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Zoedyn
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Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:40 am

Per the report in the link below, slots to Cuba made available due to the dropping out of several carriers are sparking a fierce row over the competition for how they should be distributed by the DOT.

The big three US airlines all are proposing increasing flights to Cuba.

JetBlue argued “if the larger airlines are allowed to fly 50-seat regional jets, it would hurt consumers and low-cost competitors. ”

United retorted “JetBlue’s intransigence on this issue is nothing more than a thinly veiled effort to derail, on a meritless technicality, United’s superior proposal”.

Delta also accused JetBlue of making irrelevant claims about its “dartboard” approach to the Caribbean and using improper analysis in opposing it getting a slot.

If you were to assume the role of redistributing the newly available slots to Cuba, how would you distribute them based on the arguments and factual information presented by the carriers?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... el-flights
 
727200
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:48 am

B6 needs to focus on their own internal mess and quit trying to start fights with the big boys. Their approach reminds me of the same with a guy known as "Rocket man."
 
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September11
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:14 am

Feeling bad for Eastern Air Lines....... they flew eight 737s (including new 738) to every corner in Cuba before all this took place
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Varsity1
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:32 am

Jetblue's management has become so out of touch it's unbelievable, it's like the USA's version of QR's managment. The Airline is in dead last place on operational performance, poor financial performance and strategically a rudderless boat. Yet they want to lecture the big 3 on flying 50 seat E-jets, when they themselves are flying 100 seat E-jets.

Unreal.
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enilria
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:39 am

Zoedyn wrote:
Per the report in the link below, slots to Cuba made available due to the dropping out of several carriers are sparking a fierce row over the competition for how they should be distributed by the DOT.

The big three US airlines all are proposing increasing flights to Cuba.

JetBlue argued “if the larger airlines are allowed to fly 50-seat regional jets, it would hurt consumers and low-cost competitors. ”

United retorted “JetBlue’s intransigence on this issue is nothing more than a thinly veiled effort to derail, on a meritless technicality, United’s superior proposal”.

Delta also accused JetBlue of making irrelevant claims about its “dartboard” approach to the Caribbean and using improper analysis in opposing it getting a slot.

If you were to assume the role of redistributing the newly available slots to Cuba, how would you distribute them based on the arguments and factual information presented by the carriers?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... el-flights

The motive of the Big 3 USA carriers is to tie up the slots using as few seats as possible to lock out competitors and get fares up. If a carrier is allowed to hold a slot with a 50 seat jet that's fine until another carrier proposes a larger aircraft, at which time it should be reallocated.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:02 am

enilria wrote:
The motive of the Big 3 USA carriers is to tie up the slots using as few seats as possible to lock out competitors and get fares up. If a carrier is allowed to hold a slot with a 50 seat jet that's fine until another carrier proposes a larger aircraft, at which time it should be reallocated.

Which is of course ridiculous, as the same carrier would then whine when the opposite starts happening, and competitors fly widebodies with capacity-dumped fare, to reduce the seat cost.

"OMG, they're flying 250 seaters into a market we calculate only suits (INSERT NUMBER CONVENIENT TO JETBLUE) seats!"
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
tphuang
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:19 am

Varsity1 wrote:
Jetblue's management has become so out of touch it's unbelievable, it's like the USA's version of QR's managment. The Airline is in dead last place on operational performance, poor financial performance and strategically a rudderless boat. Yet they want to lecture the big 3 on flying 50 seat E-jets, when they themselves are flying 100 seat E-jets.

Unreal.

except that in the past, DOT has shown preference over larger jets in previous rounds of slot allocation. (For their JFK/FLL to HAV, they are still using A320.) And Delta has already abandoned most of their slots out of JFK, which I'm sure DOT is thrilled about. It's quite clear that B6 along with AA have shown the greatest commitment to Cuba market. Not sure what they see! So why can't they make argument that they think would help them get the slots. It's about getting slots. Carriers will make any arguments they think which may help them.

I don't see how their operational performance has anything to do with this. They have a well above average margin system wide (better than even Delta) and the highest margin in the competitive NYC/BOS/FLL market. Either way, neither point have any relevance to slot allocation.

B6 needs to focus on their own internal mess and quit trying to start fights with the big boys. Their approach reminds me of the same with a guy known as "Rocket man."

they kill "big boys" in the JFK to Caribbean market. And they do really well out of FLL to Caribbean market. Why shouldn't they try to get more slots? Should we just hand all the flying rights to legacies and get rid of competition?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:11 am

tphuang wrote:
Should we just hand all the flying rights to legacies and get rid of competition?


That's exactly what US3 would like, yes.
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jumbojet
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:26 am

727200 wrote:
B6 needs to focus on their own internal mess and quit trying to start fights with the big boys. Their approach reminds me of the same with a guy known as "Rocket man."



exactly. My thoughts as well. Yesterday was as clear a day as one can have on the east coast for flying and yet JetBlue still managed to delay over 20% of their flight schedule. B6 if your listening, forget about Cuba and get your house in order. Good airlines blame outside factors like ATC for chronically delayed flights. Great airlines find ways to solve those problems and make them better. Guess which one B6 is?

Side note, I actually got the JetBlue credit card thinking that once the A320 mods are done, I would give them another try but with internal issues such a mess and the inability to get flights out on time, looks like its time to send it to the shredder.
 
StuckinCMHland
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:29 am

Zoedyn wrote:
If you were to assume the role of redistributing the newly available slots to Cuba, how would you distribute them based on the arguments and factual information presented by the carriers?


If I assumed the role I would make sure no US-based airline flew to Cuba. Why should the US Government support one of the worst oppressive governments on Earth so a few people can spend $$ on beaches, lousy food and poor hotels that line the pockets of the Communists running the place?
 
jumbojet
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:37 am

Varsity1 wrote:
Jetblue's management has become so out of touch it's unbelievable, it's like the USA's version of QR's managment. The Airline is in dead last place on operational performance, poor financial performance and strategically a rudderless boat. Yet they want to lecture the big 3 on flying 50 seat E-jets, when they themselves are flying 100 seat E-jets.

Unreal.


And, they stick their nose where it doesn't even belong like with the Delta/Korean JV and the latest matter with UA and Air China and that 5th freedom flight. If B6 wants to play in the same sandbox as the US legacies then maybe they should try and become more of a global airline. In the meantime, they should worry about their own internal struggles before trying to take a bite out of something that they have no business biting into in the first place. You don't hear of Spirit, Southwest, Alaska etc. complaining about these things. Those airlines worry primarily about themselves and no surprise, they all have better customer service ratings then B6.
 
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:44 am

tphuang wrote:
I don't see how their operational performance has anything to do with this. They have a well above average margin system wide (better than even Delta) and the highest margin in the competitive NYC/BOS/FLL market. Either way, neither point have any relevance to slot allocation.

B6 needs to focus on their own internal mess and quit trying to start fights with the big boys. Their approach reminds me of the same with a guy known as "Rocket man."

they kill "big boys" in the JFK to Caribbean market. And they do really well out of FLL to Caribbean market. Why shouldn't they try to get more slots? Should we just hand all the flying rights to legacies and get rid of competition?


We'll see how long that lasts. With rankings tanking, 1 out of every 5 flights delayed, even on a clear day...there is only so much people will take.
 
FlyinRabbit88
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:17 pm

The delays and the operational issues just seem to only be getting worse. Jetblue keeps kicking the can down the road towards getting a contract with the Pilots and the upcoming union vote with the FAs.
 
tphuang
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:59 pm

jumbojet wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I don't see how their operational performance has anything to do with this. They have a well above average margin system wide (better than even Delta) and the highest margin in the competitive NYC/BOS/FLL market. Either way, neither point have any relevance to slot allocation.

B6 needs to focus on their own internal mess and quit trying to start fights with the big boys. Their approach reminds me of the same with a guy known as "Rocket man."

they kill "big boys" in the JFK to Caribbean market. And they do really well out of FLL to Caribbean market. Why shouldn't they try to get more slots? Should we just hand all the flying rights to legacies and get rid of competition?


We'll see how long that lasts. With rankings tanking, 1 out of every 5 flights delayed, even on a clear day...there is only so much people will take.


Yet, they still kill Delta in profit margin in NYC and is beloved in New York.

jumbojet wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
Jetblue's management has become so out of touch it's unbelievable, it's like the USA's version of QR's managment. The Airline is in dead last place on operational performance, poor financial performance and strategically a rudderless boat. Yet they want to lecture the big 3 on flying 50 seat E-jets, when they themselves are flying 100 seat E-jets.

Unreal.


And, they stick their nose where it doesn't even belong like with the Delta/Korean JV and the latest matter with UA and Air China and that 5th freedom flight. If B6 wants to play in the same sandbox as the US legacies then maybe they should try and become more of a global airline. In the meantime, they should worry about their own internal struggles before trying to take a bite out of something that they have no business biting into in the first place. You don't hear of Spirit, Southwest, Alaska etc. complaining about these things. Those airlines worry primarily about themselves and no surprise, they all have better customer service ratings then B6.


You are completely mixing up separate issues. This is purely about Havana slots. I'm not sure how B6 complaints in JVs even matter here. These are standard pitch an airline should make to say they are better fit to receives slots. WN would be stupid to not make similar pitches in their proposals.

jumbojet wrote:
727200 wrote:
B6 needs to focus on their own internal mess and quit trying to start fights with the big boys. Their approach reminds me of the same with a guy known as "Rocket man."



exactly. My thoughts as well. Yesterday was as clear a day as one can have on the east coast for flying and yet JetBlue still managed to delay over 20% of their flight schedule. B6 if your listening, forget about Cuba and get your house in order. Good airlines blame outside factors like ATC for chronically delayed flights. Great airlines find ways to solve those problems and make them better. Guess which one B6 is?

Side note, I actually got the JetBlue credit card thinking that once the A320 mods are done, I would give them another try but with internal issues such a mess and the inability to get flights out on time, looks like its time to send it to the shredder.


It's too bad Delta can't make JFK-HAV work outside of Saturdays. If B6 forget about Cuba, then we at NYC would have to cross the river to New Jersey if we want to fly to Cuba.

And it's your loss for not getting JetBlue card, it gives 2 points per $ spent on groceries and have much easier point redemption system. Try see how many sky pesos are needed for a D1 seat.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:08 pm

Has the DOT given any hints when it will award the open slots?

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
WIederling
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:54 pm

StuckinCMHland wrote:
If I assumed the role I would make sure no US-based airline flew to Cuba. Why should the US Government support one of the worst oppressive governments on Earth so a few people can spend $$ on beaches, lousy food and poor hotels that line the pockets of the Communists running the place?


You travel by time machine from the 50ties everyday to interact in today's world?
Or where your relatives disowned when Castro ousted Batista ?
Murphy is an optimist
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:49 pm

I believe SY surrendered their slots. Who is going to get them?
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DL747400
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:55 pm

enilria wrote:
The motive of the Big 3 USA carriers is to tie up the slots using as few seats as possible to lock out competitors and get fares up.


Oh here we go again..... I was wondering how long it was going to take you to jump in and start spewing your anti-US3 rants again. Your bias is so very tiring.
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jetbluefan1
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:09 pm

Zoedyn wrote:
Per the report in the link below, slots to Cuba made available due to the dropping out of several carriers are sparking a fierce row over the competition for how they should be distributed by the DOT.

The big three US airlines all are proposing increasing flights to Cuba.

JetBlue argued “if the larger airlines are allowed to fly 50-seat regional jets, it would hurt consumers and low-cost competitors. ”

United retorted “JetBlue’s intransigence on this issue is nothing more than a thinly veiled effort to derail, on a meritless technicality, United’s superior proposal”.

Delta also accused JetBlue of making irrelevant claims about its “dartboard” approach to the Caribbean and using improper analysis in opposing it getting a slot.

If you were to assume the role of redistributing the newly available slots to Cuba, how would you distribute them based on the arguments and factual information presented by the carriers?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... el-flights


Thanks for posting. If I were to distribute the newly available slots, AA and B6 would be priority given that they have shown the strongest commitment to the market, and the newly proposed flights (specifically from South Florida) cater to a significant demand base.

DL gets credit for looking to grow MIA-HAV, although I'm not sure how much the DOT appreciates them pulling back JFK-HAV to Sat-only service.

WN gets credit for looking to grow FLL-HAV, but they abandoned two non-HAV Cuban markets very quickly - without even trying to adjust capacity, as AA/B6 have done.

UA is catering to a miniscule amount of IAH connecting traffic from the West/Midwest that can easily be handled by DL over ATL, or WN/B6/AA over their South Florida hubs.

Either way, I expect at least 3 carriers to be awarded more slots, with the majority going to AA/B6.
 
alfa164
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:42 pm

StuckinCMHland wrote:
If I assumed the role I would make sure no US-based airline flew to Cuba. Why should the US Government support one of the worst oppressive governments on Earth so a few people can spend $$ on beaches, lousy food and poor hotels that line the pockets of the Communists running the place?


Maybe because only one of the "worst oppressive governments on earth" would prevent its own citizens from visiting any country they want to visit... just because a few expats from that country have far more political influence in an important state than their numbers justify?

The US government should not play the role of telling its citizens where they can go, where they can stay, what they can eat... or what quality of beach they must visit. Now that is oppressive... and not the "American way".
 
727200
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:44 pm

Or you mean to say that you hope B6 gets additional slots. Reality is they have MAJOR operational issues that are not being addressed and only take it out on passengers. You do not reward 'bad behavior' and the DOT should ignore them until those issues are corrected.
 
SelseyBill
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:44 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Jetblue's management has become so out of touch it's unbelievable, it's like the USA's version of QR's managment.


For someone using 'varsity' as their name; this is an unbelievably ill-informed comment IMO.....

If B6 management is comparable to QR, then they must be a very well run airline.

Just because you evidently don't like QR; doesn't make them badly managed......
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:59 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Jetblue's management has become so out of touch it's unbelievable, it's like the USA's version of QR's managment. The Airline is in dead last place on operational performance, poor financial performance and strategically a rudderless boat. Yet they want to lecture the big 3 on flying 50 seat E-jets, when they themselves are flying 100 seat E-jets.

Unreal.


Yep. Plus, at least as far as I looked, no one is flying 50 seat E-jets, though I didn't look for every city. AA was putting some E75's on routes but all I see are 73H right now.
 
blrsea
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:20 pm

StuckinCMHland wrote:
Zoedyn wrote:
If you were to assume the role of redistributing the newly available slots to Cuba, how would you distribute them based on the arguments and factual information presented by the carriers?


If I assumed the role I would make sure no US-based airline flew to Cuba. Why should the US Government support one of the worst oppressive governments on Earth so a few people can spend $$ on beaches, lousy food and poor hotels that line the pockets of the Communists running the place?


When US govt does't mind flights to/from China, Saudi Arabia etc, why should it apply only to Cuba? And why should the govt decide where its citizens decide to spend their money?
 
N212R
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:23 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Which is of course ridiculous, as the same carrier would then whine when the opposite starts happening, and competitors fly widebodies with capacity-dumped fare, to reduce the seat cost.


Who says the opposite is going to start happening anytime soon? In their haste to monetize the ridiculous hype about a "new" Cuba the big 3 drank the proverbial bean-counters Koolaid and are left with no options but to play cynical defense.
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:27 pm

This thread has gotten ridiculous quite quickly. I'm the first to say I don't like B6 wall street mgmt. team, but what is being said here is just hating. I swear I think a good majority here would not be happy until we have 1 airline in this country. Of course B6 is butting heads with the big 3! They are extremely successful and a thorn to all three of them. In reality AA actually has had the biggest drop in customer service, they are becoming spirit IMO. Dirt cheap fares, trolling for those kind of pax, and changing onboard product to match. B6 last I checked still operates the majority of their flights to or thru airports with major issues, even on a sunny day, WIND has caused delays, when there wasn't a Bomb cyclone the past month. I cant speak for UA and I do fly DL a lot, they whine too much, but deliver a very solid product consistently, as does B6.

This thread is about Cuba, however, and it's clear B6 owns the Caribbean, they've done better than well there, kicked AA out of what was "their" market all over that region, and that for me and for the route authorities should be the only issue when deciding who gets Cuba routes, dedication to the market. You cant argue B6 isn't dedicated to the entire region.
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RJNUT
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:42 pm

I am guessing the US3 into Cuba pick up considerable transit traffic from Europe thru their mega hubs. B6 I suppose could feed the EK network at FLL and JFK, but not so much into Europe.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:12 pm

The DOT has staff with decades of experience sorting through creative (sometimes worthless, obdurate) arguments put forward by carriers with lots of highly paid legal staff, their own or contract. Transparent self-interest is only one of the characteristics for which they look.

The OP would do well to look at the mission of the DOT and its charter for public welfare and competition. 'USA Today' is a little light for that.
 
Blerg
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:12 pm

RJNUT wrote:
I am guessing the US3 into Cuba pick up considerable transit traffic from Europe thru their mega hubs. B6 I suppose could feed the EK network at FLL and JFK, but not so much into Europe.


I might be wrong but I think most Europeans who visit Cuba do so via tour agencies and those have deals with various European carriers.
 
WIederling
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:24 pm

Blerg wrote:
I might be wrong but I think most Europeans who visit Cuba do so via tour agencies and those have deals with various European carriers.


If you ask around people tell you that they avoid US transit.
Long time standing for the US having no concept of "transit travellers".
More recent that little increase in taking an effort to make things unhospitable.
Murphy is an optimist
 
RJNUT
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:37 pm

Blerg wrote:
RJNUT wrote:
I am guessing the US3 into Cuba pick up considerable transit traffic from Europe thru their mega hubs. B6 I suppose could feed the EK network at FLL and JFK, but not so much into Europe.


I might be wrong but I think most Europeans who visit Cuba do so via tour agencies and those have deals with various European carriers.


Oh probably so for the beaches goers. I am thinking more of cultural and business interests that aren't quite so restricted as the US travelers and companies. I wonder how to find how many connections AA carries from MIA-HAV originating out of the W. Hemisphere. Remember this was not an option for European travelers before , what ,3 years ago? Basically HAV is just additional spoke the US3 and their respective alliances can offer within their networks.
 
RJNUT
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:40 pm

WIederling wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I might be wrong but I think most Europeans who visit Cuba do so via tour agencies and those have deals with various European carriers.


If you ask around people tell you that they avoid US transit.
Long time standing for the US having no concept of "transit travellers".
More recent that little increase in taking an effort to make things unhospitable.


Oh and I fully get avoiding US transit, but I think they still exist in some fashion regardless of the gripes and inconvenience.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:58 pm

jumbojet wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I don't see how their operational performance has anything to do with this. They have a well above average margin system wide (better than even Delta) and the highest margin in the competitive NYC/BOS/FLL market. Either way, neither point have any relevance to slot allocation.

B6 needs to focus on their own internal mess and quit trying to start fights with the big boys. Their approach reminds me of the same with a guy known as "Rocket man."

they kill "big boys" in the JFK to Caribbean market. And they do really well out of FLL to Caribbean market. Why shouldn't they try to get more slots? Should we just hand all the flying rights to legacies and get rid of competition?


We'll see how long that lasts. With rankings tanking, 1 out of every 5 flights delayed, even on a clear day...there is only so much people will take.


I'm sorry, but you have continually ranted every chance you get about Jetblue, are a Delta-fanboy, but yet got a Jetblue credit card, only to turn around and shred the card? I think somebody else needs to worry about getting their house in order and spend less time focusing on Jetblue. lol

NWADTWE16 wrote:
This thread has gotten ridiculous quite quickly. I'm the first to say I don't like B6 wall street mgmt. team, but what is being said here is just hating. I swear I think a good majority here would not be happy until we have 1 airline in this country.


It's not that they want one carrier, they just want their preferred carrier to win. In every thread. It's the same as AvB. This forum is more a glorified sports bar than enthusiasts forum.
-Dave
 
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scbriml
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:17 pm

RJNUT wrote:
I am guessing the US3 into Cuba pick up considerable transit traffic from Europe thru their mega hubs.


I'd be surprised. :shakehead:

Most Europeans going to Cuba will be on package holidays and be flying direct to HAV or VRA. Nobody in their right mind would transit via the US.
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Andy33
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:07 pm

scbriml wrote:
RJNUT wrote:
I am guessing the US3 into Cuba pick up considerable transit traffic from Europe thru their mega hubs.


I'd be surprised. :shakehead:

Most Europeans going to Cuba will be on package holidays and be flying direct to HAV or VRA. Nobody in their right mind would transit via the US.


And for those who aren't on package holidays, there are multiple daily scheduled flights to HAV from Madrid with connections from all over Europe.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:07 pm

RJNUT wrote:
I am guessing the US3 into Cuba pick up considerable transit traffic from Europe thru their mega hubs. B6 I suppose could feed the EK network at FLL and JFK, but not so much into Europe.


Even non-US citizens and those in transit from outside the USA must comply with the US Department of Commerce categories for travel to Cuba. Therefore it is still illegal under US law for a British citizen to fly LHR-MIA-HAV for tourism purposes. How many do I have no idea, but I wouldn’t be surprised if gate agents denied boarding to foreign citizens in transit to Cuba on a semi-regular basis.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:15 pm

Im a regular flier to HAV. The flights are empty. Beyond empty. In 15 years of flying, ive never seen such low load factors consistently on any route.

Why anyone would fight for these slots is beyond me.
 
RJNUT
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:59 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
RJNUT wrote:
I am guessing the US3 into Cuba pick up considerable transit traffic from Europe thru their mega hubs. B6 I suppose could feed the EK network at FLL and JFK, but not so much into Europe.


Even non-US citizens and those in transit from outside the USA must comply with the US Department of Commerce categories for travel to Cuba. Therefore it is still illegal under US law for a British citizen to fly LHR-MIA-HAV for tourism purposes. How many do I have no idea, but I wouldn’t be surprised if gate agents denied boarding to foreign citizens in transit to Cuba on a semi-regular basis.

WOW did not know it was tightened down in such away. There really is little reason to even have most of these flights then (which I guess everyone here seems to pretty much agree, albeit for various reasoning). I can understand restricting your own citizens travel for political reasons but to restrict nationals of other countries who are freer to travel there is absurd. You are only hurting your own US based companies that are offering the flights.
 
axiom
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:49 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Im a regular flier to HAV. The flights are empty. Beyond empty. In 15 years of flying, ive never seen such low load factors consistently on any route.

Why anyone would fight for these slots is beyond me.


What routes are you flying regularly? MIA/FLL/TPA-HAV are holding their own. These markets still see regular third party characters -- if there wasn't a lucrative market, people wouldn't be putting up their cash to charter 737s every day.
 
MAH4546
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:21 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Im a regular flier to HAV. The flights are empty. Beyond empty. In 15 years of flying, ive never seen such low load factors consistently on any route.

Why anyone would fight for these slots is beyond me.


Because Havana flights from Florida aren’t empty. They are working out quite well.
a.
 
NWADTWE16
Posts: 464
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:23 am

So then he is saying NYC-HAV is empty? I want to hear this too, whats the failure route
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
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Super80Fan
Posts: 836
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:39 am

Yep, all the fake airline CEO's on here are correct, the US government should just shutdown B6/WN/NK/F9/G4/SY/AS/HA and just allow AA, DL, and UA to operate here in the US.

You people get more and more pathetic everyday.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
 
OB1504
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:17 am

StuckinCMHland wrote:
If I assumed the role I would make sure no US-based airline flew to Cuba. Why should the US Government support one of the worst oppressive governments on Earth so a few people can spend $$ on beaches, lousy food and poor hotels that line the pockets of the Communists running the place?


It’s largely VFR traffic, so what you’d be doing is stopping families from seeing each other and sending items. American tourists don’t really go to Cuba because of the travel restrictions and subpar offerings compared to the rest of the Caribbean.

jumbojet wrote:
And, they stick their nose where it doesn't even belong like with the Delta/Korean JV and the latest matter with UA and Air China and that 5th freedom flight. If B6 wants to play in the same sandbox as the US legacies then maybe they should try and become more of a global airline. In the meantime, they should worry about their own internal struggles before trying to take a bite out of something that they have no business biting into in the first place. You don't hear of Spirit, Southwest, Alaska etc. complaining about these things. Those airlines worry primarily about themselves and no surprise, they all have better customer service ratings then B6.


I refuse to believe that Spirit manages to have better customer service ratings than JetBlue.
 
fastmover
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:49 am

727200 wrote:
B6 needs to focus on their own internal mess and quit trying to start fights with the big boys. Their approach reminds me of the same with a guy known as "Rocket man."



Funny I don’t remember jetblue threatening to nuke anyone.
This is like the third thread where in essence people are saying jetblue should get what it gets and not get upset.
Why is that? 4 large airlines control almost all of the US airline industry and you guys get annoyed that jetblue raises objections.
Not really starting fights as much as they are looking out for their best interests as does any airline.
 
fastmover
Posts: 244
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Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:56 am

Varsity1 wrote:
Jetblue's management has become so out of touch it's unbelievable, it's like the USA's version of QR's managment. The Airline is in dead last place on operational performance, poor financial performance and strategically a rudderless boat. Yet they want to lecture the big 3 on flying 50 seat E-jets, when they themselves are flying 100 seat E-jets.

Unreal.




Do me a favor and post their poor financial performance, I think you are very misinformed.
 
fastmover
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:02 am

jumbojet wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
Jetblue's management has become so out of touch it's unbelievable, it's like the USA's version of QR's managment. The Airline is in dead last place on operational performance, poor financial performance and strategically a rudderless boat. Yet they want to lecture the big 3 on flying 50 seat E-jets, when they themselves are flying 100 seat E-jets.

Unreal.


And, they stick their nose where it doesn't even belong like with the Delta/Korean JV and the latest matter with UA and Air China and that 5th freedom flight. If B6 wants to play in the same sandbox as the US legacies then maybe they should try and become more of a global airline. In the meantime, they should worry about their own internal struggles before trying to take a bite out of something that they have no business biting into in the first place. You don't hear of Spirit, Southwest, Alaska etc. complaining about these things. Those airlines worry primarily about themselves and no surprise, they all have better customer service ratings then B6.




aka go color in the corner jetblue.
I know it’s hard for you but their nose does belong there. They are an airline in and industry where these thing are important.
It’s alread a David and Goliath battle so jetblue has no choice but to fight for this stuff.
 
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FA9295
Posts: 689
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:12 am

jumbojet wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
Jetblue's management has become so out of touch it's unbelievable, it's like the USA's version of QR's managment. The Airline is in dead last place on operational performance, poor financial performance and strategically a rudderless boat. Yet they want to lecture the big 3 on flying 50 seat E-jets, when they themselves are flying 100 seat E-jets.

Unreal.


And, they stick their nose where it doesn't even belong like with the Delta/Korean JV and the latest matter with UA and Air China and that 5th freedom flight. If B6 wants to play in the same sandbox as the US legacies then maybe they should try and become more of a global airline. In the meantime, they should worry about their own internal struggles before trying to take a bite out of something that they have no business biting into in the first place. You don't hear of Spirit, Southwest, Alaska etc. complaining about these things. Those airlines worry primarily about themselves and no surprise, they all have better customer service ratings then B6.

As correct as you are here, it's not like B6 can just "become more of a global airline." The only way that they can increase their fleet and destinations that dramatically would be some sort of merger, and that's probably the last thing that they want to think about right now...
 
ericm2031
Posts: 802
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:58 pm

Have any HAV slots been reallocated yet? From what I can gather, F9, SY, AS, NK have all abandoned HAV slots and I'm just trying to see if all of those are up for grabs or if some were already reallocated. I recall UA being pleased with 1x weekly IAH service and wanting to increase it. I could also see them adding ORD
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 4767
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:51 pm

The “failure” route was mentioned in one of the cities you listed. Just follow what airlines are doing specifically cutting back to once a week service. tells the tale well
 
axiom
Posts: 463
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:39 pm

Re: Competition for Cuba flights sparks airline row: JetBlue at loggerheads with the US big three again

Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:03 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
The “failure” route was mentioned in one of the cities you listed. Just follow what airlines are doing specifically cutting back to once a week service. tells the tale well


Tells the tale of one market, sure.

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