Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

AirbusA322 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:11 am

Anyone know of a live feed for the arrival?

kearnet · Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:15 am

QF9 is about to pass QF2 over northern Turkey

Waterbomber · Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:27 am

This flight also showcases one of the major challenges of making such routes profitable.
After 12hours it's finally at FL400, even though its only carrying 216pax, less than a fully loaded A321.

On a bad day with strong westerlies and bad weather expected at LHR, you have to block 60 seats for every hour of extended flight.

I give this flight less than a year before it gets shed.

ikolkyo · Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:31 am

Waterbomber wrote:
This flight also showcases one of the major challenges of making such routes profitable.
After 12hours it's finally at FL400, even though its only carrying 216pax, less than a fully loaded A321.

On a bad day with strong westerlies and bad weather expected at LHR, you have to block 60 seats for every hour of extended flight.

I give this flight less than a year before it gets shed.

Or they keep it going and replace the 789 with the eventual winner of the 778/A359ULR battle.

qf789 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:41 am

AirbusA322 wrote:
Anyone know of a live feed for the arrival?

Try Airlive

https://twitter.com/airlivenet/status/9 ... 6409950210

link to livecam

https://t.co/6jgc4tO4FR

RyanairGuru · Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:50 am

Waterbomber wrote:
This flight also showcases one of the major challenges of making such routes profitable.
After 12hours it's finally at FL400, even though its only carrying 216pax, less than a fully loaded A321.

On a bad day with strong westerlies and bad weather expected at LHR, you have to block 60 seats for every hour of extended flight.

I give this flight less than a year before it gets shed.

Maybe you missed it, but Qantas have flown this flight “virtually” every single day for two years based on that days weather, winds etc. They have two years worth of data about how a 789 will perform on this route, and know what the payload limitations will be for almost any given weather event. They know what they’re doing.

And where on earth did you pull 60 blocked seats from? That seems rediculous.

neomax · Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:53 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
Maybe you missed it, but Qantas have flown this flight “virtually” every single day for two years based on that days weather, winds etc. They have two years worth of data about how a 789 will perform on this route, and know what the payload limitations will be for almost any given weather event. They know what they’re doing.

And where on earth did you pull 60 blocked seats from? That seems rediculous.

That's pretty impressive. But how do you know this?

JBusworth · Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:58 am

neomax wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
Maybe you missed it, but Qantas have flown this flight “virtually” every single day for two years based on that days weather, winds etc. They have two years worth of data about how a 789 will perform on this route, and know what the payload limitations will be for almost any given weather event. They know what they’re doing.

And where on earth did you pull 60 blocked seats from? That seems rediculous.

That's pretty impressive. But how do you know this?

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/qantas-f ... b88763630z

It was mentioned at the start of thread.

mast2407 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:06 am

Waterbomber wrote:
This flight also showcases one of the major challenges of making such routes profitable.
After 12hours it's finally at FL400, even though its only carrying 216pax, less than a fully loaded A321.

On a bad day with strong westerlies and bad weather expected at LHR, you have to block 60 seats for every hour of extended flight.

I give this flight less than a year before it gets shed.

Qantas tends to make diversion decisions much earlier in routes given that many of their routes flying pretty large aircraft (A380’s) over large empty expanses of land and ocean can’t just land at the first airport they come across. I highly doubt they’d ever choose to block book 60 seats (reference for this please?) for a flight that is already 17.5 hours long. One simply can’t imagine them flying for 18.5 hours with the last hour In a hold over LHR, or diverting to Manchester, Stanstead or anywhere else. They’d just divert to one of the European airports if there were weather issues in LHR, most likely one of the airports they’ve already got a presence in, or alliance presence in, at the very least. I’d imagine this is part of the reason for leaving the bones of a 9 hour gap between the aircraft arriving and departing LHR.

vhqpa · Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:06 am

Not to mention that distance wise this slots in between QR DOH-AKL and EK DXB-AKL. These have been operating for 1 year and 2 years respectively. You don't hear of these being plauged with tech stops or leaving scores of pax behind. Even with 787-9 flights this is only a couple hundred nm further than UA LAX-SIN.

undertheradar · Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:07 am

Has just ticked over to British Summer Time. It is now 2am, with 3 hrs flying time left, makes for a 5am ish arrival

qf789 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:11 am

JBusworth wrote:
neomax wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
Maybe you missed it, but Qantas have flown this flight “virtually” every single day for two years based on that days weather, winds etc. They have two years worth of data about how a 789 will perform on this route, and know what the payload limitations will be for almost any given weather event. They know what they’re doing.

And where on earth did you pull 60 blocked seats from? That seems rediculous.

That's pretty impressive. But how do you know this?

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/qantas-f ... b88763630z

It was mentioned at the start of thread.

Qantas also analysed a decade (10 years) of seasonal weather patterns in preparation for this new service

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... to-london/

Waterbomber · Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:27 am

ikolkyo wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
This flight also showcases one of the major challenges of making such routes profitable.
After 12hours it's finally at FL400, even though its only carrying 216pax, less than a fully loaded A321.

On a bad day with strong westerlies and bad weather expected at LHR, you have to block 60 seats for every hour of extended flight.

I give this flight less than a year before it gets shed.

Or they keep it going and replace the 789 with the eventual winner of the 778/A359ULR battle.

Yes however those aircraft are overkill for this thin route. They could carry a 300 pax payload but I doubt that they could fill those seats on PER-LHR.
Different aircraft, same empty seats problem.

QF should have put 8 abreast in Y for this route. Westbound they re going to end up blocking seats anyway, so they might as well give the pax more comfort.

They may have run simulations using forecasted weather, those forecasts are just that. Real life high altitude weather is rarely exactly as forecasted, especially when the forecast is issued at least half a day before being there.
In addition, the result of those simulations is 216 pax on a B789, on a day with no unfavorable high altitude winds over Europe.. It's not impressive nor sustainable.

moa999 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:30 am

Waterbomber wrote:

QF should have put 8 abreast in Y for this route. Westbound they re going to end up blocking seats anyway, so they might as well give the pax more comfort.
.

Not that chestnut again.
Incorrect.

travaz · Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:34 am

Please don't take this wrong. I am not aiming it at anyone in particular. I have to chuckle at some of the post on A-Net. QF didn't wake up on the 1st of March and say "Hey how about PER- LHR? Let's give it a go Mate!" I read an article about how complex and software driven route planning is. It is an exhaustive process. The same applies with selection of new Aircraft. There are Terabytes of data available for most decisions Airlines make. QF probably has more or as much experience with long haul planning than anyone else. I am sure that Boeing went all out to help with the planning of this route. I find it quite fascinating.

OOPS was thinking QR for some reason. Corrected post

waoz1 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:35 am

Waterbomber wrote:
This flight also showcases one of the major challenges of making such routes profitable.
After 12hours it's finally at FL400, even though its only carrying 216pax, less than a fully loaded A321.

On a bad day with strong westerlies and bad weather expected at LHR, you have to block 60 seats for every hour of extended flight.

I give this flight less than a year before it gets shed.

Probably shows how little you know about the market.
WA government will do anything to keep this going, as we know most of the time its more to do with what is in the cargo than how many backsides on seats.

As for seats as reported in the West by AJ himself 60% of the passengers are flying in out of Perth and the remaining 40% are flying onto other cities in Australia.

mast2407 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:38 am

Waterbomber wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
This flight also showcases one of the major challenges of making such routes profitable.
After 12hours it's finally at FL400, even though its only carrying 216pax, less than a fully loaded A321.

On a bad day with strong westerlies and bad weather expected at LHR, you have to block 60 seats for every hour of extended flight.

I give this flight less than a year before it gets shed.

Or they keep it going and replace the 789 with the eventual winner of the 778/A359ULR battle.

Yes however those aircraft are overkill for this thin route. They could carry a 300 pax payload but I doubt that they could fill those seats on PER-LHR.
Different aircraft, same empty seats problem.

QF should have put 8 abreast in Y for this route. Westbound they re going to end up blocking seats anyway, so they might as well give the pax more comfort.

They may have run simulations using forecasted weather, those forecasts are just that. Real life high altitude weather is rarely exactly as forecasted, especially when the forecast is issued at least half a day before being there.
In addition, the result of those simulations is 216 pax on a B789, on a day with no unfavorable high altitude winds over Europe.. It's not impressive nor sustainable.

I think this QF09 is replacing another QF09, which had a capacity of over double the seats (an A380)...

You should ask an airline to hire you... you clearly know more than them, I’d say they’d pay good money for your expertise...

RyanairGuru · Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:49 am

Waterbomber wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
This flight also showcases one of the major challenges of making such routes profitable.
After 12hours it's finally at FL400, even though its only carrying 216pax, less than a fully loaded A321.

On a bad day with strong westerlies and bad weather expected at LHR, you have to block 60 seats for every hour of extended flight.

I give this flight less than a year before it gets shed.

Or they keep it going and replace the 789 with the eventual winner of the 778/A359ULR battle.

Yes however those aircraft are overkill for this thin route. They could carry a 300 pax payload but I doubt that they could fill those seats on PER-LHR.
Different aircraft, same empty seats problem.

QF should have put 8 abreast in Y for this route. Westbound they re going to end up blocking seats anyway, so they might as well give the pax more comfort.

They may have run simulations using forecasted weather, those forecasts are just that. Real life high altitude weather is rarely exactly as forecasted, especially when the forecast is issued at least half a day before being there.
In addition, the result of those simulations is 216 pax on a B789, on a day with no unfavorable high altitude winds over Europe.. It's not impressive nor sustainable.

It’s 20 blocked for the first flight, but the intention to sell all seats. Qantas don’t anticipate this flight requiring blocked seats as a matter of course.

Even if they *were* planning to block seats they would not go 8 abrest as the other routes the aircraft will flow through (MEL-LAX, BNE-LAX etc) are comfortably within the 789’s range and they aren’t going to create a sub-fleet for one route.

qf789 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:56 am

travaz wrote:
Please don't take this wrong. I am not aiming it at anyone in particular. I have to chuckle at some of the post on A-Net. QR didn't wake up on the 1st of March and say "Hey how about PER- LHR? Let's give it a go Mate!" I read an article about how complex and software driven route planning is. It is an exhaustive process. The same applies with selection of new Aircraft. There are Terabytes of data available for most decisions Airlines make. QR probably has more or as much experience with long haul planning than anyone else. I am sure that Boeing went all out to help with the planning of this route. I find it quite fascinating.

You mean QF not QR

travaz · Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:04 am

qf789 wrote:
travaz wrote:
Please don't take this wrong. I am not aiming it at anyone in particular. I have to chuckle at some of the post on A-Net. QR didn't wake up on the 1st of March and say "Hey how about PER- LHR? Let's give it a go Mate!" I read an article about how complex and software driven route planning is. It is an exhaustive process. The same applies with selection of new Aircraft. There are Terabytes of data available for most decisions Airlines make. QR probably has more or as much experience with long haul planning than anyone else. I am sure that Boeing went all out to help with the planning of this route. I find it quite fascinating.

You mean QF not QR

Yes corrected post. Oops!

mast2407 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:05 am

Less than 2 hours out at 40,000 feet. Gonna be some sunrise up there in the summer months!

qf789 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:20 am

Story on the passenger who got Seat 1A

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/travel ... b88781556z

incitatus · Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:25 am

Waterbomber wrote:
(...)

I give this flight less than a year before it gets shed.

I think it will be so popular, QF will consider double-daily.

flylonghaul · Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:27 am

I know there are longer flights. But still find it impressive that when I woke up QF9 was already airborne. I went to work for 12 hours. Now home again at it still has about 90 minutes flight time left.

qf2220 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:37 am

travaz wrote:
Please don't take this wrong. I am not aiming it at anyone in particular. I have to chuckle at some of the post on A-Net. QF didn't wake up on the 1st of March and say "Hey how about PER- LHR? Let's give it a go Mate!" I read an article about how complex and software driven route planning is. It is an exhaustive process. The same applies with selection of new Aircraft. There are Terabytes of data available for most decisions Airlines make. QF probably has more or as much experience with long haul planning than anyone else. I am sure that Boeing went all out to help with the planning of this route. I find it quite fascinating.

OOPS was thinking QR for some reason. Corrected post

I think you'll find its the Anetters who dont frequent the Australian Aviation thread - we have been aware of much of this for quite a while.

kearnet · Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:38 am

To paraphrase Jurassic Park: “Quiet, all of you! They just passed into Germán airspace...... paddock”

VapourTrails · Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:44 am

qf789 wrote:
Story on the passenger who got Seat 1A. https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/travel ... b88781556z

Thank you for that link and also that live LHR webcam one. :thumbsup:

I haven’t seen a lot of press leading up to this flight due to being busy with regular life, but it’s a lazy Sunday afternoon here and I have all the time in the world to watch and read and catch up on this historic inaugural flight right now!

That aircraft model next to Captain Norman at 2:00 in the video I assume is at PER in the terminal? Looks amazing. I definitely plan to do this flight one day. Geographically and economically a great thing for Perth also, having this route. Cheers.

qf2220 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:51 am

incitatus wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
(...)

I give this flight less than a year before it gets shed.

I think it will be so popular, QF will consider double-daily.

Instead of double daily, id think there would be an alternative that they start another ULH route. CDG is being discussed in other posts.

ikramerica · Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:53 am

Waterbomber wrote:
This flight also showcases one of the major challenges of making such routes profitable.
After 12hours it's finally at FL400, even though its only carrying 216pax, less than a fully loaded A321.

On a bad day with strong westerlies and bad weather expected at LHR, you have to block 60 seats for every hour of extended flight.

I give this flight less than a year before it gets shed.

Or you factor in a fuel stop contingency like so many other long routes in the world. Has to be better than leaving 60 pax behind.

qf789 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:55 am

VapourTrails wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Story on the passenger who got Seat 1A. https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/travel ... b88781556z

Thank you for that link and also that live LHR webcam one.

I haven’t seen a lot of press leading up to this flight due to being busy with regular life, but it’s a lazy Sunday afternoon here and I have all the time in the world to watch and read and catch up on this historic inaugural flight right now!

That aircraft model next to Captain Norman at 2:00 in the video I assume is at PER in the terminal? Looks amazing. I definitely plan to do this flight one day. Geographically and economically a great thing for Perth also, having this route. Cheers.

The aircraft model is at QF HQ in Sydney, I noticed it back in October when I was in SYD for the arrival of ZNA, its a decent size model as well

qf789 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:57 am

QF9 is now in its last hour of flight and about to fly over FRA

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/statu ... 4778051585

qf789 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:03 am

And here is the whole route taken

https://twitter.com/tweetperth/status/9 ... 0610621440

ikolkyo · Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:05 am

Man, the 787-9 really loves these long flights at these airlines, can't wait to see what else QF will do with the bird.

EK413 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:16 am

Waterbomber wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
This flight also showcases one of the major challenges of making such routes profitable.
After 12hours it's finally at FL400, even though its only carrying 216pax, less than a fully loaded A321.

On a bad day with strong westerlies and bad weather expected at LHR, you have to block 60 seats for every hour of extended flight.

I give this flight less than a year before it gets shed.

Or they keep it going and replace the 789 with the eventual winner of the 778/A359ULR battle.

Yes however those aircraft are overkill for this thin route. They could carry a 300 pax payload but I doubt that they could fill those seats on PER-LHR.
Different aircraft, same empty seats problem.

QF should have put 8 abreast in Y for this route. Westbound they re going to end up blocking seats anyway, so they might as well give the pax more comfort.

They may have run simulations using forecasted weather, those forecasts are just that. Real life high altitude weather is rarely exactly as forecasted, especially when the forecast is issued at least half a day before being there.
In addition, the result of those simulations is 216 pax on a B789, on a day with no unfavorable high altitude winds over Europe.. It's not impressive nor sustainable.

Would you like me to throw you a biscuit? Go join the “it won’t survive bang wagon”.
You certainly have nothing valuable to add to this discussion.

qf789 wrote:
QF9 is now in its last hour of flight and about to fly over FRA

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/statu ... 4778051585

Thanks for the update.

-ZND is top of her descent.

EK413

travaz · Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:19 am

On my bucket list is PER-LHR LHR-LAX (NZ 1) Than QF LAX SYD SYD PER. That would be awesome. 787-9, 747-400, A380, 737-800.

QF744ER · Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:24 am

FRA was an alternate and there was rumoured to be a fresh crew on standby just in-case a splash and dash was required.

aussie747 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:24 am

I would be curious the amount of fuel left in the tanks once it lands and if the tanks were full on the way out, there was mention the aircraft was 3 tonnes or thereabouts under MTOW.

qf789 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:31 am

QF9 has now started descending into LHR

EK413 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:31 am

qf789 wrote:
VapourTrails wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Story on the passenger who got Seat 1A. https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/travel ... b88781556z

Thank you for that link and also that live LHR webcam one.

I haven’t seen a lot of press leading up to this flight due to being busy with regular life, but it’s a lazy Sunday afternoon here and I have all the time in the world to watch and read and catch up on this historic inaugural flight right now!

That aircraft model next to Captain Norman at 2:00 in the video I assume is at PER in the terminal? Looks amazing. I definitely plan to do this flight one day. Geographically and economically a great thing for Perth also, having this route. Cheers.

The aircraft model is at QF HQ in Sydney, I noticed it back in October when I was in SYD for the arrival of ZNA, its a decent size model as well

Does it look a lot like this?

EK413

qf789 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:34 am

EK413 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
VapourTrails wrote:

Thank you for that link and also that live LHR webcam one.

I haven’t seen a lot of press leading up to this flight due to being busy with regular life, but it’s a lazy Sunday afternoon here and I have all the time in the world to watch and read and catch up on this historic inaugural flight right now!

That aircraft model next to Captain Norman at 2:00 in the video I assume is at PER in the terminal? Looks amazing. I definitely plan to do this flight one day. Geographically and economically a great thing for Perth also, having this route. Cheers.

The aircraft model is at QF HQ in Sydney, I noticed it back in October when I was in SYD for the arrival of ZNA, its a decent size model as well

Does it look a lot like this?

EK413

Yes that's the one, wouldn't mind having one myself

716131 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:39 am

I saw the plane now at flightradar24. QF9 is operated by VH-ZND.
http://flightradar24.com/data/flights/qf9

kearnet · Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:50 am

She's over the M25

georgiabill · Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:55 am

How much fuel would be required for this route?

Congrats to QF on launching this new route.

vhqpa · Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:55 am

Just overflew Lambourne VOR at FL140

qf789 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:59 am

georgiabill wrote:
How much fuel would be required for this route?

Congrats to QF on launching this new route.

It was reported earlier in the thread that the flight took on 92.2 tonnes of fuel

qf789 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:02 am

QF9 is now on final approach

vhqpa · Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:02 am

According to LHR runway alternation program should land on 09R

qf789 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:04 am

Go here for arrival

https://www.facebook.com/airlivenews

https://twitter.com/airlivenet/status/9 ... 9093653505

qf789 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:07 am

QF9 has landed at LHR

georgiabill · Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:08 am

Thank you qf789 for information. Does that figure include fuel for flying to an alternative airport or holding time or is that just the fuel required to fly from Perth to LHR?

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