The Nihon Keizai Shimbun (Nikkei) reports that ANA Holdings plans to merge Peach Aviation and Vanilla Air by 2020 in order to be "better positioned to compete in the growing Asian market". Nikkei expects the Peach brand to survive although nothing has been settled yet.

Furthermore, they plan to "establish medium-distance routes with seven- to nine-hour flights employing long-range smaller aircraft" by 2020 as well (A321LR?). https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Deals/ANA-to-merge-2-budget-carriers-by-2020

Seems like a strange strategy since the places they fly to probably has even lower cost competitions.

Could even be 767s that might be shifted from ANA. 7 to 9 hours seems just right.
https://fp.brecorder.com/2017/10/20171027229979/

Merging Peach and Vanilla sounds like a recipe for a tasty dessert.

Pacific wrote:

Could even be 767s that might be shifted from ANA. 7 to 9 hours seems just right.
https://fp.brecorder.com/2017/10/20171027229979/

As a temporary solution, possible. Long term is definitely pointing towards A321LR.

As for the merger, it just makes sense anyway after NH took Peach as a subsidary (before that it was more like an affiliate with NH's investment). Vanilla just didn't really grow anyway, especially compare to Jetstar Japan, or MM's fair size international network (and also will be the last remaining Japanese airlines in ICN). They are definitely hamstrung by not able to reach many places in SE Asia anyway (Thailand, for example, with the increasing amount of Thai visiting Japan and v.v.)

A logical and in my opinion, overdue decision. If Peach is the surviving brand, it'll be interesting to see if the combined airline will still be HQ'd in KIX or if it relocates to NRT.

Yflyer wrote:

Merging Peach and Vanilla sounds like a recipe for a tasty dessert.

For sure!

Actually, merging the two is probably the most sound business decision. I'm amazed it took ANA this long to make a decision.

bzcat wrote:

Actually, merging the two is probably the most sound business decision. I'm amazed it took ANA this long to make a decision.

ANA Holdings only last April gained a majority stake in Peach. Up until then ANA only held a 37% stake and certainly was not in the drivers seat corporate wise.

Happy to hear Peach will survive. While I know nothing about Vanilla Air, Peach I am familiar with and I like the product, vibrancy, crews etc

Can they please change the name of the newly merged carrier to Peaches and Cream?

zakuivcustom wrote:

As a temporary solution, possible. Long term is definitely pointing towards A321LR.

The A320/321NEO is definitely the way to go. I do question if the LR is of any use to a LCC. The 3rd ACT kills pax luggage hold volume and there isn't enough volume for 240 pax. 9 hours might also be pushing it for a high density configuration.

NWADTWE16 wrote:

Happy to hear Peach will survive. While I know nothing about Vanilla Air, Peach I am familiar with and I like the product, vibrancy, crews etc

I've only flown Vanilla once. The ground staff and crew were super efficient but it felt a little cold and robotic. The check-in staff are very strict about the luggage allowance and I saw multiple people falling foul and forking out extra. The seats felt a little narrower than the usual A320 seat as well.

We followed the luggage rules properly so it was very smooth sailing, got us from NRT to HKG efficiently and on time, something UO isn't exactly stellar at!

Pacific wrote:

Could even be 767s that might be shifted from ANA. 7 to 9 hours seems just right.
https://fp.brecorder.com/2017/10/20171027229979/

In previous investor section they said they will use an aircraft that have commonality with their existing fleet on long distance routes. They currently operate A320s. It was also specified to be narrow body aircraft

zakuivcustom wrote:

As a temporary solution, possible. Long term is definitely pointing towards A321LR.

As for the merger, it just makes sense anyway after NH took Peach as a subsidary (before that it was more like an affiliate with NH's investment). Vanilla just didn't really grow anyway, especially compare to Jetstar Japan, or MM's fair size international network (and also will be the last remaining Japanese airlines in ICN). They are definitely hamstrung by not able to reach many places in SE Asia anyway (Thailand, for example, with the increasing amount of Thai visiting Japan and v.v.)

From reports it seems like narrow body fleet would be the beginning of the medium haul expansion with prospect of adding further mid-sized aircraft in the future

Pacific wrote:

zakuivcustom wrote:

As a temporary solution, possible. Long term is definitely pointing towards A321LR.

The A320/321NEO is definitely the way to go. I do question if the LR is of any use to a LCC. The 3rd ACT kills pax luggage hold volume and there isn't enough volume for 240 pax. 9 hours might also be pushing it for a high density configuration.

Well, MM (Peach) already has 10 A320neo on order, so it's not really a question of whether they'll get them or not.

As for network, there was this in ANA's 2016-2020 Mid-Term Planning Document:
http://www.anahd.co.jp/pr/201601/pdf/20160129-2.pdf

No mention of MM's network, but clearly they're aiming for SE Asia for growth (along with China, of course). On the map there's PEK, PVG, HGH, WUH, CGO, and CAN for China, then HAN, SGN, REP, BKK, SIN, and DPS for SE Asia, along with ROR, GUM, and SPN in the Pacific. Longer term, of course, I would say it's HNL to the east and India to the west, but those would definitely required a 767-like aircraft (Umm...the mythical 797?)

Years ago when I was a waiter at the local Friendly’s Restaurant, we used to merge peach and vanilla all the time into sundaes and cream floats!

zakuivcustom wrote:

Pacific wrote:

zakuivcustom wrote:

As a temporary solution, possible. Long term is definitely pointing towards A321LR.

The A320/321NEO is definitely the way to go. I do question if the LR is of any use to a LCC. The 3rd ACT kills pax luggage hold volume and there isn't enough volume for 240 pax. 9 hours might also be pushing it for a high density configuration.

Well, MM (Peach) already has 10 A320neo on order, so it's not really a question of whether they'll get them or not.

As for network, there was this in ANA's 2016-2020 Mid-Term Planning Document:
http://www.anahd.co.jp/pr/201601/pdf/20160129-2.pdf

No mention of MM's network, but clearly they're aiming for SE Asia for growth (along with China, of course). On the map there's PEK, PVG, HGH, WUH, CGO, and CAN for China, then HAN, SGN, REP, BKK, SIN, and DPS for SE Asia, along with ROR, GUM, and SPN in the Pacific. Longer term, of course, I would say it's HNL to the east and India to the west, but those would definitely required a 767-like aircraft (Umm...the mythical 797?)

The star near Singapore actually look more like JHB than SIN.
There are also CEB and KHH and Ulaan Baatar in Mongolia, and then it even seems to have fifth freedom flights that would depart from TPE.
And then there is a line extend toward Southeastern side of the graph without any star there. I wonder if they're also imaging to fly to Northern Australia but it chopped off the star.

So Vanilla Air = Merged into Peach. Then some A320's currently flown by Peach gets a sharklets (or all probably). And will be the largest LCC in Japan with more than 50 planes.

c933103 wrote:

zakuivcustom wrote:

Pacific wrote:

The A320/321NEO is definitely the way to go. I do question if the LR is of any use to a LCC. The 3rd ACT kills pax luggage hold volume and there isn't enough volume for 240 pax. 9 hours might also be pushing it for a high density configuration.

Well, MM (Peach) already has 10 A320neo on order, so it's not really a question of whether they'll get them or not.

As for network, there was this in ANA's 2016-2020 Mid-Term Planning Document:
http://www.anahd.co.jp/pr/201601/pdf/20160129-2.pdf

No mention of MM's network, but clearly they're aiming for SE Asia for growth (along with China, of course). On the map there's PEK, PVG, HGH, WUH, CGO, and CAN for China, then HAN, SGN, REP, BKK, SIN, and DPS for SE Asia, along with ROR, GUM, and SPN in the Pacific. Longer term, of course, I would say it's HNL to the east and India to the west, but those would definitely required a 767-like aircraft (Umm...the mythical 797?)

The star near Singapore actually look more like JHB than SIN.
There are also CEB and KHH and Ulaan Baatar in Mongolia, and then it even seems to have fifth freedom flights that would depart from TPE.
And then there is a line extend toward Southeastern side of the graph without any star there. I wonder if they're also imaging to fly to Northern Australia but it chopped off the star.

I did forgot about ULN. Vanilla already flys to KHh and CEB, though, which is why I left them out (the document I linked to was 2 years old). They flew to SGN via TPE also, although that is ending.

SE Asia beach market should be the next logical steps for Peach and Vanilla anyway. It is just crazy that there are zero non-stop from Japan to the like of HKT (meanwhile neighboring South Korea has both KE and OZ flying there) anyway.

ShinyAndChrome wrote:

A logical and in my opinion, overdue decision. If Peach is the surviving brand, it'll be interesting to see if the combined airline will still be HQ'd in KIX or if it relocates to NRT.

If Vanilla relocates to KIX, they'll have to build an even bigger shed on the 2nd island than currently exists to hold both of them. My, how times change! The original masterplan for KIX envisioned a full-fledged 2nd terminal (mirroring T1) on the 2nd island. Now, they're haphazardly building LCC sheds instead!

I should say, as a long-term resident of the Osaka metropolitan area, I find the LCC-fication of KIX via MM's presence rather disturbing. Meanwhile, it seems lot of FSCs have either left or downsized.

globetrotter94 wrote:

ShinyAndChrome wrote:

A logical and in my opinion, overdue decision. If Peach is the surviving brand, it'll be interesting to see if the combined airline will still be HQ'd in KIX or if it relocates to NRT.

If Vanilla relocates to KIX, they'll have to build an even bigger shed on the 2nd island than currently exists to hold both of them. My, how times change! The original masterplan for KIX envisioned a full-fledged 2nd terminal (mirroring T1) on the 2nd island. Now, they're haphazardly building LCC sheds instead!

It's mainly referring to the HQ. I doubt JW would moved their hub from NRT to KIX, not when NRT is expanding and Tokyo is still a huge market where at least you want a little bit of the pie.

globetrotter94 wrote:

I should say, as a long-term resident of the Osaka metropolitan area, I find the LCC-fication of KIX via MM's presence rather disturbing. Meanwhile, it seems lot of FSCs have either left or downsized.

Who have left in the past few years? I couldn't think of any. Not much expansion for JL/NH, yes, but tons of Chinese carriers (None of the LCC) and no reduction from European FSCs at all.

LCC is definitely expanding at a higher rate, but that applied pretty much everywhere anyway.

On a side note, Vanilla is ending KIX-NRT:
https://www.vanilla-air.com/jp/news/3291

Which left TPE-KIX and TPE-OKA as the two routes left that are operated by both JW and MM (Ok, there's MM on TPE-HND with JW on TPE-NRT also, funny how all the overlapped routes involved TPE ). KIX-NRT is definitely facing a HUGE reduction in capacity, though. At peak it was 4 on GK, 3 on MM, 2 on JW, and 1 on IJ. IJ with all their issues ended that flight awhile back, now JW is ending the route also. MM is reducing the frequency from 3 to 2 + 1 seasonal, and GK is also reducing the frequency from 4 to 3 + 1 seasonal non-daily.

P.S. KIX (and Keihanshin area in general) vs Tokyo reminds me of SP vs Rio in Brazil anyway when it comes to flight.

Sounds like a tasty yoghurt

zakuivcustom wrote:

Who have left in the past few years? I couldn't think of any. Not much expansion for JL/NH, yes, but tons of Chinese carriers (None of the LCC) and no reduction from European FSCs at all.

Definitely couple of reductions in long-haul service. AZ used to come from FCO; not anymore. AF was daily if I remember correctly; not anymore. TK outright pulled out, as did QR. MS has been away since the trouble in Egypt (back to HND now, but not KIX). On North America, DL to SEA has been cut. UA down-gauged first from 744 too 772, and now to mostly 788 (with some 789). So on long-haul, KIX is indeed suffering big time .

globetrotter94 wrote:

zakuivcustom wrote:

Who have left in the past few years? I couldn't think of any. Not much expansion for JL/NH, yes, but tons of Chinese carriers (None of the LCC) and no reduction from European FSCs at all.

Definitely couple of reductions in long-haul service. AZ used to come from FCO; not anymore. AF was daily if I remember correctly; not anymore. TK outright pulled out, as did QR. MS has been away since the trouble in Egypt (back to HND now, but not KIX). On North America, DL to SEA has been cut. UA down-gauged first from 744 too 772, and now to mostly 788 (with some 789). So on long-haul, KIX is indeed suffering big time .

AF will be back to daily after 3/26, so there's that (It's not just AF reducing frequency to KIX over the winter anyway, LH, KL, and AY all did).

You're correct about the rest, though. Osaka (more like Keihanshin) economy is totally stagnant, though, with its population more or less flat (Compare to Tokyo, which just keep growing, or even Nagoya, which has the automobile industry and is somewhat growing). It's definitely sad to see the proud city keep going down myself anyway (I love Osaka way more than Tokyo myself ).

At least with MM, the amount of traffic at KIX is increasing, and is now solidly 3rd busiest airport in Japan. That's way better than being in 7th place back around 2010 (pre-MM days) (Behind HND, NRT, FUK, CTS, ITM, and OKA).

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CairnterriAIR wrote:

Years ago when I was a waiter at the local Friendly’s Restaurant, we used to merge peach and vanilla all the time into sundaes and cream floats!

Having spent 20 years of my life in the NorthEast, I remember remember Friendly's IceCream. Wish we could get that kind of quality here in Mexico..

TUSDawg23 wrote:

Can they please change the name of the newly merged carrier to Peaches and Cream?

Best contribution to this thread! I second your request...

But interesting.. suddenly out of nowhere you will have a 50 fleet ULCC in Japan. Wow

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There was a press conference about this today and now it's official: Peach Aviation and Vanilla Air will merge by 2020, with Peach Aviation being the surviving brand. Peach's main hubs will be NRT and KIX, and the airline plans to operate more than 50 aircrafts on more than 50 routes. Mid-haul flights will begin in 2020 as well.
https://www.ana.co.jp/group/en/pr/201803/20180322.html

Any bets on a new name? Trifle.....??

I guess that should clear things up a little bit.

As for those mid-haul routes (to SE Asia mostly), I guess they're going to just operate A320neo there? No news for A321neo/LR yet, nor it seems like they'll go widebodies from the looks of it.

P.S. Makes sense that Peach name survived anyway. It's ran much better than Vanilla (Peach had been making a profit since 2014, Vanilla is still losing money) with a better brand recognition anyway.

I wouldn't call 9h of flying mid-haul..it's rather long-haul and i doubt a A321Neo LR can pull this off without reduction in pax capacity..unless they decide to use/lease A333s in crushing/high density config of 440pax like Cebu air, Lion Air etc..

Yflyer wrote:

Merging Peach and Vanilla sounds like a recipe for a tasty dessert.

Peach Melba: Poached peach, vanilla ice cream and raspberry sauce.

Is it any wonder I am a fat ####? I see food everywhere. Mmmm, seafood.