VS announced they will start 2nd daily JNB service during the next Northern hemisphere winter season.
To my thinking, re-instating a seasonal CPT service would have been better, to give BA a run for their money and their high fares to CPT.
Plus, had VS committed to the A380 instead of cancelling them, here's clearly one route that would have been ideal for it.
Extra flight will go on sale later this month.
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- RainerBoeing777
- Posts: 594
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Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
I think it's excellent, it's a route with too much demand, I do not know how SAA can reduce this route
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
I think its the right move although not that confident that VS can really batter BA with a fare competition. VS would get murdered at CPT. Two A380's vs Two 787's? Who will VS partner thru to DUR and CPT?
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
RainerBoeing777 wrote:I think it's excellent, it's a route with too much demand, I do not know how SAA can reduce this route
Well SAA don't have access to TAJV traffic via LHR, VS and BA do.
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
Where is this LHR slot coming from? VS only uses 23 daily slots at LHR so I'm guessing something is getting cut.
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
TC957 wrote:Plus, had VS committed to the A380 instead of cancelling them, here's clearly one route that would have been ideal for it.
It makes no sense for VS to have A380s. They should have never been ordered in the first place.
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
MARSHAL1 wrote:Where is this LHR slot coming from? VS only uses 23 daily slots at LHR so I'm guessing something is getting cut.
Not necessarily, I think DL and/or AF/KLM has slots that are being leased to other carriers. Regardless, VS could get one from DL or AF/KLM...I'm sure they can make that work.
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
The LHR slots was something I thought of too, but the Chinese airlines don't seem to have trouble getting evening slots for all their new flights coming or have started this year.
We'll know the timings of the new JNB flight soon when it goes on sale.
We'll know the timings of the new JNB flight soon when it goes on sale.
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
I've just seen the timings of the new flight :
LHR - JNB 1645 / 0540+1
JNB - LHR 2220 / 0730+1
LHR - JNB 1645 / 0540+1
JNB - LHR 2220 / 0730+1
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
TC957 wrote:LHR - JNB 1645 / 0540+1
JNB - LHR 2220 / 0730+1
Very early departure from LHR. Must be looking to pick up traffic from North America.
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
Nail in coffin for SAA's success on this route?
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
I think there is sufficient enough O/D demand to suffice both carriers twice daily on this route. And i also think North America contributes in terms of transferring traffic at LHR.
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
berari wrote:Nail in coffin for SAA's success on this route?
SAA have only themselves to blame if that proves to be the case, since they dropped the direct CPT flight and now the 2nd JNB.
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
EddieDude wrote:TC957 wrote:Plus, had VS committed to the A380 instead of cancelling them, here's clearly one route that would have been ideal for it.
It makes no sense for VS to have A380s. They should have never been ordered in the first place.
Agreed. They would have very little to feed to fill them and no obvious point to point ones to fill A380's.
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
jbs2886 wrote:MARSHAL1 wrote:Where is this LHR slot coming from? VS only uses 23 daily slots at LHR so I'm guessing something is getting cut.
Not necessarily, I think DL and/or AF/KLM has slots that are being leased to other carriers. Regardless, VS could get one from DL or AF/KLM...I'm sure they can make that work.
That... or any one of those carriers, including VS, might be reducing trans-Atlantic flying during the slow winter season.
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- flydude380
- Posts: 259
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Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
TC957 wrote:berari wrote:Nail in coffin for SAA's success on this route?
SAA have only themselves to blame if that proves to be the case, since they dropped the direct CPT flight and now the 2nd JNB.
Could we ever see SAA completely cease LHR, I wonder?
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
evanb wrote:TC957 wrote:LHR - JNB 1645 / 0540+1
JNB - LHR 2220 / 0730+1
Very early departure from LHR. Must be looking to pick up traffic from North America.
I'm not so sure. That's a pretty long LHR layover for Virgin/Delta arrivals (not that arriving to JNB even earlier would be a boon). Further, I don't think Delta wants to mess with the success of its own ATL-JNB flight.
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
MIflyer12 wrote:I'm not so sure. That's a pretty long LHR layover for Virgin/Delta arrivals (not that arriving to JNB even earlier would be a boon). Further, I don't think Delta wants to mess with the success of its own ATL-JNB flight.
It's a 2 hour layover for VS flight from LAX, 2.5 hour from SFO, some others a few more. DL are already pushing a lot of traffic to South Africa through Europe, this adds nicely to the options.
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
shankly wrote:I think its the right move although not that confident that VS can really batter BA with a fare competition. VS would get murdered at CPT. Two A380's vs Two 787's? Who will VS partner thru to DUR and CPT?
Not sure that you realise this as I have read your post and it comes across as if you think that this is a new route for VS.
VS are adding an additional flight from LHR to JHB making it twice daily from winter 2018.
VS previously served LHR to CPT for many years but it ceased operating two years ago as part of the airlines route network cutbacks shortly after the tie up with DL/AF/KL.
VS already partner with SAA in South Africa including CPT and DUR.
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
What does the current schedule look like between London and Joburg?
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
Cunard wrote:VS already partner with SAA in South Africa including CPT and DUR.
Partnership is probably pushing it. No codeshare. Just interline and FF reciprocity.
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
usxguy wrote:What does the current schedule look like between London and Joburg?
Existing flight:
LHR JNB 18:55 07:50+1
JNB LHR 21:10 06:20+1
New flight:
LHR JNB 16:45 05:40+1
JNB LHR 22:20 07:30+1
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
RainerBoeing777 wrote:I think it's excellent, it's a route with too much demand, I do not know how SAA can reduce this route
I am surprised DL went along with this. As puppet-master, DL has been making VS deploy almost all available aircraft for TATL service.
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
Cunard wrote:shankly wrote:I think its the right move although not that confident that VS can really batter BA with a fare competition. VS would get murdered at CPT. Two A380's vs Two 787's? Who will VS partner thru to DUR and CPT?
Not sure that you realise this as I have read your post and it comes across as if you think that this is a new route for VS.
VS are adding an additional flight from LHR to JHB making it twice daily from winter 2018.
VS previously served LHR to CPT for many years but it ceased operating two years ago as part of the airlines route network cutbacks shortly after the tie up with DL/AF/KL.
VS already partner with SAA in South Africa including CPT and DUR.
Er, I live here chap, so maybe a simple misunderstanding on your part. I've flown LH, EK, QR, BA, SA down here over the years both to JNB and CPT so know my stuff.
Whilst I applaud VS doubling up at JNB, they are almost certainly on a hiding to nothing on what must be a marginal outpost for them. I can see BA making life tricky by using Comair to capture onward fares to CPT and DUR. VS plain and simple will never come back to CPT. With SAA's domestic cutbacks, with almost certainly more to come, maybe you don't quite understand how fragile it could be for VS.
Have a lekker day!
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
I wonder how long before Norwegian starts flying to South Africa?
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
L0VE2FLY wrote:I wonder how long before Norwegian starts flying to South Africa?
I seem to recall that S Africa was indeed on Norwegian's wish-list when they started long-haul at LGW. Probably only a matter of time.
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
L0VE2FLY wrote:I wonder how long before Norwegian starts flying to South Africa?
I've been keeping my fingers crossed for ages. However, speaking to my pals in the tourist industry down here in the Cape, the season has been a bit flat, probably caused by the water crisis cock up, so maybe Norweigan are keeping their powder dry for another season? As a local this has been evidenced in pretty much being able to walk into any restaurant without a booking over Dec/Jan
In saying that the early morning high season ramp at CPT is looking quite busy next year and with the A380 airports mods now given the go-ahead, all we need next is a direct to the US East Coast for some impressive global connectivity from the tip of Africa. Apols for slight digression from JNB and VS
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- aemoreira1981
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Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
flydude380 wrote:TC957 wrote:berari wrote:Nail in coffin for SAA's success on this route?
SAA have only themselves to blame if that proves to be the case, since they dropped the direct CPT flight and now the 2nd JNB.
Could we ever see SAA completely cease LHR, I wonder?
I will say yes actually...given that they lost any feed there when BMI was swallowed up by BA.
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
aemoreira1981 wrote:flydude380 wrote:TC957 wrote:SAA have only themselves to blame if that proves to be the case, since they dropped the direct CPT flight and now the 2nd JNB.
Could we ever see SAA completely cease LHR, I wonder?
I will say yes actually...given that they lost any feed there when BMI was swallowed up by BA.
Feed or no, that’s where most of the demand from South Africa-Europe is, correct? So if SAA were to drop it, they’d offer a one-stop product vía Frankfurt. Not exactly competitive to BA and VS
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
So what route is being dropped to start this service? From the timings it looks like a JFK rotation? Whilst evening slots are easy to get at LHR the early morning arrival is not so I'm guessing something is being dropped.
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
brian415 wrote:RainerBoeing777 wrote:I think it's excellent, it's a route with too much demand, I do not know how SAA can reduce this route
I am surprised DL went along with this. As puppet-master, DL has been making VS deploy almost all available aircraft for TATL service.
DL is basically VS's parent company. Don't be so dramatic with "puppet-master". DL also isn't going to over-deploy on TATL if they can make money elsewhere...
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
I don't think this will last more than one season, two at most. Once VS have enough of the larger A350 at LHR they will offer a much better way to increase capacity on routes like JNB without the need for another frequency. The third daily LAX during northern summer is another one that probably won't repeat once the fleet gets a larger, efficient plane at LHR.
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- mattpawlow
- Posts: 9
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Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
anstar wrote:So what route is being dropped to start this service? From the timings it looks like a JFK rotation? Whilst evening slots are easy to get at LHR the early morning arrival is not so I'm guessing something is being dropped.
It is possible this is being done with the DL PHL-LHR-PHL slot pair opening up once that route ends shortly. Looks like the VS SEA flight will be departing earlier on both ends, which would align it with the DL PHL slot times.
DL:
Dep LHR @11:30
Dep PHL @ 20:15 (DST), arrives LHR @ 07:30
Come this summer's schedule, VS will operate SEA as:
Dep LHR @ 09:30
Dep SEA @ 14:00, arrives LHR @ 07:30.
Perhaps doing this makes available the current SEA slot (dep LHR ~13:00, arrives LHR ~10:00) for this JNB frequency addition. Could be wrong though, just a muse...
Re: VS to go double daily LHR-JNB W18/19.
I would have thought operating the 2nd flight as a day flight would be an option.
Something like 0930 / 1840.
That would save the 789 sitting such a long time at JNB, give passengers an option of departure times, allow the incoming 789 to operate the last JFK service from LHR, still have time for the first wave of domestic flights into JNB for connections, and save a peak morning arrival slot at LHR.
Something like 0930 / 1840.
That would save the 789 sitting such a long time at JNB, give passengers an option of departure times, allow the incoming 789 to operate the last JFK service from LHR, still have time for the first wave of domestic flights into JNB for connections, and save a peak morning arrival slot at LHR.
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