American launches Philadelphia-Mexico City

EddieDude · Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:16 pm

Congrats to AA! I remember reading in the US' inflight magazine back in 2003 that US was going to launch PHL-MEX on A319s, but that never came to fruition. Now, 15 years later PHL and MEX finally get a well deserved nonstop.

Any idea what the schedules will look like?

wenders825 · Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:17 pm

starts 05 July and will be in this week’s onsale

per internal memo. i’m sure an official press source will be out there shortly, and i can update the OP when that’s the case. once daily 319 service

enilria · Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:30 pm

That'll be tough with the DL/AM alliance. I think over time DL/AM are going to make marginal routes like this one very tough as they lock down corporates on both sides of the border.

EddieDude · Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:45 pm

enilria wrote:
That'll be tough with the DL/AM alliance. I think over time DL/AM are going to make marginal routes like this one very tough as they lock down corporates on both sides of the border.

Very good point enilria. However, this being the first and so far only PHL-MEX nonstop, AA should be able to obtain good yields from O&D passengers. I am sure AA has identified a minimum average number of O&D passengers and determined the flight is viable based on that figure. The rest of the pax will probably be mostly Mexico-Europe connections and viceversa, with a few PHL-MEX-XXX (where XXX is a Mexican city not served by AA from DFW) in cooperation with Interjet.

UALFAson · Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:47 pm

enilria wrote:
That'll be tough with the DL/AM alliance. I think over time DL/AM are going to make marginal routes like this one very tough as they lock down corporates on both sides of the border.

My guess is that AA is more interesting in capturing European bound traffic to/from MEX versus O&D on the route as they build PHL into their trans-Atlantic hub. My mother regularly worked the IAD-MEX flights for UA and said there were always huge percentages of pax connecting to and from Europe.

usflyer msp · Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:55 pm

UALFAson wrote:
enilria wrote:
That'll be tough with the DL/AM alliance. I think over time DL/AM are going to make marginal routes like this one very tough as they lock down corporates on both sides of the border.

My guess is that AA is more interesting in capturing European bound traffic to/from MEX versus O&D on the route as they build PHL into their trans-Atlantic hub. My mother regularly worked the IAD-MEX flights for UA and said there were always huge percentages of pax connecting to and from Europe.

Given the current relationship between the US and Mexico, I doubt there are many Mexicans interested in transiting the US on their way to Europe - unless it was fire sale cheap...

PHL-MEX should be fine jsut based upon the O&D traffic and connections from the Northeast. I do think this route will negatively affect the already very marginal CLT-MEX route - I think we might see it downgraded to an E175...

EddieDude · Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:59 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
Given the current relationship between the US and Mexico, I doubt there are many Mexicans interesting transiting the US on their way to Europe - unless it was fire sale cheap...

U.S. carriers and AC usually have very attractive MEX-Europe fares, and Mexicans love that. Lots of Mexicans have U.S. visas (contrary to what many a.netters think), and political beliefs or sympathies quite usually become irrelevant for routing purposes when people are planning a major vacation and want to find the cheapest deal. I doubt the connecting market of UA/AA/DL for Mexico-Europe/elsewhere has been significantly affected by the ideology, rhetoric and actions of the current administration. And I pretty much doubt it will be affected going forward.

LupineChemist · Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:06 pm

Most Mexican business travelers that would be going to Europe would have a US visa, so I don't see the transit as too much of an issue.

DaufuskieGuy · Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:12 pm

has there ever been a move to have pre clearance at MEX? If not, why not?

usairways85 · Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:16 pm

DaufuskieGuy wrote:
has there ever been a move to have pre clearance at MEX? If not, why not?

Well if anything they should have it at CUN before MEX.

Thenoflyzone · Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:31 pm

DaufuskieGuy wrote:
has there ever been a move to have pre clearance at MEX? If not, why not?

Probably lack of space.

EddieDude wrote:
U.S. carriers and AC usually have very attractive MEX-Europe fares,

YYZ and YUL have the upper hand though, as Mexicans no longer require a visa to Canada.

iyerhari · Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:32 pm

PHL is on a roll finally after years of being overlooked by AA. Surely LUS management sees PHL as being more profitable than JFK and that is reflective of their current adds at PHL.

International: BUD, ZRH, PRG, MEX
Domestic: DSM, FWA, MSN, JFK, OKC, OMA, PNS and frequency adds to YQB

I am fairly certain PHL will climb places in 2018 with all these adds. It will be interesting to see how much more cuts JFK will take. I am assuming AA/LUS management thinking maybe to depend on PHL O&D and coupled that with PHL connections can fill the plane.

DaufuskieGuy · Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:32 pm

usairways85 wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
has there ever been a move to have pre clearance at MEX? If not, why not?

Well if anything they should have it at CUN before MEX.

well maybe based on volume but MEX is more high yielding plus I imagine more connecting to overseas flights also high yielding.

DaufuskieGuy · Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:37 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
has there ever been a move to have pre clearance at MEX? If not, why not?

Probably lack of space.

EddieDude wrote:
U.S. carriers and AC usually have very attractive MEX-Europe fares,

YYZ and YUL have the upper hand though, as Mexicans no longer require a visa to Canada.

well it's on the list for consideration I believe MEX has more flights than any of these others:
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/11/04/dhs ... -following

United787 · Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:47 pm

Is anyone else surprised that PHL didn't have a non-stop to Mexico City already? 7th largest metro area in the US with no direct flight to the capital and largest city to our enormous neighboring country.

usflyer msp · Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:45 pm

EddieDude wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Given the current relationship between the US and Mexico, I doubt there are many Mexicans interesting transiting the US on their way to Europe - unless it was fire sale cheap...

I doubt the connecting market of UA/AA/DL for Mexico-Europe/elsewhere has been significantly affected by the ideology, rhetoric and actions of the current administration. And I pretty much doubt it will be affected going forward.

I disagree. If you could transit the US without clearing immigration like Europe and Canada, it might not make a difference but most Mexicans (even with a visa) I know will not deal with with US CBP unless absolutely necessary - they are not going to accept being treated like a crime suspect just to save a few dollars...

usairways85 · Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:12 pm

PHL-MEX
6:29pm - 10:10pm
MEX - PHL
9:10am - 2:55pm

Daily. So it connects to the TA banks, but it's about ~3 hour connection each way.

AaronPGH · Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:21 pm

I'm guessing this flight will likely show up as an option the next time I'm searching PIT-MEX.

MIflyer12 · Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:32 pm

United787 wrote:
Is anyone else surprised that PHL didn't have a non-stop to Mexico City already? 7th largest metro area in the US with no direct flight to the capital and largest city to our enormous neighboring country.

PHL punches way under its weight as an MSA for O&D traffic. 7th largest MSA and 19th in domestic O&D passenger count - just ahead of DTW.

DDR · Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:49 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
EddieDude wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Given the current relationship between the US and Mexico, I doubt there are many Mexicans interesting transiting the US on their way to Europe - unless it was fire sale cheap...

I doubt the connecting market of UA/AA/DL for Mexico-Europe/elsewhere has been significantly affected by the ideology, rhetoric and actions of the current administration. And I pretty much doubt it will be affected going forward.

I disagree. If you could transit the US without clearing immigration like Europe and Canada, it might not make a difference but most Mexicans (even with a visa) I know will not deal with with US CBP unless absolutely necessary - they are not going to accept being treated like a crime suspect just to save a few dollars...

Well, I know several Mexicans that have no issues with transiting through MIA and DFW. I've had many of them, in the premium cabins on flights I have worked. To each their own.

usflyer msp · Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:10 am

I'm curious as to this MEX slot came from - what did AA drop?...or did they get some of the slots AM/DL had to divest.

Brickell305 · Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:11 am

DaufuskieGuy wrote:
usairways85 wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
has there ever been a move to have pre clearance at MEX? If not, why not?

Well if anything they should have it at CUN before MEX.

well maybe based on volume but MEX is more high yielding plus I imagine more connecting to overseas flights also high yielding.

What would yields have to do with a government decision about where to open preclearance facilities?

Brickell305 · Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:21 am

Can we please put to bed this A-Net myth that people don’t connect internationally through the US because obtaining a visa is a Herculean task? First off, not only do most business travelers from countries whose citizens require a visa have 10 year multi-entry visas but most non-business (leisure and VFR) travelers have them too. Getting a US tourist visa isn’t the impossibility that many of you seem to think it is. You don’t have to climb Mt. Everest or dive to the deepest part of the sea for it. Many people who visit the US with any regularity, even if it’s less than once a year simply apply for one and keep renewing it at 10 year intervals similar to how you’d renew a drivers license or passport so that they can travel freely if the need to visit the US or transit through it ever occurred.

The main reason people are hesitant to connect through the US is the need to clear immigration and customs. However, many people will still put up with that if other more important factors are met (price is right, schedule is favorable, traveling on preferred airline, etc.)

B752OS · Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:26 am

Since people are mentioning that AA will capture passengers flying MEX-PHL-Europe, does AA already connect a sizable amount of European passengers over their other hubs like MIA and CLT?

pzurita1 · Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:35 am

usflyer msp wrote:
EddieDude wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Given the current relationship between the US and Mexico, I doubt there are many Mexicans interesting transiting the US on their way to Europe - unless it was fire sale cheap...

I doubt the connecting market of UA/AA/DL for Mexico-Europe/elsewhere has been significantly affected by the ideology, rhetoric and actions of the current administration. And I pretty much doubt it will be affected going forward.

I disagree. If you could transit the US without clearing immigration like Europe and Canada, it might not make a difference but most Mexicans (even with a visa) I know will not deal with with US CBP unless absolutely necessary - they are not going to accept being treated like a crime suspect just to save a few dollars...

Indeed, many Mexicans hold US visa. So you would think that transiting through US would be not a problem for pax flying to Europe and destinations beyond.
However, working at a travel firm, I have noticed that price-sensitive pax will endure the hassle and crime-suspect revisions while transiting to the US. However, the more affluent prefer to pay an extra prime in order to avoid such ordeal. Instead, I have noticed many prefer to avoid now US airports even if it requieres paying extra.

acentauri · Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:41 am

Come on MAH4546 - are you hiding?? What's your read on this addition. Is there enough Jersey/Philadelphia region O&D + connections, competing with existing NYC services, to support this flight year round? IMO, AA will likely cancel CLT-MEX and drive those connections through PHL. I'm not convinced AA views this flight as primarily domestic connections to Europe, since there are currently 4-5 daily DFW-MEX non-stops on AA for that purpose. It's not likely a OW driven decision either, since Iberia already offers significant European connections to MEX via MAD. The actual PHL-MEX Add itself isn't at all questionable, it's the Year Round aspect, which would probably require some commercial contract support.

LupineChemist · Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:51 am

Brickell305 wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
usairways85 wrote:
Well if anything they should have it at CUN before MEX.

well maybe based on volume but MEX is more high yielding plus I imagine more connecting to overseas flights also high yielding.

What would yields have to do with a government decision about where to open preclearance facilities?

US preclearance is paid for by the local airport. So it would make sense that a more profitable airport would have more money to pay for it.

Brickell305 · Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:20 am

LupineChemist wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:

well maybe based on volume but MEX is more high yielding plus I imagine more connecting to overseas flights also high yielding.

What would yields have to do with a government decision about where to open preclearance facilities?

US preclearance is paid for by the local airport. So it would make sense that a more profitable airport would have more money to pay for it.

How profitable an airport is has nothing to do with airline yields.

USAirALB · Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:21 am

I do wonder what the effect will be on CLT-MEX.

I believe the flight is a daily A319 year round although it may not operate daily during certain times.

The flight is sometimes flown double daily during holiday and peak periods.

UpNAWAy · Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:32 am

usflyer msp wrote:
EddieDude wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Given the current relationship between the US and Mexico, I doubt there are many Mexicans interesting transiting the US on their way to Europe - unless it was fire sale cheap...

I doubt the connecting market of UA/AA/DL for Mexico-Europe/elsewhere has been significantly affected by the ideology, rhetoric and actions of the current administration. And I pretty much doubt it will be affected going forward.

I disagree. If you could transit the US without clearing immigration like Europe and Canada, it might not make a difference but most Mexicans (even with a visa) I know will not deal with with US CBP unless absolutely necessary - they are not going to accept being treated like a crime suspect just to save a few dollars...

What lying BS. 20 million Mexicans visit the US and CBP treats them just like everyone else.

Lennundus · Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:32 am

Congrats to PHL! It's exciting to see AA adding many new routes from PHL. I wonder which routes they will add next?

jfklganyc · Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:33 am

Didnt they used to serve MEX from JFK or am I “misrememberin?”

usflyer msp · Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:38 am

UpNAWAy wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
EddieDude wrote:
I doubt the connecting market of UA/AA/DL for Mexico-Europe/elsewhere has been significantly affected by the ideology, rhetoric and actions of the current administration. And I pretty much doubt it will be affected going forward.

I disagree. If you could transit the US without clearing immigration like Europe and Canada, it might not make a difference but most Mexicans (even with a visa) I know will not deal with with US CBP unless absolutely necessary - they are not going to accept being treated like a crime suspect just to save a few dollars...

What lying BS. 20 million Mexicans visit the US and CBP treats them just like everyone else.

Are you Mexican? how would you know...

slcdeltarumd11 · Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:12 am

I think this will work, even if it means CLT gets pulled. PHL makes the most sense for o&d, northeast connections, and perfect European bank timing.

aemoreira1981 · Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:00 am

enilria wrote:
That'll be tough with the DL/AM alliance. I think over time DL/AM are going to make marginal routes like this one very tough as they lock down corporates on both sides of the border.

Doesn't AA have a codeshare with 4O to help with feed? Interjet being 25x weekly from JFK eliminates any need for AA to operate JFK-MEX...the only question is if 4O will up-gauge a flight to the A321 to compete with AM's daily 788/789 flight on JFK-MEX.

usflyer msp · Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:16 am

The AA- Interjet relationship only involves AA putting its code on some of Interjet's domestic routes. There is no relationship beyond that.

448205 · Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:26 am

usflyer msp wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

I disagree. If you could transit the US without clearing immigration like Europe and Canada, it might not make a difference but most Mexicans (even with a visa) I know will not deal with with US CBP unless absolutely necessary - they are not going to accept being treated like a crime suspect just to save a few dollars...

What lying BS. 20 million Mexicans visit the US and CBP treats them just like everyone else.

Are you Mexican? how would you know...

Because it's secret information that only mexicans can know, right? :roll:

crownvic · Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:31 am

acentauri wrote:
Come on MAH4546 - are you hiding?? What's your read on this addition. Is there enough Jersey/Philadelphia region O&D + connections, competing with existing NYC services, to support this flight year round? IMO, AA will likely cancel CLT-MEX and drive those connections through PHL. I'm not convinced AA views this flight as primarily domestic connections to Europe, since there are currently 4-5 daily DFW-MEX non-stops on AA for that purpose. It's not likely a OW driven decision either, since Iberia already offers significant European connections to MEX via MAD. The actual PHL-MEX Add itself isn't at all questionable, it's the Year Round aspect, which would probably require some commercial contract support.

Aeromexico previously operated DC-8/DC-10s on this route. Mexicana previously operated 727/D10s on this route. Hard to believe that AA cannot support a monopolized little A319 on a route that use to support multiple carriers 30-40 years ago.

Blerg · Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:11 am

People who would be flying between Europe and Mexico via Philadelphia, will they have to check-in their bags in PHL or will they go straight through their final destination?

PHLCVGAMTK · Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:32 am

B752OS wrote:
Since people are mentioning that AA will capture passengers flying MEX-PHL-Europe, does AA already connect a sizable amount of European passengers over their other hubs like MIA and CLT?

I should think that the current primary connection hub for MEX-Europe passengers on Oneworld is MAD on IB, which has the advantages of frequency, language, and only having to clear one set of passport checks (for the Schengen Zone) instead of two. I'm sure that the schedules/fares will work out better for a few destinations via PHL, resulting in a small but critical trickle of passengers, but for the most part I suspect that the drivers of this flight are local PHL O&D, and Northeast US connections.

WA707atMSP · Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:23 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Didnt they used to serve MEX from JFK or am I “misrememberin?”

AA has wanted to serve JFK-MEX since the 1950s, but has never received authority to do so.

NYC-MEX nonstops were awarded to Eastern in 1957, at the same time AA got Chicago-Mexico City and Western got LAX-MEX. On 24 June 1975, the EA L-1011 flying MEX-JFK was almost pushed into the ground by wind shear; the pilot came within a few feet of crashing, and diverted to EWR. The aircraft behind the EA L-1011 on approach to JFK was an EA 727-225 inbound from MSY, which was not so lucky.

LupineChemist · Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:35 am

Blerg wrote:
People who would be flying between Europe and Mexico via Philadelphia, will they have to check-in their bags in PHL or will they go straight through their final destination?

It would be like any other US connection. Collect bags and re-check right after customs. You just right to go recheck when you would otherwise go left to go landside.

Blerg · Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:51 am

LupineChemist wrote:
Blerg wrote:
People who would be flying between Europe and Mexico via Philadelphia, will they have to check-in their bags in PHL or will they go straight through their final destination?

It would be like any other US connection. Collect bags and re-check right after customs. You just right to go recheck when you would otherwise go left to go landside.

Thought so. That's quite annoying and I can see many Europeans avoiding AA because there is less hassle while connecting at a European airport.

Like someone wrote above, this will be primarily for locals and US connections.

jfklganyc · Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:00 am

That was Eastern 66. Landed near what is now JFK Expwy.

Thank you for info.

Who was the second US carrier on route? Wasnt there a 2/2 rule? Just DL out of JFK? I think TW had JFK MSY MEX thru flight as late as late 90s

OzarkD9S · Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:12 am

jfklganyc wrote:

That was Eastern 66. Landed near what is now JFK Expwy.

Thank you for info.

Who was the second US carrier on route? Wasnt there a 2/2 rule? Just DL out of JFK? I think TW had JFK MSY MEX thru flight as late as late 90s

Pan Am maybe, didn't CO fly EWR-MEX. I think the route NYC(EWR co-terminal status)-MEX was limited to 2 US carriers for a long time.

iyerhari · Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:35 pm

I believe PHL’s upward ascent has started. Any chances AA/LUS may start TLV? PHL may also be a good station for AA to start India maybe potentially? There is significant competition in JFK, ORD from AI and PHL has good Indian catchment community plus AA connections to and from BOS, and several stations. Thoughts?

jfklganyc · Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:09 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

Are you Mexican? how would you know...

Because it's secret information that only mexicans can know, right?

Because white Americans telling Mexicans their feeling are wrongl despite having no personal experience regarding the Mexicans/CBP relationship is the epitome of white privilege...

No offense get this political garbage out of an aviation forum. Most of us come on here to talk about planes and get away from the every day BS

usflyer msp · Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:23 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:

Because it's secret information that only mexicans can know, right?

Because white Americans telling Mexicans their feeling are wrongl despite having no personal experience regarding the Mexicans/CBP relationship is the epitome of white privilege...

No offense get this political garbage out of an aviation forum. Most of us come on here to talk about planes and get away from the every day BS

You'd best just put me on ignore. Airlines/Aircraft manufacturers are a business and unfortunately business and politics really can't be separated from each other...

ahj2000 · Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:14 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Didnt they used to serve MEX from JFK or am I “misrememberin?”

AA has wanted to serve JFK-MEX since the 1950s, but has never received authority to do so.

NYC-MEX nonstops were awarded to Eastern in 1957, at the same time AA got Chicago-Mexico City and Western got LAX-MEX. On 24 June 1975, the EA L-1011 flying MEX-JFK was almost pushed into the ground by wind shear; the pilot came within a few feet of crashing, and diverted to EWR. The aircraft behind the EA L-1011 on approach to JFK was an EA 727-225 inbound from MSY, which was not so lucky.

Huh weird. Interjet also has 3x JFK-MEX. perhaps AA could put their code on those??

United787 · Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:15 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
United787 wrote:
Is anyone else surprised that PHL didn't have a non-stop to Mexico City already? 7th largest metro area in the US with no direct flight to the capital and largest city to our enormous neighboring country.

PHL punches way under its weight as an MSA for O&D traffic. 7th largest MSA and 19th in domestic O&D passenger count - just ahead of DTW.

Why is that? I would understand that if PHL wasn't a hub but being a AA hub. Is there a lot of bleed to EWR and BWI? I can imagine a lot of bleed to the Acela since they are less than a 2 hour train ride from New York, Baltimore and Washington DC.

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