:18 am

NZ operated the first regular 789 AKL - CHC rotation today, with ZK - NZL (NZ595/594).

See: http://b787s.net/air-new-zealand-b787-9 ... -rotation/.

The 789 and 772 domestic NZ flights are now scheduled through October (not just April).

Would a fully loaded 789 be able to fly AKL - WLG - AKL? Would NZ ever consider this?

Cheers,

C.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:50 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
Sure, "tend to be," but you know that NZ already codeshares with GZ on turbo-prop flights, right? In fact, those GZ flights are operated by the SAAB340, which is what CV would be using to PPQ. Oh, and that NZ - GZ code-sharing relationship dates back to May 2007, so I'm not quite sure how NZ could turn down S8's code-share offer three years ago on the grounds of technology - unless GZ had some massively superior booking system than S8's (which I doubt).

So what. Air NZ does not compete with GZ. It competes with Barrier Air at KKE for KAT pax, Air Chathams at TRG for WHK pax, Sounds Air at ROT and TUO for southbound TUO pax, Air Chathams at PMR for WAG pax, potentially Air Chathams at WLG for PPQ pax, and Sounds Air across Cook Strait. It would be stupid to assist in diverting pax from your own flights.

PA515
 
DavidJ08
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:43 pm

That's quite a few different topics being raised there, 7 consecutive posts on 7 different topics...

planemanofnz wrote:
Sure, "tend to be," but you know that NZ already codeshares with GZ on turbo-prop flights, right? In fact, those GZ flights are operated by the SAAB340, which is what CV would be using to PPQ. Oh, and that NZ - GZ code-sharing relationship dates back to May 2007, so I'm not quite sure how NZ could turn down S8's code-share offer three years ago on the grounds of technology - unless GZ had some massively superior booking system than S8's (which I doubt).

There's a couple of things going on here:
1) I don't think anywhere in the article NZ said specifically that THE reason they've turned it down is technology. They might be drawing attention towards technology but it could also be that they just don't want to (and are deliberately drawing attention to technology as a diversion.) Or it could be baggage handling logistics or any part of the logistic chain involved in getting people and luggage checked-through to another flight. I found a comment from PA515 in an older NZ Aviation thread which is relevant: "After the crash of Kiwi West Beech Queenair ZK-TIK in Mar 1995, Air NZ said they would not codeshare with a third level operator again."

2) In terms of a commercial strategy, GZ is a destination carrier. It may be small but it's a destination partner that allows NZ to market flights deeper into the Cook Islands (e.g. Aitutaki which I've heard lots of good things about), and GZ doesn't really compete with NZ. S8 on the other hand is a small domestic carrier, operating a number of flights NZ stopped, and also two competing routes (WLG-NSN and WLG-BHE). Aside from the natural unwillingness to cooperate with rivals, I'd also question how the Commerce Commission would view such cooperation - on WLG-BHE NZ and S8 are the only two operators, and on WLG-NSN the third operator, JQ, would likely cry foul if they perceived any cooperation between NZ and S8. I'm also not sure if NZ would really gain anything solid from such cooperation - if someone were to fly out of WSZ, and go to say Hamilton, then it's sort of a given that they'll fly S8 to WLG then NZ to HLZ, and I wouldn't have thought the ability to check their luggage through to HLZ would play a major role in their decision/need to fly? Seems to me like the mayors quoted just want Koru lounge access and luggage checked-through next time they fly. (Lounge access is another tricky point if it was being proposed as part of an interline deal - will it be for NZ Gold/Elite/Koru status pax who happen to fly on S8 next? Or will S8 get to send their select customers in regardless of their status or lack thereof with NZ?)

Side note: I did notice one quote from Buller district mayor Garry Howard: "Air New Zealand has lost its status as our national carrier because it's not a provincial service provider, it has decided to it's a volume provider out of the cities and I personally believe they will regret this." Seems Mr Howard is also unaware of NZ being a business with responsibility to shareholders (including the government at 53% shareholding) to make financially sound decisions to maximize profit and dividend, and not a non-profit organisation that runs a subsidised public service.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:07 pm

PA515 wrote:
Air NZ does not compete with GZ.

DavidJ08 wrote:
GZ doesn't really compete with NZ.

NZ is capable of structuring code-shares to carve out competing routes - for example, NZ code-shares with FJ on NAN - LAX, but not on NAN - New Zealand.

Cheers,

C.
 
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mariner
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:20 pm

DavidJ08 wrote:
Side note: I did notice one quote from Buller district mayor Garry Howard: "Air New Zealand has lost its status as our national carrier because it's not a provincial service provider, it has decided to it's a volume provider out of the cities and I personally believe they will regret this." Seems Mr Howard is also unaware of NZ being a business with responsibility to shareholders (including the government at 53% shareholding) to make financially sound decisions to maximize profit and dividend, and not a non-profit organisation that runs a subsidised public service.


He's the mayor of Buller District, which includes Westport, so I'm not at all surprised that his comments reflect his district.

I am more concerned by the several broadsides launched by Shane Jones - the Minster for Regional Economic Development. Air NZ is headquartered in Auckland and - no matter what is paid out - all goodies initially flow to there, which doesn't do much for the regions.

Sounds Air is headquartered in Koromiko/Picton, which has Sounds Air as the only commercial tenant and the "airport park" residential development next to the airfield is owned by Sounds. Great for the regional economy.

It gets better. No matter where their operations are, Chathams Air is headquartered in the Chatham Islands. Great for the regional economy.

Yet the Minister for Regional Economic Development wants it all to flow to Air NZ, which will only grow the hegemony of Auckland. I scratch my head.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:53 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
DL I’d imagine if anything codeshare with VA ...

Why do you say that?

Given DL's global reach, New Zealand is definitely a hole in their network, which VA really only poorly serves for them on a code-share basis. The hole is all the more noticeable, now that AA, HA and UA all serve AKL with their own metal. Aside from SEA - SYD, I see one of ATL / JFK / SEA - AKL as DL's strongest opportunity in Australasia, particularly given 1) the JV with VA already covering LAX well, and 2) the inability to serve Australia from ATL / NYC (with them being longer than DOH - AKL).

I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of others as to which hub out of those highlighted above would suit DL most for an AKL service. IMO, SEA would make less sense, given its size and lack of differentiation from anything Australasia already has (it's just another west coast destination). While DL's biggest hub is at ATL, it's also NYC's largest carrier, and NYC would offer greater O&D traffic and yield than ATL. That being said, it'd also be more expensive to operate from NYC, given the greater distance.

Some further points for discussion:

- I assume that both the 77L and the 359 could do these routes profitably for DL?
- Would VA would be willing to extend their JV to the New Zealand - US market?
- How much would the lack of domestic AKL connections be a hindrance to DL?

Image

Cheers,

C.


Sorry to be clear codeshare with VA as part of their JV if allowed DL operated, I don’t see VA running AKL-US.
 
DavidJ08
Posts: 85
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:28 am

mariner wrote:
He's the mayor of Buller District, which includes Westport, so I'm not at all surprised that his comments reflect his district.

I am more concerned by the several broadsides launched by Shane Jones - the Minster for Regional Economic Development. Air NZ is headquartered in Auckland and - no matter what is paid out - all goodies initially flow to there, which doesn't do much for the regions.

Sounds Air is headquartered in Koromiko/Picton, which has Sounds Air as the only commercial tenant and the "airport park" residential development next to the airfield is owned by Sounds. Great for the regional economy.

It gets better. No matter where their operations are, Chathams Air is headquartered in the Chatham Islands. Great for the regional economy.

Yet the Minister for Regional Economic Development wants it all to flow to Air NZ, which will only grow the hegemony of Auckland. I scratch my head.

:D
That is an excellent point! I hope someone tells that to Mr Jones.
 
A350OZ
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:20 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:31 am

mariner wrote:
I am more concerned by the several broadsides launched by Shane Jones - the Minster for Regional Economic Development. Air NZ is headquartered in Auckland and - no matter what is paid out - all goodies initially flow to there, which doesn't do much for the regions.

Sounds Air is headquartered in Koromiko/Picton, which has Sounds Air as the only commercial tenant and the "airport park" residential development next to the airfield is owned by Sounds. Great for the regional economy.

It gets better. No matter where their operations are, Chathams Air is headquartered in the Chatham Islands. Great for the regional economy.

Yet the Minister for Regional Economic Development wants it all to flow to Air NZ, which will only grow the hegemony of Auckland. I scratch my head.

mariner


I agree 100% that this is ridiculous given his portfolio. He should stand up for the small regional players and use NZ's weakness in the regions to support the small operators to fill this gap and successfully develop their own business and the regions they support. But he is probably more concerned about his Airpoints Elite status and Koru Club access...
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 2708
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:37 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Sorry to be clear codeshare with VA as part of their JV if allowed DL operated, I don’t see VA running AKL-US.

I don't see why VA would be opposed to merely code-sharing with DL on AKL - US, but extending the metal-neutral DL - VA JV to AKL - US is what I think they'd be more nervous about.

I agree that VA would never use their own metal on long-haul ex-AKL, given how limited their 77W's and 332's are (unless they expand their fleet in the future). DL would have to do this.

Cheers,

C.
 
Gasman
Posts: 1763
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:54 am

mariner wrote:
DavidJ08 wrote:
Side note: I did notice one quote from Buller district mayor Garry Howard: "Air New Zealand has lost its status as our national carrier because it's not a provincial service provider, it has decided to it's a volume provider out of the cities and I personally believe they will regret this." Seems Mr Howard is also unaware of NZ being a business with responsibility to shareholders (including the government at 53% shareholding) to make financially sound decisions to maximize profit and dividend, and not a non-profit organisation that runs a subsidised public service.


He's the mayor of Buller District, which includes Westport, so I'm not at all surprised that his comments reflect his district.

I am more concerned by the several broadsides launched by Shane Jones - the Minster for Regional Economic Development. Air NZ is headquartered in Auckland and - no matter what is paid out - all goodies initially flow to there, which doesn't do much for the regions.

Sounds Air is headquartered in Koromiko/Picton, which has Sounds Air as the only commercial tenant and the "airport park" residential development next to the airfield is owned by Sounds. Great for the regional economy.

It gets better. No matter where their operations are, Chathams Air is headquartered in the Chatham Islands. Great for the regional economy.

Yet the Minister for Regional Economic Development wants it all to flow to Air NZ, which will only grow the hegemony of Auckland. I scratch my head.

mariner

It's drawing a very long bow to suggest that as Champion of the Regions, Shane Jones should embrace the pullout of NZ's services because it might create a vacuum which might be filled by a regional operator which might divert economic activity away from Auckland. All things considered, I think they'd just rather have the service.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 2708
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:55 am

MoneyHub has revealed New Zealand's cheapest and most expensive domestic flights, on a per KM basis:

- Auckland to Christchurch - 6.6 cents/KM (on Jetstar) - cheapest
- Invercargill to Stewart Island - $1.81/KM (on Stewart Island Flights) - most expensive

See: https://www.moneyhub.co.nz/cheap-new-ze ... ights.html.

In absolute terms, flights to the Chathams are the most expensive. This may change, if CV gets 737's. :crossfingers:

Cheers,

C.
 
CHI2DFW
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 1:44 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:02 am

How would AKL-ATL survive? AKL-DFW makes more sense, and seasonal at best.
 
PA515
Posts: 1236
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:08 am

The three ex Air NZ 763s sold to 30West and stored at ASP could be leaving soon.

N930WE (ex ZK-NCJ, L/N 574) has been on sold to ATSG Inc for freighter conversion. ATSG is the parent company of Cargo Aircraft Management
http://www.30wjets.com/transactions

N730WE (ex ZK-NCG, L/N 509) and N830WE (ex ZK-NCI, L/N 558) are 'Under Contract' probably to the same buyer.
http://www.30wjets.com/available-aircraft

30West is a small operator and I wondered if they would get a better price for them.

PA515
Last edited by PA515 on Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1308
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:12 am

CHI2DFW wrote:
How would AKL-ATL survive? AKL-DFW makes more sense, and seasonal at best.


I’d love, i repeat, would LOVE to see DFW-AKL, even though it would likely only be seasonal.

If UA can make IAH-SYD work year round (which remains to be seen) along with NZ IAH-AKL, then an AA DFW-AKL to compliment QF’s DFW-SYD flight should work if the jv goes through.
 
concordianSYD
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:35 am

Two regional NZ flights that stick out somewhat as being ripe for cutting are PMR-HLZ and PMR-WLG. I don’t know the loads on these sectors but PMR-HLZ is fairly unique being non-hub at either end, and PMR-WLG, while further distance and not as well served by road is ‘similar’ to the old HLZ-AKL. Palmerston is well served in terms of destinations (four) and I wouldn’t be surprised if one day one or both of these get cut. Does anyone agree / disagree?
Concord is simply my home, sadly not a reference to a plane I’ve flown.
 
CHI2DFW
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 1:44 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:42 am

ADrum23 wrote:
CHI2DFW wrote:
How would AKL-ATL survive? AKL-DFW makes more sense, and seasonal at best.


I’d love, i repeat, would LOVE to see DFW-AKL, even though it would likely only be seasonal.

If UA can make IAH-SYD work year round (which remains to be seen) along with NZ IAH-AKL, then an AA DFW-AKL to compliment QF’s DFW-SYD flight should work if the jv goes through.


If the JV is approved, DFW-AKL and ORD-BNE seem possible (I think QF will do BNE-ORD interim until they have aircraft that can do SYD-ORD nonstop). QF/AA won’t sceed OZ/NZ to NZ/UA. Game on!
 
7seven7nz
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:44 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:34 am

concordianSYD wrote:
Two regional NZ flights that stick out somewhat as being ripe for cutting are PMR-HLZ and PMR-WLG. I don’t know the loads on these sectors but PMR-HLZ is fairly unique being non-hub at either end, and PMR-WLG, while further distance and not as well served by road is ‘similar’ to the old HLZ-AKL. Palmerston is well served in terms of destinations (four) and I wouldn’t be surprised if one day one or both of these get cut. Does anyone agree / disagree?


They have already stopped this route in the weekends and it doesn't fly from mid-December to late January each year so it seems to be heavily business reliant. I've taken it a few times - WLG -PMR and return and it seems to be reasonably busy. I'm always surprised how many disembark in PMR from HAM.
 
axio
Posts: 221
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:44 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:50 am

concordianSYD wrote:
Two regional NZ flights that stick out somewhat as being ripe for cutting are PMR-HLZ and PMR-WLG. I don’t know the loads on these sectors but PMR-HLZ is fairly unique being non-hub at either end, and PMR-WLG, while further distance and not as well served by road is ‘similar’ to the old HLZ-AKL. Palmerston is well served in terms of destinations (four) and I wouldn’t be surprised if one day one or both of these get cut. Does anyone agree / disagree?


PMR-WLG is important for feed to NSN and BHE. Remove that flight and you're giving PMR/Upper-South-Island to someone else.
PMR-HLZ is an old Eagle Air flight and has been around with multiple weekday frequencies for 30+ years. I think if there wasn't significant demand there it wouldn't be flying and - as an earlier poster noted - it's business focused, so probably yields quite well.
Time for a new viewing deck at AKL!
 
DavidJ08
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:18 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:50 am

concordianSYD wrote:
Two regional NZ flights that stick out somewhat as being ripe for cutting are PMR-HLZ and PMR-WLG. I don’t know the loads on these sectors but PMR-HLZ is fairly unique being non-hub at either end, and PMR-WLG, while further distance and not as well served by road is ‘similar’ to the old HLZ-AKL. Palmerston is well served in terms of destinations (four) and I wouldn’t be surprised if one day one or both of these get cut. Does anyone agree / disagree?

They actually run those with the same airframe - as in WLG-PMR-HLZ, and HLZ-PMR-WLG, marketing as a one-stop (20min stopover in PMR) WLG-HLZ serice as well as the WLG-PMR and PMR-HLZ legs separately. In addition the WLG-PMR leg is marketed for one-stop flights between PMR and many other destinations (I've verified these: ZQN, DUD, TIU, CHC, NSN, BHE, GIS, NPL, TRG, ROT).

When I took the WLG-PMR flight (as part of a one-stop CHC-PMR ticket) I was one of about 10 people that actually got off at PMR (out of a completely full Q300 - but it was 2 days after a storm in WLG so all flights were packed full of disrupted pax anyway - not a representative sample), while the rest of the plane just stayed on during the 20-min stopover in PMR. Another few people got on to take our places on the plane before it left again for HLZ.

I think the ability to offer (often expensive) connections through WLG might help keep the PMR-WLG segment, and being part of a WLG-HLZ flight will keep the costs down. The day might come when it stops being worthwhile though, and at that point I think both HLZ and WLG will be cut together (and the flight will probably become a direct WLG-HLZ flight).
 
Obzerva
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:48 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:37 am

 
planemanofnz
Posts: 2708
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:53 am

The NZ-VA alliance ending was predictable, but what I find interesting is VA's comment that may imply TT might be used to New Zealand:

... John Borghetti saying the move "provides opportunities for the Virgin Australia Group on the Tasman, including both the Virgin Australia and Tigerair Australia brands in the market".

I wonder if we may see VA build on its BNE - DUD flight, with more secondary New Zealand services using the TT brand (HLZ, PMR etc).

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 2708
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:32 am

CHI2DFW wrote:
I think QF will do BNE-ORD interim until they have aircraft that can do SYD-ORD nonstop

Purely IMHO, but NZ launching AKL - ORD will be a big disincentive for QF launching ORD, unless from SYD or MEL.

CHI2DFW wrote:
How would AKL-ATL survive?

ATL itself is a big city, with its own O&D traffic - it's 4th in the number of Fortune 500 companies headquartered within its city limits (behind NYC, IAH and DFW). Many of these companies have a large presence in Australasia, like The Coca-Cola Company. Other than that, this specific route would be supported by:

- DL's ATL hub (the biggest in the world) providing market-leading connectivity here, most notably to the huge SkyTeam FFP base in the US
- The VA Group's AKL presence, which is likely to be bolstered in some shape, after the ending of the NZ alliance (including maybe with TT)
- DL's new fuel-efficient 359's, which would lower operating costs on this ULH flight considerably, and provide more comfort than NZ's 789's

Cheers,

C.
 
Kashmon
Posts: 476
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:08 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:58 am

uh
DL and NZ are not partners
ATL may be a big hub but it is a pathetic International hub....
 
zkncj
Posts: 2715
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:15 am

What would the chances of AKL-OOL becoming an 77E or 789 service with the VA friendship gone?

Could AKL really handle anymore AM peak 777/787s from NZ?
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2348
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:48 am

Hi guys from across the Tasman. From the Aussie point of view, my guess is this is NZ trying to push and protect it's North America network. VA isn't doing the best job with it, but they have become increasingly hostile. With Brisbane and Melbourne both being not daily to LAX there's only one city in Australia that is served in any kind of competitive fashion and that's SYD. Which of course has the most competition. Anybody who's connected in AKL before knows how much easier it is than SYD, plus it's all airside so the hassles are taken away with security etc. VA are trying to be all things to all ppl and not particularly doing anything that well. They'll be bitter about it though. Fully expect Tiger to turn up. But if NZ can focus on connecting to the Americas... it won't make much difference. They may need to adjust their short haul product to better reflect this though. And maybe add a few more cities like CBR, HBA and TSV. It doesn't have to be daily but at least try fly on the days IAH operates as that will ensure maximum connectivity. Good Luck.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 2708
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:19 am

Lufthansa wrote:
Fully expect Tiger to turn up.

Yes, and it'll be interesting to see in what shape they do so, such as:

- Replacing all of VA's existing New Zealand services (given now potential lack of lounge access in New Zealand eroding VA's 'full-service')
- Expanding the VA Group's New Zealand presence, by serving secondary cities like HLZ, PMR or ROT (VA already serves DUD from BNE)

IMO, there are also other possibilities arising from this venture's end:

- NZ may tackle the loss of feed from secondary Australia by starting services ex-AKL to the likes of CBR, HBA, NTL and TSV to start with
- VA (more JB) may seek retribution by expanding its DL JV to New Zealand, and encouraging DL to serve AKL, taking on NZ's dominance

Interesting times! :stirthepot:

Cheers,

C.
 
User avatar
Birdiey
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:22 am

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=12026073

"This prompted Virgin to warn that it too may expand across the Tasman and possibly use its budget arm, Tigerair, in this country."
He told the Herald Tigerair was building up its fleet of Boeing 737s which he said would give it the flexibility to fly the Tasman and within the New Zealand domestic market.

''Our willingness and strength is to be as competitive as possible on any route whether it be on the Tasman or anywhere else. We were we thought with a good alliance partner and now we won't be. When we're not we will compete very vigorously.'' Through Pacific Blue, Virgin has flown domestically in New Zealand before. Borghetti said Tiger, which has a low cost base, could play a very ''important role.''

Tiger Air coming to New Zealand?
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