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India Grounds affected Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines After Indigo Incident

Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:42 pm

From Pratt's 'home town' newspaper ( http://www.courant.com/business/hc-biz- ... story.html ):

India on Monday grounded all Airbus narrow-body planes powered by Pratt & Whitney engines after a local regulator, citing in-flight incidents, questioned the aircraft’s safety, Bloomberg News reported.

A320neo jetliners with Pratt engines that have a seal found to cause vibrations will no longer be able to fly, India regulators said.

The move immediately grounded eight aircraft at Indigo, India’s largest carrier, and three at GoAirlines India Pvt, following three in-service shutdowns of aircraft with one PW1100 engine featuring the seal, Indian regulators said.

It also says:

(India's regulator) said the manufacturer had “no concrete proposal in place at this stage.”

Ouch!

Seems DGCA has run out of patience.
Last edited by qf789 on Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: changed title for clarity
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:48 pm

More info from http://indianexpress.com/article/busine ... s-5095452/ :

THE DIRECTORATE General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) has ordered the grounding of 11 Airbus A320neo aircraft operated by budget carriers IndiGo and GoAir that are equipped with Pratt & Whitney PW1100G engines with certain serial numbers.

The aviation regulator’s directive came hours after an IndiGo aircraft with the affected engine, on the Ahmedabad-Lucknow route, developed a mid-air snag shortly after take-off, forcing it to return to Ahmedabad.

DGCA said it has not got a “firm commitment” from the US engine manufacturer on addressing fresh safety concerns, which forced it to ground the fleet. The problem with the PW1100G engines was first red-flagged by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) last month, following which certain restrictions were imposed on flying such aircraft.

Not sure if it was just RTB or also IFSD too.

“In view of the above, and keeping in mind the safety of aircraft operations, A320neos fitted with PW1100 engines beyond engine serial number 450 have been grounded with immediate effect. Both IndiGo and GoAir have been told not to refit these engines, which are spare with them in their inventory,” DGCA said.

The problem pertains to a ‘knife-edge seal’ on the engine’s high-pressure compressor that was introduced as a modification late last year.

Not good. Seems PW's recovery strategy has just melted down.
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:44 pm

Revelation wrote:
Not good. Seems PW's recovery strategy has just melted down.

Not really. We have an EASA air worthiness directive that has also been implemented by the FAA. Both of which impose operating restrictions on Aircraft with these engines. The DCGA has gone further for some reason. I suppose it's possible that they have some additional information, and that other civil aviation authorities will follow suit, but it's worth remembering that the DCGA have gone further in restrictions in the past - particularly last year. Not so much "nothing to see here" - United Technologies clearly screwed up - as "nothing new to see here".
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:50 pm

BaconButty wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Not good. Seems PW's recovery strategy has just melted down.

Not really. We have an EASA air worthiness directive that has also been implemented by the FAA. Both of which impose operating restrictions on Aircraft with these engines. The DCGA has gone further for some reason. I suppose it's possible that they have some additional information, and that other civil aviation authorities will follow suit, but it's worth remembering that the DCGA have gone further in restrictions in the past - particularly last year. Not so much "nothing to see here" - United Technologies clearly screwed up - as "nothing new to see here".


Indigo had another in flight shut down on the 12th. DCGA has obviously had enough and grounded the affected aircraft, which is fair enough. They maybe a wonderfully fuel efficient engine, but at some point safety has to take precedence.
 
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:51 pm

So are these the "new" engines with the modified seal that India is now recalling, or are these older engines that P&W originally placed an advisory on?

This whole situation with the GTF seems like a cluttered mess. :oops:
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:03 am

http://english.manoramaonline.com/news/ ... dabad.html

And another kind in flight failure of the p&w engine at indigo.
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IndiGo airlines A320NEO P&W in-flight engine failure 3/12

Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:05 am

Looks like another failure.

http://english.manoramaonline.com/news/ ... dabad.html

Did not see it discussed here.
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Re: IndiGo airlines A320NEO P&W in-flight engine failure 3/12

Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:11 am

Just gets worse and worse for Pratt. Was this one of the replaced engines?
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:12 am

Teething problems, most new engines have them.
 
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:22 am

william wrote:
Teething problems, most new engines have them.


Which is fine to say if solutions are proposed and implemented successfully, but all P&W's fixes don't seem to stick.
 
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:34 am

This appears to be the same knife edge seal problem and not something new. From my understanding, the DGCA has stopped the pairing of the problem and non problem engines due to the problem engines having shut downs recently. This means that the problem engines do not fly.
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:34 am

These are not teething problems. These are fixes of fixes of fixes. The P&W engine saga has been going on for how long? Each iteration of the story says the problem is now solved.

Frankly, at this point I do not believe a damn thing Pratt says.
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:53 am

jupiter2 wrote:
Indigo had another in flight shut down on the 12th. DCGA has obviously had enough and grounded the affected aircraft, which is fair enough. They maybe a wonderfully fuel efficient engine, but at some point safety has to take precedence.

Isn't the corollary of this that the EASA and FAA don't give safety precedence? Question rather than making a point.
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Re: IndiGo airlines A320NEO P&W in-flight engine failure 3/12

Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:09 am

No clue and I hate to speculate. According to indian regulators, it is an egine with a serial number greater than 450, as it grounded all NEOs with those Pratt engines. Anyone?
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Re: IndiGo airlines A320NEO P&W in-flight engine failure 3/12

Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:23 am

fpetrutiu wrote:
Looks like another failure.

http://english.manoramaonline.com/news/ ... dabad.html

Did not see it discussed here.

This is the same incident that has caused India to ground the A320neo fleet.

Eight aircraft at Indigo and three at GoAirlines.

Being discussed in viewtopic.php?p=20242725#p20242725 ...
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:36 am

Runway28L wrote:
So are these the "new" engines with the modified seal that India is now recalling, or are these older engines that P&W originally placed an advisory on?

The failure is in the ones with modified seals. India was allowing flight with one engine with old seals and one with new. Now they no longer allow this.

Runway28L wrote:
This whole situation with the GTF seems like a cluttered mess. :oops:

Yes and the fix will be to use "old" seals till they sort out "new" seals so we might see the sequence old => new => old => new.

fpetrutiu wrote:
http://english.manoramaonline.com/news/nation/2018/03/12/engine-failure-forces-indigo-flight-to-return-to-ahmedabad.html

And another kind in flight failure of the p&w engine at indigo.

This is the same incident described in reply #2.

AvHerald ( https://avherald.com/h?article=4b5fedf4 ) confirms it was an IFSD.

BaconButty wrote:
jupiter2 wrote:
Indigo had another in flight shut down on the 12th. DCGA has obviously had enough and grounded the affected aircraft, which is fair enough. They maybe a wonderfully fuel efficient engine, but at some point safety has to take precedence.

Isn't the corollary of this that the EASA and FAA don't give safety precedence? Question rather than making a point.

It would not surpise me if EASA/FAA look at this new data point and also decide they've had enough.
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:47 am

BaconButty wrote:
jupiter2 wrote:
Indigo had another in flight shut down on the 12th. DCGA has obviously had enough and grounded the affected aircraft, which is fair enough. They maybe a wonderfully fuel efficient engine, but at some point safety has to take precedence.

Isn't the corollary of this that the EASA and FAA don't give safety precedence? Question rather than making a point.


I think this is more of a regulatory authority saying enough is enough. The DGCA maybe being overly cautious compared to the FAA and EASA, but that shouldn't be seen as a bad thing, the Indian airlines have had a lot of problems with these engines.

Do we really want to tempt fate with these engines and have the "good" engine either need to be shut down, or ingest a bird on departure and have to rely on the engine with a known fault as the sole power source ? I know it's unlikely, but why leave a step in the process of a possible accident when it's not necessary ?
 
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:47 am

william wrote:
Teething problems, most new engines have them.

Sorry, but teething problems are supposed to be minor and can be permanently fixed in a short space of time. These repeated IFS incidents are really serious... I think it would be wise for Airbus to tell PW that no more deliveries will be made unless all the issues are fixed. It is so obvious that there are some fundamental issues that need to be attended to!
 
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:48 am

IIRC, there are even newer seals that use older technology. I don't think they just went back to the previous version.
 
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:55 am

Let's not forget that there was another shutdown today on Indigo - cited both on here and on another website.
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:02 am

It could also be that the harsh Indian weather and environment might exacerbate the problem. Even earlier when DGCA had limited the altitude at which engines equipped with P&W engines could fly due to the bearing issue, P&W had mentioned that the harsh Indian environment leads to excessive stress on the engines. With summer already starting in India and temperatures going north, maybe the new seals are causing more issue in India??
 
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:07 am

blrsea wrote:
It could also be that the harsh Indian weather and environment might exacerbate the problem. Even earlier when DGCA had limited the altitude at which engines equipped with P&W engines could fly due to the bearing issue, P&W had mentioned that the harsh Indian environment leads to excessive stress on the engines. With summer already starting in India and temperatures going north, maybe the new seals are causing more issue in India??


Indian weather is no more extreme than the south west U.S.A or what could be found in other areas of the world. PW simply have to get the engine up to scratch, or they are going to loose a lot of business in a hurry, the time for excuses is over.
 
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:13 am

spartanmjf wrote:
Let's not forget that there was another shutdown today on Indigo - cited both on here and on another website.

That is the same incident reported in #2.

It triggered this decision to ground the planes.

jupiter2 wrote:
PW simply have to get the engine up to scratch, or they are going to loose a lot of business in a hurry, the time for excuses is over.

It's pretty clear that India's DGCA has lost their patience.

Their statement was that Pratt had “no concrete proposal in place at this stage" to solve the problem.
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:37 am

flee wrote:
william wrote:
Teething problems, most new engines have them.

Sorry, but teething problems are supposed to be minor and can be permanently fixed in a short space of time. These repeated IFS incidents are really serious... I think it would be wise for Airbus to tell PW that no more deliveries will be made unless all the issues are fixed. It is so obvious that there are some fundamental issues that need to be attended to!


The PW GTF was first flight tested in 2008, the engine for the C-Series first flew in 2010, the PW1100 for the A320neo first flew in 2013 and entered service in January 2016 (should not have happened, Airbus has some blame -- the engine clearly was not ready). Nothing but trouble since then. So it has been a decade of testing and in service...We should be well past teething problems. PW may have fundamental flaws it is dealing with....

...They say the gearbox of the GTF is not the problem...But I wonder if the higher shaft speed, balance, torsion stresses of a GTF is manifesting itself in other ways...on the rotor, bearings, etc...and that a gearbox is indirectly the problem.
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:44 am

Revelation wrote:
Not good. Seems PW's recovery strategy has just melted down.

Dunno if "just" is the right word there...

There's a REASON that PW hasn't been selected to independently power any new widebody derivative by Boeing or Airbus for the last 21yrs, and it doesn't seem like that's going to be changing anyyyyyyy time soon.
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:05 am

As a result of this directive IndiGo has cancelled 50 departures today - That is nearly 5% of its daily departures.
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:11 am

So when does Airbus certify the PW1500G on the A320 and call it the "A320 Regional?" :stirthepot:
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:22 am

GoAir and IndiGo still have over 15 in the air right now with a departure of 5 minutes ago...so when is this effective?
 
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:24 am

Not all NEOs have been grounded. Only the ones above a certain MSN
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines After Indigo Incident

Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:14 am

Thank god Air India NEOs are not PW powered, or else the thread would have been diverted to a different direction
 
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:52 am

jupiter2 wrote:
Indian weather is no more extreme than the south west U.S.A or what could be found in other areas of the world.


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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines After Indigo Incident

Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:07 am

These incidents with the PW1100G engine really makes you wonder how the heck it ever got certified.
 
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines After Indigo Incident

Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:08 am

These incidents with the PW1100G engine really makes you wonder how the heck it ever got certified.
 
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines After Indigo Incident

Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:47 am

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
These incidents with the PW1100G engine really makes you wonder how the heck it ever got certified.


As said in the other threads, PW is on the "Bleeding Edge". Trying to manufacture engines with utmost efficiency and less weight have caused all this.
 
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:07 am

zeke wrote:
jupiter2 wrote:
Indian weather is no more extreme than the south west U.S.A or what could be found in other areas of the world.


The pollution is some of the worlds worst.


Well, that might just get a little better now, with more flights grounded.
 
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines After Indigo Incident

Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:28 am

I still say as this affect the 1100G & not the other variants that it has to do with the engine mounts on the 1100G both being on the core. The CS100/300 engine mounts are 1 on core & 1 on the fan. This is what lead to the bowing of the shaft when hot. It could be due to tork & twisting motion. Otherwise why has this not shown up in CS series airframes? Maybe Airbus should try and mount to the fan case with the fwd mount.
 
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:42 am

ElroyJetson wrote:
These are not teething problems. These are fixes of fixes of fixes. The P&W engine saga has been going on for how long? Each iteration of the story says the problem is now solved.

Frankly, at this point I do not believe a damn thing Pratt says.


I honestly think that Pratt & Whitney fumbled badly with the GTF engine for the A320neo. Those problems which are happening on the A320neo engines should have been rectified before being certified, in my opinion.
P&W must get serious in this question, in order to resolve those problems now (unless they want to lose further orders to CFM and possible chances of powering any other kind of airplane to either CFM, GE or RR).
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines After Indigo Incident

Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:43 am

rbavfan wrote:
I still say as this affect the 1100G & not the other variants that it has to do with the engine mounts on the 1100G both being on the core. The CS100/300 engine mounts are 1 on core & 1 on the fan. This is what lead to the bowing of the shaft when hot. It could be due to tork & twisting motion. Otherwise why has this not shown up in CS series airframes? Maybe Airbus should try and mount to the fan case with the fwd mount.


I bet both mounting points on the core is easier for airbus. Perhaps there was some pressure on pratt to accept that arrangement. Hindsight had shown that to be unwise.
 
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:25 am

O530CarrisPT wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
These are not teething problems. These are fixes of fixes of fixes. The P&W engine saga has been going on for how long? Each iteration of the story says the problem is now solved.

Frankly, at this point I do not believe a damn thing Pratt says.


I honestly think that Pratt & Whitney fumbled badly with the GTF engine for the A320neo. Those problems which are happening on the A320neo engines should have been rectified before being certified, in my opinion.
.


Not realistic to find everything before. Airline Business is different from test flights. Even if you are simulating daily rotations, you still have differences from the real thing.

I think things are thrown out of Proportion on A.net regarding the PW. Yes, those issues are not nice, but we are talking about an entirely new engine after 3 decades, which now has been used 2 years.
 
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:21 am

TheSonntag wrote:
O530CarrisPT wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
These are not teething problems. These are fixes of fixes of fixes. The P&W engine saga has been going on for how long? Each iteration of the story says the problem is now solved.

Frankly, at this point I do not believe a damn thing Pratt says.


I honestly think that Pratt & Whitney fumbled badly with the GTF engine for the A320neo. Those problems which are happening on the A320neo engines should have been rectified before being certified, in my opinion.
.


Not realistic to find everything before. Airline Business is different from test flights. Even if you are simulating daily rotations, you still have differences from the real thing.

I think things are thrown out of Proportion on A.net regarding the PW. Yes, those issues are not nice, but we are talking about an entirely new engine after 3 decades, which now has been used 2 years.


So, as I said, P&W must act now to solve those problems on the engine (those problems are not being blown out of proportion, since perception matters). I'm worried about those, because P&W could have here a good engine which could power other future airplanes (including widebodies). But again, those problems with the PW1100G-JM engine on the A320neo are undermining the confidence in the engine and in Pratt & Whitney.

PS: I did not want really to say "Those problems which are happening on the A320neo engines should have been rectified before being certified" but rather "Those problems which are happening on the A320neo engines should have been rectified before being delivered to the customer". I admit that made a serious mistake here.
Last edited by O530CarrisPT on Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:27 am

TheSonntag wrote:
O530CarrisPT wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
These are not teething problems. These are fixes of fixes of fixes. The P&W engine saga has been going on for how long? Each iteration of the story says the problem is now solved.

Frankly, at this point I do not believe a damn thing Pratt says.


I honestly think that Pratt & Whitney fumbled badly with the GTF engine for the A320neo. Those problems which are happening on the A320neo engines should have been rectified before being certified, in my opinion.
.


Not realistic to find everything before. Airline Business is different from test flights. Even if you are simulating daily rotations, you still have differences from the real thing.

I think things are thrown out of Proportion on A.net regarding the PW. Yes, those issues are not nice, but we are talking about an entirely new engine after 3 decades, which now has been used 2 years.



:checkmark: :checkmark:

Agreed. Considering that with the JT9D it was not until the JT9D-7Q that PW got it substantially right, one would think that there is still hope for the PW1100G...


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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:30 am

Faro wrote:

:checkmark: :checkmark:

Agreed. Considering that with the JT9D it was not until the JT9D-7Q that PW got it substantially right, one would think that there is still hope for the PW1100G...

Faro


I still have hope, since I still think Pratt & Whitney could deliver a revolutionary engine (like Rolls-Royce's RB211 engine was), but my hope is waning after those problems with the engine.

I'm not saying that the engine is bad per se (as is demonstrating on either the Bombardier's CSeries, the Embraer E2 or Mitsubishi's MRJ), but these problems are already showing that Pratt must act now to get the GTF engine right or Pratt will suffer severe consequences for their reputation as a engine manufacturer.
Last edited by O530CarrisPT on Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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jupiter2
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:38 am

zeke wrote:
jupiter2 wrote:
Indian weather is no more extreme than the south west U.S.A or what could be found in other areas of the world.


The pollution is some of the worlds worst.


Well if that was the cause it would be happening to other engine types as well. Pollution is terrible in China as well, yet doesn't seem to affect engine wear there and it's not like they are operating in polluted air all the time. Weather and pollution excuses are just that, excuses. PW need to get the engine right.
 
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BoeingVista
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:21 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Not good. Seems PW's recovery strategy has just melted down.

Dunno if "just" is the right word there...

There's a REASON that PW hasn't been selected to independently power any new widebody derivative by Boeing or Airbus for the last 21yrs, and it doesn't seem like that's going to be changing anyyyyyyy time soon.


Nope nail GE and RR on for the 797.
BV
 
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Revelation
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:06 pm

QuarkFly wrote:
flee wrote:
william wrote:
Teething problems, most new engines have them.

Sorry, but teething problems are supposed to be minor and can be permanently fixed in a short space of time. These repeated IFS incidents are really serious... I think it would be wise for Airbus to tell PW that no more deliveries will be made unless all the issues are fixed. It is so obvious that there are some fundamental issues that need to be attended to!


The PW GTF was first flight tested in 2008, the engine for the C-Series first flew in 2010, the PW1100 for the A320neo first flew in 2013 and entered service in January 2016 (should not have happened, Airbus has some blame -- the engine clearly was not ready). Nothing but trouble since then. So it has been a decade of testing and in service...We should be well past teething problems. PW may have fundamental flaws it is dealing with....

...They say the gearbox of the GTF is not the problem...But I wonder if the higher shaft speed, balance, torsion stresses of a GTF is manifesting itself in other ways...on the rotor, bearings, etc...and that a gearbox is indirectly the problem.

Not sure I'd go with "fundamental flaws". It could be, but we have no evidence that it is. The best evidence we have is viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1386239&start=150#p20181169 which describes a transition from liftoff seal to improved liftoff seal to dry face seal for the third shaft bearing seal. This could be happening due to issues with the seal design/implementation itself or perhaps due to second order effects.

An interesting post from that thread:

Newbiepilot wrote:
This article is speculating that 98 engines may be affected

On Thursday, in response to a query by TOI, PW said a total of 98 engines worldwide could be affected but currently what is confirmed is that 43 are affected by the regulator’s directive. Earlier in the week, on Monday, PW said in a statement that “the current population of impacted engines is 43 engines installed on 32 aircraft, of which 21 aircraft have one engine with the modified configuration, and 11 aircraft have two engines with that configuration”. Airbus had then said that around 30% of 113 A320neo aircraft in operation worldwide are equipped with either both or one engine affected category.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 937556.cms

Is the problem worse than originally thought?

So now for India at least, the airplane with "one engine with modified configuration" is no longer allowed to fly.
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keesje
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:34 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Not good. Seems PW's recovery strategy has just melted down.

Dunno if "just" is the right word there...

There's a REASON that PW hasn't been selected to independently power any new widebody derivative by Boeing or Airbus for the last 21yrs, and it doesn't seem like that's going to be changing anyyyyyyy time soon.


Well it has on the CSeries, E2, MRJ and MS21. That said I would be conservative to if responsible..

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
These incidents with the PW1100G engine really makes you wonder how the heck it ever got certified.


That's why we have to applaud authorities for being uncooperative, strict, sticking by the rules and non commercial. We have seen (IMO) authorities fail here, perhaps the EASA on this NEO engine, the FAA on the 787 batteries. Maybe they were under commercial / strategic pressure? Hopefully they take some lessons learned.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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BoeingVista
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:38 pm

Revelation wrote:
Not sure I'd go with "fundamental flaws". It could be, but we have no evidence that it is. The best evidence we have is viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1386239&start=150#p20181169 which describes a transition from liftoff seal to improved liftoff seal to dry face seal for the third shaft bearing seal. This could be happening due to issues with the seal design/implementation itself or perhaps due to second order effects.


My theory from way back was that the PW GTF for the A320NEO engine is hung on the wing differently from the other GTF's and pictures suggested may even have been flight tested in the normal GTF configuration not the one used on the A320NEO they certainly didn't use the A320 pylon, so when they actually got it on the A320 pylons the stresses and flex was different. Its in an old thread somewhere.
BV
 
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Revelation
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:39 pm

BoeingVista wrote:
My theory from way back was that the PW GTF for the A320NEO engine is hung on the wing differently from the other GTF's and pictures suggested may even have been flight tested in the normal GTF configuration not the one used on the A320NEO they certainly didn't use the A320 pylon, so when they actually got it on the A320 pylons the stresses and flex was different. Its in an old thread somewhere.

It's an interesting theory. I wonder if it will ever be confirmed or denied?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has it's beaches, it's homeland and thoughts of it's own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has it's seasons, it's evenings and songs of it's own
 
WIederling
Posts: 6168
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:09 pm

Revelation wrote:
BoeingVista wrote:
My theory from way back was that the PW GTF for the A320NEO engine is hung on the wing differently from the other GTF's and pictures suggested may even have been flight tested in the normal GTF configuration not the one used on the A320NEO they certainly didn't use the A320 pylon, so when they actually got it on the A320 pylons the stresses and flex was different. Its in an old thread somewhere.

It's an interesting theory. I wonder if it will ever be confirmed or denied?


How are GTF engine numbers distributed over aircraft type?
IMU the Airbus hung GTF are the (distinct) majority of delivered engines?
Murphy is an optimist
 
Egerton
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Re: India Grounds Airbus Planes With Troubled Pratt & Whitney Engines

Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:41 pm

As far as I was concerned, proven. The 747 test bed never flew with the configeration of the bits connecting the engine to the A320 pylon.
Last edited by Egerton on Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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