Willie Walsh thinks the 787 is better suited for Level expansion:

"The 787 more and more we see as a future opportunity in the development of Level".

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-iag-results-level/iag-in-talks-over-new-aircraft-for-low-cost-airline-level-idUKKCN1G718N

Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere, I didn't see it in search results.

Still don't mean they gonna get the 787 tho, that's just Willie Walsh stating he thinks they the best option for Level

That's not what it says in this news article (in Dutch):

https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... boeing-787

Here it says that at the moment the A330-200 is still the better choice for Level over the 787. Although the A330 isn't as fuel-efficient as the 787 this is being compensated by the lower purchase price. However this is no guarantee they'll keep flying the A330. The costs for the 787 are lowering and more 787-qualified pilots become available. Therefor the question rises if in five years the A330 will still be the best choice for Level, or will they switch to the 787 somewhere in the next few years?

Of course, none of this answers the question whether they are assessing, evaluating, and comparing the A330neo, in addition to the B787. One would imagine IAG would prefer the commonality, lower acquisition price, availability, and Y passenger comfort of the A330neo, over the Dreamliner. Of course, who knows? IB operates all-Airbus wide body aircraft, while BA operates more than just a few Dreamliners. IB has ordered the A350-900, replacing the A340-600 fleet, but has NOT ordered the A330neo, because its A330-300 and A330-200 fleet is very new, and yet to be fully delivered (2 final A330-200 pending deliveries very soon, apparently). Its A330 fleet is the higher MTOW 242t model, with enhanced performance, the same frame LEVEL currently operates.

SO, really unknown what LEVEL will do here. If they do decide to select the A330neo, over the Dreamliner, that will likely indicate IB's view on their future A330 replacement, or expansion, as well.

More likely WW is nudging both OEM's for a better deal. 787 pricing has firmed significantly. Both A330 CEO and NEO enjoy high margins and unreleased performance enhancements to protect A350 sales and margins.

Planesmart wrote:

More likely WW is nudging both OEM's for a better deal. 787 pricing has firmed significantly. Both A330 CEO and NEO enjoy high margins and unreleased performance enhancements to protect A350 sales and margins.

Agreed. At that meeting on IAG 2017 accounts, Walsh was bound to be asked questions by the media and by analysts. So he took the opportunity to bargain through a megaphone with the two OEMs. There was no other matter which he could comment on, except perhaps the number of A380s IAG has purchased and ditto on the long range A321. Clearly IAG is in a strong negotiating position, and is not yet ready to do a deal. It could well be using Boeing as a lever against Airbus, which will please the analysists, and the media are always short of comments from the CEO of IAG, so everyone will be happy with Walsh.

If Willie Walsh is singing the praises of the 787 as a fit for LEVEL, the subtext is a big "come and get me" message to Airbus. He's after big discounts and specifically does not mention the A330NEO, which again means that is going to be the target aircraft.

He's done it before. It is absolute typical Willie. If he doesn't get that discount then Boeing is ready and waiting, so Airbus needs to come in with a sharp offer that could even include the A338 for LEVEL's South American ambitions.

Channex757 wrote:

If Willie Walsh is singing the praises of the 787 as a fit for LEVEL, the subtext is a big "come and get me" message to Airbus. He's after big discounts and specifically does not mention the A330NEO, which again means that is going to be the target aircraft.

He's done it before. It is absolute typical Willie. If he doesn't get that discount then Boeing is ready and waiting, so Airbus needs to come in with a sharp offer that could even include the A338 for LEVEL's South American ambitions.

A338?, he might just as well get the 787's

They have 2 A332 currently with 3 more orders. Why would they get another type now? The A330s are here to stay...

RalXWB wrote:

They have 2 A332 currently with 3 more orders. Why would they get another type now? The A330s are here to stay...

I think he was referring to leased and USED A332s being more economic at the moment, even with fuel prices at the USD 650 per tonne level. So that means they should continue to lease A332s for the next two or three years. In another 5 years, there may also be used B787s available at attractive lease rates. Level will have to look carefully then...

I think you might well see a split in the Level brand depending on base of origin .
IE A UK base might have 787s for commonality with BA whilst the Spannish base retain the 330s . After all it’s just a shell business at the moment

PDPsol wrote:

Of course, none of this answers the question whether they are assessing, evaluating, and comparing the A330neo, in addition to the B787. One would imagine IAG would prefer the commonality, lower acquisition price, availability, and Y passenger comfort of the A330neo, over the Dreamliner. Of course, who knows? IB operates all-Airbus wide body aircraft, while BA operates more than just a few Dreamliners. IB has ordered the A350-900, replacing the A340-600 fleet, but has NOT ordered the A330neo, because its A330-300 and A330-200 fleet is very new, and yet to be fully delivered (2 final A330-200 pending deliveries very soon, apparently). Its A330 fleet is the higher MTOW 242t model, with enhanced performance, the same frame LEVEL currently operates.

SO, really unknown what LEVEL will do here. If they do decide to select the A330neo, over the Dreamliner, that will likely indicate IB's view on their future A330 replacement, or expansion, as well.

Nobody said the 350 are to replace the 346, in fact IB has purchased some 346 from lessors clearly meaning they want to operate them till the end of their lives. For airports in South America is the best option.

rutankrd wrote:

I think you might well see a split in the Level brand depending on base of origin .
IE A UK base might have 787s for commonality with BA whilst the Spannish base retain the 330s . After all it’s just a shell business at the moment

I doubt it. They would want level to be run as one entity and not share BA's cost base. The only real commonality you would get with the 787's based in the UK, is that they could be maintained by BA at Cardiff.

Arion640 wrote:

rutankrd wrote:

I think you might well see a split in the Level brand depending on base of origin .
IE A UK base might have 787s for commonality with BA whilst the Spannish base retain the 330s . After all it’s just a shell business at the moment

I doubt it. They would want level to be run as one entity and not share BA's cost base. The only real commonality you would get with the 787's based in the UK, is that they could be maintained by BA at Cardiff.

May I suggest that with UK Air Passenger Duty not being a cost anywhere else, the chance of LEVEL operating from the UK is low.

With Trent 1000's current problem + IAG has no interests in GE
I would see Boeing has to discount as well to lure the purchase

RalXWB wrote:

They have 2 A332 currently with 3 more orders. Why would they get another type now? The A330s are here to stay...

Because in reality having an A330 fleet and 787 fleet isn't really an issue for such a major airline group. They already facilitate crew training on A330s and 787s across the airlines and have maintenance in place on their network for both types. Not to mention that if IAG wanted to make LEVEL operate just 787's, for example, they could fairly easily move 5 A330's elsewhere in the network...

kevin5345179 wrote:

With Trent 1000's current problem + IAG has no interests in GE
I would see Boeing has to discount as well to lure the purchase

Trent 1000 issues are resolved for new deliveries. Whilst BA has had some issues they ordered pretty early anyways, so should have seen favorable pricing on that order, plus they will have already been compensated for such issues already...

Egerton wrote:

Arion640 wrote:

rutankrd wrote:

I think you might well see a split in the Level brand depending on base of origin .
IE A UK base might have 787s for commonality with BA whilst the Spannish base retain the 330s . After all it’s just a shell business at the moment

I doubt it. They would want level to be run as one entity and not share BA's cost base. The only real commonality you would get with the 787's based in the UK, is that they could be maintained by BA at Cardiff.

May I suggest that with UK Air Passenger Duty not being a cost anywhere else, the chance of LEVEL operating from the UK is low.

Agreed. Much more profitable to base aircraft elsewhere in the short term.

rutankrd wrote:

I think you might well see a split in the Level brand depending on base of origin .
IE A UK base might have 787s for commonality with BA whilst the Spannish base retain the 330s . After all it’s just a shell business at the moment

Yes and no. I mean, Level isn't even a legal entity with an AOC. WW was in a rush when Norwegian announced plans for BCN and the quickest posible solution was to source the aircraft, crew and rights from Spanish IB.
The cockpit crew union has always been pro re-opening the BCN base, so there might be some pilots happy now being based in BCN and still part of IB staff.

For ORY, they'll have to keep the operation "as is" for the time being. They might reconfigure the 757s to have Level's two-class cabin but for sure, IAG is not to fire the crew and ditch the Boeings just to replace them with 330s from IB.
As long as Level doesn't fly under its own AOC, you could see French Boeing planes at ORY doing YUL and NYC as "operated by openskies for LEVEL" and one or two A330-200 as "operated by IB for LEVEL" as the French Caribean can be flown by a Spanish company from ORY



EDITED:

Let me edit this post, as I enterd the flylevel.com website and, while the "disclaimer" part of the web is still refered to IB, at the bottom of the page one can clearly read:

© LEVEL is an IAG trademark. Flights sold under the LEVEL name are operated by Iberia or OpenSkies and are subject to their conditions of carriage. This website is owned by IBERIA LINEAS AÉREAS DE ESPAÑA, S.A. OPERADORA, S.U., holder of VAT no. ESA85850394. HQ in Calle Martínez Villergas 49, Madrid, 28027, Spain. Recorded in the Madrid Companies Registry at Volume no. 27301, Folio 79, Sheet M-491912. Holder of Operating Licence no. A.13/94 for the transport of passengers, luggage and goods granted by the Spanish Aviation Security Authority (AESA).

And seems both airlines have documentation regarding Canada Flights:
OpenSkies General Rules and Tariff Canada
Iberia General Rules and Tariff Canada

Kadish wrote:

PDPsol wrote:

Of course, none of this answers the question whether they are assessing, evaluating, and comparing the A330neo, in addition to the B787. One would imagine IAG would prefer the commonality, lower acquisition price, availability, and Y passenger comfort of the A330neo, over the Dreamliner. Of course, who knows? IB operates all-Airbus wide body aircraft, while BA operates more than just a few Dreamliners. IB has ordered the A350-900, replacing the A340-600 fleet, but has NOT ordered the A330neo, because its A330-300 and A330-200 fleet is very new, and yet to be fully delivered (2 final A330-200 pending deliveries very soon, apparently). Its A330 fleet is the higher MTOW 242t model, with enhanced performance, the same frame LEVEL currently operates.

SO, really unknown what LEVEL will do here. If they do decide to select the A330neo, over the Dreamliner, that will likely indicate IB's view on their future A330 replacement, or expansion, as well.

Nobody said the 350 are to replace the 346, in fact IB has purchased some 346 from lessors clearly meaning they want to operate them till the end of their lives. For airports in South America is the best option.

The 346 seems very well suited for IB's "hot and high" operations. Operating paid-off planes for 20+ years seems to be an IAG wide tactic, and works very well for BA. I read that if the A350 performs well where the 346 currently does, that a top-up order is highly probable.

Arion640 wrote:

Egerton wrote:

Arion640 wrote:

I doubt it. They would want level to be run as one entity and not share BA's cost base. The only real commonality you would get with the 787's based in the UK, is that they could be maintained by BA at Cardiff.

May I suggest that with UK Air Passenger Duty not being a cost anywhere else, the chance of LEVEL operating from the UK is low.

Agreed. Much more profitable to base aircraft elsewhere in the short term.

Well if you are meeting an O & D demand then APD is the same for everyone. I believe despite APD we in the UK fly more than most.

Geoff