AA decided to squeeze in extra 12 seats into their new B737-Max also reducing the size of the toilet. Both passengers and now even pilots express their frustration with the aircraft configuration. I recently flew with AA on their NG B737-800 and thought the seats were cramped and the toilet was the size of a refrigerator and I am a skinny guy. What are your experiences?

https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk/th ... pilot.html

Growing up camping with my family in RVs, I find a lot of newer aircraft lavs to be smaller than RV bathrooms!

SmithAir747

You'll be cramped in the seats -- American insists it still feels like 31 inches because the seats are thinner.

But they'll feel like heaven if you go to the toilet first.

lol ........

I’m scared to imagine how an similarly configured A321 would look like.

I flew on an AA 738 NG reconfig and I couldn't wait to get off the plane. Was even in the exit row, window. Thank god Alaska is holding off on those torture seats.

I actually felt more comfortable flying on the Cape Air Cessna 402 than I did on the AA 737-800....

ikolkyo wrote:

I’m scared to imagine how an similarly configured A321 would look like.

The same, only a few inches wider....

ikolkyo wrote:

I’m scared to imagine how an similarly configured A321 would look like.

Probably a lot like the dozens of A321s (with dozens more to come) already flying around today at Delta with two more seats than what AA's A321s will have after they're reconfigured, and that isn't counting the 100 new A321neos Delta will begin accepting in 2020 with seven more seats than AA's A321s will have. And then there are the Delta 75Ds fly today that have the same minimum amount of legroom as AA's 737s and A321s will have, and the numerous United aircraft with that same amount of minimum legroom, and not to mention the hundreds of aircraft flying around with multiple U.S. carriers that have tight bathrooms, and on and on.

I continue to find it remarkable how much people continue to complain about this, and in particular how people seem to be fixated on this specific to AA. Cabin densification is an entirely economically rational response to consumers' own behavior - and not just AA, but at essentially every single major U.S. carrier. If customers want more legroom, they will - in virtually all cases - have the opportunity to either pay for it, and/or select a competitor that offers it.

I have been a loyal AA flyer since 1998, making Gold most years. I can honestly say the move to this configuration of the 737-800 has me seriously thinking moving by business to Delta.

Most pilots I know that have flown the 737 and the A32X prefer the Airbus. The cockpit isn't nearly as cramped and sidestick.

Only 8-9 seats less than Alaska and United's 739 fleets, and with one less bathroom.

As I recall, there was only one lav option offered by Boeing when airlines ordered.

kbmiflyer wrote:

I have been a loyal AA flyer since 1998, making Gold most years. I can honestly say the move to this configuration of the 737-800 has me seriously thinking moving by business to Delta.

A quick glance at delta.com will educate you on the fact that Delta advertises seats with 30" pitch in economy on their single aisle planes just like American is re-configuring to. Might have to move your business to another airline!

I refer you to the "square pigs" as seen in an old SciFi movie titled Space Truckers.
That is where this is all headed.
Next up: No seats at all, you have a 9g body harness and stand up the whole flight.
LOL

Buy an MCE or a First seat problem solved.

American sucks and is leading the race to the bottom amongst the Legacies, but they're right when they say it's what consumers want. People will continue to buy cheap tickets, and AA will continue to make money, same as Spirit and F9 and everyone else who people hate yet somehow turn record profits. It's an abusive, codependent relationship and it's become the status quo.

Crazy to think they have 172 seats on this plane that includes 16 first class seats, while “cattle car” Southwest seats 175 in one class on the same aircraft.

Not mentioned in the article: There is no longer an F cabin, just a 6 inch "divider" hanging from the ceiling behind the last row of F. I will avoid this plane for as long as possible.

commavia wrote:

ikolkyo wrote:

I’m scared to imagine how an similarly configured A321 would look like.

If customers want more legroom, they will - in virtually all cases - have the opportunity to either pay for it, and/or select a competitor that offers it.

All true, however you can not buy more room in the toilet and as it is right now many people are not able to turn once inside. If i am skinny and I feel squeezed how is a big(er) person going to use it?

commavia wrote:

ikolkyo wrote:

I’m scared to imagine how an similarly configured A321 would look like.

Probably a lot like the dozens of A321s (with dozens more to come) already flying around today at Delta with two more seats than what AA's A321s will have after they're reconfigured, and that isn't counting the 100 new A321neos Delta will begin accepting in 2020 with seven more seats than AA's A321s will have. And then there are the Delta 75Ds fly today that have the same minimum amount of legroom as AA's 737s and A321s will have, and the numerous United aircraft with that same amount of minimum legroom, and not to mention the hundreds of aircraft flying around with multiple U.S. carriers that have tight bathrooms, and on and on.
[b]
I continue to find it remarkable how much people continue to complain about this, and in particular how people seem to be fixated on this specific to AA. Cabin densification is an entirely economically rational response to consumers' own behavior - and not just AA, but at essentially every single major U.S. carrier. If customers want more legroom, they will - in virtually all cases - have the opportunity to either pay for it, and/or select a competitor that offers it.

[/b]

I wonder the same thing. In the same breath people will complain about how narrow seats are and how expensive it is to fly. Pay more, get more. Flying is a fraction of the cost it was in the regulation era but people insist on acting like they should get an Emirates suite for Spirit prices.

The race to the bottom will continue as long as Joe average wants a ridiculous cheap fare...

commavia wrote:

ikolkyo wrote:

I’m scared to imagine how an similarly configured A321 would look like.

Probably a lot like the dozens of A321s (with dozens more to come) already flying around today at Delta with two more seats than what AA's A321s will have after they're reconfigured, and that isn't counting the 100 new A321neos Delta will begin accepting in 2020 with seven more seats than AA's A321s will have. And then there are the Delta 75Ds fly today that have the same minimum amount of legroom as AA's 737s and A321s will have, and the numerous United aircraft with that same amount of minimum legroom, and not to mention the hundreds of aircraft flying around with multiple U.S. carriers that have tight bathrooms, and on and on.

I continue to find it remarkable how much people continue to complain about this, and in particular how people seem to be fixated on this specific to AA. Cabin densification is an entirely economically rational response to consumers' own behavior - and not just AA, but at essentially every single major U.S. carrier. If customers want more legroom, they will - in virtually all cases - have the opportunity to either pay for it, and/or select a competitor that offers it.

I always find it remarkable how much understanding airlines get for sqeezing in more passengers, not informing them beforehand, making lavatories indecent and get away with it. I guess because passengers are un-united individuals that have limited power each and can be played around with by large profesional organisations. And they already payed the ticket anyway

Airports are behaving in similar fashion too - just look at all those ridiculous charges that Hong Kong and Singapore are imposing on air passengers to fund the building of new runways and terminals! And they continue to pay tax after these are complete! The UK APD is also rising to ridiculous levels.

Coming back to the B737Max - their toilets are no different from those so called SpaceFlex ones on the A32xNeos - we might soon see a headline "Flight xxxx makes emergency landing due to passenger stuck in toilet"....

Yes, air passengers have little power - maybe we should set up an International Air Passengers Association someday!

Is this a problem on the American or Boeing? Do other 737s also have this problem?

Planeyguy wrote:

Is this a problem on the American or Boeing? Do other 737s also have this problem?

I went on one of LOTs new 737 MAX 8s a couple of weeks ago, and the forward lavatory was relatively cramped, but I wouldn't say any more so than the previous generation and only a bit more so than an A320ceo (which is better, but not significantly).

Then again, LOT have fitted some of the most comfortable seats I've ever sat in (economy of course) that are also slimline, so passenger comfort was clearly high on their agenda. RYR might be a different story when their 200s (which are based on the 8) come around!

Obviously this whole densification issue has been discussed before but it's success or failure must surely rely on a myriad (and sometimes mutually exclusive) set of factors.

Competition.If one airline goes 'sardine' the the other doesn't then its obvious what would happen.So is there completion operating or is the route being operated as a monopoly or perhaps a duopoly? Anyone know?
Some examples of competition working.
When BA fitted the 16.9" seats in their 787's there was an outcry and no doubt BA started to see this in seat sales visa vis their competition.At great expense they changed their order for the next batch to the 'widest' seat possible (think armrests) for their 789's.The consumer had spoken.
When Ryanair (this is not about seats) went bananas on size of carry on luggage consumers started to avoid them like the plague.It hit their wallets and suddenly it was changed (overkill) to 2 pieces each!Once again the consumer had spoken.

Not being American I don't know this particular route- is their a ( meaningful) choice?

Capacity question.
The 'putting more seats in' game obviously only works if you fill them.What happened before? Where are all these extra pax coming from? Particularly if everyone is doing it.This I struggle to understand.Or are they doing less flights with greater density?

Drama Queens. These people should fly on JJ's A321 from AEP-GRU to see what feels like to be cramped.
Can't imagine how tight is FrenchBee's A350, with 411 seats or JAL's 773 with 520 seats.
They're complaining for nothing.

However, I didn't understan why pilots are complaning for. Are they oversized? Do they need to change clothes or take a shower in it?
From now, the MAX's longest route takes no more than 3 hours and people can wait to use the toilet - unless they're oversized, as I said before, or they're looking for a spa - mostly of them don't even go to the toilet.
People complain' about everything.

kevin5345179 wrote:

You'll be cramped in the seats -- American insists it still feels like 31 inches because the seats are thinner.

But they'll feel like heaven if you go to the toilet first.

lol ........

And the toilet is already pretty small

American Airlines flight attendants complain about the tiny bathrooms on the 737 MAX

Simple - fly Southwest

mikeyp224 wrote:

kbmiflyer wrote:

I have been a loyal AA flyer since 1998, making Gold most years. I can honestly say the move to this configuration of the 737-800 has me seriously thinking moving by business to Delta.

A quick glance at delta.com will educate you on the fact that Delta advertises seats with 30" pitch in economy on their single aisle planes just like American is re-configuring to. Might have to move your business to another airline!

Maybe United should do the trick.

Dunno about AAL, but I flew the SWA 737-8MAX and thought it was very comfortable. I love the newer Boeing Sky interiors.

sagechan wrote:

Buy an MCE or a First seat problem solved.

Both MCE and First have considerably less legroom on this version also.

Also, it is not just the legroom. It is 12 more people in the waiting area, 12 more people waiting for the tiny bathroom, 12 more people for the FA's to serve, 12 more people to load and unload. 12 more people with bags (I know they have larger bins to help with this). Just a more unpleasant experience.

I miss the MD-80's

sagechan wrote:

Buy an MCE or a First seat problem solved.

First off, there are only so many MCE/First seats to go around. Secondly, as someone who has actually flown it in an exit seat, even those aren't particularly great. The only seats with very ample pitch (including First) are the first row of the main cabin so no, it's not as simple as buy First/MCE in this case.

pdt2f wrote:

commavia wrote:

ikolkyo wrote:

I’m scared to imagine how an similarly configured A321 would look like.

Probably a lot like the dozens of A321s (with dozens more to come) already flying around today at Delta with two more seats than what AA's A321s will have after they're reconfigured, and that isn't counting the 100 new A321neos Delta will begin accepting in 2020 with seven more seats than AA's A321s will have. And then there are the Delta 75Ds fly today that have the same minimum amount of legroom as AA's 737s and A321s will have, and the numerous United aircraft with that same amount of minimum legroom, and not to mention the hundreds of aircraft flying around with multiple U.S. carriers that have tight bathrooms, and on and on.
[b]
I continue to find it remarkable how much people continue to complain about this, and in particular how people seem to be fixated on this specific to AA. Cabin densification is an entirely economically rational response to consumers' own behavior - and not just AA, but at essentially every single major U.S. carrier. If customers want more legroom, they will - in virtually all cases - have the opportunity to either pay for it, and/or select a competitor that offers it.

[/b]

I wonder the same thing. In the same breath people will complain about how narrow seats are and how expensive it is to fly. Pay more, get more. Flying is a fraction of the cost it was in the regulation era but people insist on acting like they should get an Emirates suite for Spirit prices.

The issue is that people aren't getting Spirit prices on American. Furthermore, American appears to be planning to deploy the 7M8 on international routes as a replacement to the 757. Destinations such as POS, BGI, UIO, LIM already either have the 7M8 or will have it. BOG is also a possibility. These aren't low cost, discount bargain basement routes where AA would be justified in sending this type of product. They all have relatively strong business or high end leisure demand (in the case of BGI). There is no excuse for this.

thgsr08 wrote:

Drama Queens. These people should fly on JJ's A321 from AEP-GRU to see what feels like to be cramped.
Can't imagine how tight is FrenchBee's A350, with 411 seats or JAL's 773 with 520 seats.
They're complaining for nothing.

However, I didn't understan why pilots are complaning for. Are they oversized? Do they need to change clothes or take a shower in it?
From now, the MAX's longest route takes no more than 3 hours and people can wait to use the toilet - unless they're oversized, as I said before, or they're looking for a spa - mostly of them don't even go to the toilet.
People complain' about everything.

Why even have a toilet on the plane right? Just have everyone hold it until arrival.

N766UA wrote:

American sucks and is leading the race to the bottom amongst the Legacies, but they're right when they say it's what consumers want. People will continue to buy cheap tickets, and AA will continue to make money, same as Spirit and F9 and everyone else who people hate yet somehow turn record profits. It's an abusive, codependent relationship and it's become the status quo.

TheRedBaron wrote:

The race to the bottom will continue as long as Joe average wants a ridiculous cheap fare...

N766UA & RedBaron, you are both right! But, most passengers will put up with it. They are saying, "I'll fly it if I have to." Translation, "I'll fly it . . ."

So the passengers are complaining about AA's configuration for the B38M, not the aircraft itself. Important distinction.

Brickell305 wrote:

The issue is that people aren't getting Spirit prices on American.

Well of course not, because many customers - including those flying on basic economy fares - still derive value from things on AA that are either unavailable or cost extra money on Spirit.

Brickell305 wrote:

Furthermore, American appears to be planning to deploy the 7M8 on international routes as a replacement to the 757. Destinations such as POS, BGI, UIO, LIM already either have the 7M8 or will have it. BOG is also a possibility. These aren't low cost, discount bargain basement routes where AA would be justified in sending this type of product. They all have relatively strong business or high end leisure demand (in the case of BGI). There is no excuse for this.

AA is free to fly its aircraft wherever it is permitted to do so pursuant to legal and regulatory restriction. It's up to consumers to decide whether the aircraft is appropriate or acceptable in the market. If the answer is no, then AA will adjust accordingly.

In the meantime, is it seriously necessary to rehash this outrage over and over and over?

Planeyguy wrote:

Is this a problem on the American or Boeing? Do other 737s also have this problem?

Flew WN's 3M8 in January and I had no issues with the aft lavs at all...a lot of times, the design is catered to the customer (I don't know if this applies here, but it's the usual thing).

Not discounting that the seating configuration and lavs are tight, or that the lack of proper cabin dividers is an unfortunate choice. But I've seen more AA smear pieces put out by "Inc." lately than anything else. Seems like whoever writes for this publication has a personal axe to grind with AA in general. Very hard for me to take them seriously. None of the pilots I know have had complaints about the MAX.

Can someone post pictures of the cabin and the bathroom

Brickell305 wrote:

thgsr08 wrote:

Drama Queens. These people should fly on JJ's A321 from AEP-GRU to see what feels like to be cramped.
Can't imagine how tight is FrenchBee's A350, with 411 seats or JAL's 773 with 520 seats.
They're complaining for nothing.

However, I didn't understan why pilots are complaning for. Are they oversized? Do they need to change clothes or take a shower in it?
From now, the MAX's longest route takes no more than 3 hours and people can wait to use the toilet - unless they're oversized, as I said before, or they're looking for a spa - mostly of them don't even go to the toilet.
People complain' about everything.

Why even have a toilet on the plane right? Just have everyone hold it until arrival.

Hell Yeah, fair enough!

That message first came around about a month ago, also containing the complaint that the water jet from the tap had been flowing too sharply into the sink in the micro loo. Reportedly, Boeing solved the problem by lowering the water pressure. Nobody is exposed to involuntary moistening all over any more when just washing hands.

Btw, the inner width of that loo is the same as standard dishwashers, fridges or washing mashines.

sagechan wrote:

Buy an MCE or a First seat problem solved.

The Max F seat is their international premium econ seat and offers less pitch than the standard 737 F.

commavia wrote:

Brickell305 wrote:

The issue is that people aren't getting Spirit prices on American.

Well of course not, because many customers - including those flying on basic economy fares - still derive value from things on AA that are either unavailable or cost extra money on Spirit.

Brickell305 wrote:

Furthermore, American appears to be planning to deploy the 7M8 on international routes as a replacement to the 757. Destinations such as POS, BGI, UIO, LIM already either have the 7M8 or will have it. BOG is also a possibility. These aren't low cost, discount bargain basement routes where AA would be justified in sending this type of product. They all have relatively strong business or high end leisure demand (in the case of BGI). There is no excuse for this.

AA is free to fly its aircraft wherever it is permitted to do so pursuant to legal and regulatory restriction. It's up to consumers to decide whether the aircraft is appropriate or acceptable in the market. If the answer is no, then AA will adjust accordingly.

In the meantime, is it seriously necessary to rehash this outrage over and over and over?

On this site, I have learned that yes, unfortunately, it is.

kbmiflyer wrote:

I have been a loyal AA flyer since 1998, making Gold most years. I can honestly say the move to this configuration of the 737-800 has me seriously thinking moving by business to Delta.

Sooner or later it's going to happen with all airlines. More seats = more butts = more revenue.

kbmiflyer wrote:

I have been a loyal AA flyer since 1998, making Gold most years. I can honestly say the move to this configuration of the 737-800 has me seriously thinking moving by business to Delta.

Not to sound like an ass but Gold is nothing with AA.

Aren’t 737 cockpits the same size? Max or NG? Is there such a big difference in configuration?

Passenger wise I can understand, I wouldn’t want to be on one of those 73M’sfor more than maybe an hour max.

It makes me wonder if there's a concerted effort from a party to keep propagating this notion that somehow the AA Max 8 is uniquely terrible. The fact of the matter is that AA's closest competitors have been implementing these types of dense configurations for nearly a decade already. There's nothing uniquely bad about AA's new configuration. In fact, they are late to the party with it.

kbmiflyer wrote:

I have been a loyal AA flyer since 1998, making Gold most years. I can honestly say the move to this configuration of the 737-800 has me seriously thinking moving by business to Delta.

If you've been flying AA because they've been a laggard at reducing pitch below 31", then becoming a free agent again when they start equaling the competition is a logical move. If you're contemplating switching because AA is starting to implement 30" and that's not acceptable - which if you've flown them since 1998 would seem to be the reason - then it would appear very illogical to switch to a carrier that's been leading the charge to 30" pitch and dense cabins.

American's 7M8 has 34" pitch in MCE (was 36" on 738), 37" pitch in F/J (was 40" on 738). I'd pay a bit more if I could for MCE, but there are only 18 seats (3 rows) and the pitch is what regular Y was only a few years ago. AA got a lot of flack when they introduced their A319's several years ago (before the US merger), acknowledged that there was a problem, then did nothing about it. And now they're talking about raising fares because fuel costs are going up (but they never lowered it over the past couple of years when fuel costs were low). The airlines are our main means of intercity travel these days. In the U.S. (and Canada), trains are really not an option, so you're stuck. There needs to be some minimum set of standards as to seat comfort, etc. I think that 30" pitch may result in safety issues as well. Can they evacuate a plane that's so tight in an emergency in 90 seconds? And, for our European friends, BA and LH have gone to 180 seats on an A320 which is really no better. What's the advantage of flying a legacy rather than a ULLC?

Sorry to all those who love to use the argument, that AA and the other airlines are giving the customer what they want. That's a bullspit argument. Just because the customer wants something doesn't mean that a company should provide that. What if customers demand McBurger Box starts selling all burgers with nicotine and all their shakes are laced with weed spray, it doesn't mean that McBurger Box should start selling it.

It use to be that companies took pride in the quality of the goods and services that they would provide, and would refuse to cut the corners of quality to serve a customer. The fact that the legacies are willing to reduce their quality to such a dismal level to appeal to the lowest bucket fare customers is ridiculous.

The way I see it these days, the legacies are equivalent to seeing Lexus or Porsche pushing a $12'000 USD 1.0l economic sub-compact to the most frugal or poorest customer. There are plenty of costumers out there still willing to pay for 32" legroom and a comp bag of chips with free checked bags out there to keep the airlines afloat. And, there are plenty of ULCCs and LCCs out there to appeal to the rest.

Offer a good quality product and service and people will be willing to pay for it. The legacies weren't losing customers to the LCCs because of cost, they lost it due to crap service and corporate greed. Race to the bottom.... sheesh.

I didn't stop flying AA because of seat sizes, I stopped flying them because their quality has turned to crap like UA's.

Now, get the hell off my lawn, you damn kids.

/end old man rant