American to bring premium 757 to domestic routes

ahj2000 · Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:54 pm

https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... on-routes/

Following Delta, JetBlue, and United (although I’m fairly certain they just use theirs on LA-NY/BOS and SF-NY). Not mentioned is the where.I could see:

1) MIA-LAX (and maybe SFO) -return to a previously premium route
2) DCA-LAX/SFO -to counter Delta and pit a more competitive aircraft on this route.
3) BOS-LAX/SFO - quite competitive already with three other carriers doing the live flat thing there
4) something out of DFW - KEF, LIM, MIA, and ANC will be the only 757 routes this summer if I remember correctly. Could use them to grow the base

American 767 · Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:32 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2018/03/27/american-confirms-theyre-planning-lie-flat-757s-transcon-routes/

Following Delta, JetBlue, and United (although I’m fairly certain they just use theirs on LA-NY/BOS and SF-NY). Not mentioned is the where.I could see:

SFO-BOS also.

ahj2000 wrote:
2) DCA-LAX/SFO -to counter Delta and pit a more competitive aircraft on this route.
3) BOS-LAX/SFO - quite competitive already with three other carriers doing the live flat thing there

From DCA and BOS, American doesn't fly direct to SFO.
And what about IAD-LAX?

It looks like, if they do this, there will be no more TATL flight on the 757 out of JFK or PHL. And no more MIA-South America flight on the 757 either. Interesting to note that MIA-JFK-MIA will still see the 757 at least 2x daily in each direction.

flyguy84 · Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:40 pm

All of United’s 752s have lie-flat business seating. The sUA former “ps” birds have 28 business seats while the sCO ETOPS birds have 16. So they’re not exclusive to any certain markets.

WWads · Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:49 pm

DCA-LAX is big news. If both flights each day are lie-flat 757s, DL could be in trouble.

tphuang · Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:50 pm

If this happens, jfk San and jfk sea for sure. I am guessing bos/mia lax also. They are getting hammered by JetBlue on some of these routes.

wenders825 · Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:01 pm

AA isn't starting BOS/DCA-SFO any time soon, especially not on the 757.

JFK-SEA/SAN/PHX will likely be the starters. can see BOS/MIA-LAX as said above as well. DCA-LAX would be a nice strike back at DL.

Austin787 · Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:01 pm

If true, I could see those aircraft going on routes where the competition also has lie flats. Such as: LAX-DCA/BOS, MIA-LAX/SFO (to counter JetBlue out of FLL).

PlanesNTrains · Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:04 pm

Let the games begin (or continue).

airbazar · Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:20 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
3) BOS-LAX/SFO - quite competitive already with three other carriers doing the live flat thing there

Don't see LAX-BOS going to 757. They tried the A321T this past Winter. I'm curious if it was successful.

flyingclrs727 · Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:31 pm

So is there no time to obtain additional A321 transcon configured, or is AA trying to establish a lower level of transcon service without international first class seating. Also, could this mean AA could be in the market for A321Neo LR's to replace 757's on transatlantic flights?

asuflyer · Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:53 pm

They are playing catch-up as DL already has free meals on JFK-SEA, PDX and SAN in addition to SFO and LAX. DL's and UA's 757's are arguably nicer as they have PTV's. If anything this to give AA's FF more reason to stay. B6's Mint product has really changed the market up both service and price wise. AS will then be left will be the weakest product out there.

MIflyer12 · Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:55 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
So is there no time to obtain additional A321 transcon configured, or is AA trying to establish a lower level of transcon service without international first class seating. Also, could this mean AA could be in the market for A321Neo LR's to replace 757's on transatlantic flights?

I don't see those as factors at all. IMHO, this is a short-term attempt to stunt B6 and AS on long-haul domestic routes that are important to AA. MIA-LAX? You bet. BOS-LAX? I'm not so sure.

Swadian · Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:14 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
So is there no time to obtain additional A321 transcon configured, or is AA trying to establish a lower level of transcon service without international first class seating. Also, could this mean AA could be in the market for A321Neo LR's to replace 757's on transatlantic flights?

They don't have any more A321s coming until 2019 and some of those could be A321T to beef up these transcontinental routes. Not that many 757s are required for International and the slack could be used for these flights. I think we'll see the 757 stay on DFW-LIM/ANC/KEF/MIA as well as JFK-EDI/DUB and MIA-BSB/VVI/UIO.

AA is currently still flying international 757s on AUA-CLT, MIA-BOS/EGE/MBJ/MCO, DFW-PHL/EGE, JFK-EGE/PAP/PUP, PHL-SJU etc.; these planes could be redeployed.

AA has no A321LR on order and the A321neos coming have CFM engines which supposedly result in less range than the PW GTF engines.

AA is already putting 757s on MIA-SFO in April so we can expect that to stay.

aaflyer777 · Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:52 pm

I think we'll see the 757s on BOS-LAX at some point. AA seems to be defending this route pretty fiercely (they're up to 6x daily this summer).

OKCDCA · Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:58 pm

WWads wrote:
DCA-LAX is big news. If both flights each day are lie-flat 757s, DL could be in trouble.

Of course this gets announced a few days after I decide to leave DC and take a new job. Flew the route three times last year on AA and it while I haven't flown it once this year, had I stayed in my current job, was fixing to be on it at least once a month for the next few months. It will definitely be nice competition to DL's product.

tphuang wrote:
If this happens, jfk San and jfk sea for sure. I am guessing bos/mia lax also. They are getting hammered by JetBlue on some of these routes.

With the way AA has been down sizing JFK, I'd very skeptical to see them deploy a premium product like this on any route out of there, especially to SEA. They've clearly made the decision to let B6 and DL duke it out at JFK.

ahj2000 wrote:
2) DCA-LAX/SFO -to counter Delta and pit a more competitive aircraft on this route.
3) BOS-LAX/SFO - quite competitive already with three other carriers doing the live flat thing there

AA isn't getting into DCA-SFO. They doubled down on LAX after the merger with the acquisition of the second perimeter slot from US moving the flight from SAN to LAX. The only place that slot would move is back to SAN in my opinion and there is a >1% chance of that ever happening. They've down sized BOS quite a bit as well so I wouldn't be holding my breath to see if they go after BOS-SFO

flyguy84 · Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:03 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2018/03/27/american-confirms-theyre-planning-lie-flat-757s-transcon-routes/

Following Delta, JetBlue, and United (although I’m fairly certain they just use theirs on LA-NY/BOS and SF-NY). Not mentioned is the where.I could see:

1) MIA-LAX (and maybe SFO) -return to a previously premium route
2) DCA-LAX/SFO -to counter Delta and pit a more competitive aircraft on this route.
3) BOS-LAX/SFO - quite competitive already with three other carriers doing the live flat thing there
4) something out of DFW - KEF, LIM, MIA, and ANC will be the only 757 routes this summer if I remember correctly. Could use them to grow the base

DL does NOT operate DCA-SFO

Runway28L · Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:58 pm

There was literally a thread just recently with a link saying that management has no plans in additional P2P flying.

So by that logic BOS/DCA-SFO can be ruled out.

FSDan · Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:00 pm

OKCDCA wrote:
WWads wrote:
DCA-LAX is big news. If both flights each day are lie-flat 757s, DL could be in trouble.

Nothing has actually been announced other than that *eventually* they are looking to move 757s to more domestic service. As far as I'm aware, no timelines or destinations have been formally announced by anyone representing AA.

For what it's worth, here are the currently loaded 757 routes for the summer schedule (I'm looking at Monday, 6/18 for reference):

Domestic 757
PHX-SAN
PHX-DCA
PHX-CUN
PHX-LIH
PHX-HNL
PHX-OGG
PHX-KOA

International 757
DFW-ANC
DFW-MIA
DFW-PHL
DFW-LIM
DFW-KEF
MIA-DFW
MIA-ORD
MIA-JFK
MIA-STT
MIA-CCS
MIA-LIM
MIA-LPB-VVI-MIA
MIA-BSB
PHL-MIA
PHL-BOS
PHL-SNN
PHL-GLA
JFK-MIA
JFK-PUJ
JFK-DUB
JFK-EDI

As far as I can tell, the June schedules are fairly set at this point. I'd be surprised to see major changes in fleet deployment strategy before late summer or Fall. That said, the utilization of the 757 fleets is pretty low, especially for the international fleet. On the domestic side, 8 out of 10 frames are needed to operate the loaded schedule, while on the international side, only 16 of 24 frames are needed.

jbs2886 · Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:02 pm

Runway28L wrote:
There was literally a thread just recently with a link saying that management has no plans in additional P2P flying.

So by that logic BOS/DCA-SFO can be ruled out.

You do realize DCA is an AA hub?

Austin787 · Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:06 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
There was literally a thread just recently with a link saying that management has no plans in additional P2P flying.

So by that logic BOS/DCA-SFO can be ruled out.

You do realize DCA is an AA hub?

DCA-SFO is outside the perimeter, so AA would need to either request an additional perimeter exemption, or drop an existing outside-perimeter flight to start DCA-SFO.

jbs2886 · Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:08 pm

Austin787 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
There was literally a thread just recently with a link saying that management has no plans in additional P2P flying.

So by that logic BOS/DCA-SFO can be ruled out.

You do realize DCA is an AA hub?

DCA-SFO is outside the perimeter, so AA would need to either request an additional perimeter exemption, or drop an existing outside-perimeter flight to start DCA-SFO.

I'm aware of that; however, the poster's comment was that DCA-SFO is a P2P route. It is not. I'm not sure what relevance your post has in response to mine. Moreover, it is discussed above.

Runway28L · Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:48 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
There was literally a thread just recently with a link saying that management has no plans in additional P2P flying.

So by that logic BOS/DCA-SFO can be ruled out.

You do realize DCA is an AA hub?

Yes, I ruled DCA out because of slots and the perimeter rule.

I should've been more specific on that part so my apologies.

VC10er · Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:10 am

Is there a trend starting with premium configured (bed seats) aircraft on many domestic flights outside of the traditional NYC/SFO/LAX and Hawaii?
It seems that every time I go to book a flight there is “almost” at least one flight that is a 752, 767 or HD 777. They often are not on a schedule that suits when I need to travel- but when it is, I cannot help but book myself in F domestically in order to get a flat bed seat if over 4 hours.

grbauc · Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:37 am

VC10er wrote:
Is there a trend starting with premium configured (bed seats) aircraft on many domestic flights outside of the traditional NYC/SFO/LAX and Hawaii?
It seems that every time I go to book a flight there is “almost” at least one flight that is a 752, 767 or HD 777. They often are not on a schedule that suits when I need to travel- but when it is, I cannot help but book myself in F domestically in order to get a flat bed seat if over 4 hours.

Yep me too I refuse to sit in the crap tight first class lounge chairs for more then 4 hours if I can find a better seat on a not so optimal time. Ive stopped playing the upgrade game a while ago and book the airline with the best seat also.

Zidane · Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:23 am

Swadian wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
AA is currently still flying international 757s on AUA-CLT, MIA-BOS/EGE/MBJ/MCO, DFW-PHL/EGE, JFK-EGE/PAP/PUP, PHL-SJU etc.; these planes could be redeployed.

There's also MIA-UVF. She'll be swapped with the B738 in May, sad to see her go in my neck of the woods.

ericm2031 · Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:39 am

Might seem like a dumb question, but do many people even need lie-flats on day time flights? To me it seems like unless you're on a redeye, lie-flats wouldn't be that necessary.

n7371f · Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:59 am

Lol. Ever been on an AA 757 and then a DL 75S? AA sucks. They'll do the bare minimum in refurb's. I'll believe it when I see it!

WWads wrote:
DCA-LAX is big news. If both flights each day are lie-flat 757s, DL could be in trouble.

TW870 · Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:00 am

ericm2031 wrote:
Might seem like a dumb question, but do many people even need lie-flats on day time flights? To me it seems like unless you're on a redeye, lie-flats wouldn't be that necessary.

It is not a dumb question at all, and my guess is that few people use the lie-flat sleep feature. But what does differentiate the product is that choice is between either an international configured aircraft (a lie-flat 757 or A321T) and a regular domestic aircraft (738, 321, etc.) The domestic aircraft all have a very tight first class with very limited personal space and very basic food options. The lie flat gives you privacy and storage, which some people are willing to pay for. Plus in some cases there is an upgraded soft product. On DL's lie-flat service on BOS-SFO and DCA-LAX, for example, it is full Delta One international service with multi-course meals, amenity kits, and the full Alessi product design. If I had the money I would definitely book the Delta One service for a daylight flight and I would never plan on using the lie-flat seat.

N62NA · Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:49 pm

TW870 wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
Might seem like a dumb question, but do many people even need lie-flats on day time flights? To me it seems like unless you're on a redeye, lie-flats wouldn't be that necessary.

It is not a dumb question at all, and my guess is that few people use the lie-flat sleep feature. But what does differentiate the product is that choice is between either an international configured aircraft (a lie-flat 757 or A321T) and a regular domestic aircraft (738, 321, etc.) The domestic aircraft all have a very tight first class with very limited personal space and very basic food options. The lie flat gives you privacy and storage, which some people are willing to pay for. Plus in some cases there is an upgraded soft product. On DL's lie-flat service on BOS-SFO and DCA-LAX, for example, it is full Delta One international service with multi-course meals, amenity kits, and the full Alessi product design. If I had the money I would definitely book the Delta One service for a daylight flight and I would never plan on using the lie-flat seat.

Exactly. The privacy is well worth it, especially when some of these transcons in the winter can exceed 6 hours flying time.

tphuang · Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:06 pm

n7371f wrote:
Lol. Ever been on an AA 757 and then a DL 75S? AA sucks. They'll do the bare minimum in refurb's. I'll believe it when I see it!

WWads wrote:
DCA-LAX is big news. If both flights each day are lie-flat 757s, DL could be in trouble.

Dl will definitely be in trouble. It’s a hub to hub route for aa. Their q3 avg fare was lower than aa despite using a much higher cost and better product.

It will be similar to bos sfo where I think DL has a better product than ua 8 across j seat, but ua has much higher yield right now because of their sfo point of sale.

I think all aa really needs is one of these 757s a day on dca/bos/mia lax.

ericm2031 wrote:
Might seem like a dumb question, but do many people even need lie-flats on day time flights? To me it seems like unless you're on a redeye, lie-flats wouldn't be that necessary.

for me, it's totally worth it. The privacy, space and comfort level and meal service. Especially now that B6 has made these things so affordable.

reffado · Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:07 pm

American 767 wrote:
It looks like, if they do this, there will be no more TATL flight on the 757 out of JFK or PHL. And no more MIA-South America flight on the 757 either. Interesting to note that MIA-JFK-MIA will still see the 757 at least 2x daily in each direction.

Interested in seeing how this plays out - would this possibly result in pulling out of some 757-operated routes in South America?

FSDan · Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:23 pm

tphuang wrote:
n7371f wrote:
Lol. Ever been on an AA 757 and then a DL 75S? AA sucks. They'll do the bare minimum in refurb's. I'll believe it when I see it!

WWads wrote:
DCA-LAX is big news. If both flights each day are lie-flat 757s, DL could be in trouble.

Dl will definitely be in trouble. It’s a hub to hub route for aa. Their q3 avg fare was lower than aa despite using a much higher cost and better product.

Will DL really be in trouble on a major route that is artificially capped at 3x daily flights total across all carriers? I doubt it. AA will surely command a premium with their better frequency and a hub+FF base on both ends, but if DL can't make money flying from LAX to D.C.'s preferred airport with essentially guaranteed limits on competition, it's amazing they are making money at all...

Austin787 · Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:52 pm

FSDan wrote:
tphuang wrote:
n7371f wrote:
Lol. Ever been on an AA 757 and then a DL 75S? AA sucks. They'll do the bare minimum in refurb's. I'll believe it when I see it!

Dl will definitely be in trouble. It’s a hub to hub route for aa. Their q3 avg fare was lower than aa despite using a much higher cost and better product.

Will DL really be in trouble on a major route that is artificially capped at 3x daily flights total across all carriers? I doubt it. AA will surely command a premium with their better frequency and a hub+FF base on both ends, but if DL can't make money flying from LAX to D.C.'s preferred airport with essentially guaranteed limits on competition, it's amazing they are making money at all...

Assuming AA puts lie flats on LAX-DCA, I would think it would impact Alaska more than Delta. With lie flats, both AA and DL will likely be able to generate higher premiums over Alaska's standard domestic first seat, especially since Alaska has a smaller market share out of LAX and DCA.

MIflyer12 · Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:03 pm

FSDan wrote:
Will DL really be in trouble on a major route that is artificially capped at 3x daily flights total across all carriers? I doubt it. AA will surely command a premium with their better frequency and a hub+FF base on both ends, but if DL can't make money flying from LAX to D.C.'s preferred airport with essentially guaranteed limits on competition, it's amazing they are making money at all...

Yep!

PennPal · Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:05 pm

Quite a testament to the 757 that it's still playing a significant role in the route planning of major domestic carriers 13 years after its production run ended. And Delta's are in magnificent condition!!

VC10er · Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:05 pm

I am unfamiliar with AA’s fleet and seats, but UA its very easy to know if you will get a lie flat seat or not, a 752 or 767 or 777. It doesn’t necessarily cost more to get a bed seat, sometimes it’s less than F on a 737. But 4+ hours I will cough up the extra money for a few reasons. 1: I will recline and nap even during daylight flights (I’m like a cat), 2: to earn 1k I have to spend $12k in 12 months. And I like my status.
Food is entirely unimportant to me. If it’s edible then I’m ok.
I did think that AA’s ahead of UA in the total number of lie flat seats in their enormous fleet- but I could be wrong.

MIflyer12 · Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:07 pm

FSDan wrote:
International 757
DFW-ANC
DFW-MIA
DFW-PHL
DFW-LIM
DFW-KEF
MIA-DFW
MIA-ORD
MIA-JFK
MIA-STT
MIA-CCS
MIA-LIM
MIA-LPB-VVI-MIA
MIA-BSB
PHL-MIA
PHL-BOS
PHL-SNN
PHL-GLA
JFK-MIA
JFK-PUJ
JFK-DUB
JFK-EDI

A few of those routes are likely to stay 757 for range vs. A321ceos.

VC10er · Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:10 pm

PennPal wrote:
Quite a testament to the 757 that it's still playing a significant role in the route planning of major domestic carriers 13 years after its production run ended. And Delta's are in magnificent condition!!

United’s 752s were getting quite shabby- however my last 2 UA 752 flights in F the seats looked brand new. Made me wonder if UA is replacing them on the 752’s as they come off 777s, or they had additional unused Diamond seats still wrapped in plastic in a warehouse somewhere, or lots of spare parts that can replace the worn out bits and pieces?

twicearound · Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:23 pm

TW870 wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
Might seem like a dumb question, but do many people even need lie-flats on day time flights? To me it seems like unless you're on a redeye, lie-flats wouldn't be that necessary.

It is not a dumb question at all, and my guess is that few people use the lie-flat sleep feature. But what does differentiate the product is that choice is between either an international configured aircraft (a lie-flat 757 or A321T) and a regular domestic aircraft (738, 321, etc.) The domestic aircraft all have a very tight first class with very limited personal space and very basic food options. The lie flat gives you privacy and storage, which some people are willing to pay for. Plus in some cases there is an upgraded soft product. On DL's lie-flat service on BOS-SFO and DCA-LAX, for example, it is full Delta One international service with multi-course meals, amenity kits, and the full Alessi product design. If I had the money I would definitely book the Delta One service for a daylight flight and I would never plan on using the lie-flat seat.

A lot of the soft product enhancements on DL are gone April 1st

tphuang · Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:38 pm

Austin787 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Dl will definitely be in trouble. It’s a hub to hub route for aa. Their q3 avg fare was lower than aa despite using a much higher cost and better product.

Will DL really be in trouble on a major route that is artificially capped at 3x daily flights total across all carriers? I doubt it. AA will surely command a premium with their better frequency and a hub+FF base on both ends, but if DL can't make money flying from LAX to D.C.'s preferred airport with essentially guaranteed limits on competition, it's amazing they are making money at all...

Assuming AA puts lie flats on LAX-DCA, I would think it would impact Alaska more than Delta. With lie flats, both AA and DL will likely be able to generate higher premiums over Alaska's standard domestic first seat, especially since Alaska has a smaller market share out of LAX and DCA.

We will see q4 numbers out soon, but the first quarter is not too encouraging for dl. Their fare was lower than aa and also ua at iAd despite using a much higher cost product. But thing could change over time if some high value customers in la decide to switch over from aa to dl. I would imagine aa would like to defend against that which is why they need to add lie flats to these lax transcon. All they really need is 1 per day. And it would certainly eat into dl yield.

Also I don’t think it will impact Alaska at all since the capacity is not increasing and they already have lowest yield in this market.

airbazar · Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:39 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
Might seem like a dumb question, but do many people even need lie-flats on day time flights? To me it seems like unless you're on a redeye, lie-flats wouldn't be that necessary.

Not for me personally but to operate an eastbound red-eye the plane has to get there somehow

Also noteworthy are the inbound connections for those day-time flights. If I'm flying JFK-LAX I might not find value in a flat bed, but if I'm flying GRU-JFK-LAX, that's a different story.

Swadian · Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:44 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
International 757
...

A few of those routes are likely to stay 757 for range vs. A321ceos.

With very low fleet utilization at 16/24, AA could still keep the South America and Europe 757 flights and just replace all the domestic sectors with A321, leaving more than enough for transcons.

MIA-LAX still gets a 777.

airbazar wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
Might seem like a dumb question, but do many people even need lie-flats on day time flights? To me it seems like unless you're on a redeye, lie-flats wouldn't be that necessary.

Not for me personally but to operate an eastbound red-eye the plane has to get there somehow
Also noteworthy are the inbound connections for those day-time flights. If I'm flying JFK-LAX I might not find value in a flat bed, but if I'm flying GRU-JFK-LAX, that's a different story.

Not sure why one would fly GRU-JFK-LAX when there's direct GRU-LAX. A better example might be MXP-JFK-LAX.

N62NA · Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:56 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
Not mentioned is the where.I could see:

1) MIA-LAX (and maybe SFO) -return to a previously premium route

Not sure they would put them on MIA-LAX.

Yes, B6 does offer Mint from FLL to LAX, but AA has such a monopoly on MIA-LAX that they could probably continue to get away with offering the horrendously uncomfortable (for 5+ hours) domestic F seats on the 32Bs and 738s.

Others have claimed that offering the lounge First Class Dining option and serving an appetizer and ice cream sundae is a sufficient "premium" experience for the route.

Plus, there was talk a few months ago on here that the AA terminal at LAX is no longer configured to be able to handle multiple 757s at this time.

Swadian wrote:
MIA-LAX still gets a 777.
.

Not at all consistently. It seems more often than not, it's all 32B and 738 on MIA-LAX these days.

FSDan · Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:11 pm

Austin787 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Dl will definitely be in trouble. It’s a hub to hub route for aa. Their q3 avg fare was lower than aa despite using a much higher cost and better product.

Will DL really be in trouble on a major route that is artificially capped at 3x daily flights total across all carriers? I doubt it. AA will surely command a premium with their better frequency and a hub+FF base on both ends, but if DL can't make money flying from LAX to D.C.'s preferred airport with essentially guaranteed limits on competition, it's amazing they are making money at all...

Assuming AA puts lie flats on LAX-DCA, I would think it would impact Alaska more than Delta. With lie flats, both AA and DL will likely be able to generate higher premiums over Alaska's standard domestic first seat, especially since Alaska has a smaller market share out of LAX and DCA.

Good call - I had forgotten that AS flies LAX-DCA too! So really there are 4x daily flights, with not much likelihood of additional competition anywhere in the near future. It still doesn't seem to me like a stretch for all 4 of those flights to be profitable given the size of the market and the number of travelers who would much rather fly into DCA than IAD if at all possible.

DL757NYC · Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:26 pm

I wonder if AA will regret parking and or getting rid of the late build aircraft. They parked a 75 that had 14k cycles and 49k hours. Some of similar vintage were snatched up by cargo operators.

LAXLHR · Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:12 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
Might seem like a dumb question, but do many people even need lie-flats on day time flights? To me it seems like unless you're on a redeye, lie-flats wouldn't be that necessary.

YES!

More often than not, we are jumping many time zones over short periods of time. I found myself doing the following itin recently over a 10 day period, and this was not the first time although different routing. LAX-JFK-LAX-HKG-TPE-HKG-LAX-JFK-LAX. Yes, I could've taken TPE-JFK on CI, but at the time I had not decided if I was going to continue to NYC for the meeting or just go home. I was a zombie by the time I hit the last LAX-JFK. Meetings all day until late, then a 6am out of JFK where I slept the whole way back to LA.

A lot of us dash into a city for 1 night, have back to back meetings, then the social crap until late, not back at the hotel until 1am, up at 4, 5 or 6am for the slog out to JFK or (_ _ _) city to fly home. We are exhausted and use that time to sleep through the morning.

Lie Flat seats are a must on transcons. It's not the 1980s anymore.

treebeard787 · Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:56 pm

I'm booked DUB-CLT-PHX in July, and the itinerary is currently showing a 757 on the CLT-PHX leg, curious to see if it will stay on a 757 or if it will be switched out for an A321.

HWC1977 · Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:29 pm

People are just too whiny and hard to please. It's only 4-6 hours. A big leather seat with decent legroom is more than enough. I hate walking down an aisle and seeing everyone laid up like it's the salvation army.

DDR · Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:25 pm

twicearound wrote:
TW870 wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
Might seem like a dumb question, but do many people even need lie-flats on day time flights? To me it seems like unless you're on a redeye, lie-flats wouldn't be that necessary.

A lot of the soft product enhancements on DL are gone April 1st

What soft products are being eliminated?

PEK777 · Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:41 pm

Smart move by AA. The only airliner fit for such routes is the Mighty 757.

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